Q? about spraying primer

[badnoma16]

its coming up on that time to start tearing down the truck and priming it.. i want to use a yellow primer with a electric blue pearl base coat.. i think the yellow would make that blue look pretty good.. anyway. when you spray primer does it HAVE to be in a booth. i mean it gets sanded numerous times anyway .. can u just backyard it lol.. with taped off area or sumthin..

[paint toad]

you are going to need to seal it before basecoat so it does not matter what color primer you use........

but no,primer does not have to be sprayed in a booth but you don't want to spray it in the backyard either.....

i suggest ALOT of research before you continue.....

[Qsbodydrop10]

we hardly ever seal anything at work just finish primer in 600 we use sikkens tho

[badnoma16]

yea well im gonna be in a garage.. with visquine around all the walls floor and ceiling.. and a few vents .. so its not a booth.. but kinda ghetto.. def will get the job done.. and yea i thought i had needed to seal but the body shop around here told me to just bring it to bare metal and etch it then spray the 2k primer im using and then bring it to him to get it sprayed.. what do u suggest toad??

[paint toad]

Quote: Originally Posted by Qsbodydrop10

we hardly ever seal anything at work just finish primer in 600 we use sikkens tho

that's your problem......

obviously you do not have alot of experience doing completes or buying material yourself.......

and sikkens is good paint.....but it's not ALL THAT.........

[paint toad]

Quote: Originally Posted by badnoma16

yea well im gonna be in a garage.. with visquine around all the walls floor and ceiling.. and a few vents .. so its not a booth.. but kinda ghetto.. def will get the job done.. and yea i thought i had needed to seal but the body shop around here told me to just bring it to bare metal and etch it then spray the 2k primer im using and then bring it to him to get it sprayed.. what do u suggest toad??

it's not up to me,it's up to your painter....if he wants etch then urethane then do it his way.....

[badnoma16]

ohh ok kool.. thanxs

[DTrickz]

Quote: Originally Posted by Qsbodydrop10

we hardly ever seal anything at work just finish primer in 600 we use sikkens tho

yea yall gotta be wasting paint. I dont know about sikkens but i assume its gray therefore anything light (white) or dark (black) it gonna take a whole lot more paint to get it covered and looking right. Sealer gives u a good uniform base to paint over. Also can feel in minor pin holes or scratches..Sealer FTW

[sik_kreations_951]

on completes yes. on small blend areas if u primer it right and feather it. u can use a color blender or baseclear as ur sealer and spray the whole panel. then u wont get any dry spray outside the blend. id rather do that then seal.

[paint toad]

Quote: Originally Posted by sik_kreations_951

on completes yes. on small blend areas if u primer it right and feather it. u can use a color blender or baseclear as ur sealer and spray the whole panel. then u wont get any dry spray outside the blend. id rather do that then seal.

sshhhhhh.........you are gonna confuse the newbies......they don't need to know about wet bedding yet

[sik_kreations_951]

Quote: Originally Posted by paint toad

sshhhhhh.........you are gonna confuse the newbies......they don't need to know about wet bedding yet

i know there is too much shit to know that ends up contradicting the basics in the certain situations, BUT thats the only way to do it right when it comes down to those times.



on a complete with a bunch of different primer spots and changing the color, yes u should seal.

a few primer spots and repainting same color, and u know the color covers good, not so bad.

thats always been my opinion.

[Qsbodydrop10]

everything we paint at work , a complete or not, we try not to seal anything. we just got finished with a ford f150 that was a complete, had spots of primer, didnt seal anything. it took 4 coats to completely cover everything, and we literaly only had 2 dirt nibs in the entire truck.... with sealer comes alot of dirt........ and yes i do have plenty of experience. ive sprayed dupont, ppg, and sikkens, and niether ppg or duponts' base coat come even close to covering like sikkens basecoat. and with sikkens i can make the primer whatever color i want. im not saying that sikkens is the best inthe world, but from my standpoint its the best thats been available to me... just my 2 cents

[paint toad]

Quote: Originally Posted by Qsbodydrop10

everything we paint at work , a complete or not, we try not to seal anything. we just got finished with a ford f150 that was a complete, had spots of primer, didnt seal anything. it took 4 coats to completely cover everything, and we literaly only had 2 dirt nibs in the entire truck.... with sealer comes alot of dirt........ and yes i do have plenty of experience. ive sprayed dupont, ppg, and sikkens, and niether ppg or duponts' base coat come even close to covering like sikkens basecoat. and with sikkens i can make the primer whatever color i want. im not saying that sikkens is the best inthe world, but from my standpoint its the best thats been available to me... just my 2 cents

well...i also have a bit of experience....and i know this:

when i wrecked my truck,the shop that i repaired it at used sikkens.....after blocking my bed out with 320 dry,i buzzed it all with 320 da dry.....1 coat of sealer and 2 coats of color........

when i spotted in the repairs on the cab corners i final prepped with 800 da and did not seal....it took 5 coats of paint to achieve coverage!!!

when i originally shot my truck i did not seal and i prepped with 600 wet....it took 6 coats of dbu

when i shot my tonneau i prepped with 320 da and sealed...took 2 coats of dbc!!!!

sealer has other advantages but just go with what you know........

[dimedragin22s]

Quote: Originally Posted by Qsbodydrop10

everything we paint at work , a complete or not, we try not to seal anything. we just got finished with a ford f150 that was a complete, had spots of primer, didnt seal anything. it took 4 coats to completely cover everything, and we literaly only had 2 dirt nibs in the entire truck.... with sealer comes alot of dirt........ and yes i do have plenty of experience. ive sprayed dupont, ppg, and sikkens, and niether ppg or duponts' base coat come even close to covering like sikkens basecoat. and with sikkens i can make the primer whatever color i want. im not saying that sikkens is the best inthe world, but from my standpoint its the best thats been available to me... just my 2 cents

so when you blocked you didnt sand threw to bare metal or filler or maybe you didnt block sand it at all. and with sealer comes alot of dirt but you only got two nibs in the whole thing when u paint it, thats wierd, even if you got nibs in sealer and can still sand them out but what ever works for you

[paint toad]

he said he didn't seal it.....

obviously his boss is not the smartest and does not understand the benefits of sealer.......and has a dirty booth too

hmmmm.......the price of basecoat,let alone sikkens,is through the roof......

the cost of sealer is well worth the savings on color and labor to apply it.......but whatever

[Qsbodydrop10]

right.................. well i dont pay for the materials and we have NEVER had a problem... if there is a cut through we just spot sealed the spot... plus our sikkens rep recomended it this way, think what u want

[Qsbodydrop10]

Quote: Originally Posted by paint toad

well...i also have a bit of experience....and i know this:

when i wrecked my truck,the shop that i repaired it at used sikkens.....after blocking my bed out with 320 dry,i buzzed it all with 320 da dry.....1 coat of sealer and 2 coats of color........

when i spotted in the repairs on the cab corners i final prepped with 800 da and did not seal....it took 5 coats of paint to achieve coverage!!!

when i originally shot my truck i did not seal and i prepped with 600 wet....it took 6 coats of dbu

when i shot my tonneau i prepped with 320 da and sealed...took 2 coats of dbc!!!!

sealer has other advantages but just go with what you know........

with the right colored primer i can have full basecoat coverage in 2 coats

[paint toad]

Quote: Originally Posted by Qsbodydrop10

right.................. well i dont pay for the materials and we have NEVER had a problem... if there is a cut through we just spot sealed the spot... plus our sikkens rep recomended it this way, think what u want

you don't have to seal anything.....i don't care......i have been doing this for years and there are plenty of times i do not seal spot jobs......you obviously do not understand the benefits/advantages of sealer or you would say that you understand what i am talking about or ask me to explain instead of throwing 'the rep' in the equation.....a rep is not a tech


funny....

[paint toad]

Quote: Originally Posted by Qsbodydrop10

with the right colored primer i can have full basecoat coverage in 2 coats

i don't believe that you get full coverage of a spot of primer and an acceptable blend in two coats.....

(i know how ''hot'' sikkens is and i was told not to pound it,by someone that had,at the time,been spraying it for 5 years)

[Qsbodydrop10]

i guess i dont know what im talking about ure the master painttoad

[dimedragin22s]

toad why you got to hurt these ignoart peoples feelings all the time?

[sik_kreations_951]

Quote: Originally Posted by Qsbodydrop10

i guess i dont know what im talking about ure the master painttoad

ur still young. ive been there with toad. he knows his place when it comes to custom. but 90% of the times he is 100% correct. the other 10% my experiences or teachings, gets the other 10% and thus a disagreement. the other 8% of the time, he respects my way, but has his.

but **** ya on the sealer. im doing a complete repaint on a hot rod flamed taco. former minitruckin cover.

http://www.minitruckinweb.com/featur...cab/index.html

also in last months built or bought issue.

i get to da the flames with 220, then sand it all with 320 on the da. im saving money on paper, cuz 320 is cheaper then 600. time, cuz 320 cust amazingly fast. and i know im gunna have alot of tooth. not to mention i have somewhat a barrier over the other paint job. basecoat would probably ghost.

[Dork]

I'm bored so I'll put my 2 cents in. I usually seal most all the time. I don't seal if I think I'm cutting it close on blend room on a panel, or if its a smallish primer spot and I know the color covers well. I always seal if I broke through the primer anywhere, and always seal completes. The times I'm not sealing, I make sure my primer is sanded out to 600 or so and always shoot some clear base/color blender over it and the whole panel first before color.

[Futuresweets10]

Since no one else is asking.... Toad you keep talking about the other benefits of sealer. What are they?

[paint toad]

Quote: Originally Posted by Qsbodydrop10

i guess i dont know what im talking about ure the master painttoad

instead of being a smartass,you should ask questions so you can get more knowledge.....

Quote: Originally Posted by dimedragin22s

toad why you got to hurt these ignoart peoples feelings all the time?

i wanted him to ask why,but he seems to know too much already....

Quote: Originally Posted by sik_kreations_951

ur still young. ive been there with toad. he knows his place when it comes to custom. but 90% of the times he is 100% correct. the other 10% my experiences or teachings, gets the other 10% and thus a disagreement. the other 8% of the time, he respects my way, but has his.

well,as much fun as we've had arguing with each other,it's nice to finally respect each others procedures,huh?

Quote: Originally Posted by Dork

I'm bored so I'll put my 2 cents in. I usually seal most all the time. I don't seal if I think I'm cutting it close on blend room on a panel, or if its a smallish primer spot and I know the color covers well. I always seal if I broke through the primer anywhere, and always seal completes. The times I'm not sealing, I make sure my primer is sanded out to 600 or so and always shoot some clear base/color blender over it and the whole panel first before color.

EXACTLY.....and with your experience with colors you know that most light colored metallics and pearls require 800 grit

Quote: Originally Posted by Futuresweets10

Since no one else is asking.... Toad you keep talking about the other benefits of sealer. What are they?

a. sealer is cheap compared to basecoat........some colors are upwards of 6-700 bux a gallon.......doesn't it make more sense to put down $100 worth of sealer and only $300-400 of basecoat?

b. basecoat is thin and requires a finer sand scratch(tooth) than sealer which requires more labor in prep time

c. basecoat is the weakest link in a paintjob.....doesn't it make more sense to provide a more aggressive tooth for the sealer then spray the basecoat on the sealer so it achieves a chemical bond with the sealer?



cliff's:

prepping a complete with 320,then sealing provides a uniform ground color and excellent mechanical adhesion.......the base coat can now rely on a chemical adhesion to the sealer instead of a mechanical bond of fine scratches......

this saves time and money.......1 coat of sealer and 2 coats of base takes less time to apply than 4 coats of base,which equals savings in labor and material cost.......


i have run shops and i buy my own material for my side jobs and my own projects.......i also have hands on and do not need a rep to tell me how to do it........people should keep an open mind and learn things instead of arguing with me....this is not my first rodeo

[sik_kreations_951]

hell the sem rep said if i was doing a solid, like black, with other layers, i could go 220 on a da and not have scratches. kind of hard to believe, but hey, whatever.

[Draggin97]

i got a good story for ya sik, a shop i used to work at the painter da'ed every thing he could and i mean everthing... He prepped primer with 280 dry on the da, he also did the same on new e-coated panels. The shop was using dupont, chroma base-chroma premier to be specific. He also used red scuff pads dry to do prep the rest of everything... . Somehow he got away with it tho... on high metallics you could always pick out scratches where the base drifted into the red scuff pad scratches. He also prepped old clear with 800-1000 tho go figure...

[Qsbodydrop10]

i dont want to ask u questions because i KNOW the product I SPRAY...
in sikkens training they tell u that you lose adhesion using sealer, and for "not pounding it on" the first coat of base goes on 80% wet second 60% wet and third 50% ......

thats sikkens, thats what i know and was taught by the company who sells the shit, so thats what ill stick with

as for paint toad... i know plenty of guys ure age that have been in the game for a while and they are just like u, never with an open mind and real quick to tell the 21 year old to **** off because "he doesnt know anything"