The New Firearm Thread

[GETNLWR]

Quote: Originally Posted by 2Xtreme

oh, didnt know that...i thought they were completly illegal! thanks

could also be FAKE.

Machine guns and sound suppressors, grenades, RPG's, surface to air missles, C4 and many other fun toys are legal federally, its just some stupid states have rules against them.

[GETNLWR]

Quote: Originally Posted by GETNLWR

could also be FAKE.

Machine guns and sound suppressors, grenades, RPG's, surface to air missles, C4 and many other fun toys are legal federally REPOSET TO ADD (as long as you pay your transfer taxes they are legal), its just some stupid states have rules against them.

..

[not_possible]

yea there are a few states with stupid regulations. if alaska wasnt so damn cold id move back cuz u dont even have to have a permit to carry concealed. im not gonna complain about sc tho not too many stupid regulations, i believe suppressors/silencers are legal here also.

[Zapnoma]

Quote: Originally Posted by 2Xtreme

oh, didnt know that...i thought they were completly illegal! thanks

[GETNLWR]

Hey Zap, could you find and post the Grid showing what is allowed in what states. As in Sound supps, DD's, MG, AOW, SBR, SBS.

[NineSeven4Door]

to be quite honest....i love my WASR. I've but close to 1000 rounds through the pipe with only one jam, which was due to a brand new mag. The 23 is my daily carry, but only about 6 months old if that....get plenty of play time at the range though.... . LOL at that mag. thats what......100rd?

[NineSeven4Door]

Quote: Originally Posted by GETNLWR

could also be FAKE.

it is....came with the gun so hey,why not throw it on there.

[Zapnoma]

Quote: Originally Posted by GETNLWR

Hey Zap, could you find and post the Grid showing what is allowed in what states. As in Sound supps, DD's, MG, AOW, SBR, SBS.

Oo

Umm I can try and find it. I know of a few websites where it has all the info posted that I can link to though..

[Zapnoma]

Heres a site of the NFA laws by state:

http://www.mp5.net/info/sbsconr.htm

[GETNLWR]

Quote: Originally Posted by NineSeven4Door

to be quite honest....i love my WASR. I've but close to 1000 rounds through the pipe with only one jam, which was due to a brand new mag. The 23 is my daily carry, but only about 6 months old if that....get plenty of play time at the range though.... . LOL at that mag. thats what......100rd?

Ok, Yeah... Mine has been carried almost daily for 4 years and had close to 10k through it I think...



ETA: yes its a 100 rd mag

[nater006]

Quote: Originally Posted by GETNLWR

I was refering to how perfect it looked. I carry my 23 almost every day, the finish still looks good on mine but yours doesnt seem to be carried as much... No insult intended, I hope none was taken.

Rest assured, mine gets plenty of carry time. No offense taken at all. I was simply wondering what you meant. The pics of mine were when they were grubby, but nicely cleaned up, they basically look new... even though the 30 has had thousands of rounds through it and gets carried.

Dunno - I've *never* had wear issues with the nitride finish on these, ever. My P22 on the other hand... never gets carried but definitely shows wear at this point, just from plinking.

[nater006]

Quote: Originally Posted by Zapnoma

Heres a site of the NFA laws by state:

http://www.mp5.net/info/sbsconr.htm

Yeah... whatever-the-hell happened to packing.org? They had a pretty nice breakdown on state restrictions with links to the actual legislature when possible.

[nater006]

Edit: nevermind

[GETNLWR]

Quote: Originally Posted by nater006

Rest assured, mine gets plenty of carry time. No offense taken at all. I was simply wondering what you meant. The pics of mine were when they were grubby, but nicely cleaned up, they basically look new... even though the 30 has had thousands of rounds through it and gets carried.

Dunno - I've *never* had wear issues with the nitride finish on these, ever. My P22 on the other hand... never gets carried but definitely shows wear at this point, just from plinking.

the Glock coating is called Tennifer. Not nitride

[GETNLWR]

Quote: Originally Posted by GETNLWR

the Glock coating is called Tennifer. Not nitride

Time to explainmyself a little better. Glocks do not have a Nitride Coating. They have a variant of a nitride finish called Tennifer. It's VERY SIMILAR to nitride, but not the same. They are then Parkerized on top. Nitride or tennifer treatments have a final color of grey. (you occasionally see a gray GLOCK because the parkerising has worn off.) The Tennifer is not really a coating either, its a finish treatment absorbed about .05 into the metal. It creates a Rockwell Hardness of about 68. This finish you will mostlikely never wear through in your lifetime. The Parkerising will wear away after not much more than use after a few years worth of carry time. Sooooo....




There you have it.....

[nater006]

Yes, I'm aware of what it's called - sorry, I have nitride coated firearms too and wasn't totally thinking. It could be called goat cheese... the fact remains that I carry mine very regularly and it also looks new. That's all there is to it.

So, you can make a comment about the other dood's gun looking like "it needs more trigger time" but the reality of it is, it's baseless. I've put plenty of "trigger time" on mine and when cleaned up, it looks brand new.

There you have it....

[nater006]

You may also notice that my Model 30 does not have rails... showing... it's an older Model 30. Pretty sure I've had it for ~5 years now and carried it very regularly.

I'll clean it up and snap some new pics of it and show you that... wow... Glocks can look new after years of service.

My whole point is... YMMV. That's all there is to it. That is very difficult to argue against.

[GETNLWR]

Quote: Originally Posted by nater006

You may also notice that my Model 30 does not have rails... showing... it's an older Model 30. Pretty sure I've had it for ~5 years now and carried it very regularly.

I'll clean it up and snap some new pics of it and show you that... wow... Glocks can look new after years of service.

My whole point is... YMMV. That's all there is to it. That is very difficult to argue against.

it depends on a alot of factors including holsters too. Some holsters show more wear on the pistol.

I still Cant bieleve they put rails on the 29 and 30

[NineSeven4Door]

added a few accessories to the WASR today....

rail mount kit, tasco 3-9x42 scope with red/green crosshair illuminaion, muzzle brake, ergonomic(sp) pistol grip, and orange replacement front site.






better(somewhat) pic of the sight...

[nater006]

Quote: Originally Posted by GETNLWR

it depends on a alot of factors including holsters too. Some holsters show more wear on the pistol.

I still Cant bieleve they put rails on the 29 and 30

Why is that?

Truth be told, I'm somewhat envious of the rails, but not enough to decommission my current 30. Having the possibility of rail-mounted accessories - while unnecessary in some cases - would be cool.

[GETNLWR]

It's funny when you see how much of a lip is on the front of the attachment point. It almost looks like its going to break off. Atleast the XD is set up to use a mini light.

[nater006]

New topic to discuss: rifling.

Conventional (grooved) vs polygonal rifling. Who likes what and why?

Incidentally, I'm still somewhat surprised that Glock *only* manufactures the .45 ACP and .45 GAP with octagonal barrels. I'd almost have expected it on the .40 S&W barrels also.

Anyway, despite being unable to properly shoot lead (unjacketed) ammo, I prefer the polygonal barrel design. If I was target shooting, perhaps a conventional rifled barrel would be more preferable.

[GETNLWR]

Quote: Originally Posted by nater006

New topic to discuss: rifling.

Conventional (grooved) vs polygonal rifling. Who likes what and why?

Incidentally, I'm still somewhat surprised that Glock *only* manufactures the .45 ACP and .45 GAP with octagonal barrels. I'd almost have expected it on the .40 S&W barrels also.

Anyway, despite being unable to properly shoot lead (unjacketed) ammo, I prefer the polygonal barrel design. If I was target shooting, perhaps a conventional rifled barrel would be more preferable.

From My experiances you can shoot straight lead through a Polygonal rilfed barrel. Just dont shoot more than 250 rds or so. I know many people who do it with no problems. Suppsedely the lead creates deposits and make it so the barrel is tighter around the bullet and as the tolerances get tighter the barrel will eventually rupture.

I have a much easier time cleaning a poly barrel simply because the "lands and grooves" dot have any little crevices.

The reason that MFGs use POLY barrels is that they are supposed to increase the avg FPS of any given round. along with being easier to clean.


BTW HK like the Octagonal rifling too.

[nater006]

You can shoot lead out of them, yes. But, I sure as hell wouldn't, even with a cap of 250 rds. They do build up over time and that's a little too scary of a proposition for me.

I'm still trying to figure out why Glock didn't extend that to the .40 rd. Those are hexagonal. There isn't that much diameter difference between it and the .45 but... who knows . Just seems like more gas blowby.

[mattryanmusic]

Well, I just got back from a local indoor range. I've been debating between a XD 9mm or the Glock 19. I seemed to be more accurate with the Glock, but the lack of a safety kinda threw me off of it. At least the XD has the button on the grip.
Any opinions on the 2 or is there something else I should be looking into. I want something cheap enough to shoot regularly, but also want some stopping power since it will most likely be carried as well.

[nater006]

Personally, I'd go with whichever you feel more comfortable shooting. I felt weird without a safety at first, also, but now it's the only way to go. The Glock will not accidentally fire if you exercise proper technique and don't put something dumb like a 2lb target trigger on it..

The 9mm is a good choice for a compromise between economical shooting and knockdown power.

The 19 is also a good choice for a carry gun.

[mattryanmusic]

I think I'm going to go shoot it again with an instructor to give me some pointers on proper stance, and firing techniques, I've put thousands or rounds thru a m4/16 over the years and have always been fairly accurate, but I sucked ass with the pistols.

[Zapnoma]

Quote: Originally Posted by mattryanmusic

Well, I just got back from a local indoor range. I've been debating between a XD 9mm or the Glock 19. I seemed to be more accurate with the Glock, but the lack of a safety kinda threw me off of it. At least the XD has the button on the grip.
Any opinions on the 2 or is there something else I should be looking into. I want something cheap enough to shoot regularly, but also want some stopping power since it will most likely be carried as well.

FWIW, I sold my XD9 and bought a G19 to replace it.

My single only complaint with the XD pistols and its personal preference is no fingered grooves. Thats what I love about the Glocks....and ultimately being so similar between the pistols, why I went to a Glock.

[not_possible]

Quote: Originally Posted by mattryanmusic

Well, I just got back from a local indoor range. I've been debating between a XD 9mm or the Glock 19. I seemed to be more accurate with the Glock, but the lack of a safety kinda threw me off of it. At least the XD has the button on the grip.
Any opinions on the 2 or is there something else I should be looking into. I want something cheap enough to shoot regularly, but also want some stopping power since it will most likely be carried as well.

i'd go with 9mm then if i was you...and don't worry so much about stopping power, imo ppl get too caught up on it. u can always put another round or 2 into your target so get the biggest caliber you can shoot comfortably and be accurate with quickly. i remember reading somewhere where someone said a hit with a .22 is more effective than a miss with a .45.

as far as glock or xd both are great guns, personal prefernce is what it usually comes down to...i like xd's but im gonna be goin with glock

[not_possible]

heres another pic of a couple of my cheapos hah...especially the clerke revolver. its a .32 and the the bauer .25, i love that lil pocket gun lots of fun to shoot. i've got a .22lr revolver too ill get a pic of it later. and my taurus pt92 is sold now, i got the beretta now so no point to have it.

[GETNLWR]

Quote: Originally Posted by nater006

Personally, I'd go with whichever you feel more comfortable shooting. I felt weird without a safety at first, also, but now it's the only way to go. The Glock will not accidentally fire if you exercise proper technique and don't put something dumb like a 2lb target trigger on it..

The 9mm is a good choice for a compromise between economical shooting and knockdown power.

The 19 is also a good choice for a carry gun.

WTF?
The 9mm is not a Compromise, its the BARE MINIMUM.

Quote: Originally Posted by mattryanmusic

Well, I just got back from a local indoor range. I've been debating between a XD 9mm or the Glock 19. I seemed to be more accurate with the Glock, but the lack of a safety kinda threw me off of it. At least the XD has the button on the grip.
Any opinions on the 2 or is there something else I should be looking into. I want something cheap enough to shoot regularly, but also want some stopping power since it will most likely be carried as well.

The Grip Button Doesnt really add much safety to a pistol. How do you accidentally pull a 5.5LB trigger back 5/8 of an inch? You dont. You keep you god damned finger off the trigger until you are ready to put a hole through something. Nuff Said.

Come to the range with me... We can find you a nice pistol. We have about everything avalible to try.

most Major MFG's and various calibers


I do reccomend a 40SW for a few reasons.

[not_possible]

i was thinkin along the same lines...i think compromise was just a bad word choice. i get what he meant tho 9mm is a good choice for cheaper shooting and still good for self defense. i dont get into the stopping power debate tho...anything worth shooting is worth shooting more than once and 9mm would accomplish the same goal as .45. def wouldn't go any less than 9mm tho personally.

anybody had any experience with kel-tec's? i was lookin a used pf9 the other day...i almost bought it, but need to save the money and don't really know too much about kel-tec's. but a female friend of mine was with me and she wants it now. they reliable?

[mattryanmusic]

Name a time and place and I'll be there. I sent you a pm about those parts I have hanging around, they're yours.

[nater006]

Quote: Originally Posted by GETNLWR

WTF?
The 9mm is not a Compromise, its the BARE MINIMUM.

What is your deal.... and what the hell are you talking about?

I said compromise between knockdown power and COST TO SHOOT. That means, you trade some knockdown power for cheaper shells. You can pay more for a larger caliber and have increased knockdown power, or you can pay less and have less knockdown power. Hence the word... compromise.

Jeez man, read the entire message before being a jerk.

[nater006]

Quote: Originally Posted by GETNLWR

WTF?

The Grip Button Doesnt really add much safety to a pistol. How do you accidentally pull a 5.5LB trigger back 5/8 of an inch? You dont. You keep you god damned finger off the trigger until you are ready to put a hole through something. Nuff Said.

Did you ever stop to think that perhaps somebody prefers having a safety and can keep their finger off the trigger? Guess not.

While I agree with you about keeping your finger off the trigger, and carry external safety-less guns myself, it comes down to preference. There is no right or wrong here with choosing a safety or not.

Nuff said.

[GETNLWR]

Quote: Originally Posted by mattryanmusic

Name a time and place and I'll be there. I sent you a pm about those parts I have hanging around, they're yours.

I am probably going to hit the range on Tuesday. I sent you my phone number, Give me a call.

Quote: Originally Posted by nater006

Did you ever stop to think that perhaps somebody prefers having a safety and can keep their finger off the trigger? Guess not.

While I agree with you about keeping your finger off the trigger, and carry external safety-less guns myself, it comes down to preference. There is no right or wrong here with choosing a safety or not.

Nuff said.

And Then you can keep in mind two more things... First and formost... external safetys and keeping ones finger off of the trigger are two very different things. If you have already agreed to that, as it seems you have had by the post above... STFU.

Second, An XD's external safety is sporatic for adding "safety" at best. After being broken in I have seen these safetys require less than 2 lbs to compress.

Quote: Originally Posted by nater006

What is your deal.... and what the hell are you talking about?

I said compromise between knockdown power and COST TO SHOOT. That means, you trade some knockdown power for cheaper shells. You can pay more for a larger caliber and have increased knockdown power, or you can pay less and have less knockdown power. Hence the word... compromise.

Jeez man, read the entire message before being a jerk.

As I said its not a compromise, its the bare minimum. The 9mm is a Iffy choice at best. Many people are still pissed that is was passed into the US military as their sidearm caliber. When you have to use a 9mm to defned your self agaist a tweaker... or in the militarys case, AGAINST CRACKED OUT SOMALIANS... Then you can find out how much of a compramise it is. all that round does is compramise the safety of people that use it.

BTW 40 is only a hair more expensive, and has much better ballistics.


I am not a jerk, I am an ASSHOLE. Get it right.


Dont even get me back onto the whole "knockdown power" bullshit thats out there.

Maybe later we will show you how to cut and paste, so you dont have to have multiple posts like above...

[mattryanmusic]

That's kinda creepy to hear that the XD's safety has a tendency to wear out, I'm kinda starting to lose interest in it now. That and It didn't shoot as nice as the Glock.

[Golden]

I have a Mossberg 500. I am going to pick up a Benelli Nova here in a few months.

Today I went shooting. Shot my first AR15 today. It was AWESOME!

[mattryanmusic]

AR's a fun as hell, I'm a little burnt out on them just because I dragged mine around Iraq for 15 months, put 6 rounds thru it the whole time.

[nater006]

Take this for what it is: learn to be respectful.

My comment about the safeties: I disagreed with your initial comment because yes, they are two different things. You didn't acknowledge that but I did - your comment was simply that safeties are dumb because they are replaced by proper technique. While that can be correct, safeties are not a bad option - it is 100% preference. That's all.

You're twisting my comments about the 9mm stuff. You should have AGREED with me about it being a compromise and also stated that it is a "bare minimum" to you. Simple, isn't it? There's no need to be a jerk about it.

What happened in both of the above is that you took one small portion of my comment, out of context, and disagreed with it. That'd be like me copying "9mm" out of your post and saying "DUDE QUIT RECOMMENDING THAT!". Do you see what i'm saying?

Anyway, the above is meant with no ill will. Fighting is absolutely ridiculous. The reason I posted twice is because long posts, quoting portions of different peoples text, are often too much of a pain to try and address. No need to be a jerk and insult my computer skills.

Anyway, it is what it is. Please be respectful to me and I will be respectful to you. There is no need to be a jerk.

[2Xtreme]

Ok so moving on...I pick up my new .40 on Wednesday, I know I am getting hollow points for it but what brand should i get and i know for the range i should get the cheapest but again what brand should i get?

[GETNLWR]

Quote: Originally Posted by mattryanmusic

That's kinda creepy to hear that the XD's safety has a tendency to wear out, I'm kinda starting to lose interest in it now. That and It didn't shoot as nice as the Glock.

The 1911 style safety starts to wear like a real 1911, the springs steart to wear on that safety and it gets a little spongy. (yes i had one) it shot like a dream though. It was comfortable and reliable. I would trust my life to an XD. They have proven themselves. However I would grab a glock first, if it was avalible. (the xd i had was a fullsize blued 9mm).

Quote: Originally Posted by Golden

I have a Mossberg 500. I am going to pick up a Benelli Nova here in a few months.

Today I went shooting. Shot my first AR15 today. It was AWESOME!

Becareful they are addictive. They are also asexual... if you buy one. They will turn into two, then three, then four...

the real sad part is they are getting too expensive to feed.

I got to shoot a Benelli M3 a few months back... that is freakin awesome. Benelli/HK/fabarms makes a nice shotgun.

Quote: Originally Posted by mattryanmusic

AR's a fun as hell, I'm a little burnt out on them just because I dragged mine around Iraq for 15 months, put 6 rounds thru it the whole time.

Yeah, but yours had a happy switch..., 6 whole rounds? how long were you there? I thought you guys atleast had range time and had to keep up your practice?

Quote: Originally Posted by nater006

Take this for what it is: learn to be respectful.

My comment about the safeties: I disagreed with your initial comment because yes, they are two different things. You didn't acknowledge that but I did - your comment was simply that safeties are dumb because they are replaced by proper technique. While that can be correct, safeties are not a bad option - it is 100% preference. That's all.

You're twisting my comments about the 9mm stuff. You should have AGREED with me about it being a compromise and also stated that it is a "bare minimum" to you. Simple, isn't it? There's no need to be a jerk about it.

What happened in both of the above is that you took one small portion of my comment, out of context, and disagreed with it. That'd be like me copying "9mm" out of your post and saying "DUDE QUIT RECOMMENDING THAT!". Do you see what i'm saying?

Anyway, the above is meant with no ill will. Fighting is absolutely ridiculous. The reason I posted twice is because long posts, quoting portions of different peoples text, are often too much of a pain to try and address. No need to be a jerk and insult my computer skills.

Anyway, it is what it is. Please be respectful to me and I will be respectful to you. There is no need to be a jerk.

I Just refuse to reccomend a cartridge that is not truely adapted to the challanges of the time.

I'll say it again. I am not a jerk, I am an asshole. Please get that right.

[mattryanmusic]

yep, six rounds to zero my 68, that's all. I don't want to get into that one on a public forum. There's always that 1 guest viewing this thread, kinda makes me think it's big brother. I'll give you a call Monday afternoon to make plans for Tues.

[GETNLWR]

Quote: Originally Posted by mattryanmusic

yep, six rounds to zero my 68, that's all. I don't want to get into that one on a public forum. There's always that 1 guest viewing this thread, kinda makes me think it's big brother. I'll give you a call Monday afternoon to make plans for Tues.

Ok. Works for me.

I almost bought a Night vision scope today at the gunshow... So tempting...

only $1300

[Zapnoma]

Quote: Originally Posted by mattryanmusic

AR's a fun as hell, I'm a little burnt out on them just because I dragged mine around Iraq for 15 months, put 6 rounds thru it the whole time.

Put 48 through mine, we went a range and qualified with them less than a month to go before we left.

[nater006]

Well, keyword was compromise. That is acknowledgment of shortcomings in trade for another benefit (price, in this case). Totally valid argument.

Also, around here, the 9mm is significantly cheaper than .40 S&W ammo. We're talking to the tune of ~35% cheaper in the store, generally. The closest pricing I could find on crappy no-name ammo (likely reloads) was still 15% difference which can add up quite quickly. Generally, 25-35% is the number. (I just picked up some 'bulk' .45 ACP ammo the other day and was paying attention to pricing)

I don't think either of those is arguable, and I personally find the 9mm shell to be acceptable. Not everybody can handle a .40 S&W or .45 ACP. Using your argument from early in the thread, you can get higher volume 9mm magazines also since the rounds are smaller. There are benefits. Much better to properly handle a 9mm than improperly handle a .40 or .45. Hopefully everybody agrees on that one....

[Zapnoma]

Quote: Originally Posted by mattryanmusic

That's kinda creepy to hear that the XD's safety has a tendency to wear out, I'm kinda starting to lose interest in it now. That and It didn't shoot as nice as the Glock.

Any moving part built on anything has a tendency to wear out..

[GETNLWR]

Quote: Originally Posted by nater006

Well, keyword was compromise. That is acknowledgment of shortcomings in trade for another benefit (price, in this case). Totally valid argument.

Also, around here, the 9mm is significantly cheaper than .40 S&W ammo. We're talking to the tune of ~35% cheaper in the store, generally. The closest pricing I could find on crappy no-name ammo was still 15% difference which can add up quite quickly. Generally, 25-35% is the number. (I just picked up some 'bulk' .45 ACP ammo the other day and was paying attention to pricing)

I don't think either of those is arguable, and I personally find the 9mm shell to be acceptable. Not everybody can handle a .40 S&W or .45 ACP. Using your argument from early in the thread, you can get higher volume 9mm magazines also since the rounds are smaller. There are benefits. Much better to properly handle a 9mm than improperly handle a .40 or .45. Hopefully everybody agrees on that one....

I went to a gun show today... I try to buy all of my ammo in bulk simply because its always cheaper in quantity. Todays prices were...

$145 9mm 1000rds or $79 per 500
$155 40S&W 1000rds or 85per 500
$132 357SIG 500rds
$215 45ACP 1000rds or 109 per 500
I know ammo prices can vary gratly across the country. ammo has to be shipped and all that fun stuff, gotta take good ol american capitalism into thought too.

I just dont see that big of a price difference going up to 40SW to me. onthe other hand step up to 45ACP and that hurts the wallet a little bit.


it would be better to hit them with a .22LR VS miss them with a 500S&W.

Quote: Originally Posted by Zapnoma

Any moving part built on anything has a tendency to wear out..

Yup. Glocks also have the fewest amount of moving parts.

[NCarolina910]

Quote: Originally Posted by not_possible

anybody had any experience with kel-tec's? i was lookin a used pf9 the other day...i almost bought it, but need to save the money and don't really know too much about kel-tec's. but a female friend of mine was with me and she wants it now. they reliable?

Can't say I'm a fan of that gun at all. I can't comment on the reliablity, but KelTec is suppose to be a good up and comming brand who is working to build a name for themselves. I was about to buy one myself, then I shot a friend's dad's 9mm KelTec and it changed my mind. I've put a few magazines worth through said 9mm KelTec and hated it. Be glad you didn't buy that gun. For cost and size, it is good. The price is right at around $300-350. If you're looking for a backup gun or maybe a second gun to carry when it's hot and you're wearing shorts I might suggest it then, but as your primary carry weapon or primary source of personal protection I wouldn't. The trigger pull is horrible and just kills the whole deal.

[not_possible]

i wasn't really looking at it for any reason i'm just a compulsive buyer, but i managed to talk myself out of it for need of saving for the glock. i just liked the fact that its so small and it was only 250ish i think. the girl that was with me wants one now, but if the trigger pull sucks i wont let her get it before tryin one out. i gotta get her to shoot a few more guns than she has before she buys one anyway.