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Discussion Starter #1
is it worth getting headers for my truck if i have no intentions of adding NOS or a SC later on?

right now i have a gen 2 intake and 2.5" flow with 2.5" pipe all the way to the back.

i am getting a custom y pipe made soon at a muffler shop and i was wondering if i should go with headers as well?

chances are the only other mods in the future will be a computer programmer(waiting for superchips to release their 03 model, pullies and maybe 3.73s.

if i do get headers i will be getting the JBAs as theyre the only one that offer a specifc 2003 part number that is smog legal, i live in CA so smog is an issue. if edelbrock made a TES application for my truck id get that and use their y pipe, but they dont, so im not.

also is it worth getting their silver or titanium ceramic coating? if it helps performace wise ill get it (even though its an extra $150) but if its just for looks and durability i really dont need it, rust isnt a problem here.

so whaddya guys think, headers worth it? or not worth it on a truck that wont be seeing nos or forced induction
 

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I agree it is worth it for the power. But what really sucks is the install and if you wind up having a leak when your all done. Been there and done that
 

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Gibsons stainless headers are prone to being a problem. Stainless reacts wierd under extreme heats where headers play, that and the flange on those are kinda weak.

Now you say your adding a larger Y-pipe I assume?? At that point headers really arent going to give you the full potential, unless the ypipe is kept to a max of 2 inch internal.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
964pt3 said:
Now you say your adding a larger Y-pipe I assume?? At that point headers really arent going to give you the full potential, unless the ypipe is kept to a max of 2 inch internal.

yes, i was going to go 2.25" like SLPs,

bump for more opinions.
 

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Adding a larger internal diameter Y-pipe negates some of the effect headers are doing. With seperate pipes off each cylinder it helps to scavange the exhaust quicker out of the cylinder and create speed since its unimpeded, and then if the y-pipe is larger than the outlet on the header, it allows a expansion to happen slowing the movement, hence disrupting the scavaging/speed the headers were creating. Yeah this type setup can at times make more power up top, but we have no up top really with a cap of 4400-4800 with and the intake and cam currently.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
964pt3 said:
Adding a larger internal diameter Y-pipe negates some of the effect headers are doing. With seperate pipes off each cylinder it helps to scavange the exhaust quicker out of the cylinder and create speed since its unimpeded, and then if the y-pipe is larger than the outlet on the header, it allows a expansion to happen slowing the movement, hence disrupting the scavaging/speed the headers were creating. Yeah this type setup can at times make more power up top, but we have no up top really with a cap of 4400-4800 with and the intake and cam currently.
so whats the best choice?

1. just adding a custom y pipe, say 2.25" and stick with stock manifolds.

or

2. add the headers and keep stock y pipe

or

3. add the headers and do a custom y pipe but smaller, say 2" or 1.75" (i think stock is 1 5/8" no?)
 

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WHAT DO YOU WANT
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go with the headers from gibson the other guy doesn't know what he is talking about has he seen them or felt them in his hands and the flange being to weak that B.S. be that when you look at it and flange of it is about 1/2 inch thick of stainless steel it's pretty damn strong. and the other thing is about the heat on the headers themself the only thing that i have seen from all of my buddies the discoloring of the pipes and that's it. and im getting 2.5 inch dual exhaust.
 

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Dare
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Why would you put headers on a v6 if its not supercharger or running nos? A v6 needs backpressure run properly, and not including enough back pressure for the proper readings for the 02 sensors.
 

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streettrucks96 said:
go with the headers from gibson the other guy doesn't know what he is talking about has he seen them or felt them in his hands and the flange being to weak that B.S. be that when you look at it and flange of it is about 1/2 inch thick of stainless steel it's pretty damn strong. and the other thing is about the heat on the headers themself the only thing that i have seen from all of my buddies the discoloring of the pipes and that's it. and im getting 2.5 inch dual exhaust.
Look Ive spent the last 25 years machining every metal out there, fixing the machines that run them, whether is be formed, forged, machined or compressed. I dont need Gibson stainlesses in my hand in the least to tell you stay away. Stainless while it has decent tenisle strength, its considered a soft metal. Soft metals are prone to expansion and contraction. The one thing you dont want in a header is that! It then will not hold a seal very well cause the torque on the header bolts is under constant change, also this expansion and contraction is pulling and pushing the headers tubes from each other adding to a seal proble. Thickness really doenst apply here for strength. Now carbon based alloys used in header manufacture are left in a soft, non hardened form. Heat escaping the exhaust does not get to a temp that will actually harden the material. Alloy non hard doesnt have a very good expansion and contraction rate, good for a seal. Now Stainless on the other hand will hardened just like being in a oven/furnace with the temps of exhaust gas. See how it discolors??? That is making it hard, hard = Brittle in not kept under control which it wont be, addint to problems later.

Forget the name Stainless, its a gimmick for the most part. People think stainless means it wont rot, rust etc, for the most part no it wont. That meaning is not used in metalurgy to the extent we the people think. Some forms of stainless will in fact rust, some are magnetic is high amounts like normal steel and so on. The kind of stainless which is stainless, also very strong, also will not expand and contract much more then metals, your dentist and doctor uses!! You cant without high amounts of cost, bend it, hold shapes well and so on, BELIEVE me there not using that for exhaust, there using the cheap over the counter 300 series and 409 series of stainless tubing. The crap no one else really wants.


1. just adding a custom y pipe, say 2.25" and stick with stock manifolds.

or

2. add the headers and keep stock y pipe
or
add the headers and do a custom y pipe but smaller, say 2" or 1.75"

Last one is the best at 2 inch internal. It'll keep torque nearer to normal like the other setups you list, aid in the exhaust size for the mid to upper levels!

Now the NA deal. Well Ive seen it all to often, why NA?? Tell me why not?? Forced induction has abundance pressure to overcome alot of the exhaust restriction on its own even though its adding CFM to it. NA what can help overcome the #1 area of the air out theory. Manifolds are the very first and largest restriction within the exhaust setup. Does you very little good if the area behind the major disrupter gets dealy with (Catbacks). Think about that!!! If the exhaust cant get to the area of the cat back properly with more speed, what are you really gaining. NA benefits better overall more having headers vs forced induction!!
 

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headers 2.25" y and 3" single......or 2.5" single if you plan on never adding a a power adder. As for keeping the stock y-pipe w/ headers that is just plain stupid. Look at what guys with fast trucks are doing.


Xtremelow ran a 15.38 with a heavy extended cab xtreme bagged on 20's with just a cold air intake and Edelbrock headers and 2.25" y with 3" single. I guess it works alright.
 

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hellbents10 said:
headers 2.25" y and 3" single......or 2.5" single if you plan on never adding a a power adder. As for keeping the stock y-pipe w/ headers that is just plain stupid. Look at what guys with fast trucks are doing.


Xtremelow ran a 15.38 with a heavy extended cab xtreme bagged on 20's with just a cold air intake and Edelbrock headers and 2.25" y with 3" single. I guess it works alright.

There is a big difference here in what you posted. Edelbrocks system is complete with the Y pipe so its design before building takes that into account. JBA's and Gibsons were designed to retain the stock Y, but being the Y is smaller than the outlet, increasing the outlet to mathc the collector is a good idea. I ran a 15.42 using JBA's, 2 inch internal y and a 2 1/2 back on a 4x4 extended cab, yeah I had some more mods but even outweighed a normal extended by over 800 pounds. The track I ran at was cool, sub 50 degrees out and has a slight downhill to it, that really doesnt prove anything. Were splitting hairs over a few ponies you wouldnt even see, but adding high costs to it, so is it for the street where the range in rpm running presents having more availabe to offer, or are you track building it where, screw all of it and run open!!
All you do adding larger system than required on the street is moving your torque curves and horsepower peaks to higher levels/flattening them out, instead of where 95% of the driving takes place!! I mean thats your decision ultimately if you want that!!
 

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Oh for the 1/4 time game again. I know most dont like the forum crap, but Mic Rulz and Cartman both went to the track a few years back. Both had the same year I believe ,extended cab Xtreme's, both had hard covers on the bed, Mic had a hood and a Airaid intake, Cart had a exhaust cat back, Airaid intake, GMS MAF and a few other mods. Mic ran a 15.6 while Cart ran a best of 16.1, same day, same track, yeah Cart weighs more than Mic, but not that much!! So times?? what do they mean, really nothing. If you have a starting stock time and then increase it with mods , testing it one at a time,proving they do work better than stock, the rest is conjecture at best!! So you may have actually harmed the run, but you wouldnt know it and believe maybe one of those mods was the major difference and it wasnt, it actually slowed you but cant prove one way or another. And adding different levels of people, conditions etc all play a part so this he ran that, well HE DID, not you!!
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
joshuadare said:
Why would you put headers on a v6 if its not supercharger or running nos? A v6 needs backpressure run properly, and not including enough back pressure for the proper readings for the 02 sensors.
why would you put headers on a 350 if its notsupercharged or running nitrous? a 350 also needs back pressure to run good, no? basically what im saying is plenty of people put em on 350s, and its for the better..

anyways the hookers i had on my 72 gave a good performance increase. i do understand back pressure is needed, especially on computer controlled vehicles. thus i chose to stay at 2.5" and to run pipe all the way to the rear of the truck.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
hellbents10 said:
Xtremelow ran a 15.38 with a heavy extended cab xtreme bagged on 20's with just a cold air intake and Edelbrock headers and 2.25" y with 3" single. I guess it works alright.
i noticed that and was very impressed with that time from an extended cab.

but he was using a 160 thermostat right? i dont plan on running a 160 though, unless im just going to the track for a day.

also did he use any slicks to get that time, because i was shocked that a heavy ext cab could run such a good time with simply an intake and full exhaust. hell my reg cab with intake and catback was only able to run 15.68 on a g tech, and given i get the same mods i should be at least 2-3 tenths faster with my lighter weight, id definetly be happy if adding headers and y pipe brought me down to a 15.1
 

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I agree with 96. I have not held Gibsons in my hands, but I've
been real close to em. Gibson is about 30 min's from me. I've
been to their place in Corona. As far as NA, I'm running a set
of JBA'S, a stock y-pipe as mine came with 2.25" on the banks
and 2.50 merge, a hi-flow cat and 2.50 out to a Spintech muff
then 2.25 dual from there. I have a Jet stg II chip and a free
flow intake. I have 3.42 gears. Now with all that you'd think
the snap form off throttle would be bad, but in fact pretty
quik. I do have probs from 2100/2200 to 2700 with it reacting
slow, but from 2700 on it just flat gets it and I'm pegged before
before it goes into OD.

So the back pressure thing may play a factor, maybe not. You only
really need 1# maybe 2# of BP anyway. If you really want it to
go, get a good reflash, do the headers and exhaust, and go with
3.72 gears. Off the line it'll get going quik and still can get decent
fuel mileage if ya drive half way decent. OD works good.

Oh and I believe COATED headers are the way to go. Mine if I get
something on em, I just wipe off. They've stayed the nice semi
polished effect you get from thermal coating and the engine area
is cooler too.
 

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extremlow made that run with a 195 stat and slicks. He ran a 15.45 on the 20's with a 2.18 60ft vers. a 2.101 on the slicks. He ran a 17.5 when it was stock. Take into account that it was almost 40 degrees warmer the day he ran the 17.5. So he ran well on the 20's not much of a improvement from the slicks. Not enough power at the time to take advantage. Now he has enough though.

All I am saying is that the exuast set up that me and him are running greatly improved our times. I also got 26 mpg on the way to the s-series nats with my truck and all the mods I have including the 160 stat.

I don't know about anyone else but when I want power is when I have the pedel down not just driving at part throttle. cause if I am at part throtlle obviously I am in no hurry. Also when you are at full throttle (when the power is nedded) you spend most of your time above 4000rpm. If you want somethin that makes a lot of power that low in the rpms get somethin with a durmax or powerstroke.
 
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