bolt on sfa swap
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I go to that site all the time. Lots of sweet trucks! My only concern with going sfa right now is money and if its worth doing to my Jimmy. Usually those guys buy a beet up s-10 for $1000 or less and go crazy. I bought mine for $8,000, so all the stock parts on it are working great. Its too bad I didn't know about this sfa swap until after I bought it and started customizing it.
If I knew there was a market for stock s-10 parts (front and rear axles, 4.3 engine, etc) I'd have a better time deciding.
I just wish I had $500 for the kid thats selling his 5" trailmaster lift for that. Wishful thinking though.
-=SHADES=-
If I knew there was a market for stock s-10 parts (front and rear axles, 4.3 engine, etc) I'd have a better time deciding.
I just wish I had $500 for the kid thats selling his 5" trailmaster lift for that. Wishful thinking though.
-=SHADES=-
This may sound stupid or not make sence but don't do it if you don't have the money to do it. That's what I'm in the middle of doing. It sucks running so much lift with tiny tires, bad shocks, bad steering, and driveline vibrations. If you want to do the swap, save up about $1500 and start buying the parts before you touch your truck. The $1500 is assuming you would not buy a kit and do the work yourself. It does leave money for tires and screw ups. Planning is the key to getting a project like this done.
Im wondering what kind of 4wheeling your doing that needs the sfa in the first place?
Im new here and I dont want to piss anyone off so hear me out a tad first.
If your rock crawling Id go sfa in a heart beat and completly understand why you want to swap. But if mud and dirt is your game then Id never change. Ive pulled I dont know how many high centered sfa trucks off ruts with my independant s10 blazer and never wanted sfa after seeing the maintenance nightmares they have got thru and those chunks stuck on the ruts. Those few extra inches up front and center have gotten me out of spots Id never of been able to get thru with a sfa. When they are busy packing front hubs between weekends rides, Im riding around enjoying the no maintenance. Again just my opinion and honestly asking not trying to start a flame thing or anything.
Thanks.
Im new here and I dont want to piss anyone off so hear me out a tad first.
If your rock crawling Id go sfa in a heart beat and completly understand why you want to swap. But if mud and dirt is your game then Id never change. Ive pulled I dont know how many high centered sfa trucks off ruts with my independant s10 blazer and never wanted sfa after seeing the maintenance nightmares they have got thru and those chunks stuck on the ruts. Those few extra inches up front and center have gotten me out of spots Id never of been able to get thru with a sfa. When they are busy packing front hubs between weekends rides, Im riding around enjoying the no maintenance. Again just my opinion and honestly asking not trying to start a flame thing or anything.
Thanks.
a couple reasons
sfa is bulletproof, ifs, can be rather weak, especially at extreme angles, and too much torque
you are able to run more lift, much more easily
articulation!
simplicity, changing even a cv on the trail would be a major pita
sfa is bulletproof, ifs, can be rather weak, especially at extreme angles, and too much torque
you are able to run more lift, much more easily
articulation!
simplicity, changing even a cv on the trail would be a major pita
I carry a spare axle in the back when I go riding. Actually I usually just leave it in there. Takes about 30 minutes to change.
Wasnt too long ago a friend hit a stump and it took the cap off his hub. We spent most of the day pulling him back to the main road cause without a locker up front he got stuck at all the good spots.
Ive never had to work on my truck when offroading front end wise in the 9 years ive had it. I just dont feel they are as fragile as alot of people say.
But if ya are rock crawling though the articulation would matter and I would switch if that was what I was doing with my ride.
But were all mud here. The counties even named clay country where I live
Wasnt too long ago a friend hit a stump and it took the cap off his hub. We spent most of the day pulling him back to the main road cause without a locker up front he got stuck at all the good spots.
Ive never had to work on my truck when offroading front end wise in the 9 years ive had it. I just dont feel they are as fragile as alot of people say.
But if ya are rock crawling though the articulation would matter and I would switch if that was what I was doing with my ride.
But were all mud here. The counties even named clay country where I live
If all your SFA S10's don't turn tight, you have something out of line in your steering geometry.
I will agree that IFS is good for sand and street. That's it. To fit the bigger tires for mud, and to get the articulation for the rocks, go SFA. If you look at Mark Hall's big truck, he has coil springs in front. Takes 5 minutes to change them out. With two sets of springs, two sets of spring rates, he can be soft for the rocks, or stiff for the mud. It's all what you want out of a truck, and then knowing how to go about it. Don't count anything out until you know with out a doubt that something will not work.
I've been all around the wheelin world now. I started in sand, worked my way to the mud, and now I'm into rocks and mountain trials. I'm on 6 or 7 different BBS's. Many of these guys have seen me around quite frequently. The one thing I have learned in my years is: Someone has done it. Someone found a way to make it work, or they found out that it didn't work for chit. That's why we have these BBS's. To ask, to share, and to educate each other so we don't waste time or money on something that will not work or possibly be unsafe.
I used to think I knew quite a bit. Then I shut my mouth and found out I didn't know much. The second best peice of advice I can give: Always listen to the guys with first hand experience. Don't rely on your plummer's sister's ex-fiance the knew a guy that thought he remembered that something was tried way back in 1973 that turned out to be bullchit. Talk to guys like Jamus. They have been there, and know what works.
I will agree that IFS is good for sand and street. That's it. To fit the bigger tires for mud, and to get the articulation for the rocks, go SFA. If you look at Mark Hall's big truck, he has coil springs in front. Takes 5 minutes to change them out. With two sets of springs, two sets of spring rates, he can be soft for the rocks, or stiff for the mud. It's all what you want out of a truck, and then knowing how to go about it. Don't count anything out until you know with out a doubt that something will not work.
I've been all around the wheelin world now. I started in sand, worked my way to the mud, and now I'm into rocks and mountain trials. I'm on 6 or 7 different BBS's. Many of these guys have seen me around quite frequently. The one thing I have learned in my years is: Someone has done it. Someone found a way to make it work, or they found out that it didn't work for chit. That's why we have these BBS's. To ask, to share, and to educate each other so we don't waste time or money on something that will not work or possibly be unsafe.
I used to think I knew quite a bit. Then I shut my mouth and found out I didn't know much. The second best peice of advice I can give: Always listen to the guys with first hand experience. Don't rely on your plummer's sister's ex-fiance the knew a guy that thought he remembered that something was tried way back in 1973 that turned out to be bullchit. Talk to guys like Jamus. They have been there, and know what works.
BTW... Stagewest was the company doing the SFA kits. They quit because they could not keep up with demand. Not because of anything else. No one else has a kit available on the market as of now. Several companies are in the development stages, but nothing has materialized yet. Off-Road Unlimited was supposed to adapt their fullsize kit to work with SFA I know for sure. But that was back when their fullsize kit was first introduced. The market is really hit and miss. Your really are better off to cut and weld your own kit. That way you have more options instead of using the axle their kit was designed for.
My two cents.
EDIT: I realize I may be speaking prematurely. If someone can present proof that their is a kit on the market at a fair price and quality, I will make a public apology.
My two cents.
EDIT: I realize I may be speaking prematurely. If someone can present proof that their is a kit on the market at a fair price and quality, I will make a public apology.
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778 Posts
SCOTT!
good to see you here man. later
SHADES have a look at this http://www.s10forum.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Pictures&file=index&do=showpic&pid=122&orderby= this is MARKS truck that FYR was talking adout.
good to see you here man. later
SHADES have a look at this http://www.s10forum.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Pictures&file=index&do=showpic&pid=122&orderby= this is MARKS truck that FYR was talking adout.
Yeah I hate listening to someone with a closed mind that claims to know it all
Always good to get a 2nd opinion on stuff....
As for the sfa and it not turning as tight I was referring to my full size blazer 4x4, my full size chevy 77 4x4 pickup, and my ton and 1/2 full size suburban rig. Not going to group my 46 willis in this cause 18 wheelers turn tighter than that damn thing does
My 84 s10 turns alot sharper than they do. Course that could be the factory stops on them but thats 3 factory 4x4's sfa's to one ifs 4x4. Figured the odds were there for that to be a good rule of thumb. Course I wouldnt have a prob believing there were some out there that turned tighter than my sfa's im using as a referance but best I remember when I read up on the stops setting you were suposed to let them turn to tight for the possibility of snapping the output yoke.
Research time......
Oh yes here we go.
"To avoid possible damage to the universal joints on the front axles of 4-wheel drive vehicles, it is advisable to check the turning angle. . ."
"The turning angle of 'Jeep' Universal models was changed effective with the following vehicle serial numbers: CJ-3B, 57348-35326; CJ-5, 57548-48284; CJ-6, 57748-12497. All models CJ-2A, CJ-3A, and vehicles with serial numbers lower than the above should have a turning angle of not more than 23 (degrees) *** both left and right*** (emphasis mine) if equipped with Bendix joints, and not more than 29 (degrees) if equipped with Rzeppa joints. On vehicles with serial numbers higher than the above, the turning angle should not be more than 27-1/2 (degrees)."
Seems like this stuff was in the gm shop manuals I had bought when I doing the tcase change out deal on my 77 before we
put the 44's on it.
But again I was just guessing from the difference in turning ability my 84 s10 has that ifs rocks for tight turns. I like it for a daily driver for this.
Always good to get a 2nd opinion on stuff....
As for the sfa and it not turning as tight I was referring to my full size blazer 4x4, my full size chevy 77 4x4 pickup, and my ton and 1/2 full size suburban rig. Not going to group my 46 willis in this cause 18 wheelers turn tighter than that damn thing does
My 84 s10 turns alot sharper than they do. Course that could be the factory stops on them but thats 3 factory 4x4's sfa's to one ifs 4x4. Figured the odds were there for that to be a good rule of thumb. Course I wouldnt have a prob believing there were some out there that turned tighter than my sfa's im using as a referance but best I remember when I read up on the stops setting you were suposed to let them turn to tight for the possibility of snapping the output yoke.
Research time......
Oh yes here we go.
"To avoid possible damage to the universal joints on the front axles of 4-wheel drive vehicles, it is advisable to check the turning angle. . ."
"The turning angle of 'Jeep' Universal models was changed effective with the following vehicle serial numbers: CJ-3B, 57348-35326; CJ-5, 57548-48284; CJ-6, 57748-12497. All models CJ-2A, CJ-3A, and vehicles with serial numbers lower than the above should have a turning angle of not more than 23 (degrees) *** both left and right*** (emphasis mine) if equipped with Bendix joints, and not more than 29 (degrees) if equipped with Rzeppa joints. On vehicles with serial numbers higher than the above, the turning angle should not be more than 27-1/2 (degrees)."
Seems like this stuff was in the gm shop manuals I had bought when I doing the tcase change out deal on my 77 before we
put the 44's on it.
But again I was just guessing from the difference in turning ability my 84 s10 has that ifs rocks for tight turns. I like it for a daily driver for this.
Got a related question
I got a bite on a 1991 s10 blazer with the 4.3 v6 with auto trans and super clean body cheap.
Problem is its 2wheel drive. I wanted it for the wife, she's runnin off with my blazer all the time and she prefers automatic so its a good deal but I need to change it over to 4wheel drive.
Now in this situation which is easier and or cheaper, sfa or ifs?
On the full size trucks Ive done its always been a breeze because gm had already cut the holes for the 4x4 front end stuff. Ill I had to do was drop the 2wheel frontend crossmember and aframes and bolt up the hangers and springs. But on an s10 that would of had ifs are there going be mount points for the torsion bars and all? Would it been cheaper to go with the factory type front end or sfa setup? Ive got the welding equipment to do the sfa deal on it but if its going to be easier to get the normal stuff and cheaper Id just do ifs then.
Whats the way to go?
I got a bite on a 1991 s10 blazer with the 4.3 v6 with auto trans and super clean body cheap.
Problem is its 2wheel drive. I wanted it for the wife, she's runnin off with my blazer all the time and she prefers automatic so its a good deal but I need to change it over to 4wheel drive.
Now in this situation which is easier and or cheaper, sfa or ifs?
On the full size trucks Ive done its always been a breeze because gm had already cut the holes for the 4x4 front end stuff. Ill I had to do was drop the 2wheel frontend crossmember and aframes and bolt up the hangers and springs. But on an s10 that would of had ifs are there going be mount points for the torsion bars and all? Would it been cheaper to go with the factory type front end or sfa setup? Ive got the welding equipment to do the sfa deal on it but if its going to be easier to get the normal stuff and cheaper Id just do ifs then.
Whats the way to go?
The difference in turning radius might be in the track width, S-10 vs those fullsize rigs. I don't know though, I've never payed too much attention to it. I have a Wrangler dana 30 under my Blazer, soon to be dana 44, and I see no difference in the turning radius. Except for the pitman arm rubbing on one side on a left over IFS crossmember, need to grind that.
Fyrman's right, the BBS's are the best thing I've come across for info. ABout 98% of my knowledge came from them. Then experience backed most of everything I read up. Just be careful and take what the other guys say for what it usually is, a stranger giving you advice. Most times they'll be absolutely right, but other times........
Fyrman's right, the BBS's are the best thing I've come across for info. ABout 98% of my knowledge came from them. Then experience backed most of everything I read up. Just be careful and take what the other guys say for what it usually is, a stranger giving you advice. Most times they'll be absolutely right, but other times........
crowz said:Got a related question
I got a bite on a 1991 s10 blazer with the 4.3 v6 with auto trans and super clean body cheap.
Problem is its 2wheel drive. I wanted it for the wife, she's runnin off with my blazer all the time and she prefers automatic so its a good deal but I need to change it over to 4wheel drive.
Now in this situation which is easier and or cheaper, sfa or ifs?
Whats the way to go?
SFA bar none. With a 2 wheel drive, half of the axle work is already done. What I mean by that is, the upper coil spring buckets are already in position. They are where you will want them. Everything else is just getting things to line up to those upper buckets. Go back and click on that link for Mark Hall's truck. That one started out as a 4x4, but he dropped the IFS out and used a Dana 44 out of a coil sprung First gen Bronco. The old ones that were boxy looking... Anywho... The coil spring swap is the prefered method. Most people are generally more happy with them. However, it is not the easiest swap to do. Leaf spring swaps are. All you have to worry about on those swaps is getting the mounts for the shackles welded in and braced, then lining up the steering.
Research it a little bit more, get registered to www.s10-4x4.org , check out all your options. Then, make up your own mind.
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well as a side note, fabritech is coming out with a solid axle swap for our trucks, expected to be this spring, it will be a four link coil spring setup with a jeep axle. if you want to check it out, go to www.setstr8.com
hope this helps:scary: :evilg: :scary:
hope this helps:scary: :evilg: :scary:
ruff_ryder said:
SetStr8 Has been saying that for quite awhile. I don't buy it. There was no talk of a kit from Stagewest. It just showed up in the magazine one month and they literally could not keep up with the demand for the kit. They didn't have the facilities, or the man power to keep up with orders. They are, after all, just a small local 4x shop in Colorado. OffRoadUnlimited told many of us back when they introduced their fullsize bolt-on SFA kit that they were in the process of doing the same for the S10. A few inquiries later, they told us we were S.O.L.
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