MegaSquirt?
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That’s a while away… how much are you thinking for the setup I need?
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1,151 Posts
Newer stuff like Holley is self learn that you can tweak if you wish. They work well immediately if correctly installed and basic info entered thur included handheld
But isn’t it real expensive?
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1,151 Posts
Figure budget for what's known needed, then times 2.5 to 3.0.
Hours can be figured about the same way
I still haven’t gotten a straight answer to what’s needed lol
You are not outlining the project well enough to draft a concrete plan. If you eventually plan on an LS swap this will get you in the ball park.
MS EVO = $1600 (cause this one would also work with the LS swap)
Custom Wiring harness for the 2.8 by someone = $1000
WIdeband O2 = $200
Dyno tuning/remote tune hours = $1000
Other stuff = $???
Installation by you. Lots of other items to consider here, but we don't know your truck and what you've got in mind, current fuel system etc.
Holley stuff would be about the same or slightly more, but attempting to use the cheaper Stealth units would be an issue like previously mentioned cause they don't make a Holley EFI dizzy for the 2.8, you'd probably have to go with the Terminator. I don't know the Holley stuff super well, so maybe they've got some newer stuff out i'm not aware of, I only do MS now, TunerPro/Moats stuff to me is End-Of-Life.
Both MS and Holley will somewhat autotune, but neither will autotune spark or cold startup (MS can autotune after start enrichment), tip in etc. Tuning AFR at idle and WOT is easy, the other drive-ability stuff is where it gets tougher and the experience part comes in.
I don't know about the 2.8s, but the 2.5 Duke was pretty much out of injector duty cycle from the factory, FYI, for the E code engines anyhow. (My Duke repowered 57 Hillman Husky I run at 18PSI to keep some injector margin)
You know what’s funny I just got an email from a company the sells MS and they said to use the Microsquirt lol
The micro can't control the factory GM IAC valve, but the micro does have one available PWM output, so a different make IAC is possible. Though extra hardware can be interfaced to make the factory IAC function, but more stuff to buy and wiring.
Micro also won't work with the future LS plans.
The LS won’t be for a minute…
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7,603 Posts
I'm building a 2.2l and using a MS3x kit I soldered and built myself to control it. Super flexible, I can do things the factory never did. LS coils, flat reponse knock sensor, MAF, any sensor from any manufacturer, actually tune E85 for performance, etc.
I messaged you
LOL, plenty of both good and bad info in this thread.
I also have to laugh at the guy that claims that an "'86 is too old to tune"... with a Megasquirt? Or was that a discussion about the OEM ECU? Either way, both can be tuned, most people just don't want to tune OBD1 EFI anymore because people thinks it's difficult. The only thing that makes it difficult is if there are no already existing XDF and ADX files, which exist for many OBD1 GM ECMs.
Anyway, any MS2, or MS3 will run just about any GM engine just fine, especially the very basic gen 1 2.8 and LS engines, only exception being the DI versions (LT?).
I install and tune both Holley and Megasquirt system (among others), and I prefer the Megasquirt. It's far more adaptable, and has far, far more adjustability, along with more IO, even on the basic models in comparison. Though Holley does have closed loop fuel control absolutely figured out and works extremely well. Holley does have some other positives, but overall, Holley EFI is pretty low on my recommended list, with the Sniper being an exception, due to it's specific target use.
As far as installing a Megasquirt on a 2.8, basically all you need is the ECU, an at least a short harness, at minimum. You can splice into your existing or make a plug and play adapter (I have one "BoB" adapter left for the 2 plug OBD1 GM harnesses, that can be used to make any of the MS (or other ECUs into a plug and play system) that I would be willing to part with. You can keep all of your existing sensors and actuators (IAC, injectors, etc). The MS2 and MS3 based on either the V3.0 or V3.57 boards can drive the low-Z injectors directly, the MS3 pro versions would need additional resistors to limit current on the injector circuits. Adding a wideband O2 controller and sensor will help with tuning with having better data than using the Narrow Band O2 sensor. I often use 14point7.com controllers.
If you decided to buy a Holley, you basically need the same parts, other than the WBO2 controller, since the Holley ECUs have WBO2 connectivity built in. You would probably just want to grab either the universal harness and replace yours, or use to make a plug and play adapter, like I suggested above for the Megasquirt, or just the connector kit, crimp and use your own wires (but I also suggest buying the proper crimper for the terminals if you wanted to go that way.
You need to come up with a plan and specific goals to decide what parts are actually needed.
I also have to laugh at the guy that claims that an "'86 is too old to tune"... with a Megasquirt? Or was that a discussion about the OEM ECU? Either way, both can be tuned, most people just don't want to tune OBD1 EFI anymore because people thinks it's difficult. The only thing that makes it difficult is if there are no already existing XDF and ADX files, which exist for many OBD1 GM ECMs.
Anyway, any MS2, or MS3 will run just about any GM engine just fine, especially the very basic gen 1 2.8 and LS engines, only exception being the DI versions (LT?).
I install and tune both Holley and Megasquirt system (among others), and I prefer the Megasquirt. It's far more adaptable, and has far, far more adjustability, along with more IO, even on the basic models in comparison. Though Holley does have closed loop fuel control absolutely figured out and works extremely well. Holley does have some other positives, but overall, Holley EFI is pretty low on my recommended list, with the Sniper being an exception, due to it's specific target use.
As far as installing a Megasquirt on a 2.8, basically all you need is the ECU, an at least a short harness, at minimum. You can splice into your existing or make a plug and play adapter (I have one "BoB" adapter left for the 2 plug OBD1 GM harnesses, that can be used to make any of the MS (or other ECUs into a plug and play system) that I would be willing to part with. You can keep all of your existing sensors and actuators (IAC, injectors, etc). The MS2 and MS3 based on either the V3.0 or V3.57 boards can drive the low-Z injectors directly, the MS3 pro versions would need additional resistors to limit current on the injector circuits. Adding a wideband O2 controller and sensor will help with tuning with having better data than using the Narrow Band O2 sensor. I often use 14point7.com controllers.
If you decided to buy a Holley, you basically need the same parts, other than the WBO2 controller, since the Holley ECUs have WBO2 connectivity built in. You would probably just want to grab either the universal harness and replace yours, or use to make a plug and play adapter, like I suggested above for the Megasquirt, or just the connector kit, crimp and use your own wires (but I also suggest buying the proper crimper for the terminals if you wanted to go that way.
You need to come up with a plan and specific goals to decide what parts are actually needed.
I definitely want the MS, would you consider making one for someone?
Just curious, if not just need the parts list of what I need to get for just a touch more than basic lol
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10,859 Posts
Stay away from "That guy"
Since you will be using a completely different engine management system, the year won't make a difference to a phone pole...
All systems use similar parameters...
Engine temps, air intake measurement, timing control and sensing, exhaust gas monitoring (O2 sensor) and many use RPM or crank sensor monitor. TBI is very basic.
These are the basics. Some systems are more sophisticated - newer vehicles.
BTW, your list of replacement parts for a 2.8 has many unnecessary purchases.
All iron heads for 2.8, 3.1 and 3.4 V6s are the same. A good valve job and port match is all that's needed.
Unless you're going for roller rockers, inspect and replace only what's worn. Most of the time they never wear out.
Same with push rods.
The best bang for your (hard earned $$) is to source a 95/96 Camaro/Firebird 3.4, It's a direct bolt in and is 600CCs bigger than the 2.8 (Duh)
I built a (basically stock) 95 Camaro 3.4 and paid $150 at a Upull yard.
I ran an Edelbrock/Holley, Mallory distributor (rare as hell) headers, big single exhaust, huge cam and running a 5 speed with a custom built 4.10 Eaton posi disc brake rear end.
Best 1320 time?
14.2 at 96 MPH.
The truck runs mid to low 14s regularly.
IIRC, I bought a used intake and carb, new timing chain and 500" lift 98* duration cam, Crane roller rockers ($$), headers, 3" Hearthrob exhaust, High flow cat.
The engine had 125K miles on it and I didn't touch anything internal.
All of this cost less than the machine work and parts for a rebuilt engine.
If you're bent on running your 2.8, all of this still applies.
Read this:
www.s10forum.com
Since you will be using a completely different engine management system, the year won't make a difference to a phone pole...
All systems use similar parameters...
Engine temps, air intake measurement, timing control and sensing, exhaust gas monitoring (O2 sensor) and many use RPM or crank sensor monitor. TBI is very basic.
These are the basics. Some systems are more sophisticated - newer vehicles.
BTW, your list of replacement parts for a 2.8 has many unnecessary purchases.
All iron heads for 2.8, 3.1 and 3.4 V6s are the same. A good valve job and port match is all that's needed.
Unless you're going for roller rockers, inspect and replace only what's worn. Most of the time they never wear out.
Same with push rods.
The best bang for your (hard earned $$) is to source a 95/96 Camaro/Firebird 3.4, It's a direct bolt in and is 600CCs bigger than the 2.8 (Duh)
I built a (basically stock) 95 Camaro 3.4 and paid $150 at a Upull yard.
I ran an Edelbrock/Holley, Mallory distributor (rare as hell) headers, big single exhaust, huge cam and running a 5 speed with a custom built 4.10 Eaton posi disc brake rear end.
Best 1320 time?
14.2 at 96 MPH.
The truck runs mid to low 14s regularly.
IIRC, I bought a used intake and carb, new timing chain and 500" lift 98* duration cam, Crane roller rockers ($$), headers, 3" Hearthrob exhaust, High flow cat.
The engine had 125K miles on it and I didn't touch anything internal.
All of this cost less than the machine work and parts for a rebuilt engine.
If you're bent on running your 2.8, all of this still applies.
Read this:
2.8 and 60* V6 Performance Mods
Since I have seen so many threads about improving power in the 60*, maybe I can offer some tips on helping these engines perform better. First, some factory specs: 2.8 V6 (RWD 82-85) RPO: LR2 VIN: B Engine Description (LB6) 2.8L 60 degree V6 (Carbureted) Horsepower ([email protected]) [email protected] Torque...
www.s10forum.com
I read that and there is where 90% of my build came from… I apologize the heads are ported and bowls worked over and milled. But yea I want to keep the 2.8… only 106k on it and if I do a swap it will be to a LS… lol.Stay away from "That guy"
Since you will be using a completely different engine management system, the year won't make a difference to a phone pole...
All systems use similar parameters...
Engine temps, air intake measurement, timing control and sensing, exhaust gas monitoring (O2 sensor) and many use RPM or crank sensor monitor. TBI is very basic.
These are the basics. Some systems are more sophisticated - newer vehicles.
BTW, your list of replacement parts for a 2.8 has many unnecessary purchases.
All iron heads for 2.8, 3.1 and 3.4 V6s are the same. A good valve job and port match is all that's needed.
Unless you're going for roller rockers, inspect and replace only what's worn. Most of the time they never wear out.
Same with push rods.
The best bang for your (hard earned $$) is to source a 95/96 Camaro/Firebird 3.4, It's a direct bolt in and is 600CCs bigger than the 2.8 (Duh)
I built a (basically stock) 95 Camaro 3.4 and paid $150 at a Upull yard.
I ran an Edelbrock/Holley, Mallory distributor (rare as hell) headers, big single exhaust, huge cam and running a 5 speed with a custom built 4.10 Eaton posi disc brake rear end.
Best 1320 time?
14.2 at 96 MPH.
The truck runs mid to low 14s regularly.
IIRC, I bought a used intake and carb, new timing chain and 500" lift 98* duration cam, Crane roller rockers ($$), headers, 3" Hearthrob exhaust, High flow cat.
The engine had 125K miles on it and I didn't touch anything internal.
All of this cost less than the machine work and parts for a rebuilt engine.
If you're bent on running your 2.8, all of this still applies.
Read this:
2.8 and 60* V6 Performance Mods
Since I have seen so many threads about improving power in the 60*, maybe I can offer some tips on helping these engines perform better. First, some factory specs: 2.8 V6 (RWD 82-85) RPO: LR2 VIN: B Engine Description (LB6) 2.8L 60 degree V6 (Carbureted) Horsepower ([email protected]) [email protected] Torque...
I tune Snipers a lot, they are not really "self tuning". They still need to be manually tuned to not develop issues, and Holley's default settings allow for FAR too wide and for amount of fuel added/removed and usually ends up running poorly after a short time.
I really wish they would stop advertising them as "self learning".
In short, you still need to have a Holley Sniper tuned for best results.
What/how are you going to solve the distributor issue with the Sniper, timing control?
EDIT,
With the sniper you'll also need a 60psi fuel system.
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