help! Water pump removal, what am i missing - S-10 Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 22 Old 09-22-2014, 02:37 PM Thread Starter
overthinker extraordinar
 
jcricket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: littleton colorado
Age: 54
Posts: 650

User is: jcricket is offline
help! Water pump removal, what am i missing

Hey Folks,
I ma trying ot replkace the water pump on my 85 2.8 s1o, I have reoved all of the bolts. It WILL NOT BUDGE. I even tried a pipe wrench to see if I could rotate it and break the seal 0 the aluminum fins gave way first. I have used a mirror and checked for any missed bolts, none. I double checked against the new water pump, yep I got them all.

Am I missing something?

Can the housing, timing chain cover be removed with the water pump on it? Maybe I could separate them once the are out of the car.
Thoughts?

time for a break anyways.......
mark

jcricket is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 22 Old 09-22-2014, 03:30 PM Thread Starter
overthinker extraordinar
 
jcricket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: littleton colorado
Age: 54
Posts: 650

User is: jcricket is offline
Re: help! Water pump removal, what am i missing

I was able to get the timing chain cover with the water pump attached out of the truck, no problem. I still cannot get the cover and pump to separate. I am thinking of trying a propane torch and ice water to see if I can cause them to break apart.
jcricket is offline  
post #3 of 22 Old 09-22-2014, 03:59 PM Thread Starter
overthinker extraordinar
 
jcricket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: littleton colorado
Age: 54
Posts: 650

User is: jcricket is offline
Re: help! Water pump removal, what am i missing

eureka, I got it.
I had to use a 3/8" extension and push it between a bolt hold and a lip then pry. It took a little oomph, but it popped. There is some kind of sealant on here that I do not recognize. It almost looks like liquid nails. Weird.

I am going to soak this in acetone overnight and see if it will loosen up the old sealant a bit.
jcricket is offline  
 
post #4 of 22 Old 09-22-2014, 04:11 PM
Boozebag
 
Mad Max's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Saipan (!)
Posts: 8,927

User is: Mad Max is offline
Re: help! Water pump removal, what am i missing

That sealant is WAY old skool. It's called "Indian Head" shelac.

It's sort of redish brown and seals HARD. You can still buy it, but it has been overtaken by RTV silicone sealer.
If you had heated the edges of the pump with a propane torch, it would have popped more easily.

BTW, check your timing chain. I bet it's WAY stretched.

S10 addiction:
1)'82 S10, 383, 700R4, Shorty
2) '85 S10, 3.4, 700R4 4x4 stretch cab (Redneck)
3) '90 S10 2.5, 5 speed shorty
4) '91 S10, Built 3.4, 5 speed shorty (Voodoo)
5) '92 S10, 2.5, 5 speed shorty, (Barbie)
6) '92 S10, 2.5 5 speed, Shorty
7) 1979 LUV, Buick 3.8 V6, TH 350 Shorty.
Mad Max is offline  
post #5 of 22 Old 09-22-2014, 06:04 PM Thread Starter
overthinker extraordinar
 
jcricket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: littleton colorado
Age: 54
Posts: 650

User is: jcricket is offline
Re: help! Water pump removal, what am i missing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max View Post
That sealant is WAY old skool. It's called "Indian Head" shelac.

It's sort of redish brown and seals HARD. You can still buy it, but it has been overtaken by RTV silicone sealer.
If you had heated the edges of the pump with a propane torch, it would have popped more easily.

BTW, check your timing chain. I bet it's WAY stretched.
yeah it is redish brown. I literally thought it might have been liquid nails and then browned by the oil.
how do you check it? Should it be snug? Or should there be a little play in it?
jcricket is offline  
post #6 of 22 Old 09-22-2014, 07:41 PM Thread Starter
overthinker extraordinar
 
jcricket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: littleton colorado
Age: 54
Posts: 650

User is: jcricket is offline
Re: help! Water pump removal, what am i missing

I just checked and the timing chain is $23. For that I am just going to replace it. The amount of work to get to it justifies doing it now while I have it open.

thanks for the suggestion.

85 S10 Durango 2.8L extcab rwd 36k actual miles.
"true wisdom is knowing you know nothing" Paraphrased from Socrates
jcricket is offline  
post #7 of 22 Old 09-22-2014, 08:32 PM
Registered User
 
5'n'dime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Moose Jaw,SK
Age: 53
Posts: 1,217

User is: 5'n'dime is offline
Re: help! Water pump removal, what am i missing

Oops, sorry I pmed you before I saw this thread the timing chain went on my first blazer 2.8 and I got worse than stranded in a blizzard. A co-worker offered to pull me home-at 50 mph in town with 8" ruts in the road!

WIP-'82 S15 LB 350 Vortec, narrowed Ranger 3.55 posi 8.8, mustang gt rear discs, ZQ8 bars, jeep shaft, 2/3 drop. Working on Vortec FI and NV3500 swaps.
5'n'dime is offline  
post #8 of 22 Old 09-22-2014, 09:23 PM Thread Starter
overthinker extraordinar
 
jcricket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: littleton colorado
Age: 54
Posts: 650

User is: jcricket is offline
Re: help! Water pump removal, what am i missing

here are a few pics of the mess I have created. I noticed I had about ten degrees movement on the crank before the timing chain was tight enough to begin moving the cam.
I am sure changing it is a good idea now.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4653.jpg
Views:	57
Size:	96.4 KB
ID:	191426   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4654.jpg
Views:	46
Size:	95.6 KB
ID:	191434   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4655.jpg
Views:	50
Size:	81.1 KB
ID:	191442   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4656.jpg
Views:	44
Size:	85.3 KB
ID:	191450   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4657.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	98.2 KB
ID:	191458  


85 S10 Durango 2.8L extcab rwd 36k actual miles.
"true wisdom is knowing you know nothing" Paraphrased from Socrates
jcricket is offline  
post #9 of 22 Old 09-23-2014, 09:34 AM
4 Year Intermediate Tech
 
greasemonkeys10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: mountain home arkansas
Age: 28
Posts: 1,829

User is: greasemonkeys10 is offline
Re: help! Water pump removal, what am i missing

Indian head is hard to take off with a scraper. I usually use a dremel tool and a stone bit.

1985 2.8L V6 S10 completely restored with 65,000 miles on body, frame, and rear axle. Weber 38 DGES Powered SOLD

1989 Nissan D21 Z24i 8 Wire Wonder

1995 Chevy S10 ext cab 4.3 Z 40,000 Miles On Rebuild.
greasemonkeys10 is offline  
post #10 of 22 Old 09-23-2014, 09:59 AM
Boozebag
 
Mad Max's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Saipan (!)
Posts: 8,927

User is: Mad Max is offline
Re: help! Water pump removal, what am i missing

If you are not in a terrible rush, I would recommend a Cloyes "True Roller" timing set. They last alot longer than the stock type chain set. They are more expensive though - by a shot.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cloyes-Origi...#ht_1533wt_870

S10 addiction:
1)'82 S10, 383, 700R4, Shorty
2) '85 S10, 3.4, 700R4 4x4 stretch cab (Redneck)
3) '90 S10 2.5, 5 speed shorty
4) '91 S10, Built 3.4, 5 speed shorty (Voodoo)
5) '92 S10, 2.5, 5 speed shorty, (Barbie)
6) '92 S10, 2.5 5 speed, Shorty
7) 1979 LUV, Buick 3.8 V6, TH 350 Shorty.
Mad Max is offline  
post #11 of 22 Old 09-23-2014, 03:10 PM Thread Starter
overthinker extraordinar
 
jcricket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: littleton colorado
Age: 54
Posts: 650

User is: jcricket is offline
Re: help! Water pump removal, what am i missing

I already bought he cloys "stock type" chain. I will remember this for the next go around, on my next truck

I just installed the new chain. The old chain had at least ten times as much play as the new one. I am excited to see how differently she runs. I am now waiting for the acetone and gasket remover to work. Maybe tomorrow I'll get it pll put back together.
thanks again,
mark

85 S10 Durango 2.8L extcab rwd 36k actual miles.
"true wisdom is knowing you know nothing" Paraphrased from Socrates
jcricket is offline  
post #12 of 22 Old 09-24-2014, 08:48 PM Thread Starter
overthinker extraordinar
 
jcricket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: littleton colorado
Age: 54
Posts: 650

User is: jcricket is offline
Re: help! Water pump removal, what am i missing

It has been one of those days. I re-installed the timing chain cover, the water pump, front main seal, and harmonic balancer.

I found an awesome homemade tool to install the front main seal. A 2" piece of PVC pipe. I cut about a 3" long piece on my chop saw so that both ends were square/parallel. It worked like a dream. The harmonic balancer was another story. I got it all the way installed and started to put the crank pulley on, the threads for the bolts are different than the old harmonic balancer. The one that was in the car used M10x1.5. The new one uses M10x1.0. Further, these are grade 9.8 bolts. Nobody in town had them. Well, I did find a dealer with them but they were almost $5 each. I went on line and found a place in Massachusetts that had them for $0.81 each. Shipping was $8 though
So now the truck is on hole until I get the bolts.............

85 S10 Durango 2.8L extcab rwd 36k actual miles.
"true wisdom is knowing you know nothing" Paraphrased from Socrates
jcricket is offline  
post #13 of 22 Old 09-24-2014, 09:48 PM
Registered User
 
LilReb83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 347

User is: LilReb83 is offline
Re: help! Water pump removal, what am i missing

I feel your pain. I went thru the same hassle on my 83 2.8. Except I noticed the actual timing cover where the lower radiator hose goes in was gummed up and had a crack (causing a leak). So I looked all over for a new cover and all they had out there was the different designed (goodwrench) style timing cover which dorman made. Ended up going on ebay and found a used one that was a reman for 70 bucks. What a time that was. Never again lol....

1983 GMC S-15 4wd 4 speed 2.8L V6 Carbed
'Keep the wheels spinnin and the beavers grinnin'
We know when this country of ours has gone downhill when they start to ban american history
LilReb83 is offline  
post #14 of 22 Old 09-25-2014, 09:42 AM
Boozebag
 
Mad Max's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Saipan (!)
Posts: 8,927

User is: Mad Max is offline
Re: help! Water pump removal, what am i missing

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcricket View Post
It has been one of those days. I re-installed the timing chain cover, the water pump, front main seal, and harmonic balancer.

I found an awesome homemade tool to install the front main seal. A 2" piece of PVC pipe. I cut about a 3" long piece on my chop saw so that both ends were square/parallel. It worked like a dream. The harmonic balancer was another story. I got it all the way installed and started to put the crank pulley on, the threads for the bolts are different than the old harmonic balancer. The one that was in the car used M10x1.5. The new one uses M10x1.0. Further, these are grade 9.8 bolts. Nobody in town had them. Well, I did find a dealer with them but they were almost $5 each. I went on line and found a place in Massachusetts that had them for $0.81 each. Shipping was $8 though
So now the truck is on hole until I get the bolts.............
I don't want to rain on your parade...
but... it is not critical to have grade 9.8 bolts for this application. You could have gone to the local fastener supply house (hardware store) or even a parts supermarket (No zone or oreallys, even no advantage and NAPA - never a part around) and bought the bolts you needed. They usually have at least 8.8s.
There is not a real large amount of torque put on these bolts. Once they are tight, they stay static...
Now... if it is the flywheel or flexplate or a pressure palte... these NEEDS high grade fasteners.

S10 addiction:
1)'82 S10, 383, 700R4, Shorty
2) '85 S10, 3.4, 700R4 4x4 stretch cab (Redneck)
3) '90 S10 2.5, 5 speed shorty
4) '91 S10, Built 3.4, 5 speed shorty (Voodoo)
5) '92 S10, 2.5, 5 speed shorty, (Barbie)
6) '92 S10, 2.5 5 speed, Shorty
7) 1979 LUV, Buick 3.8 V6, TH 350 Shorty.
Mad Max is offline  
post #15 of 22 Old 09-25-2014, 11:40 AM
4 Year Intermediate Tech
 
greasemonkeys10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: mountain home arkansas
Age: 28
Posts: 1,829

User is: greasemonkeys10 is offline
Re: help! Water pump removal, what am i missing

Odessa cylinder head supply has brand new non good wrench timing covers for the old 2.8's

1985 2.8L V6 S10 completely restored with 65,000 miles on body, frame, and rear axle. Weber 38 DGES Powered SOLD

1989 Nissan D21 Z24i 8 Wire Wonder

1995 Chevy S10 ext cab 4.3 Z 40,000 Miles On Rebuild.
greasemonkeys10 is offline  
post #16 of 22 Old 09-25-2014, 12:05 PM
Registered User
 
LilReb83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 347

User is: LilReb83 is offline
Re: help! Water pump removal, what am i missing

thats good to know. when i did mine i was worried as hell thinkin o crap they dont make them new any more? but ill remember that next time somethin happens hopefully not.

1983 GMC S-15 4wd 4 speed 2.8L V6 Carbed
'Keep the wheels spinnin and the beavers grinnin'
We know when this country of ours has gone downhill when they start to ban american history
LilReb83 is offline  
post #17 of 22 Old 09-25-2014, 09:36 PM Thread Starter
overthinker extraordinar
 
jcricket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: littleton colorado
Age: 54
Posts: 650

User is: jcricket is offline
Re: help! Water pump removal, what am i missing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max View Post
I don't want to rain on your parade...
but... it is not critical to have grade 9.8 bolts for this application. You could have gone to the local fastener supply house (hardware store) or even a parts supermarket (No zone or oreallys, even no advantage and NAPA - never a part around) and bought the bolts you needed. They usually have at least 8.8s.
There is not a real large amount of torque put on these bolts. Once they are tight, they stay static...
Now... if it is the flywheel or flexplate or a pressure palte... these NEEDS high grade fasteners.
You got a chuckle out of me with that stuff in red.

I called napa and autozone, all they had was grade 5 bolts. They still wanted $4 for four of them. It is okay, it gives me a chance to work on interior stuff while I wait for the bolts. Got the stereo in today.

85 S10 Durango 2.8L extcab rwd 36k actual miles.
"true wisdom is knowing you know nothing" Paraphrased from Socrates
jcricket is offline  
post #18 of 22 Old 09-30-2014, 01:51 PM
Awww..you ain't got shit!
 
jimmykicker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: McCalla, Alabama
Age: 48
Posts: 3,246

User is: jimmykicker is offline
Re: help! Water pump removal, what am i missing

So this was a good thing the cover was stuck then...funny how that works out sometimes.

My chain on my old 2.8 was so freaking worn out, I could not believe it didn't jump time or wasn't hitting the cover...Unbelievable.



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Custom exhaust, shift kit, e-fan.


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer_X View Post
I had to cut my nut in half .
jimmykicker is offline  
post #19 of 22 Old 09-30-2014, 02:18 PM Thread Starter
overthinker extraordinar
 
jcricket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: littleton colorado
Age: 54
Posts: 650

User is: jcricket is offline
Re: help! Water pump removal, what am i missing

Yep, it was a good thing. What I find curious is that the chain was so stretched that it was hitting the cover. Add in the old sealant and a missing valve cover gasket and what do you get?
Not an original motor with only 35k miles on it. At least I am beginning to suspect some foul play.

Can a timing chain stretch enough in 35k miles to be loose enough to be hitting the cover and guards?

85 S10 Durango 2.8L extcab rwd 36k actual miles.
"true wisdom is knowing you know nothing" Paraphrased from Socrates
jcricket is offline  
post #20 of 22 Old 09-30-2014, 04:43 PM
Awww..you ain't got shit!
 
jimmykicker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: McCalla, Alabama
Age: 48
Posts: 3,246

User is: jimmykicker is offline
Re: help! Water pump removal, what am i missing

Missing valve cover gasket? As in not there?? I bet that didn't leak a drop!



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Custom exhaust, shift kit, e-fan.


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer_X View Post
I had to cut my nut in half .
jimmykicker is offline  
post #21 of 22 Old 09-30-2014, 06:11 PM Thread Starter
overthinker extraordinar
 
jcricket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: littleton colorado
Age: 54
Posts: 650

User is: jcricket is offline
Re: help! Water pump removal, what am i missing

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmykicker View Post
Missing valve cover gasket? As in not there?? I bet that didn't leak a drop!
as in a little dabble of RTV on the right cover and a gasket on the left cover.
And you are right it did not leak A drop. It leaked lots of drops.

85 S10 Durango 2.8L extcab rwd 36k actual miles.
"true wisdom is knowing you know nothing" Paraphrased from Socrates
jcricket is offline  
post #22 of 22 Old 10-01-2014, 09:15 AM
Awww..you ain't got shit!
 
jimmykicker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: McCalla, Alabama
Age: 48
Posts: 3,246

User is: jimmykicker is offline
Re: help! Water pump removal, what am i missing

Wow...that's horrible. Now I don't advocate a ton of RTV on 60 degree V6s...but I do advocate gaskets! A little dab where the head meets the intake on that one side is all you need. I think it actually seals way better that way.



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Custom exhaust, shift kit, e-fan.


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer_X View Post
I had to cut my nut in half .
jimmykicker is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the S-10 Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address.


Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome