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post #1 of 97 Old 12-06-2005, 07:31 PM Thread Starter
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THE welder comparo!

ok, i'm going to tackle the age old comparison of the millermatic 135 and the lincoln 135...well heres the specs from the miller electric website:

Millermatic-135

Infinite voltage control with wire feed speed tracking provides broader operating range with finer control by automatically increasing or decreasing wire feed speed when voltage is adjusted.

Durable cast aluminum feedhead incorporates dual groove quick-change drive roll and calibrated, spring-loaded tension arm designed to make setup easier and faster.

Easy access to output studs provides convenient polarity changeover when switching from solid or flux cored wires.

"Tip Saver" short circuit protection shuts down output when tip is shorted to the work. Extends contact tip life and protects internal components from damage. Trigger reset permits quick reset at torch rather than unit.

Built-in solid-state contactor circuit makes wire electrically "cold" until trigger is pulled. Makes unit safer, and is easier to position torch to work before starting weld.

Thermal overload protection shuts down the unit and activates over temperature light if airflow is blocked or duty cycle is exceeded. Automatically resets when fault is corrected and unit cools.





List Price
Base Model
Starting at:
$ 727.00 (US $)
Select a MIG Welder -View All All-in-One MIG Welders -View All MIG Power Sources -CP-302 -DELTA-FAB -DELTAWELD 302 -DELTAWELD 452 -DELTAWELD 652 -INVISION 354MP -INVISION 456MP -INVISION 456P -MILLERMATIC 135 -MILLERMATIC 175 -MILLERMATIC 210 -MILLERMATIC 251 -MILLERMATIC 350/350P -MILLERMATIC DVI -MILLERMATIC PASSPORT

Flux Cored (FCAW) (gas and self-shielded)
MIG (GMAW)
Watch Millermatic Setup and Procedure videos.


Light Industrial Applications
Light Fabrication
Maintenance and Repair
Farm and Ranch
Auto Body
Home


Input Power
Requires 1-Phase Power
115 V, 20 Amps 60 Hz


Rated Output
90 A at 18 VDC, 20% Duty Cycle


Output Power Range
30 - 135 Amps


Net Weight
60 lb (27.3 kg)




Power source included
10 ft (3 m), M-10 Miller MIG gun and cable assembly #195 605
10 ft (3 m) work cable with clamp
Factory-installed gas solenoid valve
Regulator and gas hose
Power cord and plug
Extra contact tips
Sample spool of solid wire
Information/settings chart
Set-up and operational video

Now here are the specs from the Lincoln Electric website

Lincoln Electric SP-135 Plus

SP-135 Plus

Combination Wire Feeder/MIG and Flux-Cored Welder with Welding Cart
List Price:771.00 (USD) *See Details
K2299-1 SP-135 Plus/Welding Cart One-Pak


This user-friendly wire feeder/welder from Lincoln Electric is ready to help you make short work of many around-the-home jobs, hobby projects, autobody repairs or farm chores! The SP-135 Plus handles MIG welds on a wide range of materials including mild steel, stainless steel and aluminum. Flux-cored welds on mild steel are a breeze. Achieve outstanding performance on thin sheet metal to medium plate by fine-tuning the arc using the continuous output voltage and wire feed speed controls. The SP-135 Plus also boasts industry leading output and arc performance in the 115V machine class. To top it off, we've made it easy to get started – virtually everything you need to MIG weld mild steel is included in one convenient package! Just add shielding gas.


Advantage Lincoln

• Ready To Weld! Includes mild steel MIG wire and adjustable gas regulator and hose kit. Just add shielding gas (sold separately).
• Continuous full-range adjustment of voltage and wire feed speed allows for fine-tuning of the arc and precise control of heat input.
• Capabilities include welding 24 gauge through 5/16" mild steel plate. Install K663-2 to weld 22 gauge through 1/8" aluminum.
• Designed to feed .023-.035" (0.6-0.9mm) diameter mild and stainless steel MIG wire, .035" (0.9mm) diameter flux-cored wire and .035" diameter 4043 aluminum MIG wire.
• Welder settings reference chart conveniently located inside wire feed section door makes it easy to set the machine for mild steel welding jobs.
• Gun trigger safety feature keeps welding wire electrically "cold" until trigger is pressed.
• Adjustable brake spindle accommodates both 8" (200mm) diameter and 4" (100mm) diameter spools of wire.
• Built-in "burnback" function insures proper wire stickout after each weld with no sticking in the weld puddle.
• Engineered and built for dependable service and long life expectancy.
• "Quick Release" idle pressure arm easily adjusts wire tension for positive wire feeding.
• High torque low-RPM drive motor provides extra long life and quiet operation.
• Electronic full range motor speed control compensates for power supply variations to maintain constant wire feed speed.
• Electronic and thermostatic protection from current overload and excessive temperatures.
• CSA NRTL/C approved.
• Three year warranty on parts and labor. (90 days warranty on gun and cable).
• Manufactured under a quality system certified to ISO 9001 requirements.







WHERE TO BUY
ORDER FORM
MORE PRODUCT INFO (pdf)
COMPETITIVE COMPARISON (pdf)
RELATED ARTICLES

Description
Output
Input


Processes
MIG Flux-Cored

Unit Includes
Magnum® 100L gun and cable assembly with .023/.025" contact tip, 10 ft. work cable and work clamp, 6 ft input power cord with NEMA Type 5-15P plug for connection to standard 115 volt receptacles, factory installed gas solenoid valve for MIG welding, adjustable gas regulator and hose for Ar and Ar-blend gases (regulator requires an adapter — sold separately — for use with CO2 cylinders), 2 lb. spool .025" SuperArc™ L-56 mild steel MIG wire and .030" contact tip, and K2275-1 Welding Cart. Shielding gas sold separately. Assembly required.


Recommended General Options
K520 Utility Cart (150 cu.ft. bottle capacity)
K2377-1 Canvas Cover
KP1881-1 Drive Roll Kit - .023-.035" (0.6-0.9mm) Solid Wire
KP666-035C Drive Roll Kit - .035" (0.9mm) Cored Wire
K549-1 .035 Innershield Welding Kit
K663-2 .035 Aluminum Welding Kit
View all General Options
K586-1 Deluxe Adjustable Gas Regulator and Hose Kit




Welding Specifications
Rated CV Output Amps/Volts/Duty Cycle Output Range Wire Feed Speed Range (IPM) Wire Feed Speed Range (M/MIN) Solid Wire Size Range Cored Wire Size Range
90/18/20% 25-135A DC 50-400 1.2-10.2 .023-.035" .035"



personally I like the lincoln better...comes with more

I have not welded with the niller, well i tacked with one once it seemed ok...

there ya go a side by side of both companies best 110vac 135 amp welders...happy buyin!


Dan
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Last edited by low-s-dime; 12-06-2005 at 07:45 PM. Reason: added some links
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post #2 of 97 Old 12-06-2005, 07:33 PM
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Re: welder comparo!

nice comparison, i myself have the lincoln pro mig 175 220v, and i love it
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post #3 of 97 Old 12-06-2005, 10:34 PM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

on the welding forums. most guys DON'T like the "wire speed tracking" feature on the millers. other than that, they are about the same. other than, if you plan to weld aluminum. lincoln has a NICE teflon liner that feeds aluminum wire GREAT, my first hand experience. DON'T bother trying to weld aluminum with a 135 machine. a 175 machine would be good for "some" aluminum welding.

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post #4 of 97 Old 12-06-2005, 11:37 PM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

Tried out the new lincoln powermig 350 today in class, thats the way to mig aluminum Jess. Pulse on Pulse pwns joo... will grab some pictures tommrow at school

Bash em
And splash em
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post #5 of 97 Old 12-09-2005, 06:38 PM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

I'm happy with my lincoln 140.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaw
"The problem with her is that she lacks the power of conversation, but not the power of speech.."
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post #6 of 97 Old 12-09-2005, 08:30 PM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

I'm happy with my jb weld!




j/k..
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post #7 of 97 Old 12-11-2005, 06:50 PM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

Either machine will do the job well, but I prefer Lincoln, its just what I use and what Im used to. So it basically just comes down to personal preference and opinion.


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post #8 of 97 Old 12-11-2005, 06:53 PM Thread Starter
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Re: THE welder comparo!

all my equipment is lincoln...even my wire brush, hopefully my rents will get the lincoln torch kit for me too lol

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post #9 of 97 Old 12-18-2005, 12:09 PM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

I've been working in fab shops since i was 16. In my opinion, miller welders are much better for people doing a lot of hot welding, i.e., having the machine turned way up. I've only used the larger models (Lincoln 255, Lincoln 350MP, Miller 251, Miller Dynasty 350 TIG, Miller Power Unit) so I don't know how the smaller models compare. At my current job, we use Millers Power Units originally set up for robotic welders, that we put a wire feed unit on. These machines are awsome with a 100% duty cycle at about 400 amps. I've always had problems with Lincoln 255 and so has my dad. The main problem is getting it set right, but I've had problem getting the gas to flow right. With the Miller 251, getting it set takes a couple of minutes and then you are set until you change material thickness. I've never had problems getting the gas to flow good either. I will say that Miller MIG welders should not be your first choice when it comes to aluminum welding. For aluminum, the Lincoln 350 MP is hands down the best welder, IMO of course. But, Miller has a pulse welder that is supposed to be pretty good. With stainless steel, the Miller 251 does a very good job. I hav enot had a chance to try the Lincoln 350 MP yet but my guess is that it will do better than the 251 in pulse mode and about the same in regular mig mode. Millers tig machines seem to work better also, IMO. I would say that if you're going to be doing a lot of welding and have a 460v 3-phase outlet, and about $7000, get a miller power unit with a wire feed attached. Otherwise, it's a personal choice thing, kind of like ford vs chevy. Just my 2 cents worth.
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post #10 of 97 Old 12-21-2005, 06:21 PM Thread Starter
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Re: THE welder comparo!

hey all, here is some info on the comperable hobart 110 welder:

Handler 140

The Handler® 140 operates off 115 volt standard household current for maximum versatility. Comes ready to weld with or without shielding gas, no additional kit required. With an amperage output range of 25 - 140, it easily handles a broad selection of solid mild steel or stainless, flux cored and aluminum wires.

500 500 $593.00 MSRP (US$)* (just welder)
#500 505 $655.00 MSRP (US$)* (welder with wheels and cylinder rack)

Comes complete with: Comfortable 10 ft. (3 m) H-10 MIG welding gun
Built-in gas valve
Regulator and gas hose
Power cord with plug
10 ft. (3 m) work cable with clamp
1 lb. spool of .030 in. (0.8mm) self-shielded flux cored welding wire
8 in (203 mm) wire spool adapter
Extra .030 in. (0.8 mm) contact tips
Weld set-up and parts information chart

Power CV
DC
1 Phase

Processes MIG (GMAW)
Flux Cored (FCAW)

Material Thickness Welds 24 gauge up to 1/4 inch

Skill Level Low

Applications Maintenance
Construction
Auto Body
Farm/Ranch
Rental
Home

Stock Numbers #500 500 115V, 60 Hz

#500 505 115V, 60 Hz
with Small Running Gear/ Cylinder Rack
Rated Output at 20% Duty Cycle 90 A at 19 VDC

63 A at 21 VDC (CSA Rating)
Current Range 25-140 amps
Max. Open-Circuit Voltage 28 V
Wire Feed Speed Range 40-700 IPM
50-740 IPM at no load
Amps Input at Rated Load, 60 Hz 115 V 20 15 CSA Rating
kVA 2.9 2.2 CSA Rating
kW 2.5 1.77 CSA Rating
Dimensions H: 12-3/8 in (315 mm)
W: 10-5/8 in (270 mm)
D: 19-1/2 in (495 mm)
Net Weight 57 lb (26 kg)

Welds 24 gauge up to 1/4 inch in steel
Proven built-in wire feeder with quick-release drive roll lever
Built-in contactor eases use and is an excellent safety feature which makes wire electrically "cold" when not welding.
Four output voltage settings with wire feed tracking provide quick and easy adjustment for different materials and thickness.
Separate "purge" setting to purge gas line and set flow rate without wasting wire
Easy access to polarity changeover includes storage holes for spare tips
Dual groove drive rolls make it easy to switch between .023/.025 in. (0.6 mm) and .030 - .035 in. (0.8 - 0.9 mm) wire
Self-resetting thermal overload and motor protection
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
enjoy!

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Last edited by low-s-dime; 12-21-2005 at 06:23 PM.
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post #11 of 97 Old 12-29-2005, 12:24 PM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

how can you compare a hobart to a lincoln or miller

i have a pair of millers. it's what i was brought up on. but i do have a lincoln gasless welder somewhere. it's worthless though

After a 3 year break, I'm back.......
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post #12 of 97 Old 12-29-2005, 04:02 PM Thread Starter
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Re: THE welder comparo!

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitey97
how can you compare a hobart to a lincoln or miller

i have a pair of millers. it's what i was brought up on. but i do have a lincoln gasless welder somewhere. it's worthless though
its just a comparison...to aid people in purchasing a welder lol

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post #13 of 97 Old 12-29-2005, 04:23 PM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

oh, i know, i was just kidding it's all good, thanks for doing all the grunt work of finding out all that stuff. good job!

but your pricing is a bit off. i don't think i paid more than 500 for my miler 135 after tax. but otherwise it's all there! even the info video! ha ha ha

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post #14 of 97 Old 12-29-2005, 04:28 PM Thread Starter
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Re: THE welder comparo!

the prices for those machines are what is displayed on the companies website...for more accurate pricing i would suggest contacting a local welding supply house such as welco or air/gas

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post #15 of 97 Old 02-20-2006, 02:41 PM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

Hobart's are made by Miller look at you Hobart gun (duh says MILLER)I prefer Miller to Lincoln for MIG but prefer Lincoln to Miller for ARC only because my Lincoln is an older model w/copper windingsJust my opinion Flame me if you must
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post #16 of 97 Old 02-20-2006, 04:40 PM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

I love my Hobart mig, works like a champ

my buddy has a miller 135, and it's a great welder also


it's all personal preference IMO

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post #17 of 97 Old 03-10-2006, 08:50 PM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

haha, calling a Hobart a POS but hyping up Miller...

The new Hobarts ARE Millers with a different name on the case.

I just bought a Lincoln Pro MIG 175, but couldn't tell you shit about it seeing as i have yet to use it.

...stupid 220 outlets!!
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post #18 of 97 Old 03-21-2006, 06:02 PM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

Maybe someone could help me out here with a little knowledge.
I'm looking to buy this welder from someone, it's a Century (five star)
welder. On the left side of the welder it has 250 amp DC and on the right
side of the welder it has 295 amp AC. My question is if this thing going to last
and be reliable? And if so, how much would you pay for it?......thanks...
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post #19 of 97 Old 05-10-2006, 02:44 AM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

I'll answer the century quetion. if you own one I'm sorry. If your looking at buying one DON'T.

I can answer the quetions on all the 115 machines up here sence I have recent personal exsperince. My uncle had a hobart. We didn't know it had like NO duty cycle at full power. Like I said he HAD a hobart.
as for the outher 2 machines, I needed a good portable machine so I had both the lincoln and miller 135. I bought the lincoln first because it was a tad cheaper. 3 machines later I ended up getting my money back on the lincoln and getting a miller. you really get the same with both machines if you purchase them new(lincoln aperently has a better marketing department than miller) and they'er allot cheaper if you buy them from a welding supply palce than they are listed on net. I payed 430 for the lincoln and 560 for the miller. Both are very good machines for light sheetmetal work, but the differnce is past 7 on the dial. you can really slam the miller harder and the power supply dosn't crap on you.

here are the cons on both machines
both machine cost almost 800 to convert over to aluminum
with a 20% duty cycle and a max of 1/8" with solid core wire nether machine will do a full single pass weld on a frame . the miller 175 will however do frame and tube work and it's only 150bux more, but still exspensive to convert to alum and it a 220v machine.

In my shop I use 2 single stage machines an old htp 240 and a millermatic 251.mine was never new, but I don't recomend the htp for novice users because even though it'll weld 3/4" inch steel In one pass it's kinda squirlly if it's not set right and will burn though sheet metal fast. plus I thinck they cost over 2grand brand new. I just got the the Miller 251to replase a machine that got swamped in the storm and it is a dream machine. I got the optional spool gun and 2 bottle rack and a trigas bottle for stainless the whole thing cost just over $2000

here are the cons.. they'er 220v machines, not portable, and expensive.

Blue roof resident
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post #20 of 97 Old 05-10-2006, 07:42 AM Thread Starter
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Re: THE welder comparo!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bvr775
I'll answer the century quetion. if you own one I'm sorry. If your looking at buying one DON'T.

I can answer the quetions on all the 115 machines up here sence I have recent personal exsperince. My uncle had a hobart. We didn't know it had like NO duty cycle at full power. Like I said he HAD a hobart.
as for the outher 2 machines, I needed a good portable machine so I had both the lincoln and miller 135. I bought the lincoln first because it was a tad cheaper. 3 machines later I ended up getting my money back on the lincoln and getting a miller. you really get the same with both machines if you purchase them new(lincoln aperently has a better marketing department than miller) and they'er allot cheaper if you buy them from a welding supply palce than they are listed on net. I payed 430 for the lincoln and 560 for the miller. Both are very good machines for light sheetmetal work, but the differnce is past 7 on the dial. you can really slam the miller harder and the power supply dosn't crap on you.

here are the cons on both machines
both machine cost almost 800 to convert over to aluminum
with a 20% duty cycle and a max of 1/8" with solid core wire nether machine will do a full single pass weld on a frame . the miller 175 will however do frame and tube work and it's only 150bux more, but still exspensive to convert to alum and it a 220v machine.

In my shop I use 2 single stage machines an old htp 240 and a millermatic 251.mine was never new, but I don't recomend the htp for novice users because even though it'll weld 3/4" inch steel In one pass it's kinda squirlly if it's not set right and will burn though sheet metal fast. plus I thinck they cost over 2grand brand new. I just got the the Miller 251to replase a machine that got swamped in the storm and it is a dream machine. I got the optional spool gun and 2 bottle rack and a trigas bottle for stainless the whole thing cost just over $2000

here are the cons.. they'er 220v machines, not portable, and expensive.
thats funny...i did single pass welds on my notch with complete penetration...

Dan
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post #21 of 97 Old 05-10-2006, 07:57 AM
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Re: welder comparo!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer Miked
nice comparison, i myself have the lincoln pro mig 175 220v, and i love it
i have that welder and it is amazing, i'll weld everything together if i could

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post #22 of 97 Old 05-10-2006, 11:00 AM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

are you guys using those 135's for someting like welding in a notch?

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post #23 of 97 Old 05-10-2006, 11:16 AM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

Quote:
Originally Posted by slamedsafari
are you guys using those 135's for someting like welding in a notch?

that's what their saying.

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post #24 of 97 Old 05-10-2006, 11:20 AM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

i read like the first few posts then went back to read.......i'm stupid i know

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post #25 of 97 Old 05-10-2006, 11:34 AM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

don't feel bad. apearently I'm the idiot because after all the years of welding i have i don't know what a good full pentration weld is.

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post #26 of 97 Old 05-10-2006, 05:45 PM Thread Starter
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Re: THE welder comparo!

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don't feel bad. apearently I'm the idiot because after all the years of welding i have i don't know what a good full pentration weld is.
never said ya didnt know bro...im just telling you that you are wrong

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post #27 of 97 Old 05-10-2006, 10:17 PM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

if your hobart died becuase you passed the duty cycle too many times, that's your own fault man

mine sure does weld 1/4" in a single pass and it's only a 125 amp machine, and naturally, I obey the duty cycle and don't run the piss out of it with thicker stuff

if you'll use it like it's intended and not crank the amps as high as possible and try to build a full frame in a day you'll be fine and you won't kill the welder

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post #28 of 97 Old 05-12-2006, 02:45 AM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

It's your money.
if you have a 115v machine its only rated at 90a, but most will go up to 135a. That doesn't mean you should though

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post #29 of 97 Old 05-12-2006, 03:00 AM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

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I'll answer the century quetion. if you own one I'm sorry. If your looking at buying one DON'T.
yeah, I didn't buy it, everyone I asked about it just drew a blank....lol....
so I stayed away from it.......thanks for your opinion..
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post #30 of 97 Old 05-12-2006, 07:32 AM Thread Starter
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Re: THE welder comparo!

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It's your money.
if you have a 115v machine its only rated at 90a, but most will go up to 135a. That doesn't mean you should though
what are you talking about bro?

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post #31 of 97 Old 06-15-2006, 11:33 PM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

spend the xtra cash and get 220v i love my miller 175 mig welders are an investment chose wisely but miller lincoln and hobart are all about =. there all great welders. look at fine detail miller has reostat controls i htink this is a plus. plus blue color lol. buy a well known brand name not harbor freight junk you get what you puy forhttp.
://www.cardomain.com/ride/2305335
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post #32 of 97 Old 06-16-2007, 09:41 AM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

Just bought a lincoln pro 175 I love it. We have a hobart, lincoln, and miller machine at work for TIG, the miller blows no one uses it.

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post #33 of 97 Old 07-02-2007, 01:19 PM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

I own a hobart handler 140 and I love it. I have three words for you. Hobart,Miller,Lincoln. You cant go wrong with any of the three. I wouldnt even consider any other brands.
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post #34 of 97 Old 07-02-2007, 09:07 PM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

snap-on MM250 mig/tig works like a champ!!!! wrapped many hopper frames,tig is sweet too just finished a s/s turbo mani. for a saturn drag car.
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post #35 of 97 Old 11-04-2007, 04:08 PM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

i have the lincoln sp 135, i love it. i dont use it as much as id like to but its great. what would you guys recomend for a TIG welder, keep in mind that i dont want to spend $3000 for one. ive seen the small MILLER TIG welders about the size of a large lunch box, how much are they?

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post #36 of 97 Old 02-04-2008, 01:38 AM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

I have the Millermatic DVI. It is a sick welder. More or less a MM 135 and a MM 175 all in one box with a little high duty cycle than the MM 175 almost a MM185. The 110 is nice for exhaust and sheetmetal. I wouldn't even try to weld anything structural with it. Thats what 220 is for.

To the guys welding frames with 110v...ya of course it holds...for now.
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post #37 of 97 Old 02-04-2008, 06:31 PM Thread Starter
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Re: THE welder comparo!

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To the guys welding frames with 110v...ya of course it holds...for now.
i guess ignorance is bliss...your statement is 100% incorrect

weld 1/8" steel together at 100a, with .035 fc wire with a 110 machine and then with a 220 machine...there will be no difference it the appearance of the bead. there will be no difference in penetration either. i welded my bridge with a 110 machine 3 or 4 years ago and its holding up just fine.

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post #38 of 97 Old 02-04-2008, 08:07 PM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

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i guess ignorance is bliss...your statement is 100% incorrect

weld 1/8" steel together at 100a, with .035 fc wire with a 110 machine and then with a 220 machine...there will be no difference it the appearance of the bead. there will be no difference in penetration either. i welded my bridge with a 110 machine 3 or 4 years ago and its holding up just fine.
That has to be the dumbest thing Ive ever heard. That still doesn't mean it is going to hold under abuse or that I would weld it with 220 at 100amps either. Not to mention your killing your welder to do it. I build shit to last and take the abuse. I've welded 10,000lb tie downs for dropping trucks from planes. I've never had a bumper D ring pull out from four wheeling but I have seen enough peoples 110 volt crap break and nearly kill people to know that 110v welders are NOT MADE FOR BUILDING ANYTHING STRUCTURAL and if you don't believe me, go ask on a welding forum. Prove me wrong.

But hey as long as you aren't driving in front of me, I could care less what you do.
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post #39 of 97 Old 02-04-2008, 08:19 PM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

my Hobart 140 works just fine for me

what else can I do?

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post #40 of 97 Old 02-05-2008, 10:13 PM Thread Starter
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Re: THE welder comparo!

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That has to be the dumbest thing Ive ever heard. That still doesn't mean it is going to hold under abuse or that I would weld it with 220 at 100amps either. Not to mention your killing your welder to do it. I build shit to last and take the abuse. I've welded 10,000lb tie downs for dropping trucks from planes. I've never had a bumper D ring pull out from four wheeling but I have seen enough peoples 110 volt crap break and nearly kill people to know that 110v welders are NOT MADE FOR BUILDING ANYTHING STRUCTURAL and if you don't believe me, go ask on a welding forum. Prove me wrong.

But hey as long as you aren't driving in front of me, I could care less what you do.
if you weld it right it wont break...nuff said, im not going to argue with you.

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post #41 of 97 Old 02-05-2008, 10:25 PM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

ehhhhhhh Im gonna have to go with the king on this one. He's gonna have you his way! haha!

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post #42 of 97 Old 02-05-2008, 10:25 PM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

Um, you started the argument with me.
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post #43 of 97 Old 02-06-2008, 06:52 PM Thread Starter
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Re: THE welder comparo!

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Um, you started the argument with me.
no...i simply responded to your asinine comment with a true statement...here are a few more for you, Q&A style.

if you have a machine from any decent manufacturer and it is rated to say 135a, how would running it at 100a kill it when it s designed to run at 135a? It wont, it will be just fine.

If a 110v machines weld would break than why are about 90% of this forums bagged trucks not falling apart? Because it doesnt make a difference what voltage it is welded with.

Do you think the metal knows the difference when it is being melted by electricity between 220v and 110v? No, why, because it is being converted from ac to dc anyways and is being output at the same amperage no matter if its 220 or 110.

Why do welds fail? Most welded components fail because of too much heat being put into the surrounding material than because of shitty welds. As long as the bead is run correctly and not too hot, you can make 100 passes if need be, in fact multiple passes are REQUIRED by engineering specs by governing bodies such as ASME. So if you are using a 110v stick welder or a 440 powered units, you still need to make multiple passes at the correct temperature without warping the material or having contaminated welds.

Most of the time the metal around the weld will break before the weld itself will. In fact, here is a picture of some bronze i welded that was smacked repeatedly with a hammer:



Note the solid material broke not the weld.

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post #44 of 97 Old 02-06-2008, 08:15 PM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

Dude, you think I am an idiot. What if you want to weld something 3/8" thick? 1/2 inch? 3/4"?

I'm sorry, I didn't realize that the frames were so thin and that everyone on here is a certified welder.

I've been welding on fullsize trucks which are a lot thicker. They wouldn't even let us use 220v. Most stuff was 3 passes, 1 down 2 vertical with 440v.

So whatever, this is stupid. Like I said before...do what you do. I wasn't meaning to start shit. Reguardless of which welder you using, I think it is a bad idea for an inexperienced welder to be welding a frame back together.

But don't get me wrong, as I am completely behind someone learning how to do something and have taught bunches of people myself.
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post #45 of 97 Old 02-10-2008, 04:39 PM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

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The new Hobarts ARE Millers with a different name on the case
so true. i like my hobart alot better than lincoln. seems to burn in a little better

Quote:
110v welders are NOT MADE FOR BUILDING ANYTHING STRUCTURAL and if you don't believe me, go ask on a welding forum. Prove me wrong.
hhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmm....good pionts on both sides. ive seen good welds that hold with 110volt welders. mig and stick. yes you can weld thick plate metal also. 1inch thick is the max for me.

ive took a welding class that was taught strictly fr structural welding for buildings.

110v welders are great for cars if you have your machine setup currectly. if not it can be a death trap.
if you have a 220v or 3phrase then use it for the frames! why not?atleast you know your getting a complete weld.

110v machines when welding thicker metal will tend to heat up if you weld something major and dont clean them.
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post #46 of 97 Old 02-10-2008, 04:41 PM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

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I've been welding on fullsize trucks which are a lot thicker. They wouldn't even let us use 220v. Most stuff was 3 passes, 1 down 2 vertical with 440v.
huh? the thickest ive ever seen on any truck frame is maybe 1/4inch.

thats because of lap joints
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post #47 of 97 Old 02-10-2008, 04:55 PM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

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huh? the thickest ive ever seen on any truck frame is maybe 1/4inch.

thats because of lap joints
Maybe you should go look at a 6500 series GM truck or an International or Isuzu T series. I'm not talking about little trucks.
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post #48 of 97 Old 02-20-2008, 12:35 PM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

I personally only own a 120VAC Lincoln SP135 (my SP135t was stolen and had since been discontinued) and a cheap Cambell Hausfield 90amp 110V arc welder (don't flame me, I got it REALLY cheap on a trade), but if I were to buy another welder it would have to be a 220V Millermatic with the aluminum spool gun. I used one at a company that I worked at for around a year and a half. I absolutely LOVE the versatility of the Miller, especially with the spool gun. It was able to weld thin sheetmetal at low settings without burning through, build aluminum tool boxes from 14ga, 1/8", and 3/16" aluminum, and weld steel plate up to 3/8" thick in one pass. I've made due with my Lincoln since, but I'd love to own the Miller...

I've used the 120V MIGs on EVERYTHING automotive-at least passenger cars and light trucks. If you know what you're doing you can get by with a 110 or 120V welder for your complete project truck, from shaving door handles and such to installing a C-notch, 4-link, or even building a custom frame. If you plan on working all day long with your welder, go for the 220V though-or even bigger if you're around a 440V electrical outlet. The smaller 135amp units have tiny duty cycles (although I've worked my Lincoln to death and it's still holding up fine-but I DO NOT RECOMMEND THAT YOU TRY THIS-you'll likely destroy an expensive machine) and usually a maximum single-pass penetration of 3/16" steel. Some are rated for 1/4", but the duty cycle's usually rated at 20-35% at full power. The benefit of the larger machines (220V+) is that they have longer duty cycles and a LOT more power, especially when it comes to single-pass full penetration. Duty cycles at full power of the big welders are sometimes close to the duty cycles at full power of the smaller machines, but you need to keep in mind that the 220V can weld plate up to and sometimes over 150% of the smaller machines. And the duty cycle of the 220v at 135amps (max power of most of the 110v machines) is usually twice that of their little brothers.

I don't think anybody's touched on duty cycles for beginning welders here yet. A duty cycle rating is based on half-hour increments, meaning that a 30% duty cycle at say 130amps would be designed to run for only ten minutes at a time (30% of a half hour) and then rest (no useage) for the remaining twenty minutes. If your machine is rated at a 50% duty cycle at 80 or 90amps, only weld for fifteen minutes at a time when you're at that setting or below and put the gun down for another fifteen. Repeated use of a welder past it's duty cycle will kill it-maybe not right at the duty cycle's limit, but it will lose power over time.

Flux core wire sucks. Period. I used it when I was learning to weld, and even built a truck entirely out of it (notch, suspension, fabbed control arms, and everything else), but I wouldn't recommend that a beginner start welding on their trucks with flux core. For one, you get WAY too much splatter and that makes it hard to keep your eyes on the puddle, which even looks different then real wire. It's hard to make pretty beads and get good, consistent penetration in anything over 1/8" steel with it. And it stinks, I've grown to hate the smell of it. Keep a spool of it around for when your 80/20 tank runs dry, and then only use it to tack structural components. Flux cored wire is too thick to weld sheetmetal reliably, so don't count on being able to use it when shaving your door handles or other body mods. From my experience, you'll do more damage than good. If you can manage to keep it from burning through then you'll likely warp the panel you're working on all to hell. IMO, just let the dust gather on the spool of flux core and keep a spare tank on hand...

-Adam Collins
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post #49 of 97 Old 04-23-2008, 12:54 PM
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Re: THE welder comparo!

Been welding for 10 years, I get an x-ray thrown on my work three times a day. I would not and will not weld a frame with a 110v welder! You can preach all you want about it but its the welds decision whether or not it wants to hold. The 220v has a way more stable arc and will not be over exerting itself to do it. Its not about whos right and whos wrong, its about whos truck "could" come apart and kill somebody. Technically you could use a 110v welder to do a frame with the right technique/skill but the guys who say its safe to do have not enough welding experience or knowledge to do so.
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post #50 of 97 Old 04-23-2008, 05:55 PM Thread Starter
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Re: THE welder comparo!

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Been welding for 10 years, I get an x-ray thrown on my work three times a day. I would not and will not weld a frame with a 110v welder! You can preach all you want about it but its the welds decision whether or not it wants to hold. The 220v has a way more stable arc and will not be over exerting itself to do it. Its not about whos right and whos wrong, its about whos truck "could" come apart and kill somebody. Technically you could use a 110v welder to do a frame with the right technique/skill but the guys who say its safe to do have not enough welding experience or knowledge to do so.
prove it...weld, cross section, and then xray steel welded with a 110 and a 220. then do some tensile tests, and shear/break tests.

Dan
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