[the_fabricator]

ive gotten some mixed info on the 2.5 duke and what parts are compatible.
marine cranks, diffence in heads, super duty, cosworth.....
EDDIE this is kinda directed at you cause your the man..
lets clear this all up... what works and what doesnt, whats good and whats bad?
is there a difference in the heads in an A code and E code?which is better?
same w/ the intakes on the A and E, are the diff?which is better?
is there a electric water pump for these?
ive got more questions but im sure everyone else does too so

 

[the_fabricator]

http://ironduke7.tripod.com/index.htm

 

[Steady Eddie]

fab--

This thread is an excellent idea. It should be made a sticky, so it can be found and added to, easily.

I think, now, after many questions, that the Code E and the later, Code A, are so different, that they may be considered two entirely different engines. And, within THAT, there are, for example, THREE different Code A engines, just based on anti-smog regulations. We have the 49-state Code A, the California Code A, and a "mystery" Mountain Code A. What GM did to that last one, to make it run at high altitude, should make it a *hot rod* at sea level. "Sea level", as in where the ambient air is more dense.

Looking at it, the Mountain Motor probably has a different tune in the brainbox and mechanically, perhaps a different
MAP sensor and/or injector, although I haven't found it listed in the on-line parts catalogs from places like Napaonline...the MM is probably one of those "rarest of the rare" items, and as such, may not even be listed.

Where I am going with this: Can a lowly Code E engine be "converted" to a sea level MM with fairly simple mods like a MAP sensor swap?? You would still be strapped with all of the Code E deficits, like the headflow restrictions inherent to the design, but you would gain in output at sea level. Where the air is more dense. This all could be a dead end. However it certainly merits more research.

 

[the_fabricator]

what exactly are the differences between the A and E? which one is better?
i want to know cause i have both(a 93 that was running like crap last time i heard it and an 85 that is running which is about all i can say, in my 86 longbox) and im lookin to rebuild or get one rebuilt, if one head flows better then the other one im obviously gonna wanna use it!lol

 

[Steady Eddie]

what exactly are the differences between the A and E? which one is better?
i want to know cause i have both(a 93 that was running like crap last time i heard it and an 85 that is running which is about all i can say, in my 86 longbox) and im lookin to rebuild or get one rebuilt, if one head flows better then the other one im obviously gonna wanna use it!lol

========================
Somehow (depends on where you look), the Code A is rated at either 12 or 13 MORE horsepower than the Code E engine.

Where did this "extra" horsepower come from??

I don't know.

What I DO know is this:

The Code A has a different intake manifold with a different EGR valve. The gaskets are different.

The Code A has a different throttle body (TBI).

The Code A has a different Brainbox with different bin tuning.

The Code A has the better valve springs.

vs. your 1985 Code E, the '93 Code A has a stronger cast block.

vs. your '85, the '93 Code A has "crankshaft counter-balancing" so it should be a smoother engine.

And the list goes on.

Does the Code A head swap onto a Code E motor?? I don't know that, either. But if it does fit, you'd for sure need the matching intake.

 

[the_fabricator]

so it sounds like the a code is the way to go

 

[the_fabricator]

any links for superduty stuff?
any info for crank swaps?

 

[Steady Eddie]

any links for superduty stuff?
any info for crank swaps?

=========================
The SD stuff is here in the Archives, but save your typing fingers....SD stuff mainly fits SD engine blocks...the headbolts are fully 1/2"--the spacing is different, too. While the SD cast iron head WILL fit on a Code A or a Code E, there is some machine shop work needed to the block to get it on there.

The crankshaft swaps ARE doable, too. We just do not have (at this time) any Members that have been there and done that. Folks that could post up a "how-to" guide.

The 181 cu. inch Marine Crank will fit, one is available with the correct rear crankshaft seal, but then you get into the issue of what rods to use. Pontiac made forged pistons for the Turbo 301 V-8 that drop in. The 181 crankshaft is cast, however, and not forged. But you wind up with a 3 Liter 4-banger...there are 327 V-8 Chevy rods that are "supposed" to work, with minimum machine shop work. These are available as forged rods, via the aftermarket. A 3 liter should be dammed near blow-up proof...

 

[the_fabricator]

can i use the crank w/ stock everything else? im not intrested in getting any more machining than what is needed.
are the pontiac 301 rods price compatible w/ oe replacements?

 

[the_fabricator]

where can i find a 181 crank?

 

[Steady Eddie]

fab--

Most all of this stuff is in the Archives..

That said, here is a video of a newly rebuilt 181 Marine engine--note that it IS NOT our S10 Iron Duke, but it is based on the 153 cu. in. Chevy II 4-banger.

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Chevy-II-Engine-on_178833.htm

All you want is the correct rear seal 181 crankshaft, OUT of a motor like the one shown...

The vid shows "how" a rebuilder correctly "breaks a motor in".

There is no way I have heard to do this 3 L crank swap WITHOUT machine work....$$$

 

[the_fabricator]

neat video.
you have alot of really good info on these duke, if you have links to all your information would be great

 

[Steady Eddie]

fab--

Being ignorant, I always wondered how in hell you could buy a "broken-in, fully-tested" crate rebuilt motor and when it arrived it had NO black carbon in the exhaust ports. Now we all know, they do not fire 'em.

I ran across this link a while back, with comments from KRP's rep guy:

http://www.thedirtforum.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/000786.html

Far down in this interesting thread he says he'll sell you a fully-prepped 181 crank (for swapping) for $800--race ready.

THEN he says what rods to use..BINGO???

 

[Mafia_Insurance]

So say that i blow up my 87 2.5, i can purchase a 2.5 from a 1993 and drop it in ?

 

[lesterl]

Yeah, why not, may not make advertised power, may need a different intake.

Eddie, you my friend must be retired or have way too much time on your hands.

 

[blowd]

The marine crank swap is problematic but not impossible. definitely start with the one piece seal unit.
Here is a photo of an early 2pc seal marine crank. Note how far the flywheel (actually drive plate) flange extends past the oil slinger/rear seal area.

Sorry I didn't take take any pics of my duke crank when I had it out, but here is a pic of my 3.625 (181) SD crank. uh no it's not for sale

This is the business end. If you can find a 1 pc seal marine crank on ebay or somewhere note how much of the end of the crank would have to be cut back. Necessitating the drilling of new holes for the flywheel. Alternately one could adapt a flywheel and space the trans back to accomodate. Not a super clean solution.

Maybe someone could post up a 2.5L OEM crank for comparison.

BTW While I sold that marine crank, I still have the rods from it. Can't recall the length, but could be used with a mercruiser crank and pistons (press fit) to make a combo if someone was intent on doing it.

 

[Steady Eddie]

mafia---

If the motor mounts all carry the same part number, then it should drop in. The two engines are physically the same size.

But I have read that sometime in there, about 92 or 93, GM changed the plug-in for the injector. They went to a new, improved version. I DO know that a Code A injector carries a different part number and has a different receptacle on it. So what could that mean? It might mean that GM changed them ALL, so that your Code E harness would not work. If it only means that they changed just that one connector, then you could steal the one from the Code A donor rig, and splice it into your harness.

Knowing that the Code A injector was "different" I tried to find out if it had a higher flow rate, and there was the greater HP...I could not find it on any flow charts ???

 

[Steady Eddie]

blowd--

GREAT pictures--thank you..

 

[dimerunner88]

whats the part number on that wood box/crate?

 

[blowd]

dime,
That's a 10093312 You wouldn't believe what I got with it, but that's another thread.
If your into SD's and don't have it already google on HotrodSD4guide.pdf It's posted a couple of places but I don't recall off the top of the ole noggin'. Big download but it's the cliff notes/bible for SD's most of the p/n as well. Betcha Eddie knows where to get it.