[fattboyzz65]

Just looking for a chip I can plug in to help mileage and help my truck run its best.


2.8l Tbi engine

5 speed.

3.42 rearend.

The engine is peppy and runs good. Once it warms up ,the exhaust smells right.
Has a new 02 sensor on it.
Has full length exhaust but no cat. Airpump and Egr are still present and connected.

 

[oldeerslayer]

No, not really.

 

[bk2life]

2.8l Tbi engine

engine swap, or sell vehicle, its 40 years old, cant do much better with the combo it has now

 

[oldeerslayer]

Pretty much anything built before 98 isn't really tunable. 01 was when they got really tunable.
Most of the "Miracle 60HP Chips" actually plug into the OBD2 DLC connector of these later models. And are mostly BS.
Brian Harris can burn you another chip, but he'll be the first guy to tell you it won't do much.

TBI CHIPS Home

TBI CHIPS Home

harristuning.com

 

[The_Raven]

Pretty much anything built before 98 isn't really tunable. 01 was when they got really tunable.
Most of the "Miracle 60HP Chips" actually plug into the OBD2 DLC connector of these later models. And are mostly BS.
Brian Harris can burn you another chip, but he'll be the first guy to tell you it won't do much.

TBI CHIPS Home

TBI CHIPS Home

harristuning.com

LMAO, so I guess all of those older than 98 vehicles (and those equipped with OBD1 GM ECMs) that I tuned, I didn't really tune? HAHAHAHA

OBD1 (GM) IS ABSOLUTELY tunable, as long as the definitions for the particular vehicle are available, which the same applies for OBD2 as well. Basically if it's popular enough to have had someone create the definition to interpret the bin file, it can be tuned easily, or you will need to create your own definition file.

I've swapped OBD1 GM EFI onto engines not meant for it and tuned them to work very well, two odd balls are a friend's 1971 Oldsmobile Cutlass with a custom home made 4 bbl throttle body and a 4L80E (using a 454 truck PCM), and my Datsun 240Z with a L28 Turbo (using a 1989 Sunbird Turbo ECM with custom code, "Code59" ).

Now, you're not going to find a canned tune "mail order" chip that is going to do much, but that doesn't mean that a custom tune isn't going to be beneficial.

 

[oldeerslayer]

You make some very valid and true points.
But who is going to pay for a custom tune including burning chips for an 89 2.8L? And as you said:

you're not going to find a canned tune "mail order" chip that is going to do much

Locating someone in your area who has the equipment needed and the knowledge to custom tune OBD1's at a price that is less than the truck is worth will be a difficult search.
Not saying it wasn't done in the past, but today ???
The OP's request was for a chip to improve mileage.

 

[The_Raven]

You make some very valid and true points.
But who is going to pay for a custom tune including burning chips for an 89 2.8L? And as you said:

Locating someone in your area who has the equipment needed and the knowledge to custom tune OBD1's at a price that is less than the truck is worth will be a difficult search.
Not saying it wasn't done in the past, but today ???
The OP's request was for a chip to improve mileage.

Your claim was a blanket statement that "pre-98 was not very tuneable", when that is absolutely false, and EXTREMELY misleading.

I agree not many people want to work with OBD1 anymore, even though it's really no more difficult than newer systems, it's just different, and requires different, typically more specialized, hardware. However that doesn't negate the fact that it can be done, nor that it's also very tunable.

I know what the OP asked for, I'm correcting YOUR incorrect statement.

Any mileage tune will be a custom tune that will typically be performed by the vehicle owner, since testing will require long term testing to verify improvement. Tuning an OBD1 GM ECM can be done for less than $100 if chip burning for iterations is ok, which for a mileage tune, absolutely is, due to the long term analysis of the changes. Any running, driving S10 is worth much more than that. Yes more expensive hardware can be purchased but isn't necessary to do so.

 

[oldeerslayer]

I said you were right, but no, you had to pound on it a little more.

 

[bk2life]

when that is absolutely false

getting out the moats and stuff is almost not worth it these days. I have a nearly 100% stock 1991 GTA that i have purposely switched to the LS 0411 computer due to the much more advanced tuning abilities over the obd1.
But, beyond that, yes obd1 is tunable, i had a great guy do my car, he has since retired after like 40 years of obd1 tuning, and well, its just old tech.

Im not saying anything else, this horse has been beaten so much it is now glue.

 

[The_Raven]

getting out the moats and stuff is almost not worth it these days. I have a nearly 100% stock 1991 GTA that i have purposely switched to the LS 0411 computer due to the much more advanced tuning abilities over the obd1.
But, beyond that, yes obd1 is tunable, i had a great guy do my car, he has since retired after like 40 years of obd1 tuning, and well, its just old tech.

Im not saying anything else, this horse has been beaten so much it is now glue.

What "much more advanced tuning capabilities" does the 0411 have over OBD1? I can't think of a single one, and only see downsides, when it comes to actual tuning. Yes the 0411 can run sequential (and IIRC dual O2 sensors, one per bank), but that's a hardware improvement, not a tuning capability IMO. The 0411 also can't do real time tuning, unless you buy a Roadrunner, where as OBD1 can do with RTT, with a simple EEPROM emulator.

In the end use what you want, but I see far too many blanket statements that are incorrect or misleading, based on half truthes.

There is also zero reason for the OP to swap to a different system as would be implied from some of the replies to this thread, when the OBD1 system is capable of being tuned or a simple ECM swap to a more popular OBD1 ECM that will be or nearly be pin for pin plug in, depending on exactly which ECM the OP has.

 

[The_Raven]

I said you were right, but no, you had to pound on it a little more.

View attachment 368863

You did, but then went on to state more incorrect information, to which I also corrected, referencing the earlier part of the conversation, that is how conversations go after all...

 

[bk2life]

What "much more advanced tuning capabilities" does the 0411 have over OBD1?

go find an obd1 tuner.
then go find an obd11 tuner.

there ya go.

 

[The_Raven]

go find an obd1 tuner.
then go find an obd11 tuner.

there ya go.

LOL, that doesn't explain anything...

Besides I do OBD1 and OBD2 tuning, I don't need to go and find anyone to do it...

The only reason I see more people tuning OBD2 is because there are more OBD2 vehicles on the road currently. I still see plenty of interest for OBD1 tuning though.

 

[oldeerslayer]

The OP wanted to buy a chip to stick in his 89 2.8 for improved fuel mileage and possibly run better. Since you are the only one who seems to be able to easily burn him a chip that will do that, how about you send him one and have him install it. The OP can then respond with a real world review of how well it worked.
If not, this whole discussion is hypothetical.

 

[oldeerslayer]

You can also upgrade the old ECM to an EEPROM and tune it yourself with your laptop. Just like the newer trucks do.

EBL_Flash

Only $400. You'll also need to download Tunerpro and get an ALDL to USB cable.
If you increase your mileage 10% and drive the average 12K a year, at $5 a gallon you'll earn that back in under 3 years.

The best way to improve your mileage is to take off your work boots before you get behind the wheel. Driving barefoot is a proven way to improve fuel mileage. You tend to not push that little pedal quite a hard. Even tho all that available 2.8L of power is hard to resist.

 

[Brawndo]

You can also upgrade the old ECM to an EEPROM and tune it yourself with your laptop. Just like the newer trucks do.

EBL_Flash

Only $400. You'll also need to download Tunerpro and get an ALDL to USB cable.

Wow didn't know that existed. Will be ordering one!

 

[The_Raven]

The OP wanted to buy a chip to stick in his 89 2.8 for improved fuel mileage and possibly run better. Since you are the only one who seems to be able to easily burn him a chip that will do that, how about you send him one and have him install it. The OP can then respond with a real world review of how well it worked.
If not, this whole discussion is hypothetical.

If you paid any attention to what I said, I confirmed that a mail order chip is not how one would go about tuning for mileage and that it's a long term, iterative process. Also, I NEVER mail order or remote tune, there's too much missed without being in the vehicle being tuned. I've retuned a fair share of remote tuned vehicles and every remote tuned vehicle ran poorly, and I was able to clean them up within minutes to be very noticeably better, with a bit more time spent on the fine details.

There's no hypothetical about this, there's a very real tangible outcome that can come from tuning a vehicle, but again, its something that has to be done in person for best results and since mileage improvements take long periods of time to verify, it's not something that someone is going to pay someone else to do, but do it themselves.

You can also upgrade the old ECM to an EEPROM and tune it yourself with your laptop. Just like the newer trucks do.

EBL_Flash

Only $400. You'll also need to download Tunerpro and get an ALDL to USB cable.
If you increase your mileage 10% and drive the average 12K a year, at $5 a gallon you'll earn that back in under 3 years.

The best way to improve your mileage is to take off your work boots before you get behind the wheel. Driving barefoot is a proven way to improve fuel mileage. You tend to not push that little pedal quite a hard. Even tho all that available 2.8L of power is hard to resist.

You don't seem to understand what an EEPROM is. The GM ECM comes with a PROM, or EPROM (depending on what was used at that time), PROM > Programmable Read Only Memory, EPROM > Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory, and EEPROM > Electronically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory, these are all little chips. New vehicles typically use flash memory, to be able to update in the field, not EEPROMs. EEPROMs still typically need to be programmed by a programmer connected directly to the pins, while flash memory does not need this and uses minimal hardware that can be included on the circuit board easily.

The word you're looking for is Emulator (or maybe the aforementioned flash memory), that I have already mentioned, which is essentially what the EBL is, though it has more capabilities than just an emulator. Also, it comes with the cable to communicate with the laptop, so, no, you don't also need the ALDL cable.

The EBL, while a great tool, is not what would be suited to a mileage miser setup. though it can be used for that, it's just overkill. The original ECU, and EEPROM, a programmer and Tuner Pro are all that is needed for less than $100, and would be better suited if the goal is just increased mileage, IMO.

 

[Rhotpursuit]

If you paid any attention to what I said, I confirmed that a mail order chip is not how one would go about tuning for mileage and that it's a long term, iterative process. Also, I NEVER mail order or remote tune, there's too much missed without being in the vehicle being tuned. I've retuned a fair share of remote tuned vehicles and every remote tuned vehicle ran poorly, and I was able to clean them up within minutes to be very noticeably better, with a bit more time spent on the fine details.

There's no hypothetical about this, there's a very real tangible outcome that can come from tuning a vehicle, but again, its something that has to be done in person for best results and since mileage improvements take long periods of time to verify, it's not something that someone is going to pay someone else to do, but do it themselves.



You don't seem to understand what an EEPROM is. The GM ECM comes with a PROM, or EPROM (depending on what was used at that time), PROM > Programmable Read Only Memory, EPROM > Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory, and EEPROM > Electronically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory, these are all little chips. New vehicles typically use flash memory, to be able to update in the field, not EEPROMs. EEPROMs still typically need to be programmed by a programmer connected directly to the pins, while flash memory does not need this and uses minimal hardware that can be included on the circuit board easily.

The word you're looking for is Emulator (or maybe the aforementioned flash memory), that I have already mentioned, which is essentially what the EBL is, though it has more capabilities than just an emulator. Also, it comes with the cable to communicate with the laptop, so, no, you don't also need the ALDL cable.

The EBL, while a great tool, is not what would be suited to a mileage miser setup. though it can be used for that, it's just overkill. The original ECU, and EEPROM, a programmer and Tuner Pro are all that is needed for less than $100, and would be better suited if the goal is just increased mileage, IMO.

I don't know anything about OBDxx, and really don't care to since I don't have the ability to tune my truck.
What specifically would you need to provide a tune for the op's desired outcome...files...ecm...truck...all of the above?

If you guys want to continue to lob shells in each others direction, take it to Flame Them All. If you come to an agreement...post it up.
You and ODS going back and forth over who's right and who's wrong doesn't help the op at all.

 

[oldeerslayer]

Don't rag on me. BK and I told him the truth in the first few posts. Then someone who is an early EFI nerd comes along and wants to argue semantics about what can or can't be done, or should I say what was done back in the day when MS DOS was what the worlds PC's ran on. Yes, if you buy the chips and equipment, you can learn how to do it yourself. I admitted that a few posts back. Not what the post was about. For all practical purposes, No, there is not a "Chip" to do what the OP wants. That point has never been questioned. The rest of the world has moved on. 33 years of technology later we're arguing about antiques. 20 years ago when there were a few "Chips" available they were for V8's or 4.3's.
And those were a waste of money.

 

[The_Raven]

Whether the world has moved on or not is irrelevant. The OP has an OBD1 system, period, so working within that is fully capable of doing so and getting the OP's desired outcome, with some effort.

Again there's no mail order chip that will do what the OP wants, or at least not very effectively. Yes, leaning out a VE table (somewhat) arbitrarily can increase mileage, because less fuel is being delivered, it may also cause other issues, like rough running, over heating, difficulty driving etc. So there's nothing the OP can provide (to me) to provide a chip to him to do what they want (besides their truck), again, again, again, this will be an iterative process that needs to be done over a long period of time, which is best done by the OP or working with someone locally that has the ability. Again, I don't provide mail order tunes, because there's just too much missed when you can't see, feel, hear what the engine is doing, especially when it's a drivability parameter, and not just a power parameter that is being adjusted. If I was to tune the OP's truck, I would need the truck, for an extended period of time, to test before, during and after adjustments to verify improvements, which again is an iterative process, that doesn't happen quickly. When I tune a vehicle I do try to tune for efficiency even when I have a short period of time with the vehicle, but gaining every last MPG has never been the focus, typically it's been drivability, meaning good manners, good idle and power. MPG as the focus is not typically something that anyone has asked me to tune for, but I try to get the tunes as efficient as possible anyway, so mileage just comes as a natural part of that.

But I disagree that this discussion doesn't help the OP, since I'm pointing out that what they want to do ISN'T a waste of time or money and is completely possible to get their desired outcome, for a pretty modest investment, it will just take some effort on the OP's part is all.

If the OP was to follow other's advice in this thread they would sell their truck and buy something new, because any work performed on the OP's current truck is a waste of time, whereas I know the opposite to be true, but it just isn't as easy as dropping in a magical increase mileage chip.

As someone who tunes OBD1 ECMs I feel that I need to correct incorrect information about it when someone posts it. I have lots of real hands on experience with OBD1 (Even helped start one of the go to forums for OBD1 GM tuning years ago, and help moderate another), I have made combinations work that so called experts said would never work, whereas it seems that other people in this thread don't and are just repeating bad information that has been said by other people with little to no experience with OBD1, that doesn't help anyone looking to tune their OBD1 vehicle. There's no need to throw thousands of dollars and unnecessary hardware at a simple change. I have seen this far too often, I also tune plenty of aftermarket systems and see people spending WAY too much on systems that they will never make full or even use half of the capabilities of that system, because somebody on the interweebs told them they needed to buy the wizbang device to solve all of their issues.

In the end the OP will do what they feel best for themselves, I just can't stand by when bad information is posted misleading people.