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4L60E - Rebuild or Replace?

14K views 85 replies 12 participants last post by  Caveman_ZR2  
#1 · (Edited)
Hey, guys. So, my transmission finally gave out the other day. I have no 4th gear and no 1st gear it feels like. It has been shifting hard intermittently for about a year now. The other day, I was cruising at about 60mph and it felt like it downshifted for some reason. After that the RPM's wouldn't drop down at 45mph+ like it always does. At 55mph the RPM's were at ~2200. When I would let off the throttle completely and coast, the RPM's would drop down to almost nothing like I had put it in neutral. Normally they would stay up a little more and kind of slow me down some. When taking off from a stop, it felt like it was taking off in 2nd gear. When I put it in 2nd gear and got a little speed up and then dropped it down into 1st gear, nothing happened. The RPM's didn't change at all. D and OD on the column are exactly the same now. This is what leads me to believe that 4th and 1st gear are toasted.

I also replaced the speed sensor in the transfer case because my friend said that his truck did something similar and that fixed his, but it didn't help.

I want to put a turbo on the truck at some point and I'd like for it to make around 300 whp. That being said, would it be better to get my transmission rebuilt to that extent? Or should I buy a new/rebuilt 4L60E?

How much can a stock 4L60E handle?
 
#46 ·
Scan the vehicle after the install and make sure that the "Load %" will go to 95% or better on the road test. If it does not you may need a new MAF sensor...
 
#47 · (Edited)
Would it be ok to cut this little brace out of here or bend it maybe? My trans cooler needs a little space to fit between that brace and the radiator.

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Edit - 9/20
Ended up not messing with that support at all. I spaced the power steering fluid cooling lines away from the radiator. It still needs adjusting for the grill and the little plastic piece that clips in and sits around the hood latch. The new transmission cooler fits snuggly between the power steering lines and that center support. It's not completely mounted yet, but it's close. I cut the factory transmission cooling lines and added the fittings for the rubber hosing that will be used to bridge the gap between the cooler and the factory lines. I'm going to try to find some bolts or something to plug the holes where the factory transmission lines went into the radiator.

Also got the pinion seal in on the rear diff and the yoke put back on. That should fix that leak.

I'm still trying to hunt down the correct seal for the CV axle up front.

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#49 · (Edited)
Update

Got a lot done to the truck yesterday. The cooler is mounted and all fittings are in place for the hoses. Didn't quite have enough hose to make it work how I wanted. I'll need to buy another 3 feet of it. Ended up cutting the little thin metal piece I was talking about in post #47. If I didn't do that the cooler would've been rubbing on a lot of stuff and I didn't want to have any of that. I used a "fan accessory" mounting kit from NAPA. It's basically 4 glorified zip ties and some foam padding to put between the cooler and the radiator. The guy that rebuilt the transmission and sold me the cooler kit swears by these mounting kits. Here's a picture of it mounted up.
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The transmission and cross member(+transmission mount), transfer case, both front and rear driveshafts and starter are all completely installed and everything is plugged in and tightened down. The mechanic told me at least 5 times to make sure that the torque converter was spinning freely up until the point of bolting it to the flex plate. Everything he said lined up with what @Tranzman was explaining to me earlier in the thread. Looked up the torque specs for everything and made sure to double check all nuts and bolts. Reinstalling the transmission wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be. It was still a challenge since we don't have a lift and the front of the truck was up on ramps, so the angle was off. The back of the motor was angled down and the transmission was sitting level on the the transmission jack, so we had to lift the front of the transmission up to clear the top of the flex plate. We lined up the dowels and slid the transmission on them. The bell housing slid easily all the way flush against its mating surface to the block and oil pan. Having 3 people to get the transmission up and in was a big help. The rest was done with me and 1 other guy.
The rear diff was refilled with fluid yesterday too. Haven't put any transmission fluid in or transfer case fluid. Also replaced the transfer case input shaft seal yesterday before we put it back in. Thanks for the advice @Tranzman.
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Only thing left to do now is wrap up the transmission cooler install and put the front grill and stuff back on, put the exhaust back on, fill everything up with fluids, replace the driver side CV axle seal (which I still am not 100% sure on which seal to buy), do the shifting procedure(s) with the new transmission, and get the readings done for the MAF sensor. I put a new ACDelco MAF sensor on it yesterday too.

If anyone knows the part number for the CV axle seal that goes into the front differential, please let me know what it is.
 
#50 ·
Update

The other night I filled it up with trans fluid and all the other ones I needed to top off. I followed the procedure @Tranzman suggested in post #41 - 4L60E - Rebuild or Replace? | Page 3 | S-10 Forum (s10forum.com) and as I was instructed by the mechanic who did the rebuild. I filled it up with 5.5 quarts of fluid, started it and let it run for 10-15 seconds, shut it off, then added 4.5 more quarts of fluid to it. At this point I'm at 10 quarts of fluid in the transmission + whatever the mechanic added to the torque converter which he claimed wasn't much at all. I've got 2 full quarts left that I could add if needed. I was religiously checking the dipstick while I was filling it up. At this point, I jacked up the rear end so that the rear wheels were off of the ground. The dipstick showed full - cold at this point. I cranked it up and put it through all the gears and made sure that the wheels were doing what they were supposed to. Everything checked out well. Had to tighten up a couple of hose clamps on the new lines for the trans cooler when I noticed them leaking in a couple of places when we were testing it out on the jack stands. Me and my friend noticed a slight clunking/sloshing noise coming from the transmission when it was in park. It wasn't very loud.

Last night I borrowed an Autel scanner tool from my mechanic who rebuilt the trans. I used that to reset the TAP (transmission adaptive pressure). I checked the transmission fluid as it had been sitting there for a while and it still showed full. If anything, it looks like there is TOO much fluid in it somehow. I've checked the transmission fluid before, and I never felt like the dipstick read correctly. At this point, the dipstick showed it to be higher than the full - hot fill mark. I didn't add any fluid back after fixing the leaks. Only a small amount of fluid was lost. So technically, it's got a little less than 10 quarts in it. Which I find strange since most sources have told me 10-14 quarts is what it should take. I fired up the truck and it still made that slight clunking noise sporadically at idle in park near/around the bellhousing area. I backed it out of the garage and gave it a little test drive. Everything seems to work well, but the truck goes into gear roughly and shifts hard from 1st to 2nd. Also, when the torque converter locks out at 45 mph, it's not a smooth drop in RPM's. It's very abrupt and then when I give it some gas while it's locked out, I almost have to floor it to make it come out of lockout and gear down. The truck did all of these things before the transmission went out. I'm not sure what would be causing this or if it just needs time to learn the new transmission. I'm going to talk to the guy who rebuilt the trans about it today and see what he thinks.

Side note: Got the seal replaced for the driver side CV axle, GM part number was 14039577.
 
#52 ·
Are you checking the fluid level running, hot, on level ground? Little confused with your verbiage about it.
The truck was sitting level when I checked it before I drove it last night. I checked it before cranking the motor. It had been sitting for a few days. It looks like it's a little bit fuller than the hot full mark to me. I'll probably mess with it some more tonight. I can check it again and see if driving it last night drew it down some.
 
#58 ·
if you were checking it with the engine off. It's highly likely that the noise was from it sucking air. It was probably 2-3 qts. low.
I usually let it go and let the shift adapts reset before I make any shift complaint adjustments.
 
#59 ·
I was always told you're supposed to run the gear selector through all of the positions then back to park before you check it.
if you were checking it with the engine off. It's highly likely that the noise was from it sucking air. It was probably 2-3 qts. low.
I usually let it go and let the shift adapts reset before I make any shift complaint adjustments.
Thanks guys.

I dropped the scanner back off at the shop after work yesterday and asked him about checking the fluid level and the hard shifting in 1-2 and 2-3. He said the same thing y'all said about how to check the fluid level and that the hard shifting is normal when you put a new transmission in and reset the adaptives. He said that the best way to "break it in" is to drive backroads under light load and that it'll learn quickest this way. He said to kind of go easy on it for the first 500 miles or so.

Last night before I drove it any on the road, I cranked it up and pulled it to a level spot to check the fluid. Sure enough, when running it was low on fluid. I added 2 quarts in it and that looked pretty close. I still thought it needed just a touch more, but it was close enough to drive. So, I drove the truck about 7 miles to the store and got 2 more quarts. The truck did fine while driving. The check engine light did come on while driving, so I had the guy scan it for me and it was an 02 sensor code (bank 2), something about not switching. I can't remember the code. Either way, it wasn't very concerning, and the truck has an intermittent CEL that comes on for running a little lean anyway. The hoses for the trans cooler leaked some fluid while I was driving, and I stopped to see if any of the hose clamps were loose. They seemed fine, but I readjusted them and tightened them back down to make sure. I think I'll get some better clamps sometime soon to help with this. So, the truck has probably closer to 11 quarts in it total at this point. I'll probably be able to drive the truck home from my buddy's house today or tomorrow. Once I get it back, I'll take it over to the shop and have my guy look at it and see if he thinks everything is normal.
 
#60 ·
Update

I've put ~100 miles on the new transmission so far. ~10 miles of it on the highway, the rest on backroads and city driving. It seems to be doing fine so far. With my limited experience working with transmissions, if something is wrong with it, I might now catch it. That being said, I think I'm going to take it over to the shop to the guy who rebuilt it and have him drive it and check the fluid and see what he thinks. No red flags so far for me though.

I hooked my scanner tool up to the truck once I got it home and read the codes again for the Service Engine Soon light. The codes that came up were P1133 (this was the code that the AutoZone guy got when he scanned it for me in the previous post), P0140 and P1153. All of these are O2 sensor codes, so I'm not immediately worried about them, but I've also never had these codes before. I've also never had any of those 3 O2 sensors out before either. Not sure if this is related to the transmission or what, but Everything seems to be fine in spite of this.

Does anyone know why these codes popped up as soon as I got the truck back on the road?

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#61 ·
I would say that because they got disturbed they are acting up. Coincidental I would say. Did you remove the exhaust or cut it? Either way they got bumped around and O2 sensors are sensitive to bumps and vibrations. You would be surprised at how much the suspension and engine/transmission mounts absorb.
All 3 codes point to both upstream sensors...
 
#64 ·
Night before last, I was taking the truck through a brushless car wash, and I turned the truck off while I was sitting there in the wash. I cranked it back up to leave the car wash and the truck went into gear and shifted perfectly smooth. Before I turned it off in the wash, it had been shifting roughly, especially from 1st to 2nd and putting it into any drive gear and reverse. About a year before the transmission completely went out, it started doing exactly what it's doing now. Sometimes it will shift smooth and other times when I turn it on it'll go into gear roughly and shift roughly. Once the truck is turned on, it doesn't go back and forth between shifting smoothly and roughly. If it shifts rough when I crank it up, then it'll shift rough the entire time until it's turned off again. If it's shifting smoothly, then it'll shift smoothly until it's turned off again. And it's not a constant back and forth thing, it may shift smoothly for 3 or 4 times (turning the truck on and off normally over the course of a few days) or it may shift smoothly for a 5-minute drive, get turned off, and then shift rough when I crank it back up. I've read that the throttle position sensor can possibly cause this problem in 4L60E's. I replaced it less than a year ago to try and remedy this problem, but to no avail. I didn't use an ACDelco or an OEM GM sensor though. I may need to try out an OEM sensor and see if that fixes it.

The transmission has the correct amount of fluid in it and when the truck decided to shift smoothly, it felt perfect.

Anyone else have this problem? What should I try next? Any advice is appreciated.
 
#66 ·
I replaced the MAF at the same time that I reinstalled the rebuilt transmission with an ACDelco one. Shouldn't have a problem with the MAF I don't think. No, it has a "cold air" intake. Also, it shifted better after the wash, so I don't think the water had any kind of adverse effect on it.
 
#69 ·
I am purely guessing at this point that the MAF you bought on Amazon was a knockoff if the price was significantly different. The MAF gives load calculation input to the computer to dictate shifting loads as does the TPS. Guess the unscientific test would be duplicate the car-wash episode. I would also make sure your o2 sensor problems are cleared up as well as those readings could be effected by car wash mist being ingested.
 
#77 ·
Update

Got the truck back today from the mechanic. He said he replaced the pressure control solenoid and that fixed the shifting and going into gear issue. He also put my stock intake back on to get rid of the vacuum leaks in that intake that was on the truck. After doing that, the fuel trims still weren't right, so he put my old MAF sensor back on and that fixed the problem. I'm going to see if I can get my money back for that new MAF sensor. All is well now except for 1 minor thing. When we took the transfer case off of the transmission, I didn't notice a gasket, but now that I think about it there was some RTV around that area. Anyway, I didn't RTV is or put a gasket on it, so it's leaking a little bit right there. The mechanic gave me a gasket for it. I'll probably tackle that sometime next week or the one after.

But basically, the job was successful and I'm glad I went about it the way I did. Thank you all for your suggestions and support 👍
 
#78 ·
Update

Had to take the truck back to the shop a few days after my last post. It started doing the hard shifting again. Got the truck back the other day and all is well so far. Had to get a new ECM. Apparently, the circuit that controlled the pressure in the transmission was shorting out or something. The transfer case/transmission gasket is in place now. The aforementioned O2 sensor codes are now gone. Still have a P0171 & a P0174 code, but they've been on and off for years. That'll be my next project on the truck along with replacing the thermostat which I think is stuck open because the truck won't ever get up to around 195 degrees like it normally does. It also takes forever to build up any kind of heat. I bought a new ACDelco one, so hopefully it'll work. Fingers crossed, project 4L60E is wrapped up.
 
#83 ·
I’m going to be switching the rubber lines to braided lines using AN fittings. I’ve never used AN fittings before. I understand how they work and how to do it, but the hardest part for me is figuring out what size AN fittings that I need to buy. I took the brass fitting that was threaded into the transmission cooler that the rubber hose was slid onto with me to Lowe’s this evening and the threads from this brass fitting threaded into a 3/8” female fitting on their sizing chart thing. So the threads are a 3/8” which means I need to get a fitting adapter with 3/8” threads. I’ve looked at some AN size charts and I’m having trouble figuring out which AN size matches the 3/8” thread size of the fitting. The putter diameter of the factory hard lines for the transmission cooling lines look like they’re 3/8”. I’m thinking about using a couple of compression fittings to attach the braided line to the factory hard lines and then continue up to the cooler. Any help would be appreciated.
 
#86 ·
Update

Well, I've been driving the truck daily like I used to with absolutely zero issues since I installed the AN fittings and got rid of the rubber hoses. No leaks and no shifting issues. I promised some pictures of the new lines once I got them installed, so here they are! I really dig the way they look. They were a pain to cut and assemble, but well worth it.

Thanks again to everyone who helped me out with this project.

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