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post #1 of 61 Old 01-25-2013, 08:26 PM Thread Starter
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Wink cardboard cantilever madness!

ok so alot of people cant grasp the cantilever thing and im going to design a quick set based on what i think laynlow is looking to do, with a 24 in. bar and 50/50 split parralled with the upper 4 link bar as the cantilever and show you how i would go about laying them out on cardboard to see if they would work. now with that said im open to all constructive criticism and if you have a better way of designing them on CARDBOARD please by all means ad to it i would like this or someone betters idea to be a sticky so people realize its not so hard to lay something out on cardboard.

ok so i drew a straight line to represent the ground or pavement so you have a square place to measure from and these are the tools i will use.

now a 20 in. wheel with tire depending on size usually comes up just shy or around 27 in. take half that witch is 13.5 add a half in. so your not bottoming out the bag and you get 14 in. that would be the center of your axle

i based this off a 2.5 in. center bolt tab from the edge of the axle, now i usually like to move that center point back a half in. for pinion adjustments and just a little slack to adjust

this setup is based off a 24 in. bar with the center point of the lower bar being 3 in. off the ground measure and mark

now between the 2 tabs off the rear from center point to center point of the bolt holes i measured 7 3/4

now in this picture the left is the bottom i measure 7 3/4 from the center point of the lower bar mount and make my mark, that will be the center point as the front upper bar mount (keeping these measurement the same with the same bar lengths make no binding if parallel)

the circles represent your standard 2 in. bar ends on most of our 4 links

this measurement is off the upper bar center point to achieve a 50/50 (bag mounted half way on the bar, same thing) so a 24 in bar with a bag mounted mid way would be 12 in. that would be 50/50 so in a cantilever your just remote mounting the bag. so i go 12 in. above because he wanted the bag facing the cab on a cross member

center of this bag is the previous mark 12 in. above the circle you see below this is were the bag will be mounted

he wants an re8 so this is marked out at 8 in. the width of the bag. the top of most bags measure 5 1/4 wide, this is marked out

this is the horrible crappy bag in place at its collasped hieght of 3 in.

now at this point you have designed the geometry of your cantilever arms they meet your requirements so now you just have to add your design to them first thing that came to my mind as i walked out of my living room into my kitchen (yes i did this in my living room watching tv having a beer (pbr) is the pizza tray in the sink

this is after connecting a few center points with the perimeter of the pizza tray at 2 in. from inside to outside walls.


and the lower for shtz in giggles

the dog dish was plan b for some curves

cut her out and lets see how this thing performs?

this is the bottom pivot point with a screw in it (acting as a bolt)

ok so its all set up bag in place collapsed at 3 in. screw in pivot point

tape in place to measure lift

screw to mark were the upper axle mt is in your laid out truck

the bag inflated to 12 in. measured out (you wont get this much axle rotation because of how i did the axle on cardboard i never used the bottom mount for the lift)

mark it with a second screw or nail so you can measure the axle lift

we got 13 1/2 in lift wahooooooooooo!
i hope you guys like this and it turns into something thats more of a how too and others add theyre knowledge and a step by step how to. there are millions of ways to layout a cantilever arm but this is one that i banged out in an hour and a half now go cut one out!

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post #2 of 61 Old 01-25-2013, 08:34 PM
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

awesome! 13.5" of lift will do nicely

Yea my trucks got a few mods
97 std cab S10 4.3 AKA The bodydrop
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post #3 of 61 Old 01-25-2013, 08:34 PM
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

Cantilever.
(keyword for myself to search for, when I get another truck and do this.)

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post #4 of 61 Old 01-25-2013, 08:41 PM Thread Starter
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

the distance you measure off your pivot point will give you more or less lift just measure for the 3 points and see what you get with the bag placement and lift then connect the dots with you design
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post #5 of 61 Old 01-25-2013, 09:31 PM
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

Doesn't the distance bw the pivot of the cantilever and the lower link bar need to be the same as the distance of the bracket on the axle?

The way it looks, the bracket has a smaller distance bw the two pivot points which would make pinion change quite a bit with that much lift right?
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post #6 of 61 Old 01-25-2013, 09:34 PM Thread Starter
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

yea they are both 7 3/4 axle brackets center to center and the mounts of the front link bars are 7 3/4 center to center
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post #7 of 61 Old 01-25-2013, 09:34 PM
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

Never mind I see the measurements which show that they are parallel...
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post #8 of 61 Old 01-25-2013, 09:35 PM Thread Starter
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

the cantilever is only lift at this point will not create any binding if its setup parallel like it is
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post #9 of 61 Old 01-25-2013, 09:36 PM Thread Starter
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

whoops you posted while i was typing sry
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post #10 of 61 Old 01-25-2013, 09:39 PM
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

Right... now one thing I have always wondered is does the bag expanding more on one side than the other affect how it rides? Or can the bag push out in the center?

When I had my bagged truck I had the airbar and shockwaves so it wasn't an issue
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post #11 of 61 Old 01-25-2013, 09:49 PM Thread Starter
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

think of the as the front of any bagged truck with any other bag, yes the bag bellows but no it doesnt affect it that much as long as your not over doing it
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post #12 of 61 Old 01-25-2013, 10:51 PM
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

I dont know much about canti's, but you sure make it look easy.

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Project thread: Laying on billet 22s https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f30/si...thread-486853/
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post #13 of 61 Old 01-25-2013, 11:48 PM Thread Starter
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

you know man you make yourself look dumb ( i dont now much about cantis but i can lay my truck out on 22s) I DONT GET IT MATT this part is easy you did the hard part
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post #14 of 61 Old 01-25-2013, 11:49 PM Thread Starter
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

ill trade ya cantis for 22s
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post #15 of 61 Old 01-25-2013, 11:50 PM Thread Starter
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

hahahahahahahaahhha???????????
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post #16 of 61 Old 01-25-2013, 11:55 PM
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

Good tutorial, Just be careful with how long the bag side of the canti is. It looks a little short, which can make it very easy to over extend the far side of the bag.

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post #17 of 61 Old 01-26-2013, 12:07 AM Thread Starter
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

completely rite, i want people to know how to do this, thats not hard. i recognize it as the guy dragging trying to let all the psi out of his bags at 80 mph its not gonna work. but the guy doing 60 with a well laid out suspension with 20 psi dragging will do just fine dragin and cruisen for hours on end. im no pro but i think i have a good grasp on this and im no genius so i think i can break this down for the others that are at my level
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post #18 of 61 Old 01-26-2013, 06:14 AM
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

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Originally Posted by Retro Ten View Post
ill trade ya cantis for 22s

lol, i better hold on to the 22s for a lil bit

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post #19 of 61 Old 01-26-2013, 08:38 AM Thread Starter
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

Shukz!
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post #20 of 61 Old 01-26-2013, 09:39 AM
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

nice write up!
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post #21 of 61 Old 01-26-2013, 09:46 AM Thread Starter
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

thanks i want this to get added to from other people and have it made into a sticky ive designed a bunch no in a few diff forms my bro is gonna take a pic he has of another set i designed and he made for lowers later tonite
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post #22 of 61 Old 01-26-2013, 10:12 AM
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

That is bad ass
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post #23 of 61 Old 01-26-2013, 11:40 AM
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

After going over this in my mind 40 times i finally got it... lol.. Great write up!!

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post #24 of 61 Old 01-26-2013, 02:20 PM
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

you honestly have too much time on your hands that youre making canilevers out of cardboard.....
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post #25 of 61 Old 01-26-2013, 02:41 PM
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

Cool first post, bro... : (sarcasm)

But hey, maybe it's just common sense to measure twice, cut once, and make sure it'll actually function as it's supposed to without wasting time, steel, wire, gas, etc?

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post #26 of 61 Old 01-26-2013, 02:44 PM
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

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you honestly have too much time on your hands that youre making canilevers out of cardboard.....
And you must as well, since you can make useless posts.

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post #27 of 61 Old 01-26-2013, 04:37 PM
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

Quote:
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you honestly have too much time on your hands that youre making canilevers out of cardboard.....

i started mine out of cardboard , then moved onto wood and i finally just made it out of steel. i dont have much time to spare ither. but ...... ok


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post #28 of 61 Old 01-26-2013, 04:47 PM
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

looks good man, im working on making a new link setup and canti for my mazda. i gotta get some cardboard now lol


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post #29 of 61 Old 01-26-2013, 06:52 PM Thread Starter
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

you honestly have too much time on your hands that youre making canilevers out of cardboard.....

bout f*cking time you got on here you db when the f*ck you gonna make your own thread so i dont have to keep posting in mine about your tin pile of crap weve been working on. o and joe real original that your name is the same on the yota site. hahahaha figured you would find me and talk crap on here, im going to were your gf works to get a burger and look at her now see ya later!
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

Ha^


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post #31 of 61 Old 01-28-2013, 10:06 AM
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

I am confused by the forces at play in a canti setup...

As the bag inflates it applies force rear-ward on the canti bar, which rotate the axle (pinion rotating to the positive), in turn the rear applies the same force going towards the front of the truck through the lower bar?

Then the lower mount of the canti bar is what prevents the rear from just flopping over backwards, and causes the lift?

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post #32 of 61 Old 01-28-2013, 12:52 PM
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

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I am confused by the forces at play in a canti setup...

As the bag inflates it applies force rear-ward on the canti bar, which rotate the axle (pinion rotating to the positive), in turn the rear applies the same force going towards the front of the truck through the lower bar?

Then the lower mount of the canti bar is what prevents the rear from just flopping over backwards, and causes the lift?
the center pivot is connected to an assembly hooked to the frame. the bag pushes up on the bar, down on the axle and where the center pivot is, it lifts the truck. if you think about it, it physically picks the truck up there so it would have to be a pretty strong point in the build.

the canti doesnt mess with the pinion angle. you still have your link setup. that is what the 'dog bones' are for. the arc of rotation for the axle and the change in pinion angle if you have it are compensated for with the dog bones moving forward or back.

Yea my trucks got a few mods
97 std cab S10 4.3 AKA The bodydrop
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post #33 of 61 Old 01-28-2013, 12:57 PM
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

oh wait i didnt even notice that until now. retro ten, you should have put a link assembly between the axle and the canti arms. does that clear up a lot of confusion for you guys? look at this setup. notice the short links between the arms and the axle. thats what is making up for rotations during lift and lowering.


Yea my trucks got a few mods
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post #34 of 61 Old 01-28-2013, 02:16 PM
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

That's why I'm confused! Thought it was mission something but couldn't figure er out!


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post #35 of 61 Old 01-28-2013, 03:24 PM
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

^ That pic I am pretty good with. I see the par. 4 link (holding rear in location front to rear) and I see his Watts link (holding rear in location laterally)...

And it makes a little more sense to me from that pic that as the bag inflates it pushes the bag mount upward, but also pushes the center pivot upwads...
so the dogbone is just to keep the canti arm from binding?

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post #36 of 61 Old 01-28-2013, 03:30 PM
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

It just means you get more lift out of the same size bag. This does mean you have to run a higher psi in the bag correct? Since, using a 2:1, the truck's weight is now putting twice the force on the bag? So, with a 2:1, you have to theoretically double the psi and with a 1:2, you should need half the psi, or am I just totally wrong here?

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post #37 of 61 Old 01-28-2013, 04:39 PM Thread Starter
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

gunther you dont always need a dog bone depending on your setup, im trying to get a pic from anther canti bar i designed as a lower bar

and 98 dime you are correct 2:1 setup is the same as a bag in the middle of a 4 link bar and there is no way to make a 1:2 setup because 1:1 is over the axle

and my canti arms do have dog bones because of how short my bars are
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post #38 of 61 Old 01-28-2013, 04:55 PM
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

you could make a canti setup and use the uppers bars as the cantilever but i want a simpler setup that i can keep under my bed cover and still have a bedfloor.

Yea my trucks got a few mods
97 std cab S10 4.3 AKA The bodydrop
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post #39 of 61 Old 01-28-2013, 05:20 PM Thread Starter
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

im geting the pic of the other one i designed prolly later tonite youll like this one then
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post #40 of 61 Old 01-28-2013, 07:42 PM
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

this is one of the other types of cantilever bars retroten was talking about works really well I built these for a project I am building
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post #41 of 61 Old 01-28-2013, 07:43 PM
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post #42 of 61 Old 01-28-2013, 07:45 PM
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

note the the bars are not cleaned up and been sitting that's why theres rust on them
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post #43 of 61 Old 01-28-2013, 07:57 PM
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

whats best for the pivot? solid mount or rubber?

Yea my trucks got a few mods
97 std cab S10 4.3 AKA The bodydrop
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post #44 of 61 Old 01-28-2013, 08:01 PM Thread Starter
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

a regular bar end that way you have a wearable part those were the bars i designed for bill just making 3 measured points and he (connected the dots) and designed the rest of the bar we call them the hockey sticks. they are lower 4 link canti arms so it is a lower bar and the short end is the bag mount
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post #45 of 61 Old 01-29-2013, 09:11 AM
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

I believe if you reverse your bars, and put the bag on the long arm and the axle on the short arm, you can build a 1:2? Not that any one has any reason to do so, since the point seems to be to get more lift, not less, and not trying to be argumentative, just for the sake of discussion.

Procrastination has carried me this far in life, it will carry me to my grave, and hopefully put that off as well.

'98 RCSB on jack stands, waiting on me to get the 4.8 and T56 swap together, while I steal parts off of it to keep the daily going.

'99 2DR 2WD Blazer that I bought for a daily but just can't leave it alone.
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post #46 of 61 Old 01-29-2013, 01:28 PM
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 98lowerednewproje View Post
I believe if you reverse your bars, and put the bag on the long arm and the axle on the short arm, you can build a 1:2? Not that any one has any reason to do so, since the point seems to be to get more lift, not less, and not trying to be argumentative, just for the sake of discussion.
Yes it is possible to build a 1:2 ratio cantilever. It all depends on the way the rocker is built.
You dont necessarily need twice the pressure in a 2:1 system. While it is true the weight on the bag is in direct proportion to the leverage (2:1 makes the bag see 2x the weight, 3:1 3x, etc) it doesnt mean the pressure needed is the same. Air is a very progressive spring. So depending on bag size (volume) and pressures, the pressure needed will be more, but not the same as the leverage ratio.
I have built a lot of cantilevers with my first being in 1997. Once you get the basics (which the OP did a nice job on) they arent hard to do. From my experiences, I would stay under 2.5:1. I have found anything more than that has the bag to compressed at ride height for it to really work well.
Here is the first one. Its not on air but the same principles apply.


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www.innovativeairsuspension.com
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post #47 of 61 Old 01-30-2013, 10:16 PM
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

That needs to get dirty. I want to go!
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post #48 of 61 Old 01-30-2013, 10:22 PM Thread Starter
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

i wanna see a pic of it dirty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !! most dont get dirty?
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post #49 of 61 Old 02-11-2013, 01:02 AM
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

I see Pabst Blue Ribbon! lmao

cool tutorial, ive explain a pan hard bar the same way to people that didnt get how to mount it properly, guess thats y its not a called pan easy bar.
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post #50 of 61 Old 02-11-2013, 04:35 PM Thread Starter
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Re: cardboard cantilever madness!

yea love the pbr and post it up
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