[rhenry01]

So why do we want an intercooler on a turbo system that is only gonna put out 7psi over ambient? I have an idea but I'm gonna wait to see what everyone else has to say. If you want to ground you reply in reality and you want to talk pressure-temperature-volume go refresh you charles' law knowledge.

This is a discussion, not a whore thread. Stay on topic! Thanks in advance!

 

[VetteS10]

Intercooler helps maintain constant temp. and least likely to overheat a turbo system. It's ideal to have at high boosts. At low boost its not really needed.

 

[rhenry01]

Right.....Vette! We could make up for the loss of charge desity due to heat by upping the boost level. This would give you the same mass of air in the intake charge......And the heat of compression is not that great at 7psi....so what are our options??

 

[02REDXBLAZE]

Right.....Vette! We could make up for the loss of charge desity due to heat by upping the boost level. This would give you the same mass of air in the intake charge......And the heat of compression is not that great at 7psi....so what are our options??

Yeah but rick when you up the boost to make up for loss of ACD you raise the intake temp. The more you compress air the hotter it gets..

 

[rhenry01]

But red...the little you raise the temp due to compression is insignificant! I think that the point of entry into the system for most of the heat is the turbo housing. So what about a water cooled turbo?

 

[02REDXBLAZE]

Water has a lower coeffecient of heat than oil does. Water could also lead to steam pockets within the turbo housing. The oil acts to cool the turbo as well as lubricate the impeller bearings. I beieve that the Intake charge temp goes up in the neighborhood of 10-12 degrees for every pound of boost you run.....It sucks but thats physics...

 

[VetteS10]

A water cooled turbo can work but you need to have a mix not straight water of course... unfortunely, due to the high temps that turbos get, you can only run oil to cool the charger down, plus it maintains all parts to be lubed. Messing around with the cooling properties won't get ya that far, only into more problems. Current today's systems are so streamlined, its better much done for any more improvement. Just besides newer and space age materials.

If a water cooled unit was easy to do, it would be already br invented by now. Turbos been perfected about the early 60's for automotive use, and haven't changed at all in design. Just about the late 70's, intercoolers were just started to get recongized as a helper for the turbo system.

If your objective is to run about 7 to 10psi, intercooler is not needed. But again it does help to lower the compression temp though, meaning gain extra couple of more ponies. Thing to take in consideration is, what platform you planning to put it on.

4-banger, or V6, then you can decide on other add-ons for the system.

 

[mtl_hed]

On the subject of intake charge cooling:

Alchohol injection is a VERY effective meathod if used correctly. And thats a big if. It will bring the charge temp down to near ambient.

Lower the intake charge without lowering throttle response, adding lag, or signifigantly lowering pressures. Pretty much all positive.

This has been proven time and time again on many cars, esp turbo regals and GN's. I've seen GN's that go to 20+ psi of boost on stock internals without detonation. Pretty impressive.

 

[02REDXBLAZE]

Alcohol Injection is very nice but you wanna run that on the street...No thanks. Yeah the money is nuts for most intercoolers but if im going to run a turbo or a S/C it's the only way to go no matter what the boost level...Safer, more power. Another alternative is an aftercooler for a S/C setup. Not quite as exspensive but accomplish the same thing. The nice thing about a S/C is there is less heating of the intake Charge. Thats why most blowers run an aftercooler and not an intercooler...

 

[rhenry01]

I'm just running all the possabilities through my head right now. I an leaning toward a 2.2L and grabbing a mitsubishi type variable geometry turbo. I was wondering about the intercooler because it may determine the level of boost (and therefore the compression ratio.) I think you all are correct that the intercooler is a necessary evil in a system that is going to run a turbo at all because of the heating of the charge from leeching the heat of the exhaust through the turbo. Volvo made a water cooled turbo with an electric water pump, but it also connected to the oil system to lube the bearings. It wasn't very popular because of all the extra equipment that was necessary to ensure reliability and protect from water pressure loss.

So, let's change the subject a bit since we agree on the above (for the most part.) Which platform would you select for a turbo application of the S-10? I want a daily driver that can kick some ass when called upon. Here are my thoughts. A 2.2L, 8.0:1 CR, approximately 18 psi boost, intercooled, that can rev freely into the 6,500-7,000 rpm range. I'm thinking that 250hp is very obtainable and streetable. I aslo think that the 2.2 will easier to plumb and save weight. Of course the engine would have to be balanced, bluprinting is highly advisable, significant cyl head work would be necessary, cam selection is critical. Geeze...this may be more trouble than I first thought!

Let's hear your thoughts!

 

[02REDXBLAZE]

Rick my boy if your looking to shell out huge amounts of cash..are willing to fab half the shiiit you'll need, not to mention a motor swap..Go for it....Be different I say...Personally, if it was me.....Mild rebuild on the 4.3. You could stay with stock comp ratio. A mild valve job on the factory heads. ATI procharger with 7 lbs of boost. NO LAG, NO Winding it to the moon to make power, no worry about cam choices and intercoolers...Net result...280 - 300 horsepower Reliably, everyday without ever puttin the motor under half the stress that that little 4 is going to have to endure.....Do you realize what you have to do to run 18 pounds of boost reliably......Boost controller, fuel controller....Can you say F&F by the time your done..No offense meant bud..

 

[mtl_hed]

02REDBLAZE is right. IT would be LOADS cheaper to do it with a 4.3L

With the ATI Procharger kits, and a 10psi pulley on stock internals you could easily hit 300+ RWHP.

Cost is less. Easier to do. No lag. Find me a negative and I'll tell you to be different. As a matter of fact if you are willing to do a motor swap yourself, just go for a smallblock. You'll start out with about the same HP and have loads more potential, all while maintaining streetability.

 

[s10rz350]

306.05 HP at the wheels at 10psi (thats over 350hp at the crank) V8 power out of a reliable V6 setup=yumm.. I dont have any credit cards and I'm thinking about getting one just to buy the Mach Performance kit.. LOL, Id be a dumbass to do that, but I'm so tempted.

 

[rhenry01]

Yea... I think a turbo is out. I think it's just a bad move as far as the cash goes. I was thinking that it may be a fun build up, but I really don't want to take a very streetable engine and put it in an pickup platform. A S/Ced v-6 sounds cheaper and easier! Oh well, I was just thinking out loud.....thanks for all the input.

 

[s10]

Reasons why you want an intercooler are because colder intake temp is more dense and contains more oxygen making more power, not to mention you a cooler intake charge is much more stable than a hot intake charge. With an intercooler you can run more boost, higher compression, run lower octane fuel and run more timing advance.