Fuel pump swap - S-10 Forum
 
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post #1 of 24 Old 05-30-2019, 06:27 PM Thread Starter
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Fuel pump swap

As many of you know, I retrofitted my 1984 S10 truck to fuel injection about six years ago. The truck runs great mostly, although if you drive it for about 45 minutes and then park it and leave it sitting for about 20 minutes or so, it’s held to get started and it runs like complete crap for a minute or so and then runs fine again. It’s important to note that the truck doesn’t have a factory pump on it like a 1986 or newer. It has a Holley Pump and it is on a regulator so that it’s at the specified pressure. When I have noticed is that there are some differences between the tanks’ Sending units. Apparently on the newer trucks the 1/4 line is For the emissions and the 5/16 Line is for the fuel return. On the older trucks it is the reverse of this. When I connected all of this stuff, i used the 5/16 since the TBI line fit it and plugged the 1/4 line. Apparently the return fuel is trying to push fuel through that little emissions gizmo on the sending unit. Betting this is my problem. I’m about to lift the bed and swap to a regular pump and straighten all that out.

Question. Do you guys have a preference on how to change one? It appears to me that either removing the bed or at least jacking it up and pivoting it away from the body might be easier than trying to do this from under the truck. Those hoses look like they’d be **** to get off and on. Note too I’m thinking about replacing the 35 year old tank too. Rock Auto shows a different part number, but really? Are they not the same??

Thanks in advance guys.




1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Custom exhaust, shift kit, e-fan.


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
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post #2 of 24 Old 05-30-2019, 06:36 PM
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Re: Fuel pump swap

Tilt or take the bed off. You can check all of the other lines and wires easily that way.

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post #3 of 24 Old 05-30-2019, 08:16 PM Thread Starter
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Bout what I figured. It was **** getting a part out at PAP to look at it. Here’s what I determined is going on. Don’t flame me on this. I know what I did was wrong and why I have this problem now.

So the way it runs now, the return line is hooked up correctly for fuel return but where the 5/16 line is connected at the tank is the emissions restrictor. The 1/4 line that’s supposed to be for the vent? Well...it’s plugged at the engine. Yes. I did it. In my ignorance i didn’t think i needed that “smog stuff”. Apparently i do. Pretty sure hot *** fuel and boiling is causing my run like **** condition. So off to order parts I go.

Or....it’s abundantly clear that my Holley pump doesn’t need return fuel to cool it....so, why couldn’t I just feed the return line back down the 1/4” line like factory and plumb the canister with the 5/16 as designed on the carbed sender? Other than the return fuel aerating the fuel a bit since it’s not plumbed to the bottom of the tank, what harm would that cause really??

Your thought my friends.



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Custom exhaust, shift kit, e-fan.


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
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post #4 of 24 Old 05-31-2019, 01:21 AM
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Re: Fuel pump swap

Try it and see what happens. Keep a fire extinguisher handy.
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post #5 of 24 Old 05-31-2019, 01:09 PM Thread Starter
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I’m assuming they swapped to the larger line due to the pressure being somewhat up from the mechanical pump. Seeing that all this time it’s been forcing it down the emissions port and that’s almost completely blocked by the restrictor in the original sending unit, my guess is that it should flow freer than that. Worth a try. I ordered the adapters. I will report back.

I NEVER drive a car without a fire extinguisher by the way. I had this truck almost go up in flames about 2005 from a stick Rochester float valve when it was carbureted. Very scary indeed. I also pulled a guy out of a burning Mustang once. He’d been burned to death had it not been for me and another guy that were there. Damn drunk. Fell asleep at the wheel. Blood alcohol was .28!! That’s near death and more than 3x the legal limit here in Alabama. He was coming towards me and veered off into a telephone pole. Could have veered into me and I’d be dead. Fire extinguishers are a good thing to have. For many reasons.



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Custom exhaust, shift kit, e-fan.


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
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I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #6 of 24 Old 05-31-2019, 02:21 PM Thread Starter
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And one the aerating issue. Swapping back to the 1/4 line is the way the original mechanical return is plumbed. The original return is NOT fed to the bottom of the tank. It dumps it back in same way. At least that’s the way every image I have seen is. Note the far most two right hose connectors. The larger one of the two is the 5/8 that plumbs back to the canister for emissions and the 1/4 is the return line. Notice how it just dumps into the tank? It’s not submerged in fuel. So what **** difference would it make vs fuel injection doing it this way? What’s the harm really is my question.
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1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Custom exhaust, shift kit, e-fan.


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
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I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #7 of 24 Old 05-31-2019, 02:40 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys. Seriously appreciate the advice.



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Custom exhaust, shift kit, e-fan.


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
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I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #8 of 24 Old 06-01-2019, 10:37 AM
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Re: Fuel pump swap

Hello,

I converted my truck's 2.8V6 to TBI in 1995, and ran into this issue. I used a factory in-tank pump assembly but didn't notice the return and canister line size change, so I was returning fuel via the canister line and venting the tank with the return line. The truck ran okay but decided to push fuel from the tank into the canister. You definitely need to make sure the return line from the fuel rail is connected to the return line at the tank.

On the EFI sending units, fuel is returned to the bottom of the tank.

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post #9 of 24 Old 06-01-2019, 02:34 PM
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Re: Fuel pump swap

Definitely pull the bed, it makes the job a dream to do. Good luck with the fix, hope it solves your issues.
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post #10 of 24 Old 06-01-2019, 03:20 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwvess-- View Post
Hello,

I converted my truck's 2.8V6 to TBI in 1995, and ran into this issue. I used a factory in-tank pump assembly but didn't notice the return and canister line size change, so I was returning fuel via the canister line and venting the tank with the return line. The truck ran okay but decided to push fuel from the tank into the canister. You definitely need to make sure the return line from the fuel rail is connected to the return line at the tank.

On the EFI sending units, fuel is returned to the bottom of the tank.
Yeah. I did exactly what you did except the 1/4 canister line is plugged (which is actually the return on the carbureted tank sender). Yes I’m an idiot. Since I’m using an external pump I can’t see why I can’t just use the 1/4 as designed for 84 for return and the 5/8 for the canister as designed and not bother swapping to an in-tank pump. It’s **** easy to swap one on the outside vs in tank when time arrives. Literally it’s a 20 minute fix vs and all day fiasco. So in that light i don’t really want to do the swap if it is avoidable. The truck runs just fine except when idling after 45 minutes or starting after letting it sit hot for a while. I’m feeling pretty certain that this is my problem.


And I’m wrong. It’s a Carter pump.

What I’m wondering is what’s the difference? In that I mean, why is it ok to drop the fuel back up from the top of the tank as designed for the 84 with a mechanical pump vs having it return from the bottom of the tank as it is on an EFI truck. And since my pump is external does it really make a difference? If so, why? Please understand I’m not trying to be condescending either. Curious.

Also I’m guessing since that carb sender isn’t designed the same way as the EFI is then in your case pressurized fuel was vaporizing into the canister? Had to be since it’s at the very top of the tank. At least every image I’ve seen shows it that way.

By the way, if you could talk to me on the phone about this it would be kinda awesome. If you can PM me your number I’d like to pick your brain a little since you know my shituation exactly.

Thanks guys.



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Custom exhaust, shift kit, e-fan.


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
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I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #11 of 24 Old 06-01-2019, 03:25 PM Thread Starter
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Definitely pull the bed, it makes the job a dream to do. Good luck with the fix, hope it solves your issues.
Thanks. Sure looks like that’s the easiest way

I got these little adapters from Jegs. I’m gonna upsize/downsize the lines and see if this fixes my issue. My thoughts on it are that it will be fine. But I’ve been wrong before! The way I have it now, the tank isn’t venting at all. If it doesn’t then I guess I will be doing a bed take off. Grrr.
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1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Custom exhaust, shift kit, e-fan.


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
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I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #12 of 24 Old 06-01-2019, 03:37 PM Thread Starter
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Oh. And one more question. Can someone tell me how that purge system is plumbed? The 88 canister I got is marked but the 84 is not. How does it hook to the TBI? Is there a purge valve? Every diagram I see doesn’t show one. On the 2.5 trucks it does, but not the V6. Searches find nothing. Is it hooked straight to the TBI??



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Custom exhaust, shift kit, e-fan.


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
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I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #13 of 24 Old 06-01-2019, 03:54 PM Thread Starter
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I just reread this. Said you used a factory type pump. I can see why you got fuel in your canister since the EFI module is submerged in fuel. If the tank became pressurized it could not escape through the correct port and the path of least resistance is the 5/16 line and that connects to the canister. I’d had this same problem had the 1/4 line not been plugged. I’ve noticed that when the truck is slap full of gas it smell of gasoline bigtime. Well, if you have it like me, and that line is plugged and that check valve on the restrictor floats up and plugs the hole, then you have a situation where fumes are trapped in the tank. Guessing they were leaking past the 35 year old o ring then. Sounds safe doesn’t it.



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Custom exhaust, shift kit, e-fan.


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
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I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #14 of 24 Old 06-04-2019, 12:05 AM Thread Starter
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Oh. And one more question. Can someone tell me how that purge system is plumbed? The 88 canister I got is marked but the 84 is not. How does it hook to the TBI? Is there a purge valve? Every diagram I see doesn’t show one. On the 2.5 trucks it does, but not the V6. Searches find nothing. Is it hooked straight to the TBI??
Anybody got an answer about whether there is a purge valve or not? My truck was in pieces when I got it in 1997. I don’t know if his was connected at all let alone correct when it was carbureted. It sure wasn’t fuel injected so I’m even more lost as to how this was plumbed. That and the TBI unit is from a 4.3 Astro van and it has less vac ports than the S-10.

Any assistance is more than appreciated!



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Custom exhaust, shift kit, e-fan.


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
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I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #15 of 24 Old 06-10-2019, 09:30 AM Thread Starter
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Anyone? Does the 2.8 have a purge valve? Anyone got any images of how this is plumbed? My truck is at shop having exhaust fixed now. Want to get on this as soon as she comes home. Can’t find really what I’m looking for.



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Custom exhaust, shift kit, e-fan.


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
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I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #16 of 24 Old 06-11-2019, 11:58 PM Thread Starter
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1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Custom exhaust, shift kit, e-fan.


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
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I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #17 of 24 Old 06-12-2019, 12:37 AM
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Re: Fuel pump swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmykicker View Post
Anyone? Does the 2.8 have a purge valve? Anyone got any images of how this is plumbed? My truck is at shop having exhaust fixed now. Want to get on this as soon as she comes home. Canít find really what Iím looking for.
Purge valve for what?

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post #18 of 24 Old 06-12-2019, 01:01 AM
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Re: Fuel pump swap

JK,
the 84 was a carb truck and did not have a purge valve. When they went to TBI, they added the purge.


Pix of your custom exhaust work?

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post #19 of 24 Old 06-12-2019, 02:34 AM Thread Starter
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It should be back tomorrow. Will post it! Been a long time coming. So tired of that loud leaking *** header tone!

Max, see if you can find a part number? I can’t find any evidence of any such part existing. I see one for the four cylinder trucks but not the v6 trucks...?? That’s why I’m asking for some pics etc. I cannot recall ever seeing one at a junkyard etc and I’m pretty familiar with it.



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Custom exhaust, shift kit, e-fan.


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
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I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #20 of 24 Old 06-13-2019, 01:33 AM
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Re: Fuel pump swap

I'm trying to remember where I saw it... IIRC, look up by the gas tank top. I think it's on one of the bed rails.
Ooops, your truck doesn't have one.
I wish I could help, but I moved to Saipan last October and I haven't seen one first gen here yet.
I've seen 2 second gen PUs and this:


I phones SUCK! Can someone fix this please?


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post #21 of 24 Old 06-13-2019, 01:42 AM
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Re: Fuel pump swap

Best I could do...

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post #22 of 24 Old 06-14-2019, 09:22 AM Thread Starter
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Truck is back from exhaust shop. Have to crawl under and take some pictures. It’s a beautiful thing guys. Incredible work. All custom. Here’s a shot of the back.

But my question is that is there is supposed to be a purge valve under the hood by the TBI? No part number exists that I can find. Does the charcoal canister then directly plumb to the TBI?

Inquiring minds want to know.....
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1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Custom exhaust, shift kit, e-fan.


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer_X View Post
I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #23 of 24 Old 06-14-2019, 10:55 AM
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Re: Fuel pump swap

Max said yours doesn't have one.

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post #24 of 24 Old 06-14-2019, 02:13 PM Thread Starter
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That’s what I got from that. I guess if that’s the case you plumb is straight back into the intake. We will see how this goes...

Say a prayer.



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Custom exhaust, shift kit, e-fan.


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
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I had to cut my nut in half .
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