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overthinker extraordinar
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650 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hey Folks,
I ma trying ot replkace the water pump on my 85 2.8 s1o, I have reoved all of the bolts. It WILL NOT BUDGE. I even tried a pipe wrench to see if I could rotate it and break the seal 0 the aluminum fins gave way first. I have used a mirror and checked for any missed bolts, none. I double checked against the new water pump, yep I got them all.

Am I missing something?

Can the housing, timing chain cover be removed with the water pump on it? Maybe I could separate them once the are out of the car.
Thoughts?

time for a break anyways.......
mark
 

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overthinker extraordinar
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650 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
I was able to get the timing chain cover with the water pump attached out of the truck, no problem. I still cannot get the cover and pump to separate. I am thinking of trying a propane torch and ice water to see if I can cause them to break apart.
 

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overthinker extraordinar
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650 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
eureka, I got it.
I had to use a 3/8" extension and push it between a bolt hold and a lip then pry. It took a little oomph, but it popped. There is some kind of sealant on here that I do not recognize. It almost looks like liquid nails. Weird.

I am going to soak this in acetone overnight and see if it will loosen up the old sealant a bit.
 

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Boozebag
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8,995 Posts
That sealant is WAY old skool. It's called "Indian Head" shelac.

It's sort of redish brown and seals HARD. You can still buy it, but it has been overtaken by RTV silicone sealer.
If you had heated the edges of the pump with a propane torch, it would have popped more easily.

BTW, check your timing chain. I bet it's WAY stretched.
 

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overthinker extraordinar
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650 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
That sealant is WAY old skool. It's called "Indian Head" shelac.

It's sort of redish brown and seals HARD. You can still buy it, but it has been overtaken by RTV silicone sealer.
If you had heated the edges of the pump with a propane torch, it would have popped more easily.

BTW, check your timing chain. I bet it's WAY stretched.
yeah it is redish brown. I literally thought it might have been liquid nails and then browned by the oil.
how do you check it? Should it be snug? Or should there be a little play in it?
 

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overthinker extraordinar
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650 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
I just checked and the timing chain is $23. For that I am just going to replace it. The amount of work to get to it justifies doing it now while I have it open.

thanks for the suggestion.
 

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Oops, sorry I pmed you before I saw this thread:haha: the timing chain went on my first blazer 2.8 and I got worse than stranded in a blizzard. A co-worker offered to pull me home-at 50 mph in town with 8" ruts in the road!:eek:
 

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overthinker extraordinar
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650 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
here are a few pics of the mess I have created. I noticed I had about ten degrees movement on the crank before the timing chain was tight enough to begin moving the cam.
I am sure changing it is a good idea now.
 

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4 Year Intermediate Tech
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Indian head is hard to take off with a scraper. I usually use a dremel tool and a stone bit.
 

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Boozebag
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overthinker extraordinar
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Discussion Starter #11
I already bought he cloys "stock type" chain. I will remember this for the next go around, on my next truck:cool:

I just installed the new chain. The old chain had at least ten times as much play as the new one. I am excited to see how differently she runs. I am now waiting for the acetone and gasket remover to work. Maybe tomorrow I'll get it pll put back together.
thanks again,
mark
 

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overthinker extraordinar
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650 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
It has been one of those days. I re-installed the timing chain cover, the water pump, front main seal, and harmonic balancer.

I found an awesome homemade tool to install the front main seal. A 2" piece of PVC pipe. I cut about a 3" long piece on my chop saw so that both ends were square/parallel. It worked like a dream. The harmonic balancer was another story. I got it all the way installed and started to put the crank pulley on, the threads for the bolts are different than the old harmonic balancer. The one that was in the car used M10x1.5. The new one uses M10x1.0. Further, these are grade 9.8 bolts. Nobody in town had them. Well, I did find a dealer with them but they were almost $5 each. I went on line and found a place in Massachusetts that had them for $0.81 each. Shipping was $8 though:rant:
So now the truck is on hole until I get the bolts.............
 

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I feel your pain. I went thru the same hassle on my 83 2.8. Except I noticed the actual timing cover where the lower radiator hose goes in was gummed up and had a crack (causing a leak). So I looked all over for a new cover and all they had out there was the different designed (goodwrench) style timing cover which dorman made. Ended up going on ebay and found a used one that was a reman for 70 bucks. What a time that was. Never again lol....
 

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Boozebag
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8,995 Posts
It has been one of those days. I re-installed the timing chain cover, the water pump, front main seal, and harmonic balancer.

I found an awesome homemade tool to install the front main seal. A 2" piece of PVC pipe. I cut about a 3" long piece on my chop saw so that both ends were square/parallel. It worked like a dream. The harmonic balancer was another story. I got it all the way installed and started to put the crank pulley on, the threads for the bolts are different than the old harmonic balancer. The one that was in the car used M10x1.5. The new one uses M10x1.0. Further, these are grade 9.8 bolts. Nobody in town had them. Well, I did find a dealer with them but they were almost $5 each. I went on line and found a place in Massachusetts that had them for $0.81 each. Shipping was $8 though:rant:
So now the truck is on hole until I get the bolts.............
I don't want to rain on your parade...
but... it is not critical to have grade 9.8 bolts for this application. You could have gone to the local fastener supply house (hardware store) or even a parts supermarket (No zone or oreallys, even no advantage and NAPA - never a part around) and bought the bolts you needed. They usually have at least 8.8s.
There is not a real large amount of torque put on these bolts. Once they are tight, they stay static...
Now... if it is the flywheel or flexplate or a pressure palte... these NEEDS high grade fasteners.
 

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4 Year Intermediate Tech
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Odessa cylinder head supply has brand new non good wrench timing covers for the old 2.8's
 

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thats good to know. when i did mine i was worried as hell thinkin o crap they dont make them new any more? but ill remember that next time somethin happens hopefully not.
 

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overthinker extraordinar
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Discussion Starter #17
I don't want to rain on your parade...
but... it is not critical to have grade 9.8 bolts for this application. You could have gone to the local fastener supply house (hardware store) or even a parts supermarket (No zone or oreallys, even no advantage and NAPA - never a part around) and bought the bolts you needed. They usually have at least 8.8s.
There is not a real large amount of torque put on these bolts. Once they are tight, they stay static...
Now... if it is the flywheel or flexplate or a pressure palte... these NEEDS high grade fasteners.
You got a chuckle out of me with that stuff in red.

I called napa and autozone, all they had was grade 5 bolts. They still wanted $4 for four of them. It is okay, it gives me a chance to work on interior stuff while I wait for the bolts. Got the stereo in today.
 

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Awww..you ain't got shit!
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3,268 Posts
So this was a good thing the cover was stuck then...funny how that works out sometimes.

My chain on my old 2.8 was so freaking worn out, I could not believe it didn't jump time or wasn't hitting the cover...Unbelievable.
 

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overthinker extraordinar
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Discussion Starter #19
Yep, it was a good thing. What I find curious is that the chain was so stretched that it was hitting the cover. Add in the old sealant and a missing valve cover gasket and what do you get?
Not an original motor with only 35k miles on it. At least I am beginning to suspect some foul play.

Can a timing chain stretch enough in 35k miles to be loose enough to be hitting the cover and guards?
 

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Awww..you ain't got shit!
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Missing valve cover gasket? As in not there?? I bet that didn't leak a drop!
 
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