S-10 Forum banner
1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Greetings,
I am sorry that my opening post has to be looking for help, but I am stuck and searched the fourms with no luck in helping my problem.
I have an 89 S-10 standard cab 4x2 with an auto trans. It has a later model 4.3 engine, with TBI injection. Looks like just the short black was used. It has run in the past and will run from time to time for a short time. The PO drove the truck daily for years, then he parked it and it sat for a while, just every now and again he would drive it. I am guessing but most likely it sat the last year. It has run twice in that time. Once for him and once for me.
Right now, I have fuel the timing is close enough to fire and run the engine. The rotor is spinning. I have fuel but I have zero spark. I replaced the battery first thing. So new battery.
First I pulled the distributor to check the pick-up and the module. I found that the distubtor was very tight and probably needed to be replaced, so I bought a new distributor with a new pick up and module already in place. Replaced it still no spark from the coil.
I checked the coil and it tested bad, So I replaced the coil, still no spark. I double checked my wiring and I am getting 12 volts on both the white (121-8) and pink (3-3.0) wire. From reading the diagram, pink is my 12 volt input, the white is my 12 volt from the ECU (?). I guess the coil grounds the system. The other two wires that come from the hall effect switch are good.
I reviewed the book and double checked everything with no luck, so I just threw a new ECU at it. Still no fire….I am stuck, I do not know where to go from here. I have read that there is a crank pickup sensor that can cause it not to run, but I do not think that my engine has this. Also I was getting a steady ECU light that was giving me a code 12, which is no input from Distributor.
I refuse to give up and not figure this out. I have no idea where the white wire goes after it goes into the I/P Cluster (Digital), should it be my ground for the system? If that is not it, can someone please tell me what I need to check or what I could have overlooked?
New Distributor, It turns when I turn the engine over. New Coil and ECU. Wiring looks to be in good shape and nothing seems to be shorted or grounded.

Thanks for the help.

Matt Tharp
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,898 Posts
Have you checked the ECMB fuse as well as the other fuses ? As far
as I recall, when checking for codes 12 is suppose to be there. That's
the RPM signal to the ECM to allow the fuel pump to run. Another
prob might be at the oil pressure connector to the sender. If for
some reason the oil sender is not sending a proper signal to the
ECM that the engine is getting oil pressure, then you'll get a no
start.

OBD1 Codes Retrieval (Pre-1995 Cars and Trucks)


GM 1983-95 vehicles OBD1 codes self-retrieval


As the name implies, you can get the codes for GM cars or trucks yourself if the model of your vehicle is made before 1995, this means as soon as you see “check engine light” in your dash, you can get the code in minutes if you want.

Shown on the left is a picture of the connector where you get the GM OBD1 code.

When you find the adapter connector, use a jumper wire (see red wire above) and connect terminals A and B. Next turn your key on but don't start. Watch your check engine flash the code/s.

EXAMPLE: CODE 12: one long flash and two short flashesCODE 13: one long flash and 3 short flashes.

Note: code 12 is usually the first code you get and just ignore it.Watch the code after code 12, that's what you need.

GM common codes for OBD1 (for vehicles made before 1995)
12 System normal
13 oxygen sensor circuit open
14 coolant sensor high resistance or shorted
15 coolant sensor circuit low or open
16 direct ignition system (DIS) fault in circuit
17 cam position sensor fault
18 crank or cam sensor error
19 crank sensor circuit fault
21 tps sensor out of range
22 tps sensor signal voltage low
23 intake air temp sensor out of range, low
24 vehicle speed (vss) sensor circuit fault
25 air temp sensor sensor out of range, high
26 quad-driver module (computer) circuit #1 fault
27 quad-driver module (computer) 2nd gear circuit
28 quad-driver module (computer) circuit #2 fault
29 quad driver module (computer) 4th gear circuit
31 cam position sensor fault
32 egr circuit fault
33 map sensor signal out of range, high
34 map sensor signal out of range, low
35 idle air control sensor circuit fault
36 ignition system circuit error
38 brake input circuit fault
39 clutch input circuit fault
41 cam sensor circuit fault, igntion control circuit fault
42 electronic spark timing (EST) circuit grounded
43 knock sensor
or electronic spark control circuit fault
44 oxygen sensor lean exhaust
45 oxygen sensor rich exhaust
46 pass-key II circuit or ps.pressure switch circuit fault
47 pcm-bcm data circuit
48 misfire diagnosis
51 calibration error, mem-cal, ecm or eeprom failure
52 engine oil temperature circuit, low temperature indicated
53 battery voltage error or egr or pass-key II circuit
54 egr system failure or fuel pump circuit low voltage
55 a/d converter error or pcm not grounded or lean fuel or frounded reference voltage
56 quad-driver module #2 circuit
57 boost control problem
58 vehicle anti-theft system fuel enable circuit
61 a/c system performance or degraded oxygen sensor signal
62 engine oil temperature high temperature indicated
63 oxygen sensor right side circuit open or map sensor out of range
64 oxygen sensor right side lean exhaust indicated
65 oxygen sensor right side rich exhaust indicated
66 a/c pressure sensor circuit low pressure
67 a/c pressure sensor circuit or a/c clutch circuit failure
68 a/c compressor relay circuit failure
69 a/c clutch circuit head pressure high
70 a/c refrigerant pressure circuit high
71 a/c evaporator temperature sensor circuit low
72 gear selector switch circuit
73 a/c evaporator temperature circuit high
75 digital egr #1 solenoid error
76 digital egr #2 solenoid error
77 digital egr #3 solenoid error
79 vehicle speed sensor (vss) circuit signal high
80 vehicle speed sensor (vss) circuit signal low
81 brake input circuit fault
82 ignition control (IC) 3X signal error
85 prom error
86 analog/digital ecm error
87 eeprom error
99 power management
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yes, I checked all the fuse's and they are good, Only code is 12, no other codes stored but I also replaced the battery. But if that wire or the sensor is going bad that would cause the interment start condition.

I have not checked the oil pressure sending unit. I will look at it today. But going through the no-start no spark trouble tree it only goes into coil, modules and pick up coils. I have always had a warm place in my Heart for GM products and I have an 07 Avalanche now, I am just rusty on my OBD 1 skills, I can fix OBD2 and old school stuff no problem, it is just this OBD 1 that is killing me....

Thanks for the input, I will look and see.
I am also going to remove, clean and replace my battery ground. Just to make sure, I do not think there is any issue, but I want to make 100% sure.
 

·
Registered Hoosier
Joined
·
4,774 Posts
This is a guess, but try cleaning the pcm grounds and stud [at the thermostat housing.]
 

·
i saw what you did there!
Joined
·
3,573 Posts
yeah definitely check the ground wires at the thermostat stud

they are black white strip and a tan beige or brown color

they gotta be grounded very well they are grounds for the ESC knock module and controls ignition timing

if no other luck then make sure 12 volts with key on to the pink wire to the coil

if so then make sure cap and rotor center button not worn down alot of carbon powder in there


and if good there then id have to say try another ICM from another TBI distributor a v6 or v8 doesnt matter what year or engine so as long as TBI and GM they all run the same also the 1990 or so 2.8L and 3.1L ones are same as the 4.3 and v8 ones

they like to fail when hot

and sometimes totally dead even when cold

also wiggle the pink and white smaller wires from the distrib to the coil

sometimes a wire likes to break inside the insulation and you cant tell by looking at them

this happened to my brothers 92 and it took us two weeks to figure it out.,. after a new FP and a billion other parts

ive come across about every possibility for a stalling or not running TBI chevy that there can be

even crazy ones and one of a kind ones. here at the shop or on my own or of relatives vehicles, over the years
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
OK, I finally got a break in the weather today to go out and look at it again. I went and cleaned both the main ground (From the battery) and both PCM wires, a large black wire and I guess a brown and white wire. I even went as far to run a straight wire to ground to make sure it was a good ground. Still no luck on getting it to fire. UGH, Thanks for the help and any more suggestions please let me know. I am not sure what to do next. I will run the full tree again and see what it says.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I forgot, I do have 12 volts on the pink wire, So if I ground the other wire, it should fire if all else is good? At this point I am willing to bypass some things in order to get it to run....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,782 Posts
If you tap the white wire to ground (at the coil, assuming you have 12v on the pink), the coil should fire. The ICM in the distributor should ground the white wire. The ICM will operate independent of the ECM untill it fires up, then the ICM hands over control of the spark to the ECM's timing.

Take a test light ground it to the battery + post, stick the other end into the white wire on the coil, crank it over. If it flashes you should be getting spark. Check the COIL WIRE to the CAP also.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I am getting 12 volts on both the pink and white wires, no flashing from the wire wire when I hook it up to the + post....Still no spark, Double checked, battery voltage to make sure it was still good and strong, Grounds...

I was about to set fire to the truck today, but I need a challenge and this is turning out to be one. I need to get this thing running quick, I have another car in route and this one needs to be gone by the time it shows up....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,898 Posts
Wouldn't be a pisser if it was in the ign swt or wiring going down
the column to somewhere ? I don't recall exactly, but maybe a
fusible link that goes to the alt ? Are you sure both connectors
and wiring are plugged into the dist ? Any chance wiring somewhere
isn't pinched ? Is it an auto ? Maybe the neutral safety swt is shot ?

I'm just guessing at this, of course. I don't know if this will and it's for a
93, but still the same deal. Sorry it's so small..

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,782 Posts
looks like an autozone.com diagram.

Also, if you have 12v at pink on coil, the ICM could be toast, or perhaps the P/U coil.....
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
OK, silly question what is the ICM? I went to look for a HEI out of a early 4.3 engine, just remove all the old and replace with the HEI but non of the local yards had any. I will search for the ICM and see what I can find out. Thanks again for the help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
ICM, Got it I have replaced it when i replace the whole distributor and my old one tested fine, I ran it 5-6 time to make sure it got warm and it tested good each time...Wonder if there is any issue with a HEI and the TBI?
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top