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2wd Lift Expert
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After I lifted my truck I went through ball joints way to quick and I couldn’t get it within proper alignment specs so I decided to take my problem truck to Fabtechs headquarters and see what they have to say about this! The gray haired tech that inspected my truck would only tell me that my rims and tires are not what Fabtech recommends with their kit because they’re too wide and that is causing my problem. He is the one that got me going on the leverage and pivot concept. Since I wasn’t going to take the only "legally responsible" suggestion of putting on 15x8 rims with 31/10.50 tires (30 inches by 8 inch tread, yuck!) I figured out an experiment to try. That was to buy another set of ¾ inch Fabtech spacers and yes, double them up. I bought aircraft grade 9 bolts and tried it. WOW! I actually had a smooth ride but I lost 1.5 inches of ground clearance under my cross member! I went from 20 inches to 18.5 but, problem solved I thought. I’ll just have the assembly Mig welded and gusseted. Until, I brought it down to the alignment shop that day. Now before with 1 set of spacers I had no caster or camber adjustment (but camber was within spec) because the Fabtech upper A-arms were too short, now with 2 sets of spacers the arms are too long! Now I have custom ¼ inch spacers. The ball joints are breaking because they are not meant to take lateral force. The weakness and stiff ride of the short arm lift kit isn't the kit but the ball joints and the stock suspension geometry. Let me explain. Since the stock upper arms are so much shorter then the lowers when the suspension travels down (like when the truck is catching air) the upper arm swings dramatically more down and is in a
7 O'clock position while the lower arm is at 8 O’clock. Stock both are at 9 O'clock (level) On the landing the upper ball joint is in it's weakest position when it takes the maximum force. Poorly setup lift kits will be setup with the upper A-arms at an extreme downward angle during normal operation and will be taking weight off of the coil spring! When I had this setup the ride was so bad I could hardly light my cigarette while driving on pavement without burning my mustache. Stock style ball joints are just not made to take horizontal force like that against the stamped sheet metal cup. That is where my Uniball ball joints, aftermarket limit straps and ball joint spacers come in handy. The trick to the setup is you have to use the proper amount of ball joint spacers to get the stress off of the upper arm during normal on and off road travel and use limit straps or larger droop stops for the occasional wild off roading. For me due to the 15x10 rims and 33x12.50 tires the proper ball joint spacing is about an inch. That's because wider tires and rims have a much greater leverage to push top of the tire horizontally toward the frame using the lower ball joint as its pivot axis. If my upper A-arm is at too much downward angle there is enough force horizontally to push the upper ball joint closer to the frame increasing my lift height and tearing up my upper; ball joints, A-arms and mounts. The Fabtechs spacers are 3/4 inch and are still too short. By using a set of longer A-arms this problem of transferring weight to the upper arms is eliminated and puts it all back to the lower A-arm and coil spring where it belongs. However you are now putting much more weight to the coil spring because of the increased leverage the longer arms have and the weight taken off of the upper A-arms.




So I do NOT suggest any short arm spring and A-arm lift kit even though I use one. It’s just too hit or miss with nasty ball joint or frame cracking problems. I have braced the upper mounts by welding in gussets under the cross bar bolts and where the stock droop stop was cut off. After those started cracking from my ball joint test sessions I went with 1/4 inch thick plates that run down the outside of the upper A-arm mounts 1 to 1.5 inches and across the frame for 3 to 4 inches.



If you just want a few inches then go with the 3.5 inch $400 Fabtech spindle and $100 stainless steal break lines, it’s a good choice. Fabtech has the best design and is used by other quality lift kit companies like California Super Trucks (CST) with their 5.5 inch lift kits. You won't be disappointed in the quality. Fabtech is the only company to make a spindle with a solid reputation. The $280 3.0 inch lift spindle by AIM industries (sold under several names like Chassis Tech ect) is the only other company to cast a S-10 lift spindle and they have been known to break. So stay away from the 3.0 lift spindles. If you decide to find a Fabtech set used on Ebay be sure to get the right style due to the different break caliper design from 99 to 03. Longer stainless steel brake lines will also be needed. This type of brake line has a plus and minus. The plus is that they will not expand under pressure (while the break pedal is depressed) like the factory nylon corded rubber break lines do. The result is a much firmer break peddle and increased pressure to the pads. This means it takes less foot pressure to stop the truck. The minus is that because they are so rigid they tend to flex most at the ends. DOT approved braided steal break lines will have some type of support near the ends of the braded steal hose. If the break lines don’t have this added support the line will fray near the fittings and will fail prematurely. Only get DOT approved Stainless steal break lines.



Next step for just a little more tire clearance I'd suggest a $120 Performance Accessories 3 inch body lift kit. Some people say a body lift raises the center of gravity too much. I disagree. To achieve increased tire clearance you have to raise the fenders or cut them. Since there isn’t much to cut on the second gens we’re stuck. A body lift will increase your center of gravity some, but not near as much as a suspension lift that raises the motor, trans, frame ect. The reason a 3 inch lift kit only fits the 94 model year of the second gens is due to a difference in the lower steering column shaft. The 95 and up use a splined shaft. If you want a custom shaft made try Borgeson.com. If your heater line on your truck is like my 94 V6 you'll need a Gates 18751 from your local parts store. My heater hose makes a sharp 90 degree turn down from the firewall to the back of the intake manifold. Both ends are different sizes 5/8 top and 1/2 at the bottom. With the kit I just got a 5/8 hose to use on the power break booster and the heater line. NO WAY was that hose going to make the bend down without kinking. The gap guards were originally made in southern California by a guy in his garage out of big rig inner tubes. He made templates with cardboard first.




For those of you that haven’t bought a lift kit yet you may want to consider the AIM long arms $650) and my Uniball joints ($300 to $350) verses the CST long arm kit ($1800 to $2500 depending on options). I am thinking that because they both use long arms and Uniballs so most of the problems we have with the short arm lift kits will be minimized if not eliminated. The AIM kit with Uniballs just does it for half the cash. Either setup is capable of being broken with enough abuse. The CST kit’s strength is a well earned reputation for quality parts and they have welded on a larger one inch Uniball ball joint. The only problems I have heard about with their setup is that they don’t use a factory style tapered pin. Instead they use a 5/8 inch grade 8 bolt that can oval out the spindle over time on street driven trucks and they use a softer coil spring that doesn’t give as much lift. The AIM and my Uniball setup have a tapered pin but the ¾ inch size of the Uniball is limited to what will fit between the bolt holes but will eliminate the side breaking out issues you have with stock ball joints. AIM has a questionable reputation
that the company service and support sucks. People who have bought their long arm kits though are happy with the hardware and ride quality. I have no direct information other then what I have read and herd from the owners of each kit. For shocks, the so called front “3 inch S10 lift shocks” are actually shocks originally designed for the 91 through 99 Chevy C2500 (¾ ton) 2WD Suburban and are just relabeled. A quality self adjusting gas charged shock is highly recommended such as the Bilstein BE5-2422 and is what I use.



Lets talk about coil spring rates now. A mild 1.5 inch lift spring rate such as the Moog & TRW 5662's and 5664's are about 640 to 710 and can be used with stock upper A-arms. Some slightly longer (3/4 inch) springs that require tubular A-arms are the Fabtech 7268-2 for the 4 cylinder standard cab is 710. The Fabtech 7268-3 for the V-6 extended cab is 750. The Fabtech 7268-4 for their discontinued long arm setup is 800. Full size truck stock spring rates vary from 760 to 870 depending on the model and the ton capacity of the truck. If you plan on installing the lift kit yourself I have the trick to installing the coil springs. Only do this if you are an experienced mechanic and take all safety precautions. A compressed coil spring is vary dangerous. Follow the shop service manual instructions. This is merely an added technique I discovered to complete the job much faster. This at first took me all day. Now I can now start the job after work and be done in time for dinner. Place the coil spring on the lower A-arm and twist it to the groove so you know what half is facing the engine. Grease the threads on the inside coil spring compressor because your going to compress a 15 inch spring down to 10 inches. Insert the coil hooks from the compressor kit one coil in from each end. Now slide it off center towards the engine side of the spring until it stops but the hooks remain firmly in place. Now when you compress the spring it will bind it into a slight “C” shape. This will give you the added clearance to clear the lower section of the coil spring cup on the frame. Once in place as you release the pressure on the spring make sure it sets properly into the seat on the top too (as shown above). If you don’t seat it properly on top it will tear up your frame. After you bolt up the spindle and remove the spring compressor tool, double check the spring placement by looking up through the lower shock mounting hole.



Ok, now to the rear end. Since a spindle lift only lifts a little more then leveling out most trucks I will only look to the rear end as the last step. There are two ways to go. One is more dramatic then the other. The first way is to use hangers, shackles and shocks. Remember that if you put on a 2 inch lift shackle it will only give you 1 inch of lift. Think of it this way. If you have a 5 foot bar you raise one end 2 inches the net result for the middle of the bar is 1 inch. Now think of the spring as the bar with the axle in the middle. Since the axle is bolted to the middle of the spring the net result of the 2 inch shackle lift is 1 inch of lift. Next is the hanger, the leaf spring mount closest to the front of the truck. A CST 1.5 inch hanger will give a ¾ inch lift to the axle. For the shocks look for Suburban rear shocks for up to 1.5 inch of lift and go to the ZR2 rear shocks for a 2 to 3 inch lift. The second more dramatic lift is the flip kit. It puts the axle under the leaf spring instead of over it. It will be 4.5 to 5 inches of lift. You will have to weld it in or the flip kit will break off the stock spring perches. Mine broke the first day. The factory perches just aren't made to take pressure from the other side. From there you need to move the axle assembly forward 3/4 of an inch forward on the spring. This will help make up the distance in the driveshaft splines and e-brake cables. Lastly you have to keep the lower shock mounts under the spring to keep travel and ride quality. You keep your factory hydraulic break line but you will have to bend the bracket up that is bolted down to the pumpkin cover. Your pinion needs to point directly forward (level). Don't point it up towards the back of the trans. As the U-joints rotate on an angle the driveshaft speeds up and slows down with every revolution. One end equals out the other, unless they do not have the same angle. In that case they will speed up and slow down the pinion and you'll feel it vibrate the whole truck. With a flip kit your lower shock mounts will still be under the leaf springs. This means you got a 5 inch lift and you can use stock replacement S10 shocks. I use and recommend the $59 Bilstein B 46-1681 for the 82 through 99 S10.

If your going to get a whole new rear end to weld in the flip kit just make sure it's from a 2wd, the 4wd rear ends are wider. I got my 3.73 Posi at a pick your parts salvage yard for $65 axle to axle. Look in the glove box for the axle codes. The 2wd, 4wd S10 and full size trucks use the same codes. If it has a factory posi it will have a G80 code. The other G codes are GU2=2.73, GU4=3.08, GU6=3.42, GT4=3.73 and GT5=4.10. Happy hunting!







The specs of the ball joints are; 3/4 inch Teflon coated self lubricating Uniball. That’s the biggest Uniball that would fit between the bolt holes and still get a wrench on the heads. The cup is press fit and tig welded to two 3/16” steel mounting plates that are welded together and Zink plated for a total of 3/8 inch thick rust proof mounting plate. The plates are predrilled to use the same factory bolt holes as any other replacement S10 ball joint so you can still use your Fabtech ball joint spacers if you want to as shown in the pictures below. The pin is made of 85,000 PSI strength (side to side shearing resistance strength). What the racers want to know about ball joint pins. Almost all other bolts are tested on a pull apart strength and the Pounds per square Inch (PSI) it takes to pull it into two pieces. The pins are 150k PSI in that scale. They are made of stress proof spring steel that is black oxide coated and tapered to factory specs to fit the top of the Fabtech or stock spindle like a glove and to complete the direct bolt in replacement. I learned at the aircraft parts store the reason for the taper is to dissipate the shearing force over a larger area. So, if the shearing force is dissipated over half inch area (the contact length of the taper) verses an edge. If shearing were no longer an issue by design then it only makes sense to seek a non fatiguing type material such as what coil springs are made of. That is what the steal in the pins is made of, coil spring steal.



The Uniball ball joints will bolt right up to a 1983 to 2003 4wd too. The 4wd and 2wd ball joints use the same four bolt pattern and use the same tapered spindle pin. The only difference I could see was that the 4wd BJ had a different (higher) roll center axis, in other words the pivot point is closer to the A-arm then on the 2wd version by about a 1/4 inch. You can/should check for yourself by going to your local auto parts store and ask to see one of each. In the pic that I am holding the two ball joints side by side you'll notice two small spacers below the Uniball on the pin, one thicker (1/4 inch) silver one and a thinner (1/8 inch) gold one on the one that is bolted in. Those small spacers are to adjust the roll center (standard for all quality race car ball joints) and must be installed either above or below the Uniball. I would still recommend getting an alignment as you should after replacing any suspension components. Just to make myself perfectly clear, I am saying it will fit and you can adjust the roll center axis up to 3/8 of an inch, in increments of 1/8 inch. I wouldn't worry too much about the roll center unless you're trying to cut down your Daytona speedway track times. I move mine up and down by the inch. Up 3.5 inches with my lift spindles, down 1 inch with my ball joint spacers and down another 1/4 inch because I mounted my ball joints below the upper A-arm (very common practice) instead of through the top, and then up 3/8 inch with the spacers on the Uniball pins. Do ya see how for us in the truck world it's really no big deal?




[




I will be glad to answer questions about lifting my truck here



Yours Truely,
Steve
AKA The Red Baron
[email protected]

 

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Re: Lifted 94 2WD With 33/12.50/15 Tires! Sticky Me?

Great Post!
 

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Re: Lifted 94 2WD With 33/12.50/15 Tires! Sticky Me?

Great post! Wish I would have read this sooner. I have a 97 4x4 sonoma that has a two inch body and two inch suspension. With a little triming i was able to fit 33 ich tires by 12.5 inches wide and was experiencing the same problem with replacing my ball joints. After doing a little research and talking to a chassis engeneer I found out about Chysler screw in ball joints. He told me I would break my control arm before I would break the ball joint. I order 4 and didn't know what i was getting into but after major mods I got them to fit and I never have to worry about changing a ball joint again because they are so bigg and the good part is they are screw-in so if one goes out it would take me one wrench and about 5 mins to change one on the trail.
 

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2wd Lift Expert
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Re: Lifted 94 2WD With 33/12.50/15 Tires! Sticky Me?

wakekrzy said:
Great post! Wish I would have read this sooner. I have a 97 4x4 sonoma that has a two inch body and two inch suspension. With a little triming i was able to fit 33 ich tires by 12.5 inches wide
:rotf: Buddy your so full of BS it's not even funny. Not only do I know it but so does anyone who has a 4wd S10 with any kind of a lift kit on it knows it too. Nice try kid. :cool:
 

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Re: Lifted 94 2WD With 33/12.50/15 Tires! Sticky Me?

Ha Ha Ha if you don't believe a word I am saying then go to the member's project forum and go to wakekrzys sonoma project and look at the pics I have pics of the ball joints That I Put In and the tires that go on the truck. I wish I could show you even more how stupid I am but my truck is currently in parts geting a custom 5 inch lift I am fabricating for it so if you have any more wise cracks just let me know and I would be glad to repond.

Sincerely,
the kid
 

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Re: Lifted 94 2WD With 33/12.50/15 Tires! Sticky Me?

Sorry mistake, the forum is called custom suspension lift that has my pics on it.
 

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ITS NOT EASY BEING EASY, MODERATOR
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Re: Lifted 94 2WD With 33/12.50/15 Tires! Sticky Me?

this is a good post red baron.

but we have a strict advertising policy here. you even stated you would be getting a discount on your setup.

you cannot sell parts this way.
 

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2wd Lift Expert
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Re: Lifted 94 2WD With 33/12.50/15 Tires! Sticky Me?

That's ok, The group buy is over and out. Do you want me to edit the group buy info out or what do you sugest?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Re: Lifted 94 2WD With 33/12.50/15 Tires! Sticky Me?

Oops there is no [Edit Post] for me to click on. There must be a time limit. would you please do the honers.

Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Re: Lifted 94 2WD With 33/12.50/15 Tires! Sticky Me?

wakekrzy said:
Ha Ha Ha if you don't believe a word I am saying then go to the member's project forum and go to wakekrzys sonoma project and look at the pics I have pics of the ball joints That I Put In and the tires that go on the truck. I wish I could show you even more how stupid I am but my truck is currently in parts geting a custom 5 inch lift I am fabricating for it so if you have any more wise cracks just let me know and I would be glad to repond.
wakekrzy said:
Sincerely,

the kid




In the pics posted YESTERDAY the tires have never even seen mile number 1. Come back and show us some pics when you get it together and can post pics of the so called minor trimming and a drivable truck with 4 inch lift and the 33/12.50 tires. Oops, by then you will have another 5 inches of lift or is it a 6 inch lift like what you posted on the 23rd? If I were building a custom lift I would remember what size I was building. Ah, but that’s just me. I wonder why you are lifting it more if it fit fine before with “minor trimming”?



Nice job adapting the ball joints but I wasn’t questioning that part of your post. I have heard of other people doing that with mixed results. What I questioned was the tire size and minor trimming with a 4 inch lift. I know of a blazer that had a 2 inch lift arms, 5 inch bracket lift and a 2 inch body lift and he still had rubbing with 33/12.50’s. It might be possible to do with a 4 inch lift with some major trimming but I haven’t seen it yet. Good luck with whatever your doing and please do post pics of your progress on the custom lift kit.



Below are your quotes from so you can’t do a little last minute editing:



http://www.s10forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=166290



wakekrzy said:
I have a 97
wakekrzy said:
sonoma with a bought 2 inch lift kit and 2inch body lift. I just finished puting in custom ball joints (chrysler screw-in-balljoints). It took me about a month to cut new holes for the new b-joints then had to drill out my existing holes in my spindles to accomidate for the larger ball joint shaft. I am now running 17 inch rims with cooper cobra's stt 33 inch tires. Now i am working on a rear flip kit and am doing a custom 6 inch suspension lift kit.




wakekrzy said:
Here are two pics one is the suspension with the chrysler ball joints and the other is the tires I plan to put on. My truck sat outside for a week and that is why everything got so rusty. I love
wakekrzy said:
michigan weather.




Feel free to respond.
 

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Re: Lifted 94 2WD With 33/12.50/15 Tires! Sticky Me?

Al right you found a error on my 5 and 6 inch lift but I was mistaken because the 5 is for the 4 wheel drive and the 6 is for the 2wd do to the angle of the drive shaft that runs from the transfer case to the front differential. Too much angle means bye bye u-joints. Give me two days and I will get my old pics of my truck with only a four inch lift with 33 and a pics of my friends truck with only a two inch body lift with the same tires. And the tires you seen are 33 by 10.5 that are on 17 inch rims do to the excessively large ball joints. So you are true that they havn't seen a mile but my set of 33 by12.5 did fit and I will get the pics up soon to prove it that all is needed is a 2 inch body with minor triming to fit 33. And I just like any other off-roader am going bigger just because why stop with a four inch lift when you can go higher.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Re: Lifted 94 2WD With 33/12.50/15 Tires! Sticky Me?

Fair enough, you show me yours and I'll show you mine. :cool:

http://forums.s-series.org/viewtopic.php?t=34411

oober said:
I have all 3 lifts on my car for a total of 9 inches.
I can have the 2 suspension lifts because the superlift is new upper control arms and shackles and the trailmaster is drop brackets for the front and an axle flip for the rear.
It still rubs but only when I hit a driveway fast or flex out. Im sure if i would have picked a different amount of backspacing and/or a skinnier tire it would not rub nearly as much, but i got a Really g00d deal on the wheels so oh well.


Please note how close the tire is to the cab with "minor trimming" seen in the pic and remember as the suspension compresses it travels back towords the cab more. Now imagine how much clearance he has when he turns the steering wheel. Mind you this is with 9 inches of lift not 4. :D Go ahead and imagine his tire clearance if it were 5 inches shorter. Later he did some major trimming and pounding with a BFH and now has good clearance.

There is a 6 inch lift avalible for the 4wd's so the question of U-joints might not be so bad. The fact remains you didn't have the same lift size posted at both threads within a week of each other and forses me to question your honesty. I'm sure you can understand.
 

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Re: Lifted 94 2WD With 33/12.50/15 Tires! Sticky Me?

The red baron sounds like an ass to question him when he has never seen the truck. Ive seen the truck with a four inch lift it DID run 33X 12.5 For a long time and it kicked ass. You right the 33's on 17" rim's are new. If you put in bigger ball joints you will need bigger rims so the ball joints will clear. 15" rims wouldent clear so he had to buy new rims and tires. I got the old 33's I do rub when i turn hard and i trimed the fenders. Its like a baged truck with 20's i bet it rubs even after you trim out the fenders. But who cares
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Re: Lifted 94 2WD With 33/12.50/15 Tires! Sticky Me?

The ass showed why he believes what he does and why Mr 5 post count… :rolleyes: For me the proof is in the pic above. I have been around some forums that are infested with "kids" that post garbage BS to up their post count that when investigated or questioned they usually come back with... "dude i was just kidding! take a chill pill man." Now I get some 19 year old stranger with a post count of 13, posting something that is unlikely at BEST, and has counter dictions in his own posts. I have rested my case and am waiting for proof from him that 33/12.50 tires fit a 4 inch lifted S10 with MINOR TRIMMING. If I am proven wrong I can live with that. I have 33/12.50/15's on my truck that I drive daily and off road on weekends. I lifted the truck myself. I posted the faq above of what I learned in that process and am glad to give info or advice to anyone who would ask for it about 2wd S10's. I really don't care if 4wd S10's will fit 35 inch tires with a 2 inch body lift. That's not why I started this thread. :bugeye:



Yours Truly,

The Ass
 

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Re: Lifted 94 2WD With 33/12.50/15 Tires! Sticky Me?

how much did all of that cost you?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Re: Lifted 94 2WD With 33/12.50/15 Tires! Sticky Me?

I got the Fabtech Ultimate kit stuff used for 400.

2 more sets of lift coil springs for unknown cab and motor configuration used were 60 total from one guy.

Kragen Auto coil spring compressor 55.

Shocks were 55 and 59 each

Boots for front shocks were 10 each

Seats were used 75

3 inch body lift 109.

Rims are discontinued and gotten on Ebay for 454 shipped from Weld Racing.

Tires were on sale for 129 each before mounting and balancing.

Flip kit was free because it broke his axle spring perches too.

Weld on leaf spring perches to replace the flip kit 25.

ball joint spacers 30 on Ebay. Thanks again Barry.

Second set of spacers were full price 67.

3.73 Posi was 65 from Pick-A-Part local salvage yard.

Tow hooks 10 each 30 total.

New Smitty Built nurf bars (discontinued) were 110 from a local Ebay seller (no shipping fee).

Droop stops 15.

Straps to replace droop stops 35 each.

5 stock style ball joints 20 to 35 each.

Having custom built Uniball ball joints... Priceless!

I just received my brand new AIM long arm kit today 702 shipped.



I think that's about everything minus miscellaneous aircraft nuts, bolts and a few tools. Let me know if I left anything off.
 

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Re: Lifted 94 2WD With 33/12.50/15 Tires! Sticky Me?

thanks
 

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Re: Lifted 94 2WD With 33/12.50/15 Tires! Sticky Me?

Hey its me again don't worry I havn't forgot about the pics I will get to them soon enough but have been busy working on my five inch lift kit and just to keep you a little updated on how it is going, What I did is cut all the brackets hold what I want to call the "sub Frame " off then placed 5 1/2 inch mmmmmeta pates in beween giving me inches and leaving welding room. Just got the bacis suport in and now am putting in the tranny to make sure the front drive shaft lines up well with the diff. I know I promised pics but you will have to just keep checking for them because have been busy but as long as we can be civil i would be glad to take time and show u pics and keep updates.
 
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