Vehicle black box requirement may start with 2015 model year

[AWD V8]

Big brother is watching how you drive!

Well if a US bill gets passed.

Quote:

Motorists- beware. A U.S. Senate transportation bill (S. 1813) is currently being negotiated in the U.S. House and Senate, and the Senate recently inserted a provision in the bill that would mandate the use of black boxes in all vehicles starting with the 2015 model year.

This article; http://blog.gasbuddy.com/posts/Vehic...6041-1015.aspx

[s10xtremist]

I'm not concerned for two reasons:

1) I don't buy new vehicles.

2) Events near the end of this year will be the beginning of the prophesied Holy War, and we won't be around to see 2015.

[JCmopar]

I'm not concerned for one reason:

1) I wont have the money to afford a 2015 vehicle until about 2030

[-YumYum97s10-]

If vehicles continue to be as ugly as the last couple years, i won't own a newer vehicle..problem solved.

[BlazerZR5]

lol@holy war!! those bible thumping southerners!! lol

[-YumYum97s10-]

Quote: Originally Posted by BlazerZR5

lol@holy war!! those bible thumping southerners!! lol

I didnt wanna be the one to post and laugh about this..appreciate it

[TC-S10]

Same thing they have been doing in aviation for decades.

[colbye32]

who cares

[s10xtremist]

Quote: Originally Posted by BlazerZR5

lol@holy war!! those bible thumping southerners!! lol

Quote: Originally Posted by -YumYum97s10-

I didnt wanna be the one to post and laugh about this..appreciate it

I edited my user title to help clarify my last post, as well as many previous and future posts.

[s10dragn]

i dont like the idea of a black box, but its not the bible thumping southerners that are calling for the end of time in 2012.

[comics22]

yea black box or not it wouldnt be hard to disable it haha i mean its got wires to it and out of it i assume.

but i agree: new cars are just ugly to me and so bland - everythign is automatic or gay paddle shift or "manual mode" (aka videogame racing wheel mode), power windows and locks is standard, interiors all seem the same even a few with idiotic placements for most used buttons and such.

[illest G]

there are a lot of newer cars that i like. but chances of me buying a 2015 model anywhere near the year 2015 is highly unlikely.

[cpolaris502]

Many cars already have a type of black box device (as the picture in the link shows 2004 Envoy). It doesn't record audio or stuff like that usually but they do keep track of all kinds of driver inputs for up to around 5 mins before crashing or so. They can tell if the brakes were hit, throttle input, speed, etc.

[GET_LOW]

Quote: Originally Posted by cpolaris502

Many cars already have a type of black box device (as the picture in the link shows 2004 Envoy). It doesn't record audio or stuff like that usually but they do keep track of all kinds of driver inputs for up to around 5 mins before crashing or so. They can tell if the brakes were hit, throttle input, speed, etc.

This.

I didn't read the article. But systems like this have been in cars for awhile now. On-star is linked in with the system IIRC.

The black box is a good idea I think.

[jtcfanof3]

Progressive allready offers a "black box" that you yourself install to get better insurance rates.........
http://www.progressive.com/auto/snapshot.aspx
The government already has a similar thing going on with the auto makers with mode $0A, no more autozone clearing thoe codes for you to pass emissions, even if you've gone through one trip and passed readyness monitors.

Now for the TENTH mode...Mode $0A.

I want to thank Mike McCarthy, a representative of the California Air Resources Board, for his help and explanation of this new mode. Here's what he shared with me:
"... there is a new type of generic fault code coming known as permanent
fault codes. It will look the same as Mode $03 (confirmed codes) and
Mode $07 (pending codes) in the Pxxxx format (or Uxxxx or Cxxxx). It
will be Mode $0A if you are in to the SAE J1979 terminology. New draft
versions of J1979 have some info but all it really does it tell scan
tool designers how to read the bits and bytes and display them on a tool
as Pxxxx or whatever. To tool users, it will be just another menu
selection for fault codes.

The only place that really describes how they work, at this point, is
our (ARB's) OBD II regulation. The bad news is that it is in
'regulatory' language so it takes a little bit of thinking to get in the
right mindset to understand it and comprehend it. In the not too
distant future, I expect you will see descriptions in some OEMs service
info about them and how they work. You can find stuff in our regulation
here: http://www.arb.ca.gov/regact/obdii06/19682clean.pdf
And specifically in section (d)(2.5) starting around page 10.

The quick summary is this. When the MIL comes on and a confirmed code
is stored, the code is also stored as a permanent code in NVRAM. If the
MIL goes off by itself (e.g., after 3 good trips), the permanent code
goes away (and the confirmed code acts just like it does today by
staying around for 40 warm-up cycles). So, without somebody clearing
codes or disconnecting batteries, permanent codes don't mean much--they
are there when the MIL is on, they are gone when the MIL is off.

But, in the case of somebody clearing codes, permanent DTCs, since they
are stored in NVRAM, are not erased by any scan tool command (generic or
enhanced) nor by any disconnecting of power (battery, fuse, etc.). So,
if you have the MIL on for P0420 (or any other code), you will have a
confirmed code and a permanent code. If you clear codes, the MIL goes
off, the confirmed code goes away, readiness sets to not
ready/incomplete, but the permanent code will still be stored and read
P0420. The permanent code will not make the MIL come back on but will
stay there until the monitor/diagnostic for P0420 has a chance to run
again and conclude that the system is passing (and erase the permanent
code) or failing (and store a confirmed code and turn the MIL back on).


Permanent codes tell you more than readiness because, while incomplete
readiness also tells you that a particular monitor has not run, it can
only tell you that for some monitors and it doesn't tell you if that
particular car used to have the MIL on and if so, why it was on. So,
say you have two cars side by side, one with the MIL on for P0420, one
with no MIL. You clear codes and drive them until readiness is all set
except for the catalyst monitor. On one car, all you know is the
catalyst monitor is incomplete. On the other car you, you know the
catalyst monitor is incomplete and this very car used to have the MIL on
for a catalyst fault and the catalyst monitor has never run and passed
since that catalyst fault was present. In an I/M scenario, you would
want to be more suspicious/stringent of the latter car and not let that
car through until you had more confirmation that the catalyst fault was
no longer present.

Bottom line is that in an I/M scenario, it lets you very selectively
identify cars that used to have the MIL on, have had codes cleared
recently, and have not had a chance to run and pass the very same
monitor that was previously turning the MIL on. For a repair tech that
is legitimately fixing problems, it shouldn't hassle him or his
customers as part of the process will likely include either the tech or
the vehicle owner operating the car to run monitors after the repair and
before re-inspection and the monitor will pass and the permanent fault
code will disappear. For those trying to clear codes and sneak back
through the I/M test before the fault is re-detected, this will make it
much harder to do that."

http://workshop.search-autoparts.com...675/31710.html

[frostystones]

"the box would remain property of the vehicle owner"

If you own it, you can unplug it. though, that might disable the vehicle at the same time. But I'm sure there will be a work around within a few months after its inception.

[JeremyCollins13]

This would kill my insurance rates. LOL - Bye bye license, hello jail cell. I'll stick with old vehicles til it isnt possible anymore.

[mostizzle]

I like black box.

[LanCo Rider]

Rest assured they will most definitely make it illegal to tamper with the box. Even if you've paid for the vehicle 100%. Don't act like you actually own the things you pay for. The government will tell you what to do with whatever it wants with no regard for what's right or wrong as long as they have it their way.

[joedoh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18N2k1TBBRE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18N2k1TBBRE

I already have black box in my car. everybody everybody is one of my favorite 90s songs


progressives snapshot box would likely explode in my daily, turbo 2.3 and acceleration as graceful as a hammer.

[BigAl1120]

Quote: Originally Posted by mostizzle

I like black box.

Me too,

[Omar's10]

Today, I heard a conversation at a car meet and some guy was saying that if you drive a car (he said 370z) over a certain speed(120 according to him), it voids the warranty and they know because the car's computer will tell them

^^^ Can anyone confirm this?

[jtcfanof3]

That I don't know, but I do know that GM will void your warranty if you have an engine failure and you were not using Dexos on 2011 and newer engines. They will cut off the convertors and test them to verify no other oil type was used. Because even the best sealed engine still burns a small amount of oil

So if they conclude you were not using Dexos your'e out the engine and the convertors and now own a 3000lb paper weight, unless you pay for the repair out of pocket.

[benster]

Quote: Originally Posted by Omar's10

Today, I heard a conversation at a car meet and some guy was saying that if you drive a car (he said 370z) over a certain speed(120 according to him), it voids the warranty and they know because the car's computer will tell them

^^^ Can anyone confirm this?

dunno if they will void the warranty or not, but a buddy that was working at bmw told me they can see the average speed their customers have been going at. I don't remember him telling me if they can see the max speed but it is highly possible. btw this was in 2006 I heard that.

[jtcfanof3]

Anyone can see average speed in most newer cars, scroll through the drivers info display, among DTE and fuel economy you will see average speed.

[ransomethan]

Quote: Originally Posted by Omar's10

Today, I heard a conversation at a car meet and some guy was saying that if you drive a car (he said 370z) over a certain speed(120 according to him), it voids the warranty and they know because the car's computer will tell them

^^^ Can anyone confirm this?

We get stuff like this from time to time. If someone has a potential warrantee engine we don't touch it if there's any ECM reprogram or access port. Same thing for catalytic converters and anything else that may come up.

There's kids that come in with check engine lights on and the computer can tell us how fast you were going, engine load, rpm, and average speed like stated above. "i have a check engine light and i dont have 60k yet" sorry bud, you were doing 120 mph. Cant help you there. The info you can get from cars nowadays is incredible

[GoingCustom]

If the stock vehicle is capable of 120 mph, how would that void your warranty? Seems like a manufactures way of saying we building shitty cars and we won't warranty them, but we would be happy to take your money.

[ransomethan]

Their excuse is that we can't verify the concern because we can't duplicate what happened legally. There's more warrantee issues with people modifying their cars than anything really

[Curtis262]

fords have a system like that on the diesel trucks but it trips at about 80MPH it reads as an overspeed code

[jtcfanof3]

Whats the over speed code Curtis? Is it a P code? I work on a lot diesel Fords, but not warranty so Ive not paid any attention to that code on our IDS, or I never seen the code before.

[JeremyCollins13]

I KNOW Nissan has something like this (uncle is lead mechanic for Nissan of Orange) and if you go past 100mph your warranty is automaticly void... same if you turn off the traction control though. Also if you run the wrong oil or burn the wrong gas or if you use non-nissan parts (aftermarket) you're screwed.

[BlazerZR5]

^ I don't think they can force you to use only OE parts? Somebody cried about it already and I heard they passed some law stopping auto makers from doing that?

Did anybody hear about the blue exhaust fluid? it's a Mercadies thing I guess? It makes your exhaust cleaner on diesels? I read about it in one of our tech mags.if you run out it disables your car so it won't run?

[jtcfanof3]

Probably the same thing as Urea that all diesels have to burn. If you run it empty, the next key cycle the truck will not start. They are talking all vehicles running Urea tanks.

[mostizzle]

lolpiss.

[jtcfanof3]

Public release date: 10-Nov-2008
[ Print | E-mail | Share ] [ Close Window ]

Contact: Dr. Thomas Hargrove
thargrove@ifdc.org
256-381-6600
IFDC

Urea tanks on diesel trucks -- that's the law in the United States starting in 2010

Automotive grade of world's most widely used nitrogen fertilizer used to meet new US environmental regulations to cut air pollution


IMAGE: A prototype diesel truck with a urea tank and SCR unit.
Click here for more information.

Urea tanks will be standard equipment for most new diesel trucks, buses, cars, and sport utility vehicles (SUVs) manufactured in the United States after Jan. 1, 2010. An automotive grade of urea will be injected into the vehicles' exhaust stream to "scrub" nitrogen oxide (NOx) from the diesel exhaust.
NOx, a major air pollutant, contributes to smog, which causes asthma and respiratory and heart diseases.
The system, urea SCR or "urea-based selective catalytic reduction," is the only technology available that can remove enough NOx from diesel exhaust to comply with strict new limits imposed by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), says Glenn Kedzie, Environmental Counsel for the American Trucking Associations.
The automotive urea, called "diesel exhaust fluid" (DEF) in the United States and AdBlue, a trademarked name in Europe, reduces NOx by as much as 90% alone, and can take NOx to near-zero levels when used in combination with diesel particulate filter technology, says Kim Doran, spokesperson of the newly formed North American SCR Stakeholders Group and editor of FactsAboutSCR.com, a Web site dedicated to SCR news.
DEF and AdBlue are an aqueous urea solution 32 (AUS 32), a clear 32.5% nitrogen solution of high-purity urea in demineralized water. The urea solutions are safe to handle, manufacturers claim. AdBlue can be bought in bulk in Europe or by the liter at some service stations.
The advent of DEF and AdBlue is creating a new demand for urea, the world's most widely used nitrogen fertilizer. Some are concerned that the new use will drive fertilizer prices higher. Others think it will be an incentive for manufacturers to increase production and thus, lower prices.
"We know about diversion of traditional food crops such as corn or sugarcane to biofuels like ethanol—but now urea, a basic input for food production, is also going into fuel," says Dr. Amit Roy, President and CEO of the International Center for Soil Fertility and Agricultural Development (IFDC).
"Ironically, cleaning our environment is a key reason for both technologies."

Manufacturers Adopting Urea SCR Technology More than half a million diesel trucks in Europe now use urea SCR and the fleet is growing by about 25,000 trucks per month, according to Integer Research, a London-based market analysis firm specializing in urea SCR.
Doran says that SCR technology is being adopted by passenger car and light truck manufacturers serving the United States including Audi, BMW, Hyundai, Jeep, Kia, MiniCooper, and Volkswagen. Mercedes-Benz is introducing three new diesel-powered SUVs that use urea SCR technology into the United States in late 2008. Urea SCR is also used in Japan and Singapore and will soon be used in China.
Manufacturers in the commercial trucking industry adopting SCR include Freightliner, Kenworth, Mack, Peterbilt, and Volvo. Leading engine manufacturers using SCR include Cummins and Detroit Diesel Corp.

Future Demand Consumption of the urea solution is about 3% of the diesel consumption. Diesel trucks average 6.5 miles per gallon (2.8 km/liter). An average diesel truck will need to refill its 20-gallon tank of DEF every 4,000 to 6,000 miles (76 liters every 6,400 to 9,600 km).
Urea to reduce NOx emissions now consumes 0.3 to 0.4 million metric tons (mt) of urea in Western Europe, says Stephen Zwart, Licensing Manager of Netherlands-based Stamicarbon, the world's largest licensor of urea plant technology. In 10 years the current truck fleet in Western Europe will have been replaced, and urea use will be 3 to 4 million mt.
Future urea demands generated by SCR technology in the United States have been calculated by Dr. Carlos Baanante, IFDC Agricultural Economist.
In 2003, 213 billion liters of diesel fuel were used for transportation in Europe and 146 billion liters in the United States, according to EarthTrends, an initiative of the World Resources Institute (http://earthtrends.wri.org/index.php).
Baanante assumes that only 7% of the diesel trucks in the United States will use urea SCR in 2010—the new trucks purchased that year.
"U.S. urea consumption for transportation will probably be the urea fertilizer equivalent of about 210,000 tons in 2010—but will be at least double that amount in 2011 and will increase rapidly afterward as older trucks are replaced with newer models that carry urea tanks," Baanante says.
The estimates assume that a liter of the solution weighs about 1 kg and the urea fertilizer contains 46% N, Baanante explains. Thus, 1 kg of urea solution would consume the N needed to produce 0.7065 kg of urea fertilizer. A conversion factor of 0.7065 is used to calculate urea solution consumption in terms of mt of urea-fertilizer equivalent.
"More than 90% of the world's urea production is for fertilizers—but new demands for urea SCR may change that," Baanante says. Urea is also used in animal feed, plastic and glue manufacture, highway de-icing, cloud seeding to induce rain, and tooth-whitening products.

Stringent New EPA Exhaust Emission Rules Kedzie says that diesel-powered vehicles manufactured in the United States in 2010 can emit no more than 0.2 grams of NOx per brake horsepower hour—90% less than current emissions. The new EPA regulations will not apply to vehicles manufactured before 2010.
Tractors, bulldozers, and other non-road vehicles must meet the new EPA standards by 2015. The U.S. timetable for ships and locomotive engines has not yet been set.
"Some trucking agencies are now buying new trucks that were scheduled for replacement after 2010 to avoid the expenses of urea tanks and buying and transporting urea," Kedzie says.
But Thom Albrecht, a transportation equity analyst with Stephens Inc. in Virginia, United States, thinks that most corporate carriers—the main buyers of heavy-duty trucks—will continue normal buying cycles as the next EPA emissions deadline looms in 2010. Albrecht reached that conclusion after surveying 88 carriers about their future buying plans.

New Demands Could Affect World Fertilizer Market Keith Stokes, proprietor of Stokes Engineering and IFDC consultant on urea production, says, "Urea for NOx reduction will create a new demand that could drive up fertilizer prices—just as ethanol production did."
But Doran of SCR Stakeholders says, "Demand for this automotive-grade urea is not expected to exceed 5% of the world's production. The new use of urea to control vehicle emissions could lead to increased investment and expand world capacity for urea production."

How Urea SCR Systems Work Urea SCR cleans the exhaust after combustion. The urea solution is held in a separate storage tank and injected as a fine mist into the hot exhaust gases. The heat breaks the urea down into ammonia—the actual NOx-reducing agent. Through a catalytic converter, the ammonia breaks the NOx down to harmless nitrogen (N) gas and water vapor. The exhaust is no longer a pollutant; the atmosphere is about 80% nitrogen gas.
Bill Herz, Vice President of Scientific Programs for The Fertilizer Institute, based in Washington, D.C., says, "You hear a lot about harmful effects of fertilizer on ecosystems—but little about the positive role of urea in stripping away pollutants."
Doran says, "Because SCR technologies reduce NOx exhaust to almost zero, engines can be tuned to maximize fuel efficiency." The result is as much as a 3%��% fuel savings and reduced carbon dioxide emissions.
"The exhaust coming from the tailpipe of an SCR-equipped vehicle may actually be cleaner than the air around it," Doran adds.
In fact, according to Daimler Trucks, the engine efficiency achieved by using SCR technology in Europe has saved customers more than 280 million liters of diesel and nearly half a billion dollars in fuel spending. At the same time, the environment was spared about 800,000 metric tons of carbon dioxide.

A Trucker's Concerns "We're concerned because we don't know enough about the new urea technology," says Adam Collum, Manager and Co-Owner of Hellums Trucking Co. in Dennis, Mississippi, United States.
"A new heavy-duty diesel truck now costs about $100,000. Adding the urea SCR system will add $10,000 to the cost. How much more will the urea solution that we burn cost? What about maintenance? Will the urea cause corrosion?"
Doran says, "Urea can be corrosive to aluminum. Vehicle SCR systems and DEF dispensers have been designed to accommodate this and DEF is always stored in appropriate containers."

BlueTec Technology in Europe The new diesel SUVs coming from Daimler in Europe to the United States are called BlueTec models because they are equipped with BlueTec SCR injection systems—a technology that Mercedes-Benz has used in trucks and buses in Europe for years. For these models, the urea will come in cartridges that will be replaced during normal servicing.
Detroit Diesel Corp., a brand of Daimler Trucks North America, has announced that it will use BlueTec technology on all future trucks.
The Mercedes-Benz E320 BlueTec won the 2007 World Green Car of the Year Award partly for "paving the way for super-clean diesel technology around the world." The BlueTec diesel emissions control technology was declared the best new technology for 2007 by the Automotive Journalist Association of Canada.

Planning for the Future The North American SCR Stakeholders Group met to further plan the development of a distribution and retail infrastructure to ensure DEF availability in the United States in August in Dearborn, Michigan. Stakeholders include representatives of almost 200 organizations including diesel vehicle manufacturers, current and potential DEF producers, fuel and equipment distributors and retailers, as well as the U.S. EPA and Department of Energy, according to an Aug. 11 SCR Stakeholders news release.
Part of the work of the SCR Stakeholders Group involves development of a Web site locator for DEF similar to that used for AdBlue in Europe.
In Europe, AdBlue prices have almost doubled since mid-2007 and producers are finding it difficult to absorb cost increases for urea, Today's Trucking reported on July 18, 2008, citing Integer Research. "Add the fact that producers are getting better returns on urea when it is sold as fertilizer, and no wonder that prices have driven up," the report stated.

DEF Manufacturers Traditional fertilizer manufacturers will probably produce most DEF urea used in the United States. Producers in the SCR Stakeholders Group include Agrium, Brenntag North America, Dyno Nobel, Koch Industries, Potash Corporation of Saskatchewan, and Terra Industries.
Stephen Zwart of Stamicarbon says, "In Europe, manufacture of AdBlue has been a boon to many fertilizer manufacturers who now allocate part of their production to urea solution for the trucking industry."

Logistics of DEF Keith Stokes says that delivering urea to gas stations should not be a problem. "Although the United States has more than 30,000 gas stations, only 2,200 of them supply 97% of the heavy-duty vehicle market.
"But urea storage tanks in some regions will need heating coils to keep the solution above its 12° F [-11° C] freezing point."
Pilot Travel Centers, the largest retail operator of travel centers in the United States, announced rollout plans to make DEF available "at the pump" at more than 100 centers in mid to late 2009 in a Sept. 29 news release. The Pilot Centers will also carry prepackaged DEF.

Aqueous Urea Production Meanwhile, Mitsubishi is increasing production of high-grade aqueous urea solution for urea SCR systems, according to GreenCarCongress.com. The company's plant at Kitakyushu, Japan, has been running at about 20% capacity—about 2 million liters per year. As SCR demand increases, plans are to increase production to 10 million liters in 2008 and reach 50% capacity in 2009.
Japan's demand for high-grade aqueous urea is about 20,000 kiloliters per year, but industry sources expect it to increase to about 600,000 kiloliters in the future.

Need for Higher Production and More Efficient Use of Urea "The new demands for urea to treat diesel exhausts will make research to improve the efficiency of its use as a fertilizer even more important," says Ramon Lazo de la Vega, IFDC Senior Engineering Specialist. "IFDC works in three main areas to increase the efficiency of urea use: through deep placement of urea briquettes, especially in irrigated rice fields; through controlled-release fertilizers; and through nitrification and urease inhibitors that decrease nitrogen losses to the air through volatization and to groundwater through leaching.
"New urea plants are also being built. For example, two large urea plants are opening in Iran and one each in Egypt, Nigeria, Oman, and Russia."
IFDC's Amit Roy says, "Most basic fertilizer products used today—including major improvements of farm-use urea—were developed by the fertilizer program of the U.S.-based Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA) in the 1950s to 1970s when energy seemed cheap. With current manufacturing technology, the energy equivalent of four barrels of oil is used to convert 'free' atmospheric nitrogen to 1 ton of urea.
"The new demands emphasize the need for research to develop a new range of more energy-efficient technology—not only for food but now for use with fuel," Roy says.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-uto111008.php

[jtcfanof3]

We keep gallons of it on hand because we work on a lot of fleet trucks, F-550's mostly.

I should note, the empty Urea tank currently will not disable the vehicle next key on cycle, this is what they are talking about for future autmotive usage. Urea is all about fuel economy and less NOx, less EGR equals higher fuel mileage and less DPF regenerations, which if you own a diesel with DPF's you know how some have been problematic.
California is the main reason Urea injection has not been introduced into your every day driver vehicles. They dont want cars dying along the road side because of empty urea tanks. Thus the next key on cycle disabeling they are working on.

[ransomethan]

We use vw exhaust fluid jugs for our bulk windshield washer fluid because they're like 2.5 gallons and have a nice handle lol. Nice info up there

[BlazerZR5]

That's insane!! I already buy gas I can't afford! I see a future market for disabling that stuff,lol.id be ok with a check engine light but,not ok with my car disabling its self for me being cheap

[JeremyCollins13]

yep they force you to use Nissan-only parts much like automakers have been doing for a while. Several of Nissan's cars can only be worked on By Nissan as well. Not even an oil change is allowed from anyone else. The Skyline is insane with this stuff. It has Way too many things that Only Nissan can do. You can't hardly sneeze in it w/o voiding the warranty.

[jtcfanof3]

Disabeling emissions related items are the same thing hotrodders have been doing for years, however as you may know, cars have become somewhat complicated......I'm sure there will always be a way, but if you live in an area with inspections, $0A and Urea may just not allow you to get by with this anymore.
The problem is, emissions related items have become very costly to the consumer, ask anyone who has paid for the replacement of an EGR cooler on a 6.0 Ford.........ask those who have paid for DPF replacements....

[GoingCustom]

Getting rid of the DPF assembly on my 08 f350 is one of the best things I've done for that truck! Gained about 6 mpg (with dpf - 12 mpg city or highway, w/o dpf 18 city 22 highway) and have had far fewer problems than those who have kept the DPF. The diesel mechanic that I go to; he and I were talking about it the other day and commented on how much DPF systems are causing problems. From what I've read on some of the diesel forums, Ford even admits the DPF has problems, but won't come out and say if you get rid of it the truck would run a lot better. I can only imagine what it's going to be like once the EPA comes down even harder on people for modifying/getting rid of systems like that.

[richey94]

so the new 2015 models will come with one of these?



SWEET!!!

[BanditS10]

The majority of vehicles produced since the early 2000s already have them. They are only accessible by the manufacturer, but they are there.

There was a local incident where a man killed his wife by driving his Sierra into a reservoir, the local sheriffs wanted to know what took place prior to the accident. They contacted by dad who made a few calls to people he knew at GM, they said yes the information is there and no they cannot have it. The only time that information is released is when GM is brought into the litigation and/or are being personally sued. It is there to protect them and extensively encrypted so that is isn't easily readable.

There have been many cases where manufacturers are sued due to personal negligence and have prevailed because of the system. People who claim their brakes didn't work when in reality it was proven in court that they never even touched them.

This law would simply make the information more available.