Just replaced spider assembly; misfiring even worse now; ODB2 readings - S-10 Forum
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post #1 of 27 Old 05-18-2019, 04:35 PM Thread Starter
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Just replaced spider assembly; misfiring even worse now; ODB2 readings

I just replaced the fuel injectors (with the new version) on my 2000 S10, and it's running even worse now. I really hope I did something stupid like put the injectors in the wrong holes. Here are my ODB2 logs. Can anyone comment on the fuel trim readings? I don't know which one is correct -- 25% or 50% -- and which cylinders the banks correspond to.

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post #2 of 27 Old 05-18-2019, 04:44 PM
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Re: Just replaced spider assembly; misfiring even worse now; ODB2 readings

Sorry...no magnifying glass....

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post #3 of 27 Old 05-18-2019, 04:46 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Just replaced spider assembly; misfiring even worse now; ODB2 readings

A larger version: https://i.imgur.com/sYvH86R.png
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post #4 of 27 Old 05-18-2019, 06:20 PM
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Re: Just replaced spider assembly; misfiring even worse now; ODB2 readings

Injectors in the wrong holes was the first thing I thought of. Did you see where they were marked on the plastic block? Next would be vacuum leak.
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post #5 of 27 Old 05-18-2019, 08:11 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Just replaced spider assembly; misfiring even worse now; ODB2 readings

I just figured out how to look at the misfire counters. At idle, it says cylinder 2 is misfiring consistently. But if I give it some gas (~ 3000 RPM) it shows only cylinder 1 misfiring.

Since cylinder 1 and 2 are on opposite sides of the engine, it seems extremely unlikely that I somehow swapped those fuel injectors.

I am way out of my depth here.
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post #6 of 27 Old 05-18-2019, 08:13 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Just replaced spider assembly; misfiring even worse now; ODB2 readings

How does the computer detect which cylinder is misfiring? If it's looking only at fluctuations in the crankshaft speed, it would seem logical that it's less accurate at higher RPMs because the fluctuations would be smaller. Maybe it just guesses cylinder 1 when it can't determine which cylinder is misfiring?
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post #7 of 27 Old 05-19-2019, 12:01 AM
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Re: Just replaced spider assembly; misfiring even worse now; ODB2 readings

Computers don't guess. You are giving them AI and the ones in cars haven't been developed to that point, yet.
The fuel trim numbers must have been taken at idle. Nothing ever really changed.
The drivers side of the engine is bank one even when it is turned sideways in a fwd. If you stand at the flywheel end looking toward the water pump the left side is bank 1.
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post #8 of 27 Old 05-19-2019, 08:34 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Just replaced spider assembly; misfiring even worse now; ODB2 readings

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Computers don't guess. You are giving them AI and the ones in cars haven't been developed to that point, yet.
Care to speculate why only cylinder 2 would misfire at idle, but only cylinder 1 would misfire at 3000 RPM?

Quote:
The fuel trim numbers must have been taken at idle. Nothing ever really changed.
Well, the bank 2 short term fuel trim shows a gradual decrease from 26% down to 12%, then fluctuating thereafter.

The bank 1 short term fuel trim seems to be pegged at 50%.

Yes, this log was recorded at idle, shortly after starting the engine.

Quote:
The drivers side of the engine is bank one even when it is turned sideways in a fwd. If you stand at the flywheel end looking toward the water pump the left side is bank 1.
So, the odd-numbered cylinders. Good to know, thanks.
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post #9 of 27 Old 05-20-2019, 08:39 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Just replaced spider assembly; misfiring even worse now; ODB2 readings

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Next would be vacuum leak.
Thanks for this suggestion. I have found at least two problems so far.

One is a 7/32" hose that was obviously decayed. Not sure what it is, other than that it holds a vacuum and it goes in near where the PCV valve hose goes in. I replaced it.

Then I noticed there was a loud hissing sound near where the brake boost vacuum hose goes in. (At least that's what I think it is.) It needs a new o-ring.

Got any advice for how to identify all of these hoses and systematically look for vacuum leaks?
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post #10 of 27 Old 05-20-2019, 08:54 PM
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Re: Just replaced spider assembly; misfiring even worse now; ODB2 readings

It's only got like 3. Pcv, brake booster, heater/storage tank,4x4 (if equipped)
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post #11 of 27 Old 05-20-2019, 09:09 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Just replaced spider assembly; misfiring even worse now; ODB2 readings

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It's only got like 3. Pcv, brake booster, heater/storage tank,4x4 (if equipped)
How can I figure out what size o-ring I need for that brake booster connection?
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post #12 of 27 Old 05-20-2019, 09:27 PM
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Re: Just replaced spider assembly; misfiring even worse now; ODB2 readings

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How can I figure out what size o-ring I need for that brake booster connection?
Either take the old one to a hardware store, or go to the dealer.
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post #13 of 27 Old 05-20-2019, 09:30 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Just replaced spider assembly; misfiring even worse now; ODB2 readings

The old one is kind of stretched out. I guess I'll try calling the dealer parts dept. tomorrow.
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post #14 of 27 Old 05-20-2019, 10:20 PM
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Re: Just replaced spider assembly; misfiring even worse now; ODB2 readings

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Originally Posted by jej1997 View Post
Thanks for this suggestion. I have found at least two problems so far.

One is a 7/32" hose that was obviously decayed. Not sure what it is, other than that it holds a vacuum and it goes in near where the PCV valve hose goes in. I replaced it.

Then I noticed there was a loud hissing sound near where the brake boost vacuum hose goes in. (At least that's what I think it is.) It needs a new o-ring.

Got any advice for how to identify all of these hoses and systematically look for vacuum leaks?
Are you talking about the O ring on the manifold fitting?

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post #15 of 27 Old 05-20-2019, 10:27 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Just replaced spider assembly; misfiring even worse now; ODB2 readings

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Are you talking about the O ring on the manifold fitting?
Yes.
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post #16 of 27 Old 05-20-2019, 10:36 PM
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Re: Just replaced spider assembly; misfiring even worse now; ODB2 readings

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Yes.
Make sure the fitting is locked in place on the manifold. You can pick them up at the j/y for a buck or two...get several.
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post #17 of 27 Old 05-21-2019, 11:18 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Just replaced spider assembly; misfiring even worse now; ODB2 readings

I'm thinking I might need more than an o-ring. In
you can see some orange sealing parts, but on mine there's just an orange residue.
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post #18 of 27 Old 05-21-2019, 11:40 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Just replaced spider assembly; misfiring even worse now; ODB2 readings

Mine are shown here: https://imgur.com/a/wnjvBnk

There is some orange stuff in the slot where the o-ring used to be. Is that just orange paint, or does it matter?
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post #19 of 27 Old 05-21-2019, 11:55 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Just replaced spider assembly; misfiring even worse now; ODB2 readings

The dealer will sell me the o-ring for $2.44. Posting the part number for posterity: 24500514

I really hate the 10-minute editing timeout on this forum. Do I need to paint something on there to replace the orange stuff to make a good seal?
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post #20 of 27 Old 05-21-2019, 12:01 PM
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Re: Just replaced spider assembly; misfiring even worse now; ODB2 readings

Just put a little engine oil on it..
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post #21 of 27 Old 05-22-2019, 06:50 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Just replaced spider assembly; misfiring even worse now; ODB2 readings

Well, the hissing noise is gone now, but otherwise, no improvement.

I'm going to take it to a shop tomorrow and have them run the fuel injector balance test, just as a sanity check to make sure I didn't install a highly defective spider assembly.

Any advice on how to proceed after that would be welcome.
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post #22 of 27 Old 05-22-2019, 06:55 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Just replaced spider assembly; misfiring even worse now; ODB2 readings

Does the fact that the misfiring cylinder changes with engine RPM suggest a timing problem?
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post #23 of 27 Old 05-23-2019, 06:41 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Just replaced spider assembly; misfiring even worse now; ODB2 readings

If anyone is still reading this, I finally took the intake plenum back off and verified that the fuel injectors were in the correct holes.

However, I noted that I had forgotten to put on the gasket between the spider assembly and the intake plenum. D'oh! This is the level of incompetence we are dealing with here, folks.

I don't think the main intake plenum gasket was seated very well, either. It looked like some gas had leaked under it, and it was a little loose which made it very difficult to keep it in place while installing the intake plenum. So I put some oil on it and stuck the whole plenum in the fridge for an hour, and that helped. I'm pretty sure all of my vacuum seals are good now.

But it's still misfiring.
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post #24 of 27 Old 05-23-2019, 08:24 PM
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Re: Just replaced spider assembly; misfiring even worse now; ODB2 readings

There was need to put it in the fridge. Wiggling the spider while applying pressure tp the manifold will help slip into place.

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post #25 of 27 Old 05-23-2019, 10:03 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Just replaced spider assembly; misfiring even worse now; ODB2 readings

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However, I noted that I had forgotten to put on the gasket between the spider assembly and the intake plenum. D'oh! This is the level of incompetence we are dealing with here, folks.
Oh, crap. I just watched a video of myself doing the original installation. I didn't forget the gasket. So where is it? I think I know.
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post #26 of 27 Old 05-29-2019, 02:22 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Just replaced spider assembly; misfiring even worse now; ODB2 readings

Paid $95 today to have a mechanic run the fuel injector balance test and tell me injector 1 is not delivering fuel.

Sending back the Chinese garbage to Amazon.
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post #27 of 27 Old 05-29-2019, 03:14 PM
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Re: Just replaced spider assembly; misfiring even worse now; ODB2 readings

AC/Delco or Delphi only.
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