I would just toss it in, and hope for the best. That is what i did, works fine. If you are going for maximum effort you could play with the advance/retard of the cam, as your timing set will allow you to do that. I think your cam already has 4* of advance ground into it, this helps the low end. Retarding it would help the top end generaly. You would probably need a dyno, or some data from the drag strip to show any real gains/losses in the rpm ranges from advancing/retarding the cam by 4*.

 

This is going to be a great build, im very anxious to see the results. When i installed my old isky cam i just lined the dots up and went with it. You're going to be so surprised what a quality tune will do for the truck. Good to hear you are going with TBIchips, ive heard great things about him and will have him do my next. I wasnt too impressed personally with pcmforless. ALso something to consider would be a 3" exhaust and possibly a set of headers. Im sure you dont want to spend anymore money than you already have, but just something to consider. GOod luck and keep us posted
Joel

 

Well see i am not so much worried about gains as i am making sure the cam is correctly ground ..(i guess thats the right word) and making sure its all good in general. The guys at summit looked at me like a retard when i was buying a timing set and no shims.... but who knows the guy i delt with tonight seemed like he knew it all yet i asked about how a degree wheel mounted on and stuff and he didn't know if it went on the cam or the crank then he was like oh oh it goes on the crank what was i thinking....

those prices and part numbers look right to you on the cloyes timing chain?

i threw that TBI to square flange adapter on a minute ago to see how it fit, it was nuts. Once its finger tight if you feel inside the 2 barrels for the tbi you can't tell where the adapter ends and the intake starts both are perfectly machined...

 

Well when i had this exhaust bent i was getting alot of mixed reviews on the size, i talked to wynjammer and to a couple other places that told me if i wasen't planning on running a cat to go with a good mandrel bent 2.5 exhaust and a high flow muffler, so i did just that went with 2.5 and dynomax ultraflo... so know knows then again at that time i wasen't planning on running 10lbs of boost either, i will try it this was and see where it ends up i only spent 60-70 dollars on the exhaust work on the truck now all alumized mandrel bent so enough money to keep it till i'm sure its a problem but not enough to rip it off once i think its holding me back...

and for headers, I would like to get a set but i think the money would be beter spent going toward a tranny build, which is my next concern...

And i can't wait to get it all in and start playing with it, Its going to take awhile to get a good tune, i plan on getting everything running really good with current boost, 4-5lbs then i'll pick up the 10lbs pulleys and a meth injection kit and start tunning again.... o well by the first sunny days of summer it should be completly done, end result for this engine, running full boost etc etc. I am scheduled to take it out on a road coarse in may and then again in june, so those are my kinda long term goals for getting it all done done with more boost etc.

 

That is the correct partnumber. It should have 3 key ways, and a square and triangle, and dot on the smaller pulley. I can't remember what the top one looks like. Price sounds about right to.

 

Im ordering all the parts for my build, should i go with the 26918-12 springs? im usiung the comp cams 270ahr with 1.6 rockers. so im going to have like .533 lift at the valve. Im thinking it might be worth it to get the beatter ls1 style springs. I alredy ordred the retainers for the other springs, Will summitt take them back if there un open?

 

Well on a side note, I mentioned to you guys that I was looking for shaft mount roller rockers. Something like this.
http://www.cranecams.com/index.php?show=browseParts&lvl=4&prt=2147
Well I finally found some and not worth a grand. So going to go with some comp rollers. Next I found a belt driven timing gear set and was excited for that. Until the price came up, not going for another grand on that either. So I am basically going with a regular build to the heads with p&p.
Update to the engine, the block is out the be decked and then assembly balance.

 

what retainers and locks did you use with the 26918-12 springs?

 

Alright with the 270 cam its designed to make its power up high, i think it was past 6000 if i remember right like 6500 rpm. Also with the .510 exhaust it has and 1.6 ratio rockers thats getting into some pretty aggressive lift for a high rpm setup, i would definetly go with the heavier beehives the 918's. Just to be on the safe side and to have that extra umph to keep everything together combining higher rpm cam and high lift. Also isn't a .500 lift cam at 1.6 .550 lift ? .510 would be like .560? Not positive on that but i've had a couple people at the shops say it should add .050 lift.

Now for the retainers i used 795-16 and CCA-611-16 locks, those are the 10 degree super locks are high strenght etc etc they are awsome, If you haven't check out the picks from my heads take a look i have a pic compairing stock 7 degree to the 10 degree locks and pics showing what they look like installed.

They have titainum Retainers and locks, and they will work on this engine, i was told.... BUT they cost a arm and a leg i think it was going to add over 200 dollars to the cost, and i can't really put a number on what the benifits would be unless your goal is like some crazy high reving motor where the weight is really important.

Also I did some reasearch on the valves guides and everyone should definetly be putting the money into having them replaced when doing all the work on the heads. Its crucial to keeping everything perfectly aligned and making the valve terrain last the longest....

And one more note before my questions... the kid i was talking to with the i think 95-96 imapala ss was dynoed a hair over 340RWHP and he told me on the highway it gets 34-36 MPG. Really smart guy starts telling me how important it is to try and eliminate all friction and telling me all this stuff about bearings he used and crap.

OK onto my question, i tried out these valve covers everything seems like its going to be ok, but they like teeter toter on the mounting shafts for the 3 bolts without the gasket in, i don't have the gasket yet but unless its like a .25 inch thick somethings wrong and probably won't work out. I know the one on my jeep is about a .25 inch think big nasty cork rubber thing about a mile long for the inline.. so hopefully thats the same deal for this.

NOW finaly TOMMAROW is the day, i start this project tommarow moring, ANYONE have any tips hints for taking all this apart or anything to watch out for etc etc, up for any kinda sugestions.... I will be sure to take lots of pics so if anyone wants to see them or needs them to show something or whatever.

 

Good luck man hope you get it together with pics for us.

 

Thanks for the luck i'm going to need everything i can get...

Ok last minute thoughts, after spending some indepth time with the summit catalog I am sensing BS, So there is no timing chain setup that can be used with a balance shaft motor that is adjustable... either with the hex-a-just systems or even more than 3 keyways ?, i mean there is pretty much no chance i am drilling out the cloyes chain to put in shims thats nuts and should be done by a shop.

So does anyone have a adjustable timing chain setup on a balance shaft truck ?

Next,buying pushrods seems like BS to, the listings suck, there ratings are inconsistant and for the most part useless. So when i look through most of them are by whatever engine they are for, how can they ever say what engine they are for seeing how people have there heads machined, decks machined let alone everything else thats a variable. It seems to me its impossible that the stock pushrods could be the right lenght, i have shaved heads, full rollers mounted on a system of machining and studs to a set of heads that were made 6 years after my truck....lol granted that roller rockers make this whole thing more complex seeing how non rollers stock stuff aparently isn't near the science of rollers.... but still. they don't say that....

So now onto the next part, when i'm reading about how to measure for pushrods some say look at where its stiting other say use markers on the rollers so it transfers others said paint....suddenly most of this started making sense though.... when i set the rocker down on its stud and it touches the valve and the pushrod its gotta be within thousandths of what its going to be at final tightening,..so after i keep doing whatever to make sure its in the right spot on the valve then i'm golden... right... or no.. the problem i see is in the lifters, how hard can i press on them before they start to drop, do i just keep turning the engine over to build the presssure up? after i turn the motor over it will no longer be on the heel of the cam on the cylinder i am working on,so when i hand turn it to that spot will i loose pressure on the lifters and get a inaccurate reading?, or am i supposed to just check whatever cylinder ends up on the heel of the cam after i turn it over? Does the engine build pressure on all of them at the same time or will some be weaker when others are stronger? do i just check one cylinder or so i need to check every single one incase i have a basterd that somehow needs another lenght pushrod.... THESE are the questions that are going to leave me bent over a engine for the next 3 days when it could be done in 1/10th the time.

I am going to go bug the machinist tommarow when i goto pick up the adjustable pushrod to measure it, i will let you know what i find out. OR if anyone knows anything i am asking or has some ideas let me know.... the only thing i know for sure is i will know after this weekend....

 

Wow, I don't see how your having so much trouble. People have done this before you and have told you what works. Comp recomended a push rod for me, and they can do it for you, the rockers come with instructions on adjusting your valve train. The timing set is as good as it gets with a balance shaft motor, at least that I could find on short notice. Just install the cam straight up, it already has 4 degrees advance ground into it. So much money on a set of valve covers when a junkyard will give you a set of centerbolt 4.3 first gen covers for free if you pull them yourself.
On another note, I heard my truck run last night on the phone.

 

Thanks for the luck i'm going to need everything i can get...

Ok last minute thoughts, after spending some indepth time with the summit catalog I am sensing BS, So there is no timing chain setup that can be used with a balance shaft motor that is adjustable... either with the hex-a-just systems or even more than 3 keyways ?, i mean there is pretty much no chance i am drilling out the cloyes chain to put in shims thats nuts and should be done by a shop.

So does anyone have a adjustable timing chain setup on a balance shaft truck ?

Next,buying pushrods seems like BS to, the listings suck, there ratings are inconsistant and for the most part useless. So when i look through most of them are by whatever engine they are for, how can they ever say what engine they are for seeing how people have there heads machined, decks machined let alone everything else thats a variable. It seems to me its impossible that the stock pushrods could be the right lenght, i have shaved heads, full rollers mounted on a system of machining and studs to a set of heads that were made 6 years after my truck....lol granted that roller rockers make this whole thing more complex seeing how non rollers stock stuff aparently isn't near the science of rollers.... but still. they don't say that....

So now onto the next part, when i'm reading about how to measure for pushrods some say look at where its stiting other say use markers on the rollers so it transfers others said paint....suddenly most of this started making sense though.... when i set the rocker down on its stud and it touches the valve and the pushrod its gotta be within thousandths of what its going to be at final tightening,..so after i keep doing whatever to make sure its in the right spot on the valve then i'm golden... right... or no.. the problem i see is in the lifters, how hard can i press on them before they start to drop, do i just keep turning the engine over to build the presssure up? after i turn the motor over it will no longer be on the heel of the cam on the cylinder i am working on,so when i hand turn it to that spot will i loose pressure on the lifters and get a inaccurate reading?, or am i supposed to just check whatever cylinder ends up on the heel of the cam after i turn it over? Does the engine build pressure on all of them at the same time or will some be weaker when others are stronger? do i just check one cylinder or so i need to check every single one incase i have a basterd that somehow needs another lenght pushrod.... THESE are the questions that are going to leave me bent over a engine for the next 3 days when it could be done in 1/10th the time.

I am going to go bug the machinist tommarow when i goto pick up the adjustable pushrod to measure it, i will let you know what i find out. OR if anyone knows anything i am asking or has some ideas let me know.... the only thing i know for sure is i will know after this weekend....

LMAO!!! you sound like you don't know what your doing and you should just have a engine builder do it.....

 

lol, i pretty much got it down, but its just kinda hard to get straight answers when you talk to engine builders and race shops and they tell you this indepth stuff and then no one does it that way. Everyone ends up just kinda winging it and not degreeing the cam or checking pushrod lenght or going through the million steps i have been told to take.

When i talked to the shop the guy there told me he would spend 3 days setting up my engine with the cam heads etc if i pulled it out of the truck, he told me to use that as a bearing, if i spent alot less then that, then i wasen't taking the time and effort required for a good build.

The other problem i am having is that i have worked with 1000ths my whole life working for my dads mechnical alignment company, so when i come back and talk to my dad and brother and say they shaved the heads they are different casting numbers, different years, different head gaskets, and change within .100 puts them out of proper alignment but i am going to use a factory pushrod ... i look like a idiot...

Just trying to get all the facts and angles before I put all this money under the hood and have some problem with alignment or wear from not taking the extra time or steps.

 

Have you thought about checking the piston to valve clearance?

 

ya, i plan on checking it out before i start it but it shouldn't be a problem based on what everyone else is getting away with, plus i got a hair thicker head gasket in hopes to lower compression ever so slightly.

Now after talking to the machinist he answered all the question that everyone seems to have dodged or whatever, The lifters are all going to be hard, they will not fall unless you put a retarded amount of force on them, you check one cylinder and they should all match, he said that in his 20 years of building motors he has only had a hand full of custom cam / valve terrain and had stock pushrods and they were the right lenght. He went on to tell me if i don't degree the cam i am putting all my faith into the guy who presses pegs into cams all day long to not have messed up. So he told me degreeing in the cam was essential, i needed to make sure it was within 2 degree's of what it was supposed to at the most he also told me moving the timing gear to differen't key ways wasen't actually 4 degree's timing it was less.

Anyways more updates to come...

 

Alright updates....

long days.....

everything is off and out except the timing cover because i didn't have a working harmonic bal puller.... The cylinders look good, really good actually, the cylinder walls are perfect, after taking a good look at the plugs i know it wasen't running lean at all.

The biggest pain so far... everything nothing has been to easy, its all simple but you have to have it all well thought out to have it go smooth. I have had 2-3 guys working stready on this at the same time and its really comming apart fast, at this point i probably have 10-12 hours in it and i am to the point i am ready to start installing new heads and cam etc etc.

The y pipe is so freaking bad...Putting in all this high flow exhaust, forced induction, high flow heads and bigger valves all of its a joke if i don't get ride of these exhaust manifolds and Ypipe well just the y pipe really. Near the frame it goes down to roughly 1inch pipe, i have never seen anything like it, its like it was in a wreck bent closed and someone hammered it on the side to open it. No kidding it gets down in bends by the frame to less then a inch... So figuring it take a ton of work to put headers and y pipe on but right now it cost me no time... ya i think after looking around i am going to get the TI tech coated edlebrocks with the y pipe for like 350 bucks... doesn't look to bad.

I will post more later...

 

Alright,... Couple problems with the TBI, 2114, vortech combo,

The vortech trucks 96 and up had one knock sensor in the back of the engine, my fine machine has two knock sensors both located toward the bottom of the heads on each side of the engine, two identical sensors.

Well the heads have no provisions for this kind of activity, They instead have two ports up higher ( in the water jacket) that they use for a temp gauge. So if i put the knock sensors in those holes and say all is well then on the drivers side i still have what apears to be a temp sensor in the block that should be in the top holes that i mention before about putting the knock sensors in.

This means...

Putting knock sensors in the higher holes, that are in the water jacket (will they work there, is there any downfall to having them in the higher location on the side of the heads)

Having heads drilled and tapped for either the water sensor, or having both the lower locations drilled and tapped for knock sensors and putting the temp gauge in the higher spot it should be in.

Also i could just drill and tap another spot on the 2114 intake in the water jacket area of it and cut and extend the wires to put the temp sensor in there if i took the spot of the temp gauge with the knock sensor.... So thats where i am, i will be thinking this one out and figuring it out after work tommarow.

On a side note, the cam is in, went in great, timing set is in, everything is lined up. Checked everything out at TDC with a jig setup and a mic and by eye everything lined up going to degree it tommarow once i get the heads on.

The difference in cams was increadible, when you lined them up and looked at them the difference in lobe height and placement was amazing.. really looking forward to seeing how its going to run,.

also i ended up going with the edlebrock tubular headers ceramic coated with the new y pipe and everything...

And last final note,.... The TBI pistons are awsome. I have some deep dish pistons, i was under the impression i had the same pistons as the new trucks, i was wrong, these are low compression pistons with the valve reliefs cut in and after going through a factory chevy manuel they are barley off what a syclones pistons are the highest they could be is the 9.0 to 1 compression ratio but they had 2 other options lower down to 8.5 they could be, now add that piston with the larger firing chamber of the new vortech heads...... Low compression pistons, L35 connecting rods, tunable fuel system with a selection of injectors... this whole boosted TBI thing is starting to look promising.


I will keep you guys up to date...

 

well i had the sensor holes machined into the block on both sides to mount the knock sensors in the correct spot that the factory did. I will plug the higher hole as it was on the old heads and everything is all good.... Only a 20 dollar problem, same day, couple hour service, same machine shop you just can't beat those guys, plus they loaned me tools to measure for the new pushrods...

 

i think your crazy for doing all this on a non 96+ engine, because of the tuning thing. but more power to ya.

hope the sensors clear the exhaust.

did you get your timing cover off without cracking it ? i just took mine off, it cracked. drivers side, the lip that wraps over the seal. i think thats because i still had the power stearing bracket bolted on. if it was off, i could have pried like i did on the pasenger side, and maybe it would not have cracked. i'm bummed about it. but sometimes i get bummed about something, and it ends up working to my advantage.

 

he may be crazy, but at least his fuel system is upgradeable

his timer cover is metal, not plastic like newer engines. it wont crack.

 

Whats it mater what year my engine is if all the injection systems suck and the new fuel injection sucks even more then my current setup and the end result to all the high horsepower projects is some forum of custom ecm holley etc etc. As far as i know after finding dished pistons with lower compression and a knock sensor on each head, metal timing cover i am feeling pretty good about it.

Onto the updates...

Solved the sensor problem as i mentioned, everything looks amazing they did a great job and only had the heads little over 2 hours. The sensors work perfect and everything looks good so far with the new headers.

finished my roughly 3 hr per head cleaning ....Got both heads on, head gaskets and tightening procedures went good, new head bolts went in perfect. Got the old y pipe and cat off, started mounting new headers,

started to check out the pushrod lenght stuff and its crazy off with factory pushrods, Actually the pushrods are so much longer that the push rod lengt checker they gave me at the shop doesn't even put me on the board. I will post pics of what it looks like sitting on the factory pushrods in a half hour or so.

I would have gotten more done tonight but between cleaning, doing a brake job on the girls monte, and people coming over like mad it kept slowing us down... At least the engine is back together besides the rockers etc. I will post a pic of the engine tonight to.

Jess hows all of your stuff going, how much body stuff did you take off, i only took off the grill and took out the radiator, i took out the air con. condenser and lifted it to the side note openening the system to put the cam in through the opening in the front end, worked out good. Now the big thing my cousin (worked in a chevy garage for like 8 years) he said coat the cam in oil like mad as it goes in, you can burn up the cam bearings in secons of starting it said they had mechanics do it a couple times, Also before you run the engine goto GM and get the Zinc aditives for the oil. Did you end up with any problems taking out the dreaded cam retention plate?

 

This might sound dumb but it came to me during class this morning. What spark plugs are you going to use? I always assumed you got the plugs for the newer heads and then gapped them out to whatever the gap is. Is this what your going with or not?

 

i think tr5, tr55, or tr6, thats the stock, cold and coldest NGK race plug, there only a couple bucks so i plan on trying out a couple options once i get the programming consistant. I am running a MSD 6al ignition and either GM blaster coil or the MSD HVC coil... not sure yet.

Also as far as updates i got the correct push rod lenght checker today at summit and am going to be checking it out tommorow and going to get them. I also picked up a LM1 wideband, and i went and had a 2.5 inch pipe bent for between the headers and muffler with the little step for the e brake... lets call it a "high flow cat"...

Tommarow should be where it gets fun, seeing how the engine is 90% back together all i have left is putting timing cover on, intake, tbi , ignition, accesories, blower (now needs a little bit of work seeing how it was made ot bolt to factory exhaust manifolds.) If things go extreemly extreemly well tommarow, it will run, but thats extreemly extreemly good.

 

brock, the s/c bracket will work with the edelbrock headers no problem. the edel's have a thinner flange, but the hardware they supply makes up the difference as a kick back bracket for the alternator also uses the header flange bolts on the #1 cylinder. so dont worry about spacing. this combo worked just fine on my truck

EDIT: i also cut off ther lip of the power steering assembly that wraps around and bolts to the #1 cylinder exhaust manifold bolts, the thickness of that bracket may or may not have to be made up with a washer