Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help - S-10 Forum
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post #1 of 409 Old 03-18-2013, 03:30 AM Thread Starter
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Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Hey guys, I am converting my truck to an EFI system. I have had the parts for some time, but I am finally getting around to it. I have apparently missed a part or two. This is from a 1987 truck, and I am missing a part called a cold start module that apparently set inside the truck by the ECM? Doesn't really look like I need it. It's absent from the later models all together.

what is an Air Control Solenoid? I am apparently missing that too? Any pix? Has a black/pink striped wire in the harness coming from c1 pin on the ECM and the other end comes out and connects to a pigtail with a pink/black wires exiting for other IGN powered sources.

Where should I hook the "crank" fuse wire?

Last but not least...I have these two oil pressure switches. One comes with a tan/white wire (fuel pump signal wire) and exits with an orange (12v hot). The other one has three prongs with brown, black and tan wires. I know the three prong is the safety switch and I know where it goes....but where does the one with the two prongs connect?? That is blowing my mind.

Thanks in advance guys




1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
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post #2 of 409 Old 03-18-2013, 11:54 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

And by the way, I am using an 8062 ECM....so I am guessing that since this didn't use the cold start module it would be just fine for me to leave that pin unhooked? THe other wires are just an orange, a blk/white (ground) a pink/blk (ign) and the blue that goes from the ECM back to a the plug inside the truck that terminates at the Elapsed Timer Module (cold start module). I'm thinking the same about the "air control solenoid" since this has no home on 88 and newer truck that I can probably clip this? Does it have anything to do with the Cold Start Module?

Any ideas on the oil pressure plugs? Posting a pic.

ANy help is appreciated. This is all I really need to get started.



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
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post #3 of 409 Old 03-18-2013, 12:07 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

This is the cold start module. Ignore the pigtail plugged in. I happened to have it...it happened to fit. The colors were all wrong. so image it not being there. Note too this plug is INSIDE the truck with the ECM connectors

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and here are the oil pump associated plugs....where does the two prong one go??


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1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
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post #4 of 409 Old 03-18-2013, 12:35 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Tips on cleaning the throttle body are appreciated too. Going with new 4.3 injectors. I am also keeping the Edelbrock intake just adding an adapter plate to make it work. I cannot see any reason why it would not work just fine other than having to work around the trans dipstick tube.



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
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post #5 of 409 Old 03-18-2013, 11:53 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Nobody has a clue on any of this?? I have a hard time believing that...I know you guys know this stuff....Help me out.



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
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I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #6 of 409 Old 03-19-2013, 01:32 AM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

When I tore my engine bay apart, I found the 3 pin connector unplugged and sitting there. After research I came to the conclusion it was only for stock oil pressure gauges, which I don't have. I simply cut the wires, tape, and tucked them into the harness if I ever need them later. The 2 pin connector is for the oil pressure switch, which runs the fuel pump when oil pressure is present.

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post #7 of 409 Old 03-19-2013, 01:36 AM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

The cold start whatever thing is not needed on a 8062. Heck it didn't even make a difference when I unplugged it from the older 7429.. aparently it stops working after a certain period of time after brand spanking new back in 198X

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post #8 of 409 Old 03-19-2013, 01:38 AM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

The only air control there is besides the butterflies on a tbi is the IAC valve.. which is just a dink that moves in and out of a hole to meter air at idle to control idle speed. Its the 4 pin cylinder shape part beside the TPS on the throttle body

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post #9 of 409 Old 03-19-2013, 01:41 AM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

And for cleaning the tbi, just buy a gasket kit, and unbolt the entire thing and clean it all with carb cleaner. Works fine for the ones I've worked on. You may find that the truck will run rich, or lean... so deleting the stock non-adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator and adding an external one may be in the future.

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post #10 of 409 Old 03-19-2013, 02:09 AM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

A.I.R. diverter valve control is for the smog pump.

are you able to burn your own chips Jimmy?

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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

I've never heard of a cold start module.

Crank wire just simply connects to the start wire, at the column is a good spot to grab the wire. Originally it would have been fed through a 3 amp fuse in the fuse box.

The orange and black/white wires you mention being inside the cab, in a plug should be your ALDL wires, needed for scanning data from the ECM. There is usually a third wire as well, that is part of the ALDL diagnostic connector.

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post #12 of 409 Old 03-19-2013, 02:53 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

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Originally Posted by 34blazer View Post
A.I.R. diverter valve control is for the smog pump.

are you able to burn your own chips Jimmy?
I'm using the chip you got for me bro. ACHT



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
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post #13 of 409 Old 03-19-2013, 02:58 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

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I've never heard of a cold start module.

Crank wire just simply connects to the start wire, at the column is a good spot to grab the wire. Originally it would have been fed through a 3 amp fuse in the fuse box.

The orange and black/white wires you mention being inside the cab, in a plug should be your ALDL wires, needed for scanning data from the ECM. There is usually a third wire as well, that is part of the ALDL diagnostic connector.
Any idea off the top of your head what color that crank wire might be? Here's the module from 87 ecm. And in that pic I posted of where the cold start module goes, the other one is aldl....Got that all figured out too.


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1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
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post #14 of 409 Old 03-19-2013, 03:26 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

And thanks GEARS for the comments. That's what I was thinking is that since I am using 8062 I don't even need those wires so I can leave that disconnected....along with that other connector at c1.



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

And let's get down to basics here too. What of the emissions stuff do I REALLY need to leave on there? What all should be hooked up to the throttle body? Also, this throttle body from the 4.3? Supposed to have 3 vac ports....it has 2. The 2.8 has 4. The writeup on betterthanyou says it should have 3 and drill the 4th. But this only has two....not like his pix showing three drilling a 4th.



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
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I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #16 of 409 Old 03-19-2013, 04:33 PM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

JK, wish I could help out here, my 2.8/3.4s are all carbed.
My '91 still has all of the TBI stuff intact, just zip stripped out of the way.
It would be pretty cool to see a complete multiport system from a 95 Camaro on your rig.
I know that's not much help, but it would totally be different and make some good power too.

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post #17 of 409 Old 03-19-2013, 07:07 PM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

That's not a "cold start module."

It turns the fuel pump on for several seconds after the truck shuts off. IIRC, it was heavy duty trucks only, used to combat fuel vaporization after hot shut shut.

Crank wire: ppl-wht is Purple/white stripe.

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post #18 of 409 Old 03-19-2013, 08:31 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

OK...good. Same color on tue inside of the truck. By looking at the bulkhead connector where I started clipping ECM wires loose I noticed there being one there...so I will just fish it back through a grommet I have back around where my existing bulkhead connector is on my 84. I will snatch a quick disconnect. from something and splice it in.



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
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I had to cut my nut in half .

Last edited by jimmykicker; 03-19-2013 at 08:33 PM. Reason: .
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post #19 of 409 Old 03-19-2013, 09:16 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Raven View Post
I've never heard of a cold start module.

Crank wire just simply connects to the start wire, at the column is a good spot to grab the wire. Originally it would have been fed through a 3 amp fuse in the fuse box.

The orange and black/white wires you mention being inside the cab, in a plug should be your ALDL wires, needed for scanning data from the ECM. There is usually a third wire as well, that is part of the ALDL diagnostic connector.
Okay....let me make sure I have this correct before I start going all crazy. There should be a purple and white wire that is for the crank ecm pin....tells it that the engine is turning over right? Could I not just fuse it and connect this wire at the solenoid and be done with it since the truck is an 84 and there isn't a place on the fuse box where it resided before because it was carbureted? Schematics don't show any such fuse. All the lettering on my fuse box is basically gone from age. These old schematics do show a purple wire coming off the starter which appears to go back inside the truck for the neutral/clutch switch.



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
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I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #20 of 409 Old 03-19-2013, 09:29 PM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

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Okay....let me make sure I have this correct before I start going all crazy. There should be a purple and white wire that is for the crank ecm pin....tells it that the engine is turning over right? Could I not just fuse it and connect this wire at the solenoid and be done with it since the truck is an 84 and there isn't a place on the fuse box where it resided before because it was carbureted? Schematics don't show any such fuse. All the lettering on my fuse box is basically gone from age.
yes all it does it tells the ECM when the starter solenoid is engaged. I left mine disconnected, not sure it thats bad, but havent had an issue yet.

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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

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When I tore my engine bay apart, I found the 3 pin connector unplugged and sitting there. After research I came to the conclusion it was only for stock oil pressure gauges, which I don't have. I simply cut the wires, tape, and tucked them into the harness if I ever need them later. The 2 pin connector is for the oil pressure switch, which runs the fuel pump when oil pressure is present.

GEARS, this is what I found on an 87 truck today. Note the TWO oil pressure switches. I have a dash gauge on my truck and it works off the big honking sender that this truck doesn't have in the picture. I have a three prong one which by what I remember (it's not a stock piece but the same in working I think) that I use for the electric fuel pump cut out on my carb setup 3.4. The third pin on that switch is for a light. So, I am guessing that the secondary 2 prong switch like you have is performing the same function as the 3 prong switch I am using....so my gauge is working off the big honking sender, and the fuel pump cut off is running off my three prong home wired relay deal, so I don't believe I really need that one then....and I should be able to just jump it out since it won't perform any function in my truck. This truck had gauges which is what I am assuming the three prong switch runs as you indicated. What runs the oil idiot light on your truck then??

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1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
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I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #22 of 409 Old 03-19-2013, 10:00 PM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

The 2 pin is for the oiil pressure switch that runs your fuel pump when the motor is running. The 3 pin is for a gauge.

There isn't much emmisions stuff needed to run. I simply didn't hook up the AIR, and left the wire tucked away. I deleted the egr by making a block off plate on the manifold and left the EGR plug tucked away. Hell I don't even have a purge valve going to the charcoal canister, its just open to air and the tank.

Note when u don't hook up the egr, you will get a code on the highway, but it doesn't affect anything. The ecm stays in closed loop and continues on normally.

On my tbi the only lines hooked to it is the MAP and PCV valve.. that's it

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post #23 of 409 Old 03-19-2013, 10:02 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

I'm gonna take a stab in the dark here....there is another little one single plug wire that hangs loose down there....does that connect on your truck for the idiot light?



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
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I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #24 of 409 Old 03-19-2013, 10:14 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Quote:
Originally Posted by GEARS View Post
The 2 pin is for the oiil pressure switch that runs your fuel pump when the motor is running. The 3 pin is for a gauge.

There isn't much emmisions stuff needed to run. I simply didn't hook up the AIR, and left the wire tucked away. I deleted the egr by making a block off plate on the manifold and left the EGR plug tucked away. Hell I don't even have a purge valve going to the charcoal canister, its just open to air and the tank.

Note when u don't hook up the egr, you will get a code on the highway, but it doesn't affect anything. The ecm stays in closed loop and continues on normally.

On my tbi the only lines hooked to it is the MAP and PCV valve.. that's it
Gotcha...mind snapping me some pix of how you got it setup? This answers my question on the fuel pump fiasco. What there that is stock on the truck is the same thing that I have on mine now for the aftermarket fuel pump.....so I am just going to jump those two wires together and cut the plug off. I won't need it since fuel delivery is independent of the harness....jumping the wire out will just make the truck think the circuit is closed and won't matter.



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
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I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #25 of 409 Old 03-19-2013, 11:43 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Ok...just when I THINK I have it figured out....Look at this diagram. It shows the two prong switch, which is what GEARS is talking about....yet down here at the bottom we have two more switches. This is the three prong one (but shows two prongs...WTF!!!!) and a single pole one which I am guessing is the idiot light plug or fuel pump test? I dunno. Anyway, now I am second guessing myself...that maybe I should have both of these installed just like the photo I posted earlier? If you look at this schematic, it show this one at the bottom having to be there for oil pressure...If this is true, GEARS, how the hell is your truck running with it off? But tthen I look at it...there isn't a hot 12v wire other than the pink/black energizer wire that goes in. The rest goes to the instrument cluster....so what's the freaking point?? To run the gauge? Why is that even necessary?


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1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
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I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #26 of 409 Old 03-20-2013, 12:00 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Maybe I am getting this now....That the the three prong is to run the gauge in the later model truck. My truck's gauge runs off the the old school gauge deal...so like you GEARS, I should be able to not even have to use this function. I could cut the relay out and throw it on the ground and it won't make a hill of beans of difference. Look and se



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
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I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #27 of 409 Old 03-20-2013, 03:33 AM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

The relay is there to prime the pump before fire up to get gas up to the tbi. I would just use the relay, hook up the 2 pin switch, and tuck away the 3 pin as you don't have an electric gauge. I'm on a phone right now so its hard to see the pic to see if it can be done any different. Ill get on a computer tomorrow.

And ill snap a pic of the tbi setup and vac lines tmr aswell.

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Dart 215 headed full roller 355, Full manual TH400, Killduff Lightning Rods, 150 shot of spray, homemade traction bars
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

cant see the wiring diagram pic at work. youre talking about the fuel pump relay right? if so, the relay is most definitley needed. the ECM energizes the relay for the initial prime, then the oil pressure sending unit comes into play during cranking and while the engine is running. while the ECM energizes the relay initially, the OPSU bypasses the relay internally. cant remember what pin on the relay, i believe it is 85a. if the oil pressure drops below iirc 3psi, the OPSU opens the circuit causing the fuel pump to shut off.

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post #29 of 409 Old 03-20-2013, 09:13 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

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cant see the wiring diagram pic at work. youre talking about the fuel pump relay right? if so, the relay is most definitley needed. the ECM energizes the relay for the initial prime, then the oil pressure sending unit comes into play during cranking and while the engine is running. while the ECM energizes the relay initially, the OPSU bypasses the relay internally. cant remember what pin on the relay, i believe it is 85a. if the oil pressure drops below iirc 3psi, the OPSU opens the circuit causing the fuel pump to shut off.
Nope. There are three relays on the mount. One is AC, one is fuel pump, and one is the oil pump relay. I know exactly what you are talking about on the fuel pump relay....Looking at the diagrams I was trying to figure out how all that bypassing stuff worked...that makes a lot of sense. The question is what is the purpose of the oil pressure relay..?



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

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post #30 of 409 Old 03-20-2013, 09:38 AM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

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Nope. There are three relays on the mount. One is AC, one is fuel pump, and one is the oil pump relay. I know exactly what you are talking about on the fuel pump relay....Looking at the diagrams I was trying to figure out how all that bypassing stuff worked...that makes a lot of sense. The question is what is the purpose of the oil pressure relay..?
oil pressure switch? all that does is close the fuel pump circuit which bypasses the relay(internally) all together. its a safety feature designed to protect the engine in the event of loss of oil pressure. depending on what year the wiring harness was produced(along with different models), the color of the wires in the circuit may be orange, gray, or tan(iirc). on my blazer the circuit is also "hot-wired" with a separate relay, larger guage wire with and the main power wire connected to the charge post of the alternator and helps deliver the most voltage to the fuel pump.

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post #31 of 409 Old 03-20-2013, 09:50 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

See...we are all getting confused now....WHat I am talking about is not a pressure switch....the oil pressure RELAY. I understand the cutoff switch and what it does...but this is a RELAY. If you look on the picture I posted from the 87 blazer I put on there yesterday, you will see it...it's that grimy SOB sticking out in the very front. The cut off switch is the one in the background with the plug parallel to the engine block. This relay is also pictured in that schematic I put on here as well at the bottom of the page and is highlighted. Only shows it going to the instrument cluster and the three pronged "oil pressure" switch...not the two prong one in the background. What I want to know is do I even need that three prong switch? I don't think I do. GEARS says it hangs loose in his truck. GEARS, do you have three relays on your fender? I thought my 91 only had two.



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
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post #32 of 409 Old 03-20-2013, 09:56 AM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

ill take a look at those pictures once im at home so I can get on the same page with you

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post #33 of 409 Old 03-20-2013, 10:03 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Thanks...the more I look at it...and by what you said, it appears they changed the design on just how this works about 5 freaking times. Looks like to me...now that I have slept, that the secondary one only is there to make the check gages light come on..,,its is wired also to the coolant temp setup too...judging by how the relay works, I am thinking it's just for that light. I have gauges, so it doesn't matter...Not only that, there is no place on the dash for "check gages" on my truck....only the cel light which will be occupied....Still trying to figure out why GM thinks gauge is spelled GAGE.



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
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I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #34 of 409 Old 03-20-2013, 06:38 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

One other question too....what is the benefit of boring my stock intake and using 4.3 TBI vs me just popping the 4.3 injectors in an otherwise stock 2.8 housing? Obviously there will be some performance gain...but for real world driving is the 2.8 housing with the 4.3 injectors not going to work just peachy? Thanks guys....as always you are an enormous help!!



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
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post #35 of 409 Old 03-20-2013, 07:19 PM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

The 2.8L TBI bores are a little smaller, which will help promote some bottom end torque, but might starve the 3.4 for air a little at the top end.

The 4.3 TBI has larger bores, which will not starve the 3.4 at the top end.

If it were me, I'd likely use the 2.8 TBI, and do some testing to see if the 4.3 TBI was actually needed.

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post #36 of 409 Old 03-20-2013, 11:56 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Would I be hurting anything by boring the intake for the 4.3 Tbi and running the way. 8 unit on it to start with? Hate to have to take it back off. Extra work and expense



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
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post #37 of 409 Old 03-21-2013, 01:04 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Wow. That was a bad post....I meant using the 2.8 TBI on the bored intake....so I dont have to take it back off and bore it again should I wanna go with the 4.3 TBI . I don't guess it really matter does it? Hell my carb intake is open plenum. What CFM is the 4.3 TBI anyway? The Holley is 390. I'd like to keep it close to that for performance.



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
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post #38 of 409 Old 03-21-2013, 10:22 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Anybody got me any answers on that relay yet? Cleaned up the garage. Just gotta get the S-5 trailer out of there and pull the pickup in to get started.


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1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
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post #39 of 409 Old 03-21-2013, 01:36 PM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Just a note on the EGR, what I did was left it plugged into the electronics then ran the vaccum off the tbi to the EGR solenoid and capped the other side off, (My egr is blocked off) and I get no codes as whenever it send the code for the egr to move, it doesn't detect leaks or not working it sucks in just as it would before

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post #40 of 409 Old 03-21-2013, 01:39 PM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

I don't think the 2.8 TBI would work with the bored intake because on the bottom of the Throttle body there are all the lines that run underneath as well as the gasket would be in the void being sucked at with a potential to break apart a=or cause some wierd circumstance.

I used a TBI off of a 94 astro, which if you go to parts store they say it doesn't exist, it was a pretty rare find apparently for that year but W/E someone before me has already removed the idle set screw apparently

Going from a 2.8 to a 3.4 I didn't notice any difference in the power until I bored the intake and stuck the 4.3 TBI on top of it, just my 2 cents.

I still have to get my valve seals replaced seeing as how I've been denied from 12 different dealers to warranty it with always a different excuse, even calling GM they send me in a circle, I've given up hope on it, no the rear axle is clunking, not to derail the thread but that's where I'm at.




I Don't disagree with Raven but the way I saw it on the 2.8 vs 4.3 TB is just worlds of difference, I couldn't stand the 2.8 TB for very long so I didn't keep it, The 3.4 may very possible slightly affect low end torque, but with my gearing I never noticed it.

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post #41 of 409 Old 03-21-2013, 02:56 PM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

The oil pressure does NOT shut the fuel off in the event of a loss of oil pressure. It simply allows the fuel pump to function in the event that fuel pump relay fails.

The fuel pump relay is energized by the ECM while the engine is running, or more correctly while the ECM is receiving DRP (Distributor Reference Pulses) from the ICM.

The only time that the engine would shut off from losing oil pressure in the stock set-up is if both the fuel pump relay failed AND the oil pressure dropped, but not one or the other.

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post #42 of 409 Old 03-21-2013, 04:26 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Hmmm...a thought. If it could be machined just right so it would fit tight enough to remove them easily....sleeves. That way your could run either one. The plenum on my edelbrock is wide open...I really wonder how much difference it would make.

And the question about the oil pump relay remains. I totally understand how the fuel pump one works. There is an "oil pump" relay in schematics that hook to the three prong switch...It is connected only to the gauge and 3 prong oil pressure switch. It shows it at the bottom of the image on the previous page. That's what I need answered. Whether I really need this damn thing or not. If I do, that means I will have a two prong, a three prong, and a gauge sender coming out of the adapter?? Holy freaking jesus.

IwillNC, thank you for the EGR tip. That is what I will do. :-)



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
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I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #43 of 409 Old 03-21-2013, 05:15 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

34blazer. Could you show me where you at mounted the Ecm in your truck and where you drilled the hole 4 it?7



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
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I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #44 of 409 Old 03-21-2013, 09:20 PM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Damn I wish I could edit my post I definately didn't read it before posting, I sound like an idiot

I believe the factory ecm has a mount on the passenger side of the dash around the general area of the glovebox, which you probably already know..

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post #45 of 409 Old 03-22-2013, 02:09 PM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Ill het those pics up soon jimmy. My truck only has a fuel pump relay and the two pin connector. I took out the single pin cuz I don't need an idiot light, and I don't have a three pin or oil pump relay as I don't have a stock oil gauge.

My guess is the oil relay and 3 pin switch are only needed if you have the typpe of stock gauge that requires it. You have a different style of gauge right?? If so, don't bother hooking up the 3 pin and oil relay and run your current gauge setup.

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Dart 215 headed full roller 355, Full manual TH400, Killduff Lightning Rods, 150 shot of spray, homemade traction bars
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post #46 of 409 Old 03-22-2013, 02:10 PM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

And you should run a 4.3 tbi.. it flows about 390-400cfm. 2.8 tbi is GUTLESS

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post #47 of 409 Old 03-22-2013, 04:32 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Yeah...I pretty much decided I am going to run the larger TBI. Do any of you guys know how to swap the throttle mechanism? Mine is different from the Astro van. Me and spring loaded mechanisms don't have the best relationship



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
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post #48 of 409 Old 03-22-2013, 04:35 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Wondering if I should just cut that three prong connector off and wire the two connected springs together?



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
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I had to cut my nut in half .
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post #49 of 409 Old 03-22-2013, 05:18 PM
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

couldnt get a pic of where the ECM is hiding, its nested pretty far up under that dash behind and next to the glove box. just made a bracket to hold it where the access panel is facing up and cut a hole in the side of the glove box to feed the ribbon cable thru(for the Ostrich).

used a hole saw to cut a hole in the firewall in what would be the original location for the later EFI trucks

cut up the throttle cable bracket(for the 2.8 TBI) and welded a tab and gusset for a mounting bolt, then bolted on top of the thermostat housing.

HTH
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post #50 of 409 Old 03-22-2013, 07:02 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Converting to EFI. Finally...A little help

Quote:
Originally Posted by 34blazer View Post
couldnt get a pic of where the ECM is hiding, its nested pretty far up under that dash behind and next to the glove box. just made a bracket to hold it where the access panel is facing up and cut a hole in the side of the glove box to feed the ribbon cable thru(for the Ostrich).

used a hole saw to cut a hole in the firewall in what would be the original location for the later EFI trucks

cut up the throttle cable bracket(for the 2.8 TBI) and welded a tab and gusset for a mounting bolt, then bolted on top of the thermostat housing.

HTH

Thanks man...any idea what size that hole is? Also...why cut up the throttle bracket like that and route it that way? I am using a stock bracket on the stock intake...which is at the machine shop right now being modified for the 4.3 TBI.



1984 xcab s-10 3.4L GM crate engine 91 S10 TBI swap w bored intake, Edelbrock headers. 2" Rough Country Lift. Flowmaster, shift kit, e-fan.
The S-5 trailer-Half a 1st Gen LWB S-10


EFI swap https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...e-help-513616/

My build thread (3.4L)https://www.s10forum.com/forum/f106/...stions-427168/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer_X View Post
I had to cut my nut in half .
jimmykicker is offline  
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