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Randy
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312 Posts
Where are you? 4x4 S10 & T10 are everywhere here around St. louis
 

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Discussion Starter #22
I live in near Okie City. There are alot here for 2wd but none for 4wd. Don't know where it is coming from..
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Found all the receipts for the tranny work since my time of purchase in 2002 and found every time just the 3/4 clutch pack was replaced. The tranny has never been totally rebuilt or crate tranny put in.
That means that 2/3 clutch pack has around 260K on it before it failed. It has has 3 3/4 clutch packs replaced in it for the same 260K.

Bill
 

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Randy
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312 Posts
Repeated 3-4 failure has been tracked to one of 3 things.
1) a bad MAF sensor
2) a leak in the drum itself
3) 3rd circuit in the valve body
Just to clarify the drive elements if a 4L60E from front to back are.
Reverse input drum
2-4 band.
Overrun clutch
Forward clutch
Input sprag (holding element)
3-4 clutch
Low roller (holding element)
Low/reverse clutch
There is no 2-3 clutch in a 4L60E.
There is a post on MAF sensors in the LSX section if I remember correctly. Could be in transmission section or it could be the Ls1tech forum. It would be worth the time to read up.
The input drum is a commonly replaced/ repaired item for the leak.
Sonnax makes several items for the 3rd circuit leaks and a very good article on it too.
 

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if you havent started I would look at the GM reman
100k warranty is hard to beat.
Tranzman,your price with hard parts still puts it in less than half the rebuilders price.
I used Sonnax smartShell on the newest 4L70e rebuild,it was only a few dollars more than the beast
and solves the thrust bearing problem too.
 

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Randy
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312 Posts
I hear you about both points. Race or performance builds can get expensive. I'm doing a F-body with a 4L79 input drum now. His bill is $2400.
 

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Randy
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312 Posts
I hear you about both points. Race or performance builds can get expensive. I'm doing a F-body with a 4L79 input drum now. His bill is $2400.
 

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Randy
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312 Posts
$559 for the drum and $275 for the hardened shaft!!!
 

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so for $2400 you are building what sounds like a stage 4.
allowing $500 for R&R,fluid etc(which is very generous)
its still cheaper.
To be honest how many forward drum and input shaft failures have you seen?
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Tranzman, on your post about the MAF Sensor, how do you check to see if it is bad and if it is, how does that effect the tranny to burn up the clutch packs??

TIA,,

Bill
 

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Randy
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312 Posts
The computer uses the MAF to calculate load on the vehicle. That load % is what the computer uses to raise line pressure. When that load % is off because of a dirty or bad MAF. Transmission line pressure may not raise fast enough for the load. the computer constantly monitors the MAF electrical circuits but can't always set codes for scenarios inside the code perimeters.
maybe we can get @98Sonosls to chime in here about MAF's
On testing MAF's it may be better if you look at some YouTube videos of guys showing how to do it.
 

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Not completely unrelated but my story on this.
Neighbor kid gets a 99 Tahoe 4x4 with trailer towing package,when it was about 2 yrs old.
Army transfers him to Arizona so he uses Dads enclosed car trailer to tote all his belongings.
About halfway there the trans goes out. Stuck on the road hes held ransom for a high priced rebuild
but the guy gives him a 3 yr warranty.
As its customary to constantly move while in military,a little over a year later hes transferred to Carolina.
He uses same trailer filled with belongings and makes the trip almost all the way there and trans craps out again.
With warranty the trans is rebuilt locally(over 1K from where it was first rebuilt).
Again about a year later the move was made back to Arizona,same trailer in tow, makes it to Arizona,but while delivering the then emptied trailer back to Fla
it then starts acting up again.When it arrived here,it was put in shop authorized by first rebuilder.At the same time it had begun running very poorly.
A new injection spider was installed along with intake gaskets,distributor etc.First rebuilder refused to honor warranty again,told him to stick it.
Local shop rebuilt and suggested looking elsewhere to a root cause. Along about this time I finally said enough and dove in to help.
One of the first things I noticed was the K&N air filter the kid had installed many years earlier. Upon checking the MAF it was polluted with K&N filter oil.
I remembered when my son worked as a GM tech,he had mentioned the dealer policy was to void warranty if K&N oil had polluted the MAF.A simple cleaning
of MAF cured all the driveability issues.Tahoe has been happy with the last rebuilt trans for many years now,and stock air cleaner is back on it.
I might also mention that trailer/truck combo was below the GVW rating.As Tranzman has mentioned the Vortecs use the MAF for calibration of pretty much everything.
If its screwed up,then nothing is happy.Im amazed at how few shops actually know this.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
What is the life expectancy of a MAF sensor?. I bought my truck brand new in 2002 and now has 159K on it. All the tranny problems started in 2010 with the first bad 3/4 clutch pack.

I , too, have the K&N oil based air filter but it was not installed until after the tranny issues started.
I will check the videos on YouTube and see if that helps. Maybe I should clean the MAF Sensor when I get my truck back from the shop.

Bill
 

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LS3 Cruisin'
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1,825 Posts
For the MAF to be that bad/dirty/faulty to be causing the trans line pressures not to rise fast enough I'd expect the MAF to be throwing a code since the engine uses MAF to calculate VE with the o2's... on throttle acceleration if the MAF was dirty/faulty, it should be causing lean/rich conditions to occur. Any basic scan tool plugged in to the OBD II port will show airflow in g/s, a basic "test" is just to rev the engine a bit, and if you're seeing rise and fluctuation in the airflow g/s reading, and then a return to a baseline at idle, the sensor is likely working fine, if there's a significant time delay e.g. a couple seconds, or it doesn't respond much at all then it is likely dirty/faulty (although again typically this throws a MAF p0 code on any LS1B PCM truck e.g. 00' forward).

I did read the temperatures part but wasn't exactly clear under what scenarios the problem is occurring (seems hot), and line pressure is modified by trans temp as well. A faulty trans temp sensor could also be a possible culprit. The trans temp sensor is integral to the transmission pressure sensor bolted to the underside of the transmission valve body. Faulty or dirty pressure sensors can also cause intermittent behaviors… replacing the pressure sensor is an easy/cheap thing to do before pulling the trans and doing a complete rebuild/replacement etc.

The MAF can be cleaned but an electronics cleaner needs to be used, CRC makes one, readily available at most auto stores. Don't use solvents like brake cleaner etc, they leave a residue on the wires which can cause erroneous readings.

MAF sensors from brand new, AC Delco, you're looking 150-200k miles, less if driven in dirty environments (near coal mine, logging roads etc.) In some sense its more an age thing, after 10-15 years its not uncommon for them to start going faulty/bad. They can get dirty, salty air in coastal environments can also cause oxidization on the wire over time which changes the resistance value of the wire as it heats up. But environmental differences don't alter life expectancy all that much. Fortunately a cheap, easy to replace part.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
It is not throwing any codes or SES. Do have an OBDII scanner and when my truck comes back I will check the things described in the previous post.

It runs just fine until the temp goes to above 186 then that's when the tranny starts acting up. Once you turn it off then back on and restart the problem goes away, even with regular operating temp.

Hopefully the tranny comes in this week and I can check the MAF sensor readings.

Thanks,,,

Bill
 
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