One REAL Broken Honda

[TFisher]

Hi Guys,

I'm looking for some backwoods remedies to get a severely damaged and conveniently just out of warranty Honda through for another 1/2 year or so.

Here's the deal, my best friend bought a 2009 Honda Accord brand new, he changed the oil only according to the oil life meter and ran Castrol conventional 5W-20 and a Fram filter religiously. He shared it with his parents and they drove it pretty light, so the OLM changes worked out to about 8-10,000 miles. He brought it to me quite a lot for whatever odd thing it needed and I always noticed the oil was low and smelled like straight fuel.

The car is at 36,000 miles, it runs nice but the idle is very high, the cam is completely wiped (frosted looking, deep, uneven scores) viewed through the fill hole, I can't see the cam for the VTEC but I assume the same thing.

I decided to take the oil cap off with the engine running and exhaust gas came spewing out of the hole. The idle went down by about 200 rpm. I removed the PCV hose and it was full of oil. I then looked at the cam and it was almost completely dry, and there was a lot of coking around the baffles inside the valve cover.

It was REALLY hot under the hood so I decided to connect my scanner and the coolant temp was fine, 202 degrees, but the short term fuel trim was at -10 with the oil cap on, I didn't get a chance to check it with the oil cap off. The catalyst temperature was 1047*F.

Upon inspecting the spark plugs, they have long brown/black streaks going up the porcelain and they are badly carboned.

I performed an induction cleaning with Seafoam and the smoke wasn't white like normal, it was blue under acceleration and black when the throttle was snapped shut.

While running the motor after the induction cleaning, the check engine started blinking, the VSA light came on and the vehicle coasted to a stop with the pedal to the floor. After cycling the ignition, the VSA light went off and the CEL stopped flashing. I got back to my garage and pulled Cyl 1,3,4 misfire and random multiple misfire. No history or pending DTCs.

As you can see, this thing is pretty well FUBAR. I know that it's just going to get worse, but I want to keep it running nice for the next 6-8 months until he can trade it in.

Regards,

Thomas

P.S. The A/C also has a massive leak on the low side valve, and the power steering pump is very noisy, it accounts for most of the noise under the hood.

[2005lm7]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/08-09...item3369e5f99d

Best I can come up with lol. Sounds like it is too far gone to live 6 more mos.

[BlazerZR5]

Lol^. the only cool thing about a Honda is you can swap that out in a few hours.I did one a few weeks ago. the ****er didn't want to burp,I had to use a coolant flush machine to force all the air out! still had time to do a few brake jobs and a couple alignments too.

[tiredoltruck]

wow. that motor is messed up...

sounds like it was ran out of oil from the condition of the cam..

I don't know of anythign that might help. maybe some lucas oil stabilizer to thicken up the oil..

[1low4x4]

Damn....I'd be so pist off if I had those problems with a 2009 @ 35k! Good luck!

[TFisher]

Wow, I didn't know a motor for it could be had so cheap, I'm definitely going to see if I can talk him into that if he wants to keep the car... but is it an inherent design flaw that caused this? I just can't believe the extent of the damage at such low miles, why chance another motor if it might only be good for another 10K.

The one cam seemed to have lateral running lines in the frosting, so I think it's gonna break ... probably in the middle of the bad part of Baltimore but whatever / not my problem.

Thanks for the replies!

Regards,

Thomas

[cmandp]

From what I've heard and read about modern cars like this one that use 5w-20 is that they burn quite a bit more oil than other cars. I would never do 8,000 mile oil changes with conventional oil, probably not with synthetic either. They use this lightweight oil to improve gas mileage but what are you improving when you're burning much more oil?

[pwtr02ss]

Quote: Originally Posted by cmandp

From what I've heard and read about modern cars like this one that use 5w-20 is that they burn quite a bit more oil than other cars. I would never do 8,000 mile oil changes with conventional oil, probably not with synthetic either. They use this lightweight oil to improve gas mileage but what are you improving when you're burning much more oil?

Exactly my thought. Conventional oil will start to disappear after 5k miles rapidly. I would do the seafoam a few more times and clean the motor as best you can. Do a thicker oil in it and drive it til it quits

[gunther19820]

My Honda is POS as well. I havent had motor trouble, but I have had terrible trans issues. Mine is an 7th gen accord, and lost the trans at 101k. Honda has had multiple class action lawsuits against them for the trans in my car, the Odyssey and I think the CRV. They keep skipping on it.

And then there was a class action suit against them for the speedos- they were inacurate by about 5%. Which means the cars were putting on more mileage then actual, so the cars were going out of warranty faster.

I know none of this helps you, but your buddy isnt alone in the newer Accord woes..

[GeorgesBlazah]

There is no warranty on the car? I would have taken it back as soon as it was acting up instead of fudging with it more. Sounds more like foul play instead of a "bad" motor, but thats just me.

[BrandonR]

Bad oil pump?

[kjm762]

Honda's Powertrain warranty is 5yr/60000 miles. Get your maintenance reciepts together & go to the selling dealer. Following the OLM to change your oil is the thing here. They cannot tell, as far as I know, when the light comes on. So, the reciepts are going to be required to be dated & milage recorded. Also, don't use a Fram on a Honda. Long been an issue with cam wear, going back into the 70's.

[YellowDime]

LOL....fram filter, well thats your problem.

[YellowDime]

Follow TSB 10-033, replacement of spark plugs and PCM flash. I doubt your cam is wiped out. Stop using fram filters, and shorten your oil change intervals.

[TFisher]

Quote: Originally Posted by YellowDime

Follow TSB 10-033, replacement of spark plugs and PCM flash. I doubt your cam is wiped out. Stop using fram filters, and shorten your oil change intervals.

Problem is it's not my car, I'd have done quite a lot differently if it were mine. What can be done about all the exhaust gas pressure in the crank case?

P.S. There were no history MILs stored and none were pending. And why was the catalyst temperature so high? Could it have something to do with the PCV system forcing oil into the intake?

Regards,

Thomas

[4doorblazin]

Wow thats crazy!
If it were me i would
Run Seafoam through the crankcase to clean up anything the faulty PCV might have shoved in bad places.
Run high mileage 5w-20 oil, should keep it from burning off so easy.
Run Slick 50 high mileage engine treatment, should help baby the torn up surfaces a bit, i've seen that stuff work wonders, and would much rather use it than Lucas, personally.
And run a good quality filter, not a fan of Fram on anything!

And x2 on what YellowDime posted, follow TSB 10-033, we've had to do this on quite a few cars at work to clear up misfires.

And of course do whatever is needed to get the PCV system working properly, i would guess that is what has caused the majority of the problems. Like you said, i would bet the faulty PCV has forced enough oil through the engine that its caused the cats to be restricted a bit, causing the temps to run higher.

Just my .02!

[YellowDime]

Quote: Originally Posted by TFisher

Problem is it's not my car, I'd have done quite a lot differently if it were mine. What can be done about all the exhaust gas pressure in the crank case?

P.S. There were no history MILs stored and none were pending. And why was the catalyst temperature so high? Could it have something to do with the PCV system forcing oil into the intake?

Regards,

Thomas

Catalytic converters can operate properly from 12-1600 degrees but as the amount of pollutants go up (unburned fuel, oil, ect) so would the temp. Most catalysts start to fail around 2,000 degrees where the precious metals start to break down. You could have a restricted converter causing higher than normal crankcase pressures. With so few miles I highly doubt it, although things do happen.

Most emission warranties are being extended through government regulations up to 80,000 miles. Just because the one Honda dealer won't warranty it doesn't mean another Honda dealer will be the same.

Really though you should have the PCM updated with the latest software, and new NGK or DENSO plugs, whatever OE was for that car. No autolites, NO champions, NO bosch super quadruplemegacore plugs.