S-10 Forum banner

21 - 40 of 78 Posts

·
LS3 Cruisin'
Joined
·
1,764 Posts
Are we talking about the Holley 20-185 mid-mount kit? I''ve got a couple of the old R4 compressors , a few alternators and an S10 power steering pump or two. It's all been sitting for years. I'm not sure these will fit using the 20-131 brackets, looks like Holley has specified certain gm units. The 20-185 is costly but comes with everything and its all new stuff. I'm thinking longevity and ease of installment.
Oooh I stand corrected. I was thinking the 20-131 setups.

The 20-185 looks good, what are you running for rad/fans? If it were me I'd cut the core support and move the rad farther forward to gain more in front room. Even w/ a condenser there's still room to be gained recessing forward. Only exception is if you run an aux-trans cooler infront of the condenser then you're out of room :(.

I will say the one thing I like about that kit is that it uses the longer arm truck style tensioner, not the short arm vette style tensioner. The longer arm generally has better belt control due to the advantage of lever where the short style relies more on spring tension which isn't that linear sadly. The way the routing runs on the 20-185, the belt is going to be nice and short so from a belt perspective definitely like the 20-185.

Only downside I see is that there is less belt-wrap on the crank pulley, but without big horses that won't be an issue I don't think, plus there's always the HD tensioner swap but that can shorten accessory bearing life.
 

·
Randy
Joined
·
267 Posts
In another post Harley made a statement that the Mid Mount Holley system may be 1"-1.5" longer than even the truck set up!!!

Here's the dimension pic from Holley's web site for the drive kit. now to check on the truck or vette drive system to compare

20-180_dim17341.jpg
 

·
Randy
Joined
·
267 Posts
Holley does not give the same type of off the face of engine to the part that sticks out the most. whether that is the water pump nose or the compressor clutch face.
Does any have that dimension or can you get it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,425 Posts
Look at it this way: the entire alternator is in front of the head/block with those Holley mid mount. Even the truck accessories, as pictured below, have the alternator slightly overlapping the head. Calling it a Mid-Mount is slightly misleading as it's not mid between the short and long water pump packaging, but rather it brings all the accessories to the middle (front) of the engine, so you don't have the alternator and Compressor as high mounts. I like that about it, but packaging front to back takes a beating in the process.

335965


Also, even though not an exact correlation to the image of the mid mount, but Holley says this about the factory Pulleys


Holley said:
1) Determine which crank pulley your LS engine is equipped with. Begin by taking a measurement from the crank pulley's front edge (forward face), back to the pulley's crank bolt surface. Three lengths were used on a variety of LS equipped GM vehicles. These are a 1.5-inch deep pulley (37mm), a 2.25-inch (55mm), and a 3-inch (75mm).
If you look at the 6 1/4" measurement and the 3 3/8" measurement I think you can estimate pretty well the crank pulley depth to relate. I'd say it's somewhere around 4/4.5" which is spot on to the +1/1.5" I remember coming up with when I researched that mid-mount setup.
 

·
LS3 Cruisin'
Joined
·
1,764 Posts
Whoa nelly...

She's gonna be tight, I would definitely recess the rad farther forward.

Can't say I am sold on the benefits vs standard high mount in vette offset.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
663 Posts
Discussion Starter #27
Ok, back to the drawing board. I like the mid-mount kit but not if I have to sacrifice forward clearance. I will do some more research on Holley's site and will contact them with a few questions. Now looking at high mount kit #20-137. Is there a diagram showing the forward spacing measurement with the high mount?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
663 Posts
Discussion Starter #28
Ok, back to the drawing board. I like the mid-mount kit but not if I have to sacrifice forward clearance. I will do some more research on Holley's site and will contact them with a few questions. Now looking at high mount kit #20-137. Is there a diagram showing the forward spacing measurement with the high mount? Make that the #20-138.
 

·
LS3 Cruisin'
Joined
·
1,764 Posts
The S10 steering pump doesn't fit **** all for the most part. Nothing Holley makes uses that pump, and most other companies don't either. One of the few companies that do is Kwik, in the long configuration. S10 is a P-Series ham can internal reservoir pump. Most of these kits use a TC-II style pump which was common across many GM vehicles, notably vettes but also found in other applications, its not special or unique or anything like that its just a different style of pump GM used.

Holley hasn't really specialized anything, they brand stuff with their name that is otherwise a dorman part or an OE part or they partner with companies such as ATI for crank pulley dampers etc.

In terms of this LS/LT stuff- the extent of holley's "engineering" is basically the physical brackets themselves, everything that bolts onto those brackets for the most part is a stock part from somewhere else from some other application. They've just made it convenient to get all the parts in a one stop shop, and they can make a little bit of a profit selling a "Holley" branded P/S pulley, idler pulley, w/e, versus the dorman equiv. on amazon.

Yes Holley makes a few things they've engineered themselves eg oil pans, headers etc. but these accessory drive kits basically slap together everything GM used, much the same way as GM slapped **** together based on what ever vehicle it was being shoehorned into.
 

·
LS3 Cruisin'
Joined
·
1,764 Posts
What are your questions?

The forward spacing is based on whether you choose to use a corvette, camaro, or truck crank pulley with the appropriate water pump...

The 20-137 kit is the same kit, you are simply choosing the appropriate spacer "sub" kit, either 21-1, 21-2, or 21-3.
21-1 comes with one spacer to make up for the head offset on the passenger side, the driver side bracket is mounted directly to the driver side cylinder head.
21-2 comes with two spacers, one for both sides, passenger side is thicker than 21-1- for camaro offset.
21-3 comes with two spacers, same as above, for truck offset, and thicker than 21-2.

All kits come with appropriate length hardware.

21-1 provides the most forward clearance. The LS2 P/N 89018052 waterpump with passenger inlet/outlets works best with 21-1 as you don't need to trim or notch the pump it just works.

As far as forward clearance from face of the accessory drive pulleys to CPW radiator, its about 4-1/2". Not bad for getting the ratchet on the tensioner and getting the belt on and off.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,425 Posts
The forward spacing is pretty simple once you stop focusing on the million bracket options.

There are 3 forward distances, well now 4 with Holley's mid mount.

Short (1.5" Crank) - Corvette, CTS-V, G8
Medium (2.5"Crank) - F Body/GTO
Long (3" Crank) - Truck & 2010+ Camaro
Holley Mid Mount (4/4.5" Crank)

Choose which one of those varieties you want and purchase the crank pulley & water pump that correlates.

Decide for or against A/C and where to locate the compressor.

And that should get you all the details you need to decide what accessory bracket setup to run.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
663 Posts
Discussion Starter #32
The forward spacing is pretty simple once you stop focusing on the million bracket options.

There are 3 forward distances, well now 4 with Holley's mid mount.

Short (1.5" Crank) - Corvette, CTS-V, G8
Medium (2.5"Crank) - F Body/GTO
Long (3" Crank) - Truck & 2010+ Camaro
Holley Mid Mount (4/4.5" Crank)

Choose which one of those varieties you want and purchase the crank pulley & water pump that correlates.

Decide for or against A/C and where to locate the compressor.

And that should get you all the details you need to decide what accessory bracket setup to run.
By crank pulley you are referring to the crankshaft damper as mine has no separate pulley on the damper? Overlook my ignorance of LS engines, I'm playing catch up. So a corvette crank damper and the proper Holley brackets / spacers and water pump will give me the maximum spacing? Next question will any LS vette damper fit the 2005 L33 5.3 ? Of course I'll check it but I thought you might know from your research.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
663 Posts
Discussion Starter #33
What are your questions?

The forward spacing is based on whether you choose to use a corvette, camaro, or truck crank pulley with the appropriate water pump...

The 20-137 kit is the same kit, you are simply choosing the appropriate spacer "sub" kit, either 21-1, 21-2, or 21-3.
21-1 comes with one spacer to make up for the head offset on the passenger side, the driver side bracket is mounted directly to the driver side cylinder head.
21-2 comes with two spacers, one for both sides, passenger side is thicker than 21-1- for camaro offset.
21-3 comes with two spacers, same as above, for truck offset, and thicker than 21-2.

All kits come with appropriate length hardware.

21-1 provides the most forward clearance. The LS2 P/N 89018052 waterpump with passenger inlet/outlets works best with 21-1 as you don't need to trim or notch the pump it just works.

As far as forward clearance from face of the accessory drive pulleys to CPW radiator, its about 4-1/2". Not bad for getting the ratchet on the tensioner and getting the belt on and off.
So vette damper, Holley brackets and with right wp gives me maximum clearance?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,425 Posts
By crank pulley you are referring to the crankshaft damper as mine has no separate pulley on the damper? Overlook my ignorance of LS engines, I'm playing catch up. So a corvette crank damper and the proper Holley brackets / spacers and water pump will give me the maximum spacing? Next question will any LS vette damper fit the 2005 L33 5.3 ? Of course I'll check it but I thought you might know from your research.
Crank pulley = crank damper. They're the same thing on the LS. You're really mincing words if you're worried about that haha

Crank pulleys are fairly interchangeable. I don't believe the attachment method changed at all from beginning of Gen III through end of Gen IV. In short yes, the Vette Crank Pulley will bolt onto the 5.3 Truck Crank.

So vette damper, Holley brackets and with right wp gives me maximum clearance?
Yes. The Vette Pulley, matched Holley bracket kit, and any of the short water pumps will give you max clearance. Choose your water pump based on where you want the upper water pump inlet. I went with the CTS-V pump for my latest project because I wanted the inlet forward facing on the passenger side of the engine. It is also a short pump, so it matches the Vette Pulley I also got.
 

·
LS3 Cruisin'
Joined
·
1,764 Posts
Indeed... LS crank pulley/damper/same thing. The factory pulleys have the damper built into them, aftermarket sometimes two piece, sometimes multiple pieces, sometimes one piece. Technically damper is the correct term and all LS use dampers...

A few quick notes- put the pulley on before you put the engine in the truck, otherwise the tool will hit the core support (ask me how I know hahaha).
I use the hawk LS damper installer tool but apparently their website has gone to crap and infected with malware now... proform makes a similar tool:
The tool with the hex end, and thrust bearing work best, the threaded rod + washers and some nuts kinda sucks to work with.
You can use an old crank bolt, lots of guys do, problem is when first starting the damper, the crank bolts only engage a few threads, and more than one poor soul has stripped the threads out of the crank snout end and been pretty sad by that im sure.

The other thing is old crank bolts are a kind of weak bolt anyway, and again more than one schmuck has broken a crank bolt in the snout... have fun with that easy-out...

Tools like the proform generally work better due to full thread depth engagement, and you're not turning the crank snout threads to pull the pulley on.

Ditto for crank bolts... for 23$~ I use ARP's crank bolt since its reusable, and torque to spec, not torque to yield.

Last pro-tip, put black synthetic resistant RTV in the crank keyway. Most (?) factory cranks have a keyway, but factory dampers don't... lol. Makes for a great oil-leak spot. Factory LS dampers are unkeyed and don't need to be keyed. Although pinning the crank with aftermarket dampers such as ATI is very common, its generally not necessary unless you're also driving like an 8 rib SC belt.

Hope that helps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
663 Posts
Discussion Starter #36
Thanks, some good tips there... So, Holley # 20-138 / 21-1 with the suggested water pump and of course a Corvette LS damper is the what I need? Just need some verification, don't want to make the wrong choice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,425 Posts
Yep. That's the combo for max clearance. Don't forget you'll need to buy a Power Steering Pump Reservoir separately. Found that one out the hard way. 🤦‍♀️ And of course they chose the Corvette part, so it's fairly unobtainium used.

Another tip for installing the crank pulley is to put it in the oven at 200° or heat it up with a torch/heat gun. That will expand the opening and allow you to install it further up the taper on the crank. Some guys don't even need the tool with that method.

I made my own installation tool when I swapped the pulley on my CTS-V a few years ago. Bought some all thread and a couple nuts in the correct thread pitch.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
663 Posts
Discussion Starter #38
I want to order while they have the discount, in the mean time I'll check on a vette ls damper and a reservoir. Thanks!
 

·
( . Y . )
Joined
·
936 Posts
Edit...
Late to the party. Repeat info already provided by others. Not sure why it didn't show while I was 1st looking at this thread.

By crank pulley you are referring to the crankshaft damper as mine has no separate pulley on the damper? Overlook my ignorance of LS engines, I'm playing catch up. So a corvette crank damper and the proper Holley brackets / spacers and water pump will give me the maximum spacing? Next question will any LS vette damper fit the 2005 L33 5.3 ? Of course I'll check it but I thought you might know from your research.
Crank pulley = damper.

Corvette accessories will give you the most clearance to the rad regardless which brand of brackets you use. They are based off the balancer/damper.

Any gen III/V vette damper will fit any gen II/IV crank.
 
21 - 40 of 78 Posts
Top