Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help - Page 2 - S-10 Forum
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post #51 of 409 Old 03-22-2013, 07:09 PM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

i cant remember the size of the hole off hand, i just measured the grommet to find the size.

originally the bracket was mounted on the TB but when I put the 3.4 together I didnt use the breather spacer, and the 4.3 housing hit the bracket.


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post #52 of 409 Old 03-22-2013, 07:18 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

34blazer, this is what I was referring to. I wasn't clear on it I think. I hate communication on my phone...The posts look to be in the same place. Can I just use this throttle mount without swapping?


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1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
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I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #53 of 409 Old 03-22-2013, 07:37 PM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

do you have access to a welder?

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post #54 of 409 Old 03-22-2013, 08:30 PM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

You'll have to swap throttle shafts and cable brackets.

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post #55 of 409 Old 03-22-2013, 08:55 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Yeah, 34blazer, I have a Lincoln tombstone arc welder. I suck at it, but can make it work. Raven, yeah, I know about the bracket. Easy enough on that...but how does that shaft come out?



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
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I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #56 of 409 Old 03-22-2013, 09:07 PM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

it would probably be quicker and easier to swap the throttle shaft brackets. grind the peened edge off, and the bracket should slide right off. then tack weld it

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'97 Ram SS/T 360/.030 over.
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post #57 of 409 Old 03-22-2013, 09:11 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

In other words, don't pull the shaft out? Just cut it off both TBI and put the S10 one on the Astro one? I think that would be the best route...as said earlier, me and spring loaded things aren't the best of friends.

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and the truck is ready to go.


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1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
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I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #58 of 409 Old 03-22-2013, 09:35 PM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

well, i hope you didnt mean cut the shaft LOL. the end of the shaft is "mushroomed" over to hold the bracket on. some light grinding will remove it.

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post #59 of 409 Old 03-22-2013, 09:58 PM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

For my 4.3 TBI I had to switch the arm with the 2.8 type, I went to the JY got a 4.3 tb and hacked off the arm from a 2.8 TB (I like keeping parts for god knows what reason (My TBI))

Used a grinder and grinded off the stop weld for the 4.3 Bracket, punched out the left over arm on the 2.8 bracket. And then had two perfect pieces to go togethor, so I spot welded the 2.8 bracket onto the 4.3 TB.

Would suggest hitting it with clear coat, as the zinc coating is destroyed by the heat of the weld

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post #60 of 409 Old 03-22-2013, 10:03 PM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

May have already been said but unless you got the TB from a Astro that was in a production for a very limited amount of time, then your going to have to convert the Throttle position sensor wires from your harness type to the newer TBI type, they sell a converter on amazon so you don't have to cut the wires and make it look ugly.

Again this may not apply to you depending on what you have.

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post #61 of 409 Old 03-22-2013, 10:18 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Quote:
Originally Posted by 34blazer View Post
well, i hope you didnt mean cut the shaft LOL. the end of the shaft is "mushroomed" over to hold the bracket on. some light grinding will remove it.
Yes, that is what I meant. . Basically grinding that mushroom off it, it will fall off on both TBIs with the shape left the same to swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by iwillnc View Post
May have already been said but unless you got the TB from a Astro that was in a production for a very limited amount of time, then your going to have to convert the Throttle position sensor wires from your harness type to the newer TBI type, they sell a converter on amazon so you don't have to cut the wires and make it look ugly..

Yeah, it's from like a 98. I will swap the plugs. No biggie for me. If I am not mistaken too, there isn't much or any adjustment on those TPS sensors....

Also, I don't wanna have things that worry me on the truck when I am attempting to start it. Is there a way to test the distributor module? The ECM? Thanks



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
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I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #62 of 409 Old 03-22-2013, 10:50 PM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Swapping the shaft is quite easy. The only thing to watch out for is whether the bottom of the screws that hold the throttle plates on are welded or not. If they are a few minutes with a Dremel will take care of that. When re-assembling, a little Lok-Tite and you're good.

Takes less than 10 minutes usually.

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post #63 of 409 Old 03-22-2013, 11:06 PM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Any of you that have done this swap, have you actually used any software to watch what your blm/int, o2, and spark tables look like?

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3.4l, Edelbrock intake, a 4.3l throttle body controlled by an '88 TBI ECM. 700R4 with 3.73 rear. Real time tuning using a CF-30 Toughbook with a Moates Ostrich 2 emulator.
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post #64 of 409 Old 03-22-2013, 11:47 PM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

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Any of you that have done this swap, have you actually used any software to watch what your blm/int, o2, and spark tables look like?
$42 found on gearhead efi's site

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post #65 of 409 Old 03-22-2013, 11:51 PM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

$42 is for 1227747, $4e is for 1228062.

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post #66 of 409 Old 03-23-2013, 12:00 AM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

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$42 is for 1227747, $4e is for 1228062.
LOL no kidding. im using a 7747 with $42, with a modified 4.3 binary on my 3.4. more support for $42. either way a fully commented $4E bin/xdf/adx should be up at gearhead efi

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post #67 of 409 Old 03-23-2013, 12:18 AM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

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Originally Posted by 34blazer View Post
LOL no kidding. im using a 7747 with $42, with a modified 4.3 binary on my 3.4. more support for $42. either way a fully commented $4E bin/xdf/adx should be up at gearhead efi
I'd ask to see that bin in tunerpro, but my 3.4 is pretty much stock.....

1985 GMC S-15 Gypsy ext cab.
3.4l, Edelbrock intake, a 4.3l throttle body controlled by an '88 TBI ECM. 700R4 with 3.73 rear. Real time tuning using a CF-30 Toughbook with a Moates Ostrich 2 emulator.
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post #68 of 409 Old 03-23-2013, 12:18 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

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LOL no kidding. im using a 7747 with $42, with a modified 4.3 binary on my 3.4. more support for $42. either way a fully commented $4E bin/xdf/adx should be up at gearhead efi
Wow...I feel like a moron after reading this guys...I have no clue as to what you are talking about. I guess y'all are gonna have to catch me up since I was a carburetor guy.



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer_X View Post
I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #69 of 409 Old 03-23-2013, 12:25 AM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

I am still learning myself.....lol

1985 GMC S-15 Gypsy ext cab.
3.4l, Edelbrock intake, a 4.3l throttle body controlled by an '88 TBI ECM. 700R4 with 3.73 rear. Real time tuning using a CF-30 Toughbook with a Moates Ostrich 2 emulator.
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post #70 of 409 Old 03-23-2013, 01:57 AM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Jimmy, im still a beginner too LOL. when you are ready to jump into some tuning there will be plenty of support. gearhead efi has lots of folks to help including Raven(aka sixshooter). i can give you a basic rundown on suggested hardware to get you started with tuning if you'd like.

Danmanx, im using what is already available for $42. iirc im using the MPAB(or MPAP) binary(used on the 4.3 w/T5 and 3.42 gears). started to tailor it to the 3.4 but parked the blazer before anything was fine tuned. when i first started there wasnt the new and improved xdf/adx that there is now.

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post #71 of 409 Old 03-23-2013, 02:19 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Thanks 34blazer. Tell ya what. I know I can do it...I have been working on cars since I was a kid, and I work in IT so it shouldn't be anything too foreign to me. I appreciate it guys....very much in fact. I always like helping when I can. I know a 60v6...and 1st generation s10s about as good as anyone....but fuel injection isn't my strong suit



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
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I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #72 of 409 Old 03-23-2013, 11:39 AM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

This is what I discovered on my swap. Maybe it can help someone later on.
Up stream of the ALDL plug. Not counting the data port.
1990 Model V8 from a Caprice B Body: 305 TBI & 200 4R trans.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Orange w/Black stripe : Park/Neutral safety switch
Black w/white stripe : Ground
Dark Purple : Brake Switch on the brake pedal " Positive when pedal is depressed"
Dark Brown : Data link and VSS "Vehicle Speed Sensor on the back of the speedo"
Pink w/ Black stripe : ECM Fuse
Purple w/ white stripe : Crank Fuse
Grey : Fuel pump in Tank
Red : To Ignition Fuse & other end is from the drivers side injector. "Hot with key on"
White : To Ignition fuse & other end is from the passenger side injector. "Hot with key on"

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post #73 of 409 Old 03-24-2013, 12:50 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Heading back to the junkyard today for a few more parts. Namely a knock sensor from a Camaro and a pigtail to replace the broken one on my electronic distributor. Probably clip some pigtails to while I'm there just to be on the safe side. When I get home I'm going to start stripping the intake off, remove the low pressure fuel pump and drill my hole for my harness. I will post some pictures. :-)



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
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I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #74 of 409 Old 03-24-2013, 07:31 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Just got back. Scored an entire distributor....figured why not, and a couple of redundant parts I can swap out if I have a no start condition when I get everything ready.

That damn knock sensor? Wow...that is in a bitch of a place is it not?? I couldn't get it off. Really need one from a Camaro 3.4 I guess anyway, but that was EVEN worse! I couldn't even put my hand on it much less remove it from the car....so I am saving myself the trouble and buying a new one.

Did pull a little heat shield that goes in front of the TBI harness where it exits into the engine compartment. Noticed that most earlier ones don't have it. I'm guessing GM found that the harness gets too hot there without shielding? My truck doesn't have the mounts for it, but I think I can reverse engineer it to make it work for additional insurance.

Made me some patterns for the hole...and I apparently came across a California 85 truck at the junkyard today. Old dash like mine...2.8 carbed...It had the hole there, and there is already a rounded area in that panel so it will be easy to see where it should be drilled. That piece of plastic above it has a rounded cut out is the same shape as the 86+. So anyone wanting to do this swap? Just look where the heater cable door control goes through the firewall...look to the left and you will see the area where you need to drill. Have the bottom of your new hole almost exactly matching the bottom of that hole. Remember, it has a grommet in it....You may want to pull it back to see the hole itself. However, I don't think this is very crucial....we are only talking a few millimeters.

Also, the plugs on my harness for the injectors look crappy and melted somewhat. I snatched another pigtail from a junker that were in primo shape. No problems here splicing that in I hope with proper functioning? I will solder everything...no taping or other bullshit to ensure a good solid connection.



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
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I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #75 of 409 Old 03-24-2013, 11:36 PM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

you would need to match the knock filter to the knock sensor, so if you have the ESC module from a 2.8 car then you will need a knock sensor from the same engine to match it. unless raven knows if you can mix and match other parts to match the 3.4?

as long as you solder and shrink wrap all the electrical connections you should be fine.


the main engine harness should also have metal tabs to mount to the bellhousing bolts, unless those are missing on yours.

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'86 Grand National - LZ9 swap(in progress)
'97 Ram SS/T 360/.030 over.
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post #76 of 409 Old 03-25-2013, 01:08 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Cool. I am going to replace those injector wiring connectors. They look like they really should be replaced....

On that knock sensor, I need a definite answer on that. Here is where I got tonight. Took me about an hour and a half.


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Yeah, you mean the grounds man? Think there are two of those the harness hooks to looks like.. Easy to get to those top bolts with the intake stripped off. If you mean some sort of standoffs? No they are not there and I didn't see any on the trucks I was working with today....However, it was raining...and cold, so I may have missed that.. I don't worry too much about that though as long as they stay away from the exhaust I think they will be fine....Here is the little heat shield I was talking about. There were posts that it mounted to on the 90 model Blazer this came off of. I am just going to tack weld some bolts to this plate and drill some holes in the firewall and bolt it to the inside. Sounds easy? We will see. With the headers there I think it's a good idea to try and fit it as well...The hole by the way is 2/14...not 2 1/2, not 2 1/8....guess which size I DON'T friggin have??


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1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer_X View Post
I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #77 of 409 Old 03-25-2013, 08:23 PM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

you got a complete pic of the truck? Don't think I've ever seen yours before haha. And I am watching this intently.

btw i like the trailer haha.

FS: First Gen brake lights, 4.3 TB, 2.8 intake manifold, 2.8 air cleaner housing, heater core shroud, first gen sun visor.
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post #78 of 409 Old 03-25-2013, 10:04 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

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you got a complete pic of the truck? Don't think I've ever seen yours before haha. And I am watching this intently.

btw i like the trailer haha.

Yeah...Here she is in all her faded black glory.


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Yeah, the S-5 trailer is awesome. It bounces around like a bitch. Needs tires and some stiff shocks. We use it to haul band equipment, and I think I am going to camp in it soon too. Handy as hell. I have less than $300 total in it. Here she is working...Looks like it could fly away...Doing a private yard party.


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1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer_X View Post
I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #79 of 409 Old 03-25-2013, 10:11 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Here is what I got done tonight...Not much. Still waiting on the intake to come back from the machine shop and for the injectors I bought to show up.....soooo....I guess I could have cleaned the head mounting surfaces, but I wasn't feeling it tonight. Did get my hole drilled. They didn't have a 2/14 hole saw at Lowe's. Pissed off I bought a 2 3/8 and prayed it would be close. Dudes...that is perfect!! Fits like stock. Anyone doing this swap....note the curve in the heater cover above. That is stock. Some of these old girls from Cali had ECMs in them on the carbs. I saw an 84 or 85 at the junkyard yesterday that had the hole (old dash) in this same place. Say hello to Mr. Header pipe under the hood...


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Also, I welded some bolts to that heat shield and drilled some holes under the big hole to mount it. Ugly welding job, but functional. Also cut off the old injector connectors and soldered on some in better condition as well as shrunk wrapped and taped up the wires.



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer_X View Post
I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #80 of 409 Old 03-25-2013, 11:03 PM
Should've had a V8.
 
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

not a bad looking truck, better condition then mine lol. i like it!

FS: First Gen brake lights, 4.3 TB, 2.8 intake manifold, 2.8 air cleaner housing, heater core shroud, first gen sun visor.
Click the name for the thread.
1992 s10 "Old and Un-faithful" 3.4L RIP
1995 s10 "What the hell, it runs?" 2.2L Long Bed RIP
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post #81 of 409 Old 03-25-2013, 11:12 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

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not a bad looking truck, better condition then mine lol. i like it!

Thanks man...body is really straight. Especially since it has been wrecked in the front at least 4 times. Only once by me. . I take good care of my stuff. The paint is toast on it. Outside of this project, it's really all I have on the plate for it...painting, and some minor body work. I ran pizzas in it for 12 years. It was getting rough looking and almost on its last leg in 2009 when I parked it and realized it was either fix her or let her go. I couldn't bear it since I have had it so long. It paid me, so I decided it was time to pay her back with some new goodies. Glad I did. Know it looks like a 92, but it is an 84. Put the 94 Blazer core support in the truck for the one piece grille which I just like a lot better. I don't like the way some folks hack up the grill to make it fit on the older trucks fit that grille and the lights don't sit right. You can tell quite easily.

Always loved S series trucks. That Blazer (The Bobcat) is another good example of what I love about them. It's slow, but it will go anywhere and pulls like a beast!



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer_X View Post
I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #82 of 409 Old 03-26-2013, 02:28 PM
Should've had a V8.
 
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Haha I was wondering about that. I like the older 3 piece ones myself, mainly because I have enough of them for spares for when I hit another deer. Not if i hit one, but when i do lol.

I just think the older ones look nicer anyway haha.

FS: First Gen brake lights, 4.3 TB, 2.8 intake manifold, 2.8 air cleaner housing, heater core shroud, first gen sun visor.
Click the name for the thread.
1992 s10 "Old and Un-faithful" 3.4L RIP
1995 s10 "What the hell, it runs?" 2.2L Long Bed RIP
1996 Saturn SL2, 2000 SL TWIN PILES OF CRAP
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post #83 of 409 Old 03-26-2013, 02:32 PM
Should've had a V8.
 
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

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Originally Posted by s10_2.8 View Post
Haha I was wondering about that. I like the older 3 piece ones myself, mainly because I have enough of them for spares for when I hit another deer. Not if i hit one, but when i do lol.

I just think the older ones look nicer anyway haha.
forgot to mention I have a Bravada Grille on it right now.

FS: First Gen brake lights, 4.3 TB, 2.8 intake manifold, 2.8 air cleaner housing, heater core shroud, first gen sun visor.
Click the name for the thread.
1992 s10 "Old and Un-faithful" 3.4L RIP
1995 s10 "What the hell, it runs?" 2.2L Long Bed RIP
1996 Saturn SL2, 2000 SL TWIN PILES OF CRAP
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post #84 of 409 Old 03-26-2013, 03:46 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Matter of personal taste. I had three of those grilles. Traded one to a gentleman for some stuff....think that green camper was part of what I got, and recently I was at the gas station by my house, and there was a guy there with a LWB 84. Nice older truck like mine. Only thing was wrong was he had broken the grille recently. I told him to stay put and I went and fetched him one of the ones I had. Felt good to help the guy out. Didn't charge him anything. Should have gotten good Karma for that. Came back out later and the outside door handle on the driver's side broke in my hand...what?? So much for my good deed huh?



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer_X View Post
I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #85 of 409 Old 03-26-2013, 04:15 PM
Should've had a V8.
 
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

maybe you got double good karma coming now haha

FS: First Gen brake lights, 4.3 TB, 2.8 intake manifold, 2.8 air cleaner housing, heater core shroud, first gen sun visor.
Click the name for the thread.
1992 s10 "Old and Un-faithful" 3.4L RIP
1995 s10 "What the hell, it runs?" 2.2L Long Bed RIP
1996 Saturn SL2, 2000 SL TWIN PILES OF CRAP
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post #86 of 409 Old 03-26-2013, 11:28 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Okay, got the intake back from the shop. Note the bigger holes! $75. Mounted it tonight, and that is all I did. Tired and not feeling tonight. Probably going to rebuild the TBI tomorrow. My fuel pump and my fuse block I am adding for the ECM (isolating it from the rest of the system) will be here too. So I have a couple of things I can do. Waiting for the d-bag I bought the injectors from to get them here so I can build them. Also may test fit the wiring harness.

What is that deal on that knock sensor y'all? Do I need one from a 2.8 or a 3.4???. Damanx says I need one from the 3.4....what do you guys think?

Here's where I am. Found out the hard way that I needed to move two of the studs to the middle of the engine. That's a lame ass design where the bolts won't clear. Stupid! Fortunately I never throw bolts away, so I had some stuff that would work. I wound up just using a stud on each corner, two in the middle and on the ends I had some short bolt that I swapped in. I believe that will work just fine! :-)


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Purdy....not really. But functional.


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1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer_X View Post
I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #87 of 409 Old 03-26-2013, 11:54 PM
Should've had a V8.
 
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

I didn't think the 2.8 had a knock sensor? But i'd say use the one from the 2.8 if they did, since you're using the 2.8 TBI and comp, etc.

FS: First Gen brake lights, 4.3 TB, 2.8 intake manifold, 2.8 air cleaner housing, heater core shroud, first gen sun visor.
Click the name for the thread.
1992 s10 "Old and Un-faithful" 3.4L RIP
1995 s10 "What the hell, it runs?" 2.2L Long Bed RIP
1996 Saturn SL2, 2000 SL TWIN PILES OF CRAP
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post #88 of 409 Old 03-27-2013, 12:16 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Yeah they all have them...fit? That's what I have been hearing....but I am confused because it isn't a 2.8. Shrugs shoulders...



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
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I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #89 of 409 Old 03-27-2013, 12:20 AM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

the knock sensor needs to be matched to the knock filter(ESC) in order to operate correctly. all 2.8's ive ever saw had the knock sensor.

Im using a 2.8 KS with my 3.4, seems to pick up knock like its supposed to. so use the 2.8 KS for now.

ideally the KS needs to be matched to the engine, or more specifically, the bore size.

save this link in your favs....

http://www.phormula.co.uk/KnockCalculator.aspx


and the source as well....

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...-ESC-and-swaps!

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'86 Grand National - LZ9 swap(in progress)
'97 Ram SS/T 360/.030 over.
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post #90 of 409 Old 03-27-2013, 05:33 AM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Supposedly, the knock sensor is designed to repsond to frequencies generated by the pings created by the engine it's attached to.

I'm not sure the 2.8l and 3.4l knock sensor is all that different any way. If you wanted to really see what was going on, you'd really need to see the schematic diagram for the ESC's to see what it's doing with the since wave generated by the knock sensor.

Side note: the knock sensor is the same element that makes your watch or microwave beep. It's also the same element that is used in the wii, xbox or playstation drum set.

In any case, to truly find out what tuning will be required of the knock sensor, you are going to need to look at the streaming data from the ecm while driving. That knock sensor, regardless of which motor it's for, will detect knocks that you'd never hear.

So worry about that later.

1985 GMC S-15 Gypsy ext cab.
3.4l, Edelbrock intake, a 4.3l throttle body controlled by an '88 TBI ECM. 700R4 with 3.73 rear. Real time tuning using a CF-30 Toughbook with a Moates Ostrich 2 emulator.
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post #91 of 409 Old 03-27-2013, 08:02 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

cool. I didn't really think there was THAT much difference. Anybody got one they will sell me cheap? :-)



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
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I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #92 of 409 Old 03-27-2013, 06:52 PM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Rockauto. Get a new one.

1985 GMC S-15 Gypsy ext cab.
3.4l, Edelbrock intake, a 4.3l throttle body controlled by an '88 TBI ECM. 700R4 with 3.73 rear. Real time tuning using a CF-30 Toughbook with a Moates Ostrich 2 emulator.
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post #93 of 409 Old 03-28-2013, 04:24 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Yeah....this truck has been 40 and 40 dollaring me to death over the last few weeks. I am really trying to only use old parts where practical like the manifold and distributor. I don't really want a bunch of old worn out shit on my truck that I built back to new. Sort of like buying a tailor made suit and wearing a stained second hand shirt from the thrift store with it....just don't make sense.



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer_X View Post
I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #94 of 409 Old 03-28-2013, 04:30 PM
Should've had a V8.
 
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

you're not alone haha. heater core last week, fuel pump this week, a few weeks ago when I was getting it ready for inspection i put in a new sway bar and end links, rotors and pads, shoes on the back, e brake cables... it's expensive having an old truck lol

FS: First Gen brake lights, 4.3 TB, 2.8 intake manifold, 2.8 air cleaner housing, heater core shroud, first gen sun visor.
Click the name for the thread.
1992 s10 "Old and Un-faithful" 3.4L RIP
1995 s10 "What the hell, it runs?" 2.2L Long Bed RIP
1996 Saturn SL2, 2000 SL TWIN PILES OF CRAP
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post #95 of 409 Old 03-28-2013, 07:36 PM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

best bet is to buy a new GM KS, a used one may have damage to the piezo(sp?)element inside and may cause unwanted false knock or none at all. dont use teflon[on the threads] just install in block and follow torque specs. too much torque may damage piezo element and cause it to be too sensitive.

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'86 Grand National - LZ9 swap(in progress)
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post #96 of 409 Old 03-28-2013, 11:30 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Good advice. I was just having a cheapass moment. I don't usually do that when it comes to doing things right.

Here's what I got done tonight. About 3 hours.

First I worked out the wiring harness as neat as I could. I got rid of that stupid oil pressure switch that does nothing at all on my truck and removed the relay. Also took out the A/C one. Looking at the diagram, I can work this into my existing system easier than trying to work the 87 harness and relay into it, so I got rid of it too. The only relay left is for the fuel pump. Let me get this straight guys....that wire coming off that circuit...that tiny wire....carries enough current to run the pump? I'm not really all that fired up on it. In fact, I think I am going to use my existing relay setup and cut the factory one out. It's a painless, and really good quality.


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Next I ran an auxiliary fuse block inside. This is going to run my ignition hot (pink black) and my constant hot (orange). This way I can isolate my computer from the rest of the truck. Thought that might make my life easier when troubleshooting since it is separate from the rest of the truck wiring except for the energizer wire that comes from the main fuse block. Not to mention it would probably make it shitloads stable and safer than just hooking that crap up to the existing fuse block. It's located on the passenger side kick panel above the air circualtor vent. Acutally using one of the screws to hold it up there. Fits tight, but works.


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Instead of running even more damn wires behind the distributor...and to keep the lines short, I ran my power wires (orange hot and pink ignition) along with the crank signal wire back into the truck by the main ECM harness. That grommet is just like the one to the right of the ECM harness that the heater control cable goes through. 1 1/8" hole. I fed the hot for the fuse block through this hole too and it will connect to the junction block directly above!

inside view


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Outside


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And the rat's nest....actually working out pretty good. Most everything will be tied up and loomed when I get done.


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Not bad for 3 hours. One other question...my truck has an electric fan. My Edelbrock intake had two hole and there was also one in the block. My truck has gauges. It has TWO temp sensors? Well, here's a bitch for you. The new intake has a sensor in it that reports back to the ECM, so I can't put that in there, and the other hole is occupied by the vacuum switch. What in the hell is the one in the block for? Better yet, how the hell am I going to run my electric fan now? I have seen those inline hose adapters with the fittings in them, and I may have to go that route, but I really don't want to because it will look like shit. Adding a T isn't really an option either as I have heard that plain just doesn't work most of the time and you won't get accurate gauge readings, or worse, my fan might not kick on. Any suggestions?



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer_X View Post
I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #97 of 409 Old 03-29-2013, 12:40 PM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

You shouldn't need a temp controlled vacuum switch anymore, so you should be able to replace that with the thermal switch for the fan.

You can replace the 2 wire temp sender that you have for the ECM, with a 3 wire unit from a late '90s 3100 or 3400, that will have the same two wires for the ECM (Ground [black] and signal [yellow]), plus a third wire for the gauge (green). You will need to grab the connector for that CTS too. This connector is the same as the small round TPS connector. Using this sensor, should open up a spot for the thermal switch where the sender for the gauge would have normally been.

I would try to get the thermal fan control switch as close to the thermostat as possible.

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post #98 of 409 Old 03-29-2013, 03:49 PM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

So the whole you cut was 2-3/8" hole saw? Instead of 2-1/4?
Is that what you meant? I has run my harness, however it has this same rubber grommet and if I cut a hole it should fit right in it with no issues
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post #99 of 409 Old 03-29-2013, 07:59 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

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Originally Posted by Lowl!f3 View Post
So the whole you cut was 2-3/8" hole saw? Instead of 2-1/4?
Is that what you meant? I has run my harness, however it has this same rubber grommet and if I cut a hole it should fit right in it with no issues

Yeah, but upon further inspection? It's a tiz too big. Not a big deal, but 2 1/4 is what you need. I hacked a grommet for test fitting off a junker, and also drilled holes in scrap metal before I drilled. It is really 2 1/4.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Raven View Post
You shouldn't need a temp controlled vacuum switch anymore, so you should be able to replace that with the thermal switch for the fan.

You can replace the 2 wire temp sender that you have for the ECM, with a 3 wire unit from a late '90s 3100 or 3400, that will have the same two wires for the ECM (Ground [black] and signal [yellow]), plus a third wire for the gauge (green). You will need to grab the connector for that CTS too. This connector is the same as the small round TPS connector. Using this sensor, should open up a spot for the thermal switch where the sender for the gauge would have normally been.

I would try to get the thermal fan control switch as close to the thermostat as possible.
There is a factory vac switch in the intake that has two hoses on it. Are you saying I can delete that? And thanks for the tip on the dual use sensor. What was the one in the head? I can't remember what it actually is for.

Also, I think I am going to leave the rest of the harness stock. Off that relay, I only have to run that one wire back to the fuel pump? Is that right? Just looks like a mighty chintzy wire to supply enough current to run the pump to me.


Now I have another head scratcher. I wired up my VSS today, ran my CEL, which was easy as hell because there is already a place for it in the cluster. Just pulled a pin from another harness, followed the printed circuit soldered together with the pin from the ECM...and bam. I also finished the fuse box and connected the pink/blk and orange wires to the new isolated fuse box. The crank wire I still have to connect...no biggie. Off the ALDL I have a cut tan with a black stripe and nowhere for it to go. The schematics show some pretty weird stuff that I may not have on my truck. Schematic shows as TCC. I am assuming that is Torque Converter Clutch? Since I am using the existing stuff to control the shifting, I don't think I need this at all do I?

And the weirdest thing. I realize that the 86+ truck uses a different neutral/park switch than the older truck. What surprised me was that when I dropped the column? There was nothing connected. The black/orange wire was lying loose under the carpet, and the orange/black was hooked to an adapter on the fuse box (which fit). Now granted the last genius to work on this was me, and I had the truck in a zillion pieces. I had removed the cruise control on this truck, and I am kinda thinking this might be why it was connected this way? Anybody got a picture of a later column so I can see what I am supposed to have hooked up....and how? Better yet, does that ECM orange/black wire just need to see 12v? If it does, I don't really give a crap and I will bypass the switch. Thanks guys.

I would have NEVER gotten this done without your help. REALLY REALLY appreciate it!! MANY THANKS TO EVERYONE THAT HAS HELPED ME!!

Here is some pix.

These are the ones that come off the ALDL


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These are the two that are already on my truck. As said the black/orange one was laying loose, the orange/black one was on the fuse box, and the safety switch had nothing on it at all. Colors are washed out in pic, but the left one is orange/black, and the right one is black/orange.


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1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer_X View Post
I had to cut my nut in half .
jimmykicker is offline  
post #100 of 409 Old 03-30-2013, 11:54 AM Thread Starter
Awww..you ain't got shit!
 
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: McCalla, Alabama
Age: 48
Posts: 3,240

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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Guess I am off to the junkyard to see what I can find. I like going to the junkyard for some reason....always have. Is that weird?



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer_X View Post
I had to cut my nut in half .
jimmykicker is offline  
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