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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,
I'm a newbie here. I'm hoping to learn how the various 2.2 turbo kits [or soon to be kits] handle the timing and fuel issues. I'm also wondering how much add'l air the stock injectors power will handle. Anyone have links to the manufacturers? Anyone done a home brew turbo install?
Thanks in advance.
Dave
'95 short bed
15K on a home rebuilt 2.2
 

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Mines a kit that was not a kit. Well its part of many vehicles and a kit to create my own monster. Look at the dynos the only managment I have is a FMU unit. Everything else is controlled by the stock ECU. Ive got plenty of power from the 2.2 already and Im sure itll only take a little bit to make much much more. A bigger turbo on my part and bigger injectors and say 10 pounds of boost and Im sure ill be making well into the 220's or more. Maybe 250 if its all setup and created in perfect harmony if ya know what I mean.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
GoofyGuy,

I've read most of the recent turbo threads. I realize yours wasn't a kit. Good job, btw. I wondered what you did for fuel managment, and timing. Interesting that you're running the stock timing curve. I'm no expert, but I would bet that a slower curve and less total would allow for even nicer numbers. I'm surpised that the stock injectors have enough to get by too. I suppose we'll learn more as the various kits get out there. I'm a dyi guy, and I'd do a turbo install similar to how you did it, but it will be nice to learn what a different timing curve will do. It will also be nice to know what the limit of the stock injectors is. I also wonder how much the head gasket will stand.
Thanks.
Dave
p.s. - As far as tubos, I have some DSM experience, and afaik, the 2gen T25 isn't real happy above around 225 horse worth of air. The 1 gen stick car14B should be fairly happy up to 275 or so. Above those levels, the charge-air gets really hot. Fyi - I've been told by an expert that I trust that a 60 trim Garret from the efi 2.3 Ford is real close to a 16G Mitsu, as far as compressor output. I know a guy that uses a Ford turbo on a DSM, and he has tried both .48 and .63 A/R turbine versions. The .48 worked much better on the 2.0. The .63 A/R version didn't reach full boost until 3500+.



Mines a kit that was not a kit. Well its part of many vehicles and a kit to create my own monster. Look at the dynos the only managment I have is a FMU unit. Everything else is controlled by the stock ECU. Ive got plenty of power from the 2.2 already and Im sure itll only take a little bit to make much much more. A bigger turbo on my part and bigger injectors and say 10 pounds of boost and Im sure ill be making well into the 220's or more. Maybe 250 if its all setup and created in perfect harmony if ya know what I mean. [/QUOTE]
 

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Thanks Im getting good at this turbo thing. Its a third vehicle Ive done A Honda Accord and An Acura Integra. The TDO5H 14b is good for me. I cant figure out what benefit A 16g would give me right now except lag the turbo Im using seems to be giving me all I want and It spools very damn fast. I love the 1G bov too a little lazy but loud. The timing is ran by the computer all stock and I seem to always be running just a little rich according to my o2 gauge. So the injectors are doing exatcly what I want them to. My plans are simple from here. Im gonna redo some of the tubing basicly stage 3 for my charge pipe. And modify the water injection a little bit stage 4 for that. And wait to sell it. Then horseshoe a LS1 into there with a turbo on it. I love the pull it gives at boost. Its great to have that Im gonna hurt myself with that kind of power but hey if ya got it use it. And the headgasket I dont even want to think about it.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
GoofyGuy,

I agree that the 14B should be pretty a good match at your power level. Are you running a wide band? I understand that the narrow band meters can't read much away from stoich. Afaik, they'll tell you if you are lean or rich of stoich, but you can't trust the numbers once you get a couple of tenths away from stoich. Btw - I have a lambday boy wideband meter. It's slick,and it'l read acurately from 10-1 to 18-1. Expensive though.

As far as the 16G, it might be happier at 280+ worth of air, but not below 250, imo. Fyi - you can run the 6 CM2 turbine housing from the 14B on a 16G to keep the quick spool-up. The tubine wheels are the same, so the housings swap. You have no plans to try some differnt timing curves then?
Thanks much.
Dave



[/i]
Thanks Im getting good at this turbo thing. Its a third vehicle Ive done A Honda Accord and An Acura Integra. The TDO5H 14b is good for me. I cant figure out what benefit A 16g would give me right now except lag the turbo Im using seems to be giving me all I want and It spools very damn fast. I love the 1G bov too a little lazy but loud. The timing is ran by the computer all stock and I seem to always be running just a little rich according to my o2 gauge. So the injectors are doing exatcly what I want them to. My plans are simple from here. Im gonna redo some of the tubing basicly stage 3 for my charge pipe. And modify the water injection a little bit stage 4 for that. And wait to sell it. Then horseshoe a LS1 into there with a turbo on it. I love the pull it gives at boost. Its great to have that Im gonna hurt myself with that kind of power but hey if ya got it use it. And the headgasket I dont even want to think about it. [/QUOTE]
 

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The pics are coming. Ive got the cam comin tomorrow night. I have the kit up for sale so its really just tinkering to get it the best I can for the next person. So not gonna mess with timing because theres no way to do so without aftermarket modification.
 

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Water Injection

Goofy:

I've always liked water injection setups... what setup are you using for the water injection? Are you running 50/50 water alcohol mixture?

It's amazing how much heat water will take! (high specific heat for those chem folks out there)

Fascinating... the local mechanic figured I could get by with just a better fuel pressure regulator and stock program as long as I kept the boost reasonable (6 psi perhaps).

I still gotta find a decent turbo out there on ebay and not LOOSE the auction... or dsm trader....

Thanks for a decent knowledgeable conversation :)

-Matt
 

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I cant belive how many people never heard of water injection. Its by far the best way to keep heat down. Right now its a 50/50 but I plan on dropping the alc and running toulene. Sure quick evaperating stuff as anyone who understands the principals of water injection that shit is gonna make this intake very cold. I bought a good 14b and rebuilt it cost less in the long run and so far it only cost about 200 for the turbo. And its about time someone knew what the hell I was talking about.
 

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Why not just run straight denatured alcohol instead of mixing it with water? Alcohol suppose to cool the intake charge better than water.
 

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Well, cost is one reason. Distilled water is about a dollar, where as alcohol is a little bit more. Another good idea is to use blue windshield washer fluid. It's a 50/50 mix of water and alky with some slight blue dies, but nothing that will harm the motor. It costs about a dollar a gallon, and can be found just about anywhere. Why would alcohol cool the intake charge better? Water should cool it better because of the specific heat, just water doesnt squish and combust, and therefore the vapor will take up a small portion in the intake charge, where as alky would still combust.
 

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cool!

Hey Goofy... sure I know all about water injection! I know some people that run it with supercharged apps to keep detonation down.

Most of the stuff I've seen is homebrew with the shurflo 50 dollar pumps at 60psi and oil furnace nozzles (4 bucks each cool!)

Getting the right solenoids to control it with a boost switch is the important part.

Tolulene should net you some serious octane boost. They used Tolulene in the 80's on formula 1 cars... 1.5 liters with 73 PSI of boost! that's 5 bar for those metric folks *grin* That was only for qualifying mind you.... only 59 psi for the race hehehe.

Reasons to mix alcohol and water.....
- People have experimented with alcohol in the water mix to add power.... after 50% I believe they find little to no gain in power output.

-Alcohol is necessary in colder climates (such as sunny cleveland ohio) to keep it from freezing

-Water doesn't compress well and doesn't burn. It means you get a little less fuel into the cylinder but you also get a little bit more compression.

-As metioned.... water is cheap and effective for it's cooling properties. Sure keeps your intake track NICE and clean! It will also help keep your valves from forming carbon deposits.

I have some windshield washer reservoirs sitting around the house from a boneyard just in case I take the turbo plunge :)

Are you injection the water before or after the turbo? If you inject before the turbo I understand it can wear on the turbine blades a bit over time. Probably minimal damage though compared to detonating your engine hehehe.

This is a great route to go in my opinion and probably is the reason you can maintain a stock ignition advance curve (read HUGE octane rating by the time water gets injected into the mix) I wonder what your intake temp is down to... hmmmm

-Matt
 

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A guy on a turbo Buick message board tested water, denatured alky, rubbing alky, and methanol injection on his Grand National. The methanol gave the intake the coolest temp. The 2nd alky that gave the coolest temp was the denatured alky. Water cooled the intake the lest out of all of the other alcohols.
 
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