which v8/trans combo to choose?

Eight433 · Feb 13, 2006

ok so i'm going to do the swap probly next winter, and i wasent going to get the engine quite yet, but i've come across a deal i cant turn down. A guy i work with has 3 caprice classics, one that he drives is an 83 with a 305, then has two cars for parts. One is an early 80's police cruiser with a 350, the other one is a late 80s that he claims has a 4-something (as he put it)

now my question is.... what transmissions came with these old caprices? are they worth swapping into my truck? the police cruiser would be great i'm thinking. he said he quit driving it because the rings started to fail in one of the cylinders. I was planning on running a stock bore 350, but if i get the whole car for 100 bucks (or possibly free!) i could afford to go .030 over.

remember, its going to be a mild budget build... stock heads (or possibly vortec heads) mild cam, and MAYBE some forged internals if i come across some extra cash.... but THAT depends on what transmission is behind the engines.

I thought i wanted to keep a 5 speed, but i dont really want a t5, and i've been scared away from the nv3500 from talk on this forum, so i've decided i'd probly be happier with an auto anyways. however, i really want overdrive, so that detures me from the ever cheap, ever available th350. obviously the 700r4 is probably the best choice (does it come in a vacuum shift model?) but they can be rather pricey. sooooo...... discuss.

Eight433 · Feb 13, 2006

ok so heres what i've found out... the police car i'm sure has a 350. still no idea what transmission it has (th400 is my best guess) the other car however, must be a 305, because from 82-90, it was the biggest non-diesel engine you could get. if its a 3 speed, it could be a th350, if its a 4 speed, its probly a th200, the newer models its possible that its a 700r4, but i think both of these are earlier models. i need to know what i'm looking for when i go look at them though.... anyone have any ideas? is a th200 four speed worth swapping in? i know they arent the hardiest of transmissions, but i would be running probly 300 or less HP...

Eight433 · Feb 13, 2006

almost 40 views and not one comment? come on people!

WYFSYT · Feb 13, 2006

You want the 4 bolt ("4 something") 350 and a turbo 350/400. A 305 is crap, it's a waste of time to entertain putting in a 305. Any motor you're going to get for free or $100 is going to require some TLC, which cost money if you don't do it yourself. Not to be a smart ass, but judging from you "4 something" comment - you may want to pay somebody to do this build for you, or at least get a good how to book from Summit or similar. If you can't afford it - just enjoy what you've got until you can.

Eight433 · Feb 13, 2006

WYFSYT said:
You want the 4 bolt ("4 something") 350 and a turbo 350/400. A 305 is crap, it's a waste of time to entertain putting in a 305. Any motor you're going to get for free or $100 is going to require some TLC, which cost money if you don't do it yourself. Not to be a smart ass, but judging from you "4 something" comment - you may want to pay somebody to do this build for you, or at least get a good how to book from Summit or similar. If you can't afford it - just enjoy what you've got until you can.

oh no no, you've got it all wrong. I would never put a 305 into my truck. thats stupid. what i meant by 4-something is he was telling me it was a 4 hundred and something cubic inch (which is not correct, because they never offered anything bigger than a 350 in any 80's caprice. and even then, it was only the 80 and 81, later than that was a diesel v8.

maybe i left out some info too.

i'm not pulling a junk motor out and swapping it directly into the truck. I'm yanking the motor, building it over the winter, and swapping it in around spring of next year.

so all in all, you misunderstood the comment, "misunderestimated" (thank you president bush, for your wonderful new word, lol) my abilities, and still dident answer any questions about what transmission may be behind these old caprices.

just to clarify, while this is goint to be new to me in way of bottom end engine building, i am very mechanical and have a mechanical background, as well as a certified auto mechanic-turned heavy machinery mechanic father. Skill is not a factor here. i simply need to know if the transmission will be of any use to me.

02KMFDM · Feb 13, 2006

Eight433 said:
almost 40 views and not one comment? come on people!

I am doing a built 00 5.3 with the th350. and dont get a 305 they are poop. stick with auto. I am getting a new built th350 cheaper then a used stock 4l60e tranny!!

Eight433 · Feb 13, 2006

02KMFDM said:
I am doing a built 00 5.3 with the th350. and dont get a 305 they are poop. stick with auto. I am getting a new built th350 cheaper then a used stock 4l60e tranny!!

i know. th350s are cheap as hell. you can buy one right from summit for 650 bucks. however, i want overdrive, because i want to use it for primary summertime transportation and highway travel.

as for the 305, i would, again, not ever consider that. The plan is, and has always been, a 350. I was just stating that is the biggest engine offered in the old caprices, however, the one i'll probably get is an ex cop car, so i know thats a 350. the thing is, i would never put any engine in the truck without rebuilding it first, because i want to do it once and have a reliable truck that will give me many years of service, plus pull a small camper i'm building for the sole purpose of pulling behind this truck (see project thread HERE) so if i can get the entire car for 100 bucks, i'll have the engine, which is at least completely there so i'm not missing anything (even though hardly more than the block will be used, and heads for now if they are in good shape) The engine is probably a fairly beefy one, being a cop car (higher compression pistons/heads i would think) so if all the internals (minus the rings) are in good shape, a good clean up and rebuild outta be sufficient. However, being a cop car, i'll assume the pistons are junk too. i would like to think a cop car would have overdrive for higher top end speed and better gas milage, so what are the possibilities for a 4 speed auto thats mated to a 350?

woody12 · Feb 13, 2006

i have 2 700r4 tranny's for sale but it would probably be expensive to ship them to you.

Eight433 · Feb 14, 2006

alright, i think i finally found out what transmission this police car came with. according to advance auto (www.partsamerica.com) an 86 caprice police package came with a 700r4, and the normal civilian came with a th2004r. I'll find out for sure when i go look at the car, hopefully sometime this week or next. Although, its been sitting collecting weeds (and critters) so i'm not sure if i can get under it to look...

bdazgmc · Feb 14, 2006

your right in the 700 r4 tranny if id doesnt have it its not a cop car leave it alone. As far as being high performance well.... the cam was different compression heads all else was same as any other 5.7 i believe the timming curve was a bit more agressive though. If all you are gonna do is rebuild the motor and put it in your truck the 700 will do you fine wont have ta worry about it but have the tranny gone through as well to make sure its in good shape cause cops are hard on a tranny. While your at it get yourself a heavy duty converter to go in it stalls around 2150 and it will make you come outa the hole better not to mention it needs a good converter anyway

Eight433 · Feb 15, 2006

bdazgmc said:
your right in the 700 r4 tranny if id doesnt have it its not a cop car leave it alone. As far as being high performance well.... the cam was different compression heads all else was same as any other 5.7 i believe the timming curve was a bit more agressive though. If all you are gonna do is rebuild the motor and put it in your truck the 700 will do you fine wont have ta worry about it but have the tranny gone through as well to make sure its in good shape cause cops are hard on a tranny. While your at it get yourself a heavy duty converter to go in it stalls around 2150 and it will make you come outa the hole better not to mention it needs a good converter anyway

:bowdown:finally someone that has the information i want!

I wasent really planning on putting in the transmission without having the clutch plates replaced (probably professionally, since i dont know SHIT about transmissions) Thank you for the info on the stall speed. I know how they work and what not, but have no idea what stall is best on a daily driven truck with the 700r4.

Now continue to spill your knowledge.. .thats right, every last bit of it.
how do i tell for sure if it IS a 700r4 when i go look at it? This guy knows absolutly nothing about cars, so i wont be able to take his word for anything. I'll assume if the shift indicator says OD and it's obviously a true cop car with a 350, then i would conclude its a 700r4. Looking at the transmissions, other than comparing the shape of the pan gasket and the amount of bolts, i would have no idea how to identify it. I'd assume theres a tag on it somewhere? where would i look? any ideas?
if id doesnt have it its not a cop car leave it alone.
from what i've been able to find out, they only came with two possible OD transmissions, the th200 and the 700r4. I have had experience with the th200, and would never think about letting it anywhere near my truck. They are weak power robbing slush boxes in my experience.

oh, and what is different on the cam? higher lift/longer duration i would assume? I was planning on replacing the cam... would i be able to get anywhere close to my 300 horse goal with the cam thats in it? i would LIKE to get 300-350 hp tops, but realisticly, 250-300 is a little more in line.... basically, i just want to give my dad and his 92 firebird formula ws6 a run for its money, although his is a little slow outta the hole with 3.23 gears.

right after we finished the paint job.... ooooooooh shiney......:2far:

Thank you so much :worship:

bdazgmc · Feb 15, 2006

not sure about the specs on the cam but it is bigger by a little bit.Ill get back to ya with a pic of the pan u should see big difference in 200 and 700 easy to tell apart by pan. unless your dad has done some work to the motor or added N.O.S. (spelled not pronounced) you could probably drop it in without rebuilding it and spank him HEHEHE

T Man 383 · Feb 15, 2006

JUICE THAT BITCH!!!

All kidding aside, If you wanna go the cheep route, use a tq converter from a 4.3. It is the same converter that they used in the TPI covettes, and in the 4.3 it was an 1800 stall, in the vette, it had about a 2200 stall. I figure on my 383, it will stall about 2500 by my math

Hotwire · Feb 15, 2006

Check the pan on the tranny, that'll tell you very quickly what it has. Use this guide w/ pan gaskets to tell for sure. Also if you get any tranny parts, I highly recommend buying from here, really good prices, customer service, and shipping.

http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=2&Category_Code=General-Motors

and I wouldn't let any of the grand national owners see you talking about the 200r4 like that. They've proved themselves behind some very potent turbo'd rides.

Eight433 · Feb 17, 2006

so it IS a cop car, apparently it still has a roll bar inside and the squad car numbers in the back. It was actually driven by the father of the guy i'm buying it from when he was on the force. He wants 75 bucks for it

I still havent seen it, but for 75 bucks, i'm just gonna drag er home, lol. gotta finish some other projects and clear out the ole shop before i can rip into it though

then i'm just gonna yank the enging/transmission, and probably the rear end too (just in case

(even though i know it will be too wide... but i may buy different rims in teh future and run a bigger offset to compensate), then give the rest to a scrap yard and hopefully make most of my 75 dollar investment back, haha.

now i just gotta talk to my cousin and see if i can bribe him with a case of beer to go drag it home with his truck/trailer for me

ninjaboy · Feb 17, 2006

You need to do some more research man, the 200-4R trannies are stronger than 700R4's.. They can be made to stand up to damn near anything. Dont shrug your shoulders at a 200-4R, an excellent trans.

Eight433 · Feb 23, 2006

well i guess this is the end of the thread, as i drug it home last night. 88 caprice cop car, 350 4bbl, 700r4.

oh, and the other car that he said was a "four something" was a 4.3 v6

Eight433 · Feb 24, 2006

that picture does not belong there! damn cardomain! it shows up as the car on the original source.....

wainemaine · Feb 27, 2006

the guy talking bout the 200R4 being just as strong was partly right, but in 86 he was wrong , after 87 they did a lot to the 200R4 and it got tough, theres a lot you can do in your garage like corvette or fairbanks servo and a shift kit that makes it as stout if not more than a 700R4.besides a mega built 200R4 costs less than a mega built 700R4, and the 200R4 is an exact drop in for a T350,( same length no shortening the driveshaft), better not let the grand national guys with 700 HP hear you blasting the 200R4. Besides the 200R4 is cheaper used because it hasn't caught on like the 700R4 prolly cause its confused with the T200 which was crap.Theres a guy selling 200R4's rebuilt to handle 500 HP all over the internet and its 900.00 with no core charge, free delivery, and a free 2000 RPM TQ. I haven't seen any 500HP 700R4s anywhere near that cheap.and because GM used chevy 350s in almost everything theres a lot of dual pattern 200R4s that have both chevy and bopc, bolt patterns

superunknownmoto · Feb 27, 2006

wainemaine said:
the guy talking bout the 200R4 being just as strong was partly right, but in 86 he was wrong , after 87 they did a lot to the 200R4 and it got tough, theres a lot you can do in your garage like corvette or fairbanks servo and a shift kit that makes it as stout if not more than a 700R4.besides a mega built 200R4 costs less than a mega built 700R4, and the 200R4 is an exact drop in for a T350,( same length no shortening the driveshaft), better not let the grand national guys with 700 HP hear you blasting the 200R4. Besides the 200R4 is cheaper used because it hasn't caught on like the 700R4 prolly cause its confused with the T200 which was crap.Theres a guy selling 200R4's rebuilt to handle 500 HP all over the internet and its 900.00 with no core charge, free delivery, and a free 2000 RPM TQ. I haven't seen any 500HP 700R4s anywhere near that cheap.and because GM used chevy 350s in almost everything theres a lot of dual pattern 200R4s that have both chevy and bopc, bolt patterns

Kind of off-topic, but you are saying I can have an OD tranny that will drop right in place of my TH350, with a 2000 stall delivered to my door for only $900 and it will stand up to 500 HP? Post the link, please.

Eight433 · Feb 28, 2006

i could see the 2004r building nicely... the one we had was an early 80s model though, and it was kinda garbage. I would like to think that being a cop car, they would have chose the strongest STOCK transmission in thier line up.

On a side note, i took off one of the front wheels, and GOD DAMN them are some big brakes! i wish i could use some of that stuff :/ i'm gonna strip everything i think i might possibly be able to sell or use before i give it to the scrap yard (front/rear sway bar, springs, tilt steering column, anything else i can think of...)

Eight433 · Apr 19, 2006

Update time! Saturday i yanked the engine/transmission

yup... shes a beast.

so i paid 100 bucks for the car, yanked out the engine/transmission, and pulled the car to the nearest scrap yard... they pay 120 bucks a ton for iron, and the car STILL weighed 2950 lbs. i had a couple hundred pounds of scrap in the car, but still...... they gave me 180 bucks! i actually MADE MONEY by getting this 350/700r4 combo! that made my day... hell.... it made my whole week!

bdazgmc · Apr 19, 2006

congrats bubba your on your way

SweetS10V8 · Apr 19, 2006

Eight433 said:
so i paid 100 bucks for the car, yanked out the engine/transmission, and pulled the car to the nearest scrap yard... they gave me 180 bucks! i actually MADE MONEY by getting this 350/700r4 combo!

Are you sure you didnt buy this at the outlet mall, thats a good deal!! I hated that place, Ive been drug there many times...

Eight433 · Apr 19, 2006

SweetS10V8 said:
Are you sure you didnt buy this at the outlet mall, thats a good deal!! I hated that place, Ive been drug there many times...

that, is in fact, HOW i know it dident come from the outlet mall....

i live just over a mile away from that place. i hate it... and i hate all the canadian tour busses that come in...... and the busses filled with asians..... and the ones filled with indian people.... and..... well, i could go on for days...

half of them cant even speak english, and NONE of them can drive for shit. :rant:

which v8/trans combo to choose?

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