Im experiencing the same issue right now that you are experiencing. I changed my timing chain/gears/tensioner out. However my buddy insisted that i did not replace the oil plug/hole as to the new ones would not work or some kinda BS.... Well it worked fine for a day. After that day the chain started slapping on the tensioner making the deisel type noise. Now I have to pull it all apart again , inspect and repair the issue. Needless to say im not speaking to my buddy anymore. I have been told that the best timing chain setup to use is the OEM (GM setup,etc..newly revised oil plug/hole. the difference between the new oil plug/hole and the old is the new one is 40 and the old size is 39... there is a tech bullentin on this somewhere in this forum. Apperently it does make a difference or so im hearing. funny how a little 80 cent dealer piece makes all the world of a difference? Im gonna go back to the dealer parts 2nd time around.
All new parts this time around should cure the issue. We shall see. Let us know how it goes.

 

Is it a certain brand that is going bad? Okay re-read it.. so different deal in both cases.. hmm. Makes me leery about this issue.

 

Exact same thing happened to me. Changed the chain, tensioner, gears..etc 20,000 miles later it sounded like crap and then one day the tensioner self destructed.
I bought my first setup from auto zone.

I have a new set on now from napa. I have only put like 1500 miles on the truck last year though cause i bought a daily. The weird thing is they are the same brand at autozone, napa, orileys....
About the same time last year my neighbor and i did his and put a napa setup in. about 3000 miles later his truck started getting noisy again. we pulled it again and the tensioner was half dug through. We replaced it w/ a dealer part and he hasnt had a problem since. I think cloytes needs to be notified about there parts failing pre-maturely.

 

I sent an email to cloytes since this is now beginning to be more widespread.

 

im about to change my timing chain and tensioner but i have OEM is there gonna be a problem with that or is the problems you guys are experienced only becuase of the aftermarket parts?

 

If you have the orignal timing chain installed since the factory since you got it or as far as you know its the orignal one. The prev. posts were from people installing Cheaper non-OEM(AC-Delco) parts back in because they either 1) Their timing chain went (from Factory) or 2) Their timing chain started making noise etc.

 

Like ive been telling everyone on this forum. I kow everyone likes to save money and dealer parts are very expensive. But if you know you got the right parts from the dealer, OEM (GM/AC-DELCO) is always the way to go. Since day one when i bought my truck back in 2003 with like 75k on it, ive been using OEM AC-DELCO replacement parts when stuff needs to be replaced/repair with the exception of some gaskets. As long as all the parts that are being installed have been prepared for install correctly, installed correctly and torqued to spec. correctly OEM parts should never fail. With that in mind always pre inspect your new parts with your old factory parts to be on the safe side. (Ex: I had to replace my P/S pump and metal feed line assem,along with a couple of rubber hoses that go to the reservoir. Case in Point the Metal feed/return line that gets hooked up to the pump that gets routed down to the gearbox on the frame was bent differently ever so slightly but if i can remember correctly needed to be installed and adjusted correctly before mounting the pump & reinstalling the pulley completely because it kept binding up with the back/side portion of the A/C compressor. But havent had any leaks since then!)

Just make sure your parts are still almost to the teeth manufactured the same way, when i say that i mean its still routed and design the same way, unless its a new designed part that improves a problem but the routing etc stays the same. AC-DELCO "OEM" replacement parts never fail unless installed wrong, again pre inspect parts and dont modify the new ones either! Good Luck!

 

This is the package i have received.. got it from gmparts direct so i assume there are all OEM correct? and i dunno if i ordered the right orifice since there is like 10 in there and they just look like freeze plugs. here is the pic of all i got. costed me like 170 bucks....

got the cam and crank gear, tensioner, orifice?, chain, the timing seal, timing cover gasket.

on the timing chain though it came from a GM box but says Morse on it?

 

This is the package i have received.. got it from gmparts direct so i assume there are all OEM correct? and i dunno if i ordered the right orifice since there is like 10 in there and they just look like freeze plugs. here is the pic of all i got. costed me like 170 bucks....

got the cam and crank gear, tensioner, orifice?, chain, the timing seal, timing cover gasket.

on the timing chain though it came from a GM box but says Morse on it?

Deerman,
All looks Good and they all look like they are OEM GM Parts, and some suppliers sell the .040 air hole Oil gallery plugs in a pack of 10 instead of each. You should be good, its always good to have extra parts only if you know you need to use one or the associated parts that were removed! Good luck!

 

Why not just drill out the old orfice.

 

Cause you could embed metal shavings behind it. not to mention its a good idea to remove it to remove the hardened oil or gunk trapped behind it now.


Heres the reply from Cloyes.
Im off to work ill upload the attachment later but it is the same piece of paper that comes with the kit when the oil plug is actually included. basically passing blame on to gm for the side of the oil restriction hole.



I put new oil passage plugs in both vehicles that failed, I had 190,000 on my truck when i first changed it and the tensioner had only .02in wear on the contacting surface. But after changing the setup 20,000 miles later i had a catastrophic failure that from what i could tell was caused by the material of the tensioner being too soft and embedding itstelf in the timing chain. The timing chain then was no longer able to run straight because of all the material embedded b/t the links when it made a pass over the tensioner it caused the tensioner to snap.
I run mobile 1 full synthetic 5w30 and a K&N oil filter.
Also just fyi i dont know whether the parts stores are loosing them or you quality control is missing them on your packing list but i have changed a hand full of these chains now and it has been my experience that i had to run all over town to find a box with the new oil plug in it. In general stores in town would have 2 boxes and out of 4 or 5 stores only one of the stores would have the oil plug in there box.
Matt K
Aircraft maintenance engineer
Jet Avaition St Louis
From: msenia@cloyes.com
To: ------@hotmail.com
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 13:34:03 -0500
Subject: RE: Cloyes Web Site Contact Form Submission

Thank you for the info but the issue is not the tensioner design it is in the engine design.

I have sent you some info on this issue from GM in an attachment.
Cloyes is the supplier on this timing set to GM and is quite in touch with this engine design fault.
You can send photo for our review to this email
Thank you.

Mike Senia
Product Dept.
Tech Support
Cloyes Gear & Products, Inc.
7800 Ball Road
Fort Smith, Arkansas 72908
479 646 1662 ext 228


From: Judy Fisher
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 1:25 PM
To: Mike Senia; Dave Haley
Cc: Paul Cunningham; Tim Murphy
Subject: FW: Cloyes Web Site Contact Form Submission



From: Web Admin
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 1:24 PM
To: Judy Fisher
Subject: Cloyes Web Site Contact Form Submission

Catagory:
General Feedback
Name:
matt
Email:
-------@hotmail.com
Time Submitted:
04-04-2011 13:23
Sender IP:
75.---.---.---
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Business Type:
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Address:

City:
Collinsville
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Message:
I wanted to inform your company that your timing chain tensioners that go in the 2.2L chevy s10 motors are failing pre-maturely. I have experienced 1 fail in my truck after just 20,000 miles and 1 fail in my neighbors after 3,000 miles.
And on a forum i belong to s10forum.com, there are more of the same experiences going on.
I have pictures if you would like me to email them to you so you may investigate the cause.
Thank you

 

i forgot to replace the orifice am i screwed?

 

I would suggest pulling it back apart and replacing it.

 

ughhh ill jus do it next time around, plus i dont feel like payin my cousin any more to redo it and shit...

i used oem tensioner and chain and what not so oh well.. prolly gonna regret it but whatever..

 

d/l dropbox. http://www.dropbox.com/

free online share ftp deal.

 

Awesome dude, Im Setup!

Here it is.
https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/Public/2.2GM (1).pdf?w=cb357d2c

 

That link tells me I need to log in??

 

Umm maybe try this one.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/25666202/2.2GM (1).pdf

 

Knock on wood, but I used an Advance Auto Parts timing set, I don't think I had the oil orifice piece, as I don't remember changing one out. Either way, I changed it at 90K, (precaution) although my old set looked fine when removed. I now have 149K on my truck, so luckily I haven't had any issues with it.

 

Thanks , That link did work............ For the record My timing chain came from car quest auto parts, but it is indeed a Cloyes timing chain, gears and tensioner. Today i went straight to GM and bought the special oil orifice, along with a new GM timing chain tensioner. wanted to get the gears and chain, but was short on cash. I just got done taking it all apart and putting it back together again. Gonna wait for morning to add antifreexe and fire it up to see if my issue is gone. Overnight should be plenty of time for the gasket sealer to cure.

 

Sorry I haven't been back to visit my thread been putting in many hours...

Purchased new Cloyes timing chain and gears and tensioner from my local parts store (not a chain). Same place I bought the tensioner originally. I've been a mechanic many years, and felt comfortable doing this.

I installed this stuff, everything pre-oiled, and of course during the process the big bolt attaching the sprocket to the cam has to be tightened to 96 lbs-ft.

And it occurred to me that maybe the first time I had held everything still while torqueing it by a wrench on the crank, thereby possibly stressing the chain and the tensioner.

So this time I inserted a pry bar into one of the slots in the cam sprocket, letting it hang into a recess in the block casting. Now while torqueing I only had pressure on sprocket, cam and bolt.

I had also replaced the oiler cup again and took great care in doing so.

My final step before installing the cover was to pull the tensioner shipping pin.

I should have it back running again this weekend and will try to let you guys know of the results.

thanks,

Carl

 

I wouldnt think 95 ft lbs would hurt the chain. being that these trucks put out what like 105 hp and probably 90ft lbs of torque to the wheels, Im just throwing out a ball park number. So i would think that the torque off the crank shaft would be a little greater than what actually meets the road. Not to mention when you factor in it was probably designed to withstand at least 1.5 times to maybe 2 times its maximum torque load.
Anyway good luck man just keep an eye out for noise, and if you hear any dont be afraid to pull the cover back off and take a peak in. I have only put 1,100 miles on my truck last year with no noise as of now but time will tell.

Thanks , That link did work............ For the record My timing chain came from car quest auto parts, but it is indeed a Cloyes timing chain, gears and tensioner. Today i went straight to GM and bought the special oil orifice, along with a new GM timing chain tensioner. wanted to get the gears and chain, but was short on cash. I just got done taking it all apart and putting it back together again. Gonna wait for morning to add antifreexe and fire it up to see if my issue is gone. Overnight should be plenty of time for the gasket sealer to cure.

Yeah everyone seems to sell Cloyes. Im curious as to why some parts stores are a little higher priced and Cloyes claims to sell the dealer the same part as well. Does the dealer get a more accurate to specs part than say autozone? Like maybe they have multiple criteria to consider it a perfect part vs maybe one that has some imperfections maybe autozone or someone that sell is it cheap gets it and the dealer ship shuns those higher quality parts. I dont know im just throwing it out there.

Knock on wood, but I used an Advance Auto Parts timing set, I don't think I had the oil orifice piece, as I don't remember changing one out. Either way, I changed it at 90K, (precaution) although my old set looked fine when removed. I now have 149K on my truck, so luckily I haven't had any issues with it.

Yeah mine had very very little wear when i changed it too but the one that broke was worn horribly after only 20,000 miles. And i wasnt doing anything differently. Running the same oil now for over 150,000 miles now.
And not having the oil orifice is my other gripe with Cloyes if there going to pass the buck over to gm engineering well at least be able to back up that you include it in every set. Cause from what i have seen only a hand full of the sets have it in there. And its not like theres a packing list included with the parts either so if you didnt know it wasnt suppose to be included then how would you know it is missing?

 

All is well so far. No more timing chain slap noise. it seems that the cloyes timing chain tensioner is junk. The actual pre load spring wasnt doing its job after a day or 2 and was on its way out. Good thing I got to it in time. The new tensioner (GM part) is quiet as a ghost. Im gonna take some pics of the actual tensioner that i pulled out to show exactly what it is doing. Like yours extreme, mine was shot. the 2 differences i noticed bewtween the 2 tensioners was the Cloyes used some cheap stamped metal for a spring and the GM part looks like it was thicker and made out of Brass maybe? not for sure but it was gold/copper in color. I can now rest easier knowing that i dont have to worry about that going bad and ruining my motor.

 

it seems that the cloyes timing chain tensioner is junk. The actual pre load spring wasnt doing its job after a day or 2 and was on its way out. Good thing I got to it in time. The new tensioner (GM part) is quiet as a ghost.

Yup, the Cloyes tensioner is junk. The rattle came back real fast. I re-did my truck with the GM tensioner after about a month. (And have since put about 30k miles on the GM tensioner with no issues).

The GM tensioner has a better spring and also the guide blocks seem to me made of a different material. They kinda have a blueish tinge to them, whereas the Cloyes blocks are plain white. I'm not sure what this means exactly, the blocks on my stock tensioner were a reddish colour :dunno:

The Cloyes chain and sprockets seem to be holding up just fine though.

As an aside I remember that while the rest of the timing set was made in US, the Cloyes tensioner was actually made in Taiwan. (I remember this because stuff made in the USA is exempt from duty when we bring it back into Canada, but stuff made elsewhere is not.) Stuff made overseas isn't necessarily poor quality but unfortunately when a company contracts stuff out price is often the prime motivator. IMO these shitty tensioners are a result of that.

 

/\ well spoken. When I rebuild the engine I will make sure to get GM parts. Thanks guys. Anywhere to get OEM stuff for a little cheaper than dealer?

 

i used gmpartsdirect.com

 

the only way to go ....:tup:

 

OEHQ.com is competitive place to buy OEM AC-DELCO & (FORD) Motorcraft parts!

 

Here are the pictures i took of the cloyes timing chain tensioner. The spring lost its tension and the chian was smacking against it. Also on the other side from the spring in one of the pics below, you can clearly see the wear on it after only being in the truck for 2 weeks.

When the spring above lost its tension, it along with the timing chain was smacking around inside the timing chain cover . Like I have said, this was a brand new part, OIL was getting to the timing chain (plenty of it in there once i removed the cover) only 2 days old on the truck when it went bad. Cloyes chain tensioner. Noted for the record. GM's is alot better made.

 

Here are the pictures i took of the cloyes timing chain tensioner. The spring lost its tension and the chian was smacking against it. Also on the other side from the spring in one of the pics below, you can clearly see the wear on it after only being in the truck for 2 weeks.
When the spring above lost its tension, it along with the timing chain was smacking around inside the timing chain cover . Like I have said, this was a brand new part, OIL was getting to the timing chain (plenty of it in there once i removed the cover) only 2 days old on the truck when it went bad. Cloyes chain tensioner. Noted for the record. GM's is alot better made.

And Cloyes wants to pass the blame onto gm engineering. I dont understand and they have not responded to my last email.

I think everyone on the forum w/ a 2.2L should flood this guys email so he has to do something about it. State the facts and keep it civil or they wont want to help.
msenia@cloyes.com

 

I will send them an email for you.


meanwhile im gonna take the old tensioner back to car quest and ask them to refund my money. I know the guy well and sure he will in return send cloyes an email.lol

 

Haha nice see we need to make them stand behind there product and admit to fault where fault is due. Or we can as a large group let them know we are all not going to use there product.

 

I agree, however they also have the bigger pocket book then we do which can buy many nice things, one being a good lawyer. Im sure with a number of NICE complaints, that they might just wanna check into the matter further. Im gonna wait and see what my auto parts store that i bought the tensioner from, says to me tomorrow .

 

Yeah im not talking about taking lawful action. Just showing them that there still failing and maybe they should look into it and review there engineering. And possibly they will change materials.

 

Got mine back together last night, and glad to report, no timing chain noise at all. We'll drive it this week and see how it does.

Seems like a lot of different results from all of you, I'm not certain anything defintitive can be drawn from all these experiences. I am impressed with all the positive comments.

Did I catch that Cloyes makes the OE parts as well?

 

Got mine back together last night, and glad to report, no timing chain noise at all. We'll drive it this week and see how it does.

Seems like a lot of different results from all of you, I'm not certain anything defintitive can be drawn from all these experiences. I am impressed with all the positive comments.

Did I catch that Cloyes makes the OE parts as well?

I'll try to keep the progress posted here.

thanks to all

Carl

 

Got mine back together last night, and glad to report, no timing chain noise at all. We'll drive it this week and see how it does.

Seems like a lot of different results from all of you, I'm not certain anything defintitive can be drawn from all these experiences. I am impressed with all the positive comments.

Did I catch that Cloyes makes the OE parts as well?

I'll try to keep the progress posted here.

thanks to all

Carl

Thats what they claim now i dont understand how if they manufacture all both oem and aftermarket sets, and were having problems with the aftermarket sets and not with sets from gm then something is fishy.

 

Yes Cloyes is the name brand of the timing chain tensioner that went bad in my truck. Sorry to hijack your post, It just irrated me that this can happen and not just with one person but many.Hopefully this mess is behind us.