machine work on Vortech heads need some pointers

98 SS · Dec 10, 2005

I have gone round and round on the phone with crane, comp, summit, arp, arrowspeed, and the shop that did my heads.......its a headache

JDB · Dec 10, 2005

Those studs have worked great for me. Once they're installed, the stud was flush with the adjuster nut. So just to be on the safe side, I did end up putting a grade 8, 10mm washer under them just to get the adjusting nut threaded all the way on the stud.

brock1949 · Dec 10, 2005

hmm, Well so far i'm not anoyed by the whole problem yet so i keep hammering along. Thankfully everyone i have talked to has been nice while being optimistic in proving me wrong that there studs are the perfect solution and there can't be anyway they blew it. when i got done talking to the R&D guy and the Tech support Guy at the same time one of them ask me if i am a machinist, When i told them a network engineer i got a solid 15-30 second of silence....

lol

Here is my concern if its to low and you put a washer on it doesn't that affect the lift on the valve and the clerance on the pushrod ? so doesn't that mean in theory if its sitting there wrong you could bend a push rod and open a valve past what you want it to causing possible clearance issues.

And then on the same note, by putting a washer under it doesn't that cause it to lift the lifter up and create less lift? I guess the only thing i am missing on this whole theory is if when you put the washer under the stud it moves more thread out the rocker must stay still, ... meaning there is somthing i am missing when i am going through this in my head... (this is a pain without the stuff infront of me)

JDB · Dec 10, 2005

The washer will not affect the height of the rocker because it's adjustable. As much as it cost me to get those studs, I sometimes wonder if it would be better to just have the heads drilled and tapped. And then be done with the whole conversion stud thing.

brock1949 · Dec 10, 2005

ya, and just to top it off for ya, the rep from crane said those were the same stud as what references back in ARP to 60 v6 studs that summit has for $44 dollars for the entire set as aposed to the $150 dollars from crane.

I am interested to hear what crane has to say about all this. I mean if all this time and effort leads to them and ARP maybe producing the correct bolt or coming up with a better solution... then it was worth all my time. Or if they give me a free set of roller rockers... lol

see my machine shop told me 35-40 to drill and tap for 7/16ths and then 30-40 for high quality 7/16 to 3/8 1.75 studs. But screw it i'm keeping on this till its done, either i am going to have crane saying yes just screw in the studs and run it or no we blew it here is what to do, they assured me that if those weren't the right studs he would have a solution for me.

brock1949 · Dec 10, 2005

JDB tell me more about these valves of yours.... Should i goto the bigger valves on a 2.02 and 1.6 or do you think i will have problems with clearance on a stock bottom end and 1.52 rockers. Or am i clear to run those valves with even a 1.6 rockers on say a 260 or 266 comp cam. what is the undercut part you mention in your sig.?

Also If i stick with stock size valves and run the 260 or 266 cam should i run 1.5 or 1.6 ratio rockers.

Thanks !

98 SS · Dec 11, 2005

you wont have clearance problems with 2.02 1.65's 260 ahr, and 1.6 comp pro mags

Jess · Dec 11, 2005

well, brock. i gotta hand it to ya. you are really stiring the pot on this. and thats GOOD. vortec heads are among the most popular heads there are. you would think that the companies would be on top of it. but i seems they are not. wtf is wrong with them. somebody is dropping the ball on this one.

i am doing the same thing you are. but i'm in no hurry. so i'm going to see how this pans out.

GOOD LUCK

JDB · Dec 11, 2005

Piston to valve clearance starts to get tight with oversized valves and cam, but I've had now problems with it. If it were me, I'd stay with the 1.52 rockers if you do oversized valves. 1.6 if you keep the stock sized valves. But, it looks like 98 ss is getting away with the 1.6 and bigger valves. I'm betting the piston-to-valve clearance is getting tight with that setup?

Undercut means that the stem right underneath the valve face is cut down to allow for more airflow around the stem.

98 SS · Dec 11, 2005

no problems on assembly, Hoping to hear about it running in a week or two. Weather stopped it from going up to tj's

brock1949 · Dec 12, 2005

So givin the option would you run 1.6 rockers and normal size valves or 1.52 rockers and bigger valves.

What do you guys think is going to be the best running setup ? I don't think i have the back bone to risk having to mess with bottom end running big valves and 1.6's.

And as far as going after this vortech + stud + crane/ARP problem your 100% right its BS, there are some of the most used, most common heads and there a kinda poor options for almost 4-5 years of heads. Then when i call in and have a series of people almost laugh at me when i say i DON'T think there 60 V6 studs are the right ones or that good of a solution.

So tommarow hopefully the R&D guy and the Tech line guy call me back and tell me where there at on this project.

rat · Dec 12, 2005

If you aren't really working over the heads i would not go with 1.6 rockers. The vortec heads max out flow wise at around .5" of lift on the intake side. Going to more actualy hurts flow. I think the reason for more lift not giving more flow might be the shrouding that happens as the valve is lifted more? Bigger valves it seems to me would not help this problem.

I would consider 1.6 rockers on the exhaust, as the exhaust still seems to be gaining flow as lift is increased. A little more duration on the exhaust usualy doesn't hurt either.

brock1949 · Dec 12, 2005

so buy 1.6 ratio for just exhaust ? and 1.5's for intake.

rat · Dec 12, 2005

Not really worth the cost in my opinion, they don't sell spit 1.5/1.6 rocker packages that i know of in 12 packs, so probably just stick with 1.5 ratio rockers.

brock1949 · Dec 12, 2005

Or should i have a larger exhaust valve put in only? and run 1.52 ratio rockers on both?

The machinst claims his bowlhog cuts into the chamber and there isn't any port work required. And he took a pair of inside calipers and showed me where it was kinda bottle necked down close to the valves and like a inch away it opens back up again.

Jess · Dec 12, 2005

brock1949 said:
The machinst claims his bowlhog cuts into the chamber and there isn't any port work required. And he took a pair of inside calipers and showed me where it was kinda bottle necked down close to the valves and like a inch away it opens back up again.

you sure you have that right ? the chambers look to need little work. the ports do need some work.
and all the head links i posted say the same.

me. i'm going to keep the stock size intake valve. but get the largest exhaust valve that will fit. this is when i get to this, next year perhaps.

brock1949 · Dec 12, 2005

See thats what i was thinking, I might do that get the 2.02 exhaust valve and leave the stock 1.94 intake valve. Thats a cheap setup to, only 30 dollars to have the machine work done and like 30-40 dollars in valves.

Jess · Dec 12, 2005

uh, 2.02 valves won't fit in the exhaust side. maybe a 1.65 or 1.70 seems more like it.

and i would find out just what "bowlhoging" means to those guys. cause just hogging the ports can do more harm than good, so the experts say.

brock1949 · Dec 12, 2005

Lol, wow i didn't even catch that i did that, i wanted to say 1.6's i was thinking 1.6's and 2.02's if i did both and some reason i wrote 2.02.

Also i'm not sure if i am using the correct terms for the chamber / port stuff. The area the machinist showed me was right above the valve its like a wide open tunnel till it hits a inch away from the valve and then it kinda molds in toward the valve quite a bit really, he was saying his tool would take that out leaving the entire "tunnel" from the vavle back pretty much straight same size.

Who knows.. Originaly i said i was just going exhaust vavle i planned on doing a 1.6 but some people are saying 1.65's fit so ehh i dunno. Looking for more recommendations there.

As of right now i'm thinking i will run manley stainless stree flo valves, stock 1.94 intake and have it bowl hogged to 1.6 or 1.65 on the exhaust side. Then i will probably run a 260-266 comp cam (SLIGHT SLIGHT possibility of a crane cam) With 1.52 crane aluminum rockers on whatever method of mounting them crane comes up with or just drilling them and tapping them.

brock1949 · Dec 12, 2005

Well looks like cam and most likley springs have been selected, I just won Kevins auction for the cam and springs for 200 bucks, figured what the heck its like 125-150 bucks off buying it at summit and would be helping someone out.

260AHR 56-440-8 Cam
982-12 Springs Whats everyones feelings on these, summit has them rated at
322 in/lb they are the recommended lower spring option for the cam.

My only problem with this whole deal... kevsxtreme02 on this forum is who is selling them and he hasen't responded to a single post, email, or im since he posted the setup for sale...just wondering whats going on with that?, anyone know him ?

So now i know the cam at least and probably springs unless i get dumb and still go with beehives....

machine work on Vortech heads need some pointers

98 SS

JDB

brock1949

JDB

brock1949

brock1949

98 SS

Jess

JDB

98 SS

brock1949

rat

brock1949

rat

brock1949

Jess

brock1949

Jess

brock1949

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