That kind of power is going to be alot on a 700r4 no matter the build, also if you go after a transfer case there are differences the typhoon cases gave 30 spline out put shafts compared to syclone, astros and such that are only 28 spline.

As for the front and rear diff you are on the right track, the propshaft should use u-joints and if you are making that kinda of power contack philntx for safety loops for the shafts.

 

So are you saying that I HAVE to get a Typhoon T-Case, or just pointing out the difference? I can rebuild the case if necessary. It would probably be cheaper than a Typhoon xcase. If the 700R4 does not seem good enough what would you suggest? A TH400? Remember I am going to be carbed so any electronic trannys are out (otherwise I would pick up a 4L80E in a heartbeat.) If the 400 is a better decision, what kind of adapters do I need?

Sorry for all the Q's, but I really wanna go AWD.

Thanks

That kind of power is going to be alot on a 700r4 no matter the build, also if you go after a transfer case there are differences the typhoon cases gave 30 spline out put shafts compared to syclone, astros and such that are only 28 spline.

As for the front and rear diff you are on the right track, the propshaft should use u-joints and if you are making that kinda of power contack philntx for safety loops for the shafts.

 

A 700r-4 can be built to handle that amount of power, but its pricey. A good friend of mine builds trannies for a living and he has built several 700's for the mud racing people around here that push over 1500 HP. BTW, I like your build idea, that will be an awesome truck when you get it built!

 

Thanks,

The dude I talked to told me up front it was gonna be pricey. I told him I could get a 700 for about 300 hundred bucks, and he told me a full rebuild for that kind of horsepower and AWD would be probably between 1200 and 1600 including labor. I don't have a problem spending that much either. He told me this would be competely overhauled down to every last tiny part. He also said that I would not have to worry at all about braking anything as long as I did not have something crazy like slicks, 4000 RPM stall convertor, and a transbrake.

 

i would be more concerned on how much the stock t-case can handle. what have the syty guys been telling you? and considering awd t-cases are not a dime a dozen like 700r4's i woukld build it to make sure the power can be held.

 

the typhoon transfer case is rated to about 650 but if you are hard on it it will brake, george blake on syty sells billet 32 spline input shafts, he also know a lot about 700r4's. They are some of the best to read up on since they know what will and won't work on a 700r4. You could also still run an 80e but will need a transmission controller. A turbo 400 will work but no overdrive kills highway driving.

And that tranny sounds awesome for the price but torque and hard launches leave most 700's in pieces.

also we do not know what you are building this truck for?

 

Sorry for not mentioning the trucks use. It is going to see a lot of strip and the average cruise a couple days a month. Overdrive is highly preferrable but not necessary. I would like to stick with the 700R4 if possible, because the tranny controllers are not cheap and it is just more stuff to work on. However, I don't want to spend close to two grand on a trans and have it grenade after a few launches. The guy at work said it could be built to take what I throw at it, and he has been rebuilding for like 20 years. Oh, this is my first build too, and I want to keep it simple as possible.

Would you recommend an Astro t-case and just upgrade to the billet input shaft? Would that make it strong enough?

 

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=ADD%2D50%2D8500&N=700+115&autoview=sku

I'm doing this in the very near future. I'm going to use a TH350 for mine. I would like to have the overdrive but I don't see that trans holding up to 500 ft lb. Good luck finding any info. I can't even find a pic of V8 Hooker super comps installed on a 4x4(AWD) S10 for reference purposes. I don't see anyone making that kind of HP with the 1 1/2" shorties or manifolds.

 

Like 95xtreme said, the 4L80e would also be a very good choice, but it would require a stand alone CPU to control shifting (about $750-$1000), is considerable longer (new mounts & change driveshaft lengths), and has a 6 bolt mounting flange and a larger output shaft that would require a different transfer case. I'm using the 4L80e in my truck with a NV241 t-case that I could barely keep the bottom of it above the bottom of my frame with a 3" body lift, so it may be harder to fit the larger T-case in you truck also. JMO

 

For a cheap but good set up I would run ls1 brakes they are dual piston brakes on a 12 inch rotor. I have the brackets here for the swap if you are interested.

Also the transfer case is only mounted to the tranny and does not have any cross member holding it up. You will need to rework your tranny mount for the 4l80e since it is a longer transmission. You will need an adapter yes and your rear end should be fine if you go that route. But if you are doing alot of street driving make sure to run a clutch style rear unit, since a locker has a tendency to not take the abuse of cornering to well.

 

Huh,

I thought that the tcase had some external support. I thought I remembered at least a bolt that was on top of the case that was really hard to get to. Does the stock 4x4 case have external help? That must be what I am thinking of. Anyways, do you have the brackets for the front AND back?

I knew that the tranny xmember would need to be moved back for sure, it's not a big deal. Just cut and reweld.

I found some stuff on EBAY tell me what you think:
Tcase- http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Borg...QcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ46104QQihZ022QQitemZ350018859733QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
TCI Trans Controller- http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TCI-...QcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ46104QQihZ015QQitemZ250210488539QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

What about c-clip eliminators?

For a cheap but good set up I would run ls1 brakes they are dual piston brakes on a 12 inch rotor. I have the brackets here for the swap if you are interested.

Also the transfer case is only mounted to the tranny and does not have any cross member holding it up. You will need to rework your tranny mount for the 4l80e since it is a longer transmission. You will need an adapter yes and your rear end should be fine if you go that route. But if you are doing alot of street driving make sure to run a clutch style rear unit, since a locker has a tendency to not take the abuse of cornering to well.

 

Front yes back we are going to be working on.
The tranny controller should work but I am not 100 percent positive, the transfer case will work with a full rebuild, but it is not the strongest one out there. C-clip eliminators are a good safety measure and a good idea.

The 4x4 do not have a brace either from my experiences except on a full size. Have not really looked at the newer 4x4 much though.

 

I don't know if I am gonna go with that controller, but I talked to the guy and he said it was installed but never hooked up- it's like new. It comes with the TCU and harness, so I will need to get a TPS for it to be truly stand alone. Lot's of the SyTy guys seem to prefer the PCS TCU, but the price on this TCI might be really good.

For the transfer case, I will just buy a rebuild kit (comes with seals, bearings, and a chain.) Do the VC's ever go bad, or the planetaries? I was poking around and it looks like I can the Typhoon 32 spline output shafts for a fair price. Should I get them?

Also, do you know anyone besides Superior Gear that makes ring and pinions for the 7.25 front axle? I ask because I have never heard of them. I plan on Richmonds for the back. The c-clip eliminators will probably be from Moser.

How do those front caliper brackets attach? Do you weld it on the knuckle, or do they bolt on? When will a rear setup be ready?

Thanks again.

Front yes back we are going to be working on.
The tranny controller should work but I am not 100 percent positive, the transfer case will work with a full rebuild, but it is not the strongest one out there. C-clip eliminators are a good safety measure and a good idea.

The 4x4 do not have a brace either from my experiences except on a full size. Have not really looked at the newer 4x4 much though.

 

Sounds like its going to be a cool project.

 

Thanks,

I plan to take out the engine this weekend. I will start a project thread hopefully within the next week or two.

 

no you don't have to go with a bravada but you will have a weaker t-case. it has the 28 spline instead of the 32 spline. Even if you rebuild it it will never be as strong. The cases are slightly different to so upgrading is made more difficult. If you check with yards around you, you can normally get a case for 100-150.

I will send you a picture this weekend and a price for the kit.

 

Sounds good,

Thanks.

no you don't have to go with a bravada but you will have a weaker t-case. it has the 28 spline instead of the 32 spline. Even if you rebuild it it will never be as strong. The cases are slightly different to so upgrading is made more difficult. If you check with yards around you, you can normally get a case for 100-150.

I will send you a picture this weekend and a price for the kit.

 

Don't forget you'll need an oil pan for the 4x4 application.

The Astro/Safari van 4x4 is a good place to start looking for the 4472 T/C

The Speedometer and fuel level gauge work through the PCM.

George Blake (on the SYTY forums) has an installation kit for the 4L80 transmission in the Syclones and typhoons. Last I checked, the kit (not including the transmission, was around $1,700.

There are several resources for the 700R4 (Raptor Transmissions, Phoenix Transmissions, etc)

550HP might be pretty radical in a street truck with automatic transmission. You'll probably need a 3,000 stall converter. Make sure you cover your engine specs with your transmission builder so he can get the stall correct for your usage.

 

Thanks,

I got your PM too. This is my first big build and I wanted to go carbed for simplicity (I wanna build my entire motor up from the bare block.) I know about the oil pan, speedo, and fuel gauge. I was planning on getting a guage set from Autometer, they're like $330 with an in dash tach.

If what 95x said is true, I am gonna try and get a Bravada t-case. They won't be much harder to come by.

I saw George Blake's kit a while back and I think I will be picking one up. They seem bullet proof. I talked to my transmission guy a week ago to discuss my build plans, and he seemed to recommend the 4l80e over the 700r4. He said the only thing more expensive about the 80 would be a stand alone conroller. I have seen a few good deals on Ebay for TCIs. I know that the PCS controllers are supposed to be better, but deals aren't as common for them.

I actually looked into both of the places for the 700s you listed about a month ago, when I thought that's what I really wanted. I really wish I could get one just because it would make things so much easier (no adapters or input or output shafts, etc.) However, I am gonna end up really raggin' on this thing between the street and the strip- so I don't want anything to give out. I will go over on the SyTy forums and ask them if they have had any experience with swapping in a 4l80e into a later model truck. I knew it would be pretty tight seeing that my 4l60 does not have a TON of room.

For my torque convertor I was planning on between a 3000 and 3500 stall with lockup, it will be seeing the freeways every once and a while.

Oh, don't you make safety loops for drive shafts?

-Wes

edit: About the emissions testing- I live in Michigan and we have not had one in like 15 years, so I am not worrying about going carbed. Also, your truck is probably one of the coolest things I've seen in my LIFE! Keep up the AWESOME work!

 

were can i find more infromation on AWD V8 swaps

 

There really is no ONE place to find out EVERYTHING you need to know. I believe there should be a sticky, but nobody here has sat down and made information for one. The problem is there are so many options to choose from, like axles, t-case, tranny, etc- and everyone wants to tell you something different. I have been researching this subject for a better part of three months and I still don't know every tiny detail. I would recommend searching AWD V8 on the forums here and going over to SYTY.net and checking things out there. Between the two places, with enough searching and asking questions, you will find out your route.

Personally, I am looking at getting a Borg Warner 4472 transfer case out of a 92- 96 Bravada (because they have 32 spline output shafts vs the 27 spline shafts in the Astro and Safari vans.) It will be behind a fully built 4l80E trans (although you might get away with a 700R4 or 4l60E depending on how mild your engine is.) I am planning on making in the 500 plus horsepower and torque range, so everything needs to be up to spec. Also, I would suggest getting a rebuild kit for the transfer case, which basically comes with new seals and bearings. If you go with the 4l80E you will need to get a new input shaft for the t-case because the stock one is meant for the 700R4/4l60E. You can check out the SYTY forums for that.

If you have any questions shoot me a private message. I know it might seem a little overwhelming, but it is worth it in the end.

Wes

 

i started a awd v8 build a few months ago only thing left i need is a astro front driveshaft i have a cammed 350 th350 combo and i got the th350-s10 t/c adapter from summit canton oil pan and everything lined up like stock..if i was you i would go with a th350 they can be built to hold alot of power and its a bolt in swap

 

Thanks. I was looking into a TH350, but I really would like to have overdrive. Otherwise I would probably go that route.

Wes

 

a company called dynotech makes killer front propshafts for the syty apps (ask me how i know...)
a 700r4 can definitely be built to live behind 550HP in an awd situation.
i'm using raptor's hard part kit that's x-rayed and cryogenically treated; havent broken it since doing the big $ upgrade.
4l80's are ENORMOUS and stupid heavy; you'll lose a few tenths in weight and parasitic losses, but are damn near bulletproof.
the small transfer case will live fine, fyi.
i'm a syclone guy; we go REAL fast thru the oem t-case without issue.

to the fella who mentioned hooker's headers - they have a primary tube outside the frame rail on each side.
if you enjoy turning and unmelted front tires, avoid the hooker setup.

 

Thanks for the help.

It's funny that you mention dynotech, because I was talking to a guy at my work (a performance drivetrain consulting firm) and he said the only people we really get our stuff from is them. He said that their shafts have taken the abuse from everything we throw at it.

I really would like to run a 700r4, and I completely believe you that your transmission is built enough to not be a problem. However, I have heard to many mixed opinions on them. The only thing I know for sure is that if I get a beefed up 4l80e that I will never (or almost) have any problems, no matter what.

For the t-case, I am most likely going to get one out of a 92-96 Bravada. I guess the 91 AWD transfer cases were BW 1372s, and they only came in 27 spline all the way around. The 4472 for the Typhoons and 92-96 Bravada's had the 32 spline outputs (but the Typhoon had a heftier planetary gearset.) I will be getting a rebuild kit that comes with new seals, bearings, and a chain.

I was planning on doing basically what you said for the front axle, except I am going to get a cable so I can shut it off for burnouts.

-Wes

 

oh - you can run the regular 4x4 front axle; just lock the arm into the engaged position.
that's how my syclone is set up now; broke a few front diffs already prior to this one.

 

Wes, I am planing on this same conversion when I return from Iraq, can you hook me up with any and all info you have on this project? I sold my syclone before deploying, and want a V-8 S-10 AWD. prolly gonna do a small block 427
Question can this be done to a original 2 wheel drive truck with 2 wheel drive frame? thanks in advance

SSG James Sanders

 

I am still in the process of getting ready to start. I will type up everything I know tomorrow (I am in college and I've got a whole ton of studying to do for like 3 tests tomorrow.) Some things have changed a little from what was mentioned above, but I have the intentions of beginning the project this summer.

 

the 700 should hold up to it. you arent using a trans brake, and you arent runnign slicks, you will have tire spin before you really break anything, and the weak link would be the axles in the 7.5 rear. a 4l80e is slight overkill. a 350 has a weaker gear train than a 700, and the 4l65e has internals rated near what you want. there is even a newer trans calles a 4l70e used in the trailblazer ss that is rated conservatively to hold up to a 6.0l.

 

Thanks, but I have started to design my project around a 4L80. As I mentioned a little earlier, I believe that a 700 would most likely be okay, but I am a college student that can't afford the time or money to screw anything that big up. As far as the axles, I am not too worried. There are guys on here (like Black X's brother I think) that have made SEVERAL passes with the stock 7.625 rear end. And it is important to remember that they are running power similar to what I plan through that ONE axle. My power will divided 35/65 front to rear via the AWD t-case. So the axles will not see nearly the abuse that RWD sees. I will be rebuilding the front and rear axles any ways though.

 

cool, you rock, cant wait to see the info on the required work to accomplish this, for anyone who has not been in an all wheel drive truck, on a good launch, it ROCKS!! noothing like pulling 1.6 sixty foot times on the street with radials

 

noone has thought about a NV3500? or am i the only one who likes a stick?

i have one in my 2wd, but they make it 4wheel too, xcase and all.

 

noone has thought about a NV3500? or am i the only one who likes a stick?

i have one in my 2wd, but they make it 4wheel too, xcase and all.

AWD unit is clocked different than the 4x4 transfer case so thats a no-go without some serious adapting.

 

Wasnt the transfer case the part that kept blowing on Lingenfelters AWD Sonoma or was it the trans?

 

4l60e trans; they claimed the g-force was causing poor oil circulation, and they fried it. IIRC the transfer case was out of a yukon.

 

Mikey, i thought about a 3500 but I personally would not feel comfortable putting 500ish lb-ft of torque through it on an AWD launch. And as far as the t-case is concerned, I believe that the TT Sonoma was using the newer NP 136 (correct me if I am wrong.) It was using part of the drivetrain from a Denali or something. I am using the BW 4472 proven to hold up to 9's STOCK by the syty guys.

Also there is a GP going on right now for the billet 32 spline input transfer case shaft (allows a 4l80E to bolt right on with an adapter plate.) After the new shaft, the transfer case will be pretty much bullet proof. There are guys running 8's on slicks with that shaft and otherwise stock internals.

And to answer Excaliber's question about my plans:
4472 transfer case from a Bravada (has 32 spline outputs between 92-96 I believe), billet input shaft from george blake on syty.net, built 4l80e trans, possibly gm 8.25" ifs axle from a full size and ford 9" rear with locker, 408 stroker FI from a base 6.0 LQ4 or 9 (ask if you want technical specs,) custom driveshafts and safety loops, maybe corvette brakes (look around syty.net for specifics) if not camaro z28 brakes, c5 z06 wheels, shaved wiper, spare tire rack, and roof rack, flat black paint, one piece roll pan, roll cage, 5 point harness, and that 's basically everything I can think of right now. Currently these are my plans, and they may change slightly a few more times. Sorry I didn't get back to you earlier, I got kind of busy with school.