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Old 01-20-2013, 03:51 PM   #51
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Re: Mechanical Engineering or Machinist

Quote: Originally Posted by Rumblur
I'm a little older than most here, I believe.. so if wisdom comes with age, here's my take.

I'd go for the machinist job first along with welding, and then engineering if you can stand to do that much more schooling.

Here's why - around here, a welder if he's smart can knock down $25-28hr. A machinist not so much... but combo the two and you've got a very sellable skill set.

The reason I do not recommend any engineering job is - the USA is headed away from manufacturing at all. It's all gone overseas, thanks to our retarded leaders. Engineers do not need to be on-site, so the internet has made engineering positions global... and why hire you for $50k+ when I can get Haji to do it for $3.50hr ?

My dad was an electrical engineer, I watched him go from a high demand to no demand, thanks to computerization and the internet. I'm in IT, same thing.

If I had it all to do over again, I'd go into HVAC. The technology hasn't changed much in 100 years and probably won't ever. You HAVE to be on-site with it, so they cant outsource it to the asians or hindus. It pays $25-28hr, and if you work for yourself, the sky's the limit. With your mach/mech intel, I'd say you're a strong candidate for industrial HVAC, which is BIG money.

OK, there's my 2 cents.
If the USA is heading away from manufacturing and it's all going overseas, why do you recommend being a machinist/welder? Isn't that manufacturing?

The manufacturing is usually the job that is outsourced, not engineering. USA engineers design it and send it to china to be built. Look at Apple. On the back of every ipod it says, "Designed by Apple in California, made in China".
Old 01-20-2013, 04:02 PM   #52
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Re: Mechanical Engineering or Machinist

I was going for engineering but I'm thinking of switching, let me show you a statistic

30,000 Americans a year graduate with an engineering degree
70,000 Indians (India) a year with an Engineering degree, not just that, but these people are willing to work for pennies on the dollar.

I doubt you are.
Engineering is an extremely stressful plan to go into, and the gov't has been nudging people to go into engineering for years, resulting in much to many people with the degree, Contrary to popular belief there are a lot of engineers looking for work.
Old 01-20-2013, 04:06 PM   #53
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Re: Mechanical Engineering or Machinist

Quote: Originally Posted by iwillnc
I was going for engineering but I'm thinking of switching, let me show you a statistic

30,000 Americans a year graduate with an engineering degree
70,000 Indians (India) a year with an Engineering degree, not just that, but these people are willing to work for pennies on the dollar.

I doubt you are.
Engineering is an extremely stressful plan to go into, and the gov't has been nudging people to go into engineering for years, resulting in much to many people with the degree, Contrary to popular belief there are a lot of engineers looking for work.
I'm about to finish my degree in engineering, and where I'm at in Canada there are jobs galore for engineers. They make decent wages but the stress level can be through the roof. I'm considering just getting a trade once I graduate cause based on our economy, I can make way more at the moment as a tradesman. Plus, I hate being in an office, which most engineering jobs are
Old 01-20-2013, 04:11 PM   #54
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Re: Mechanical Engineering or Machinist

Yea my new mind set is a AS in science at a university, and then to power careers trade.
Old 01-20-2013, 04:24 PM   #55
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Re: Mechanical Engineering or Machinist

Quote: Originally Posted by iwillnc
I was going for engineering but I'm thinking of switching, let me show you a statistic

30,000 Americans a year graduate with an engineering degree
70,000 Indians (India) a year with an Engineering degree, not just that, but these people are willing to work for pennies on the dollar.

I doubt you are.
Engineering is an extremely stressful plan to go into, and the gov't has been nudging people to go into engineering for years, resulting in much to many people with the degree, Contrary to popular belief there are a lot of engineers looking for work.


you are rationalizing your decision with a single point of view.


indian engineer salaries are higher than they have ever been, making outsourcing companies look to china and other countries. when those countries are no longer a cost savings they will look elsewhere. Read Friedman's "The World is Flat", he says that outsourcing and offshoring is only sustainable as long as there is a cost of living differential between the countries. What is happening now is US engineers are being grouped into consulting companies and competing for the offshored work. The result is the host company does not need to provide direct employee benefits to these hundreds of heads like in the past, the consulting company provides the direct benefits, or in some cases no one does. Only repetitive and simple tasks get offshored or insourced though, like change requests and drawing creation. New product development and front end tasks remain with the company, requiring specialized and direct-hire engineers.

So if you wanted to be an engineer and do simple drawing changes for the same company your entire career, that may not be possible in this environment. Those are the guys looking for work, wanting job security and high compensation but only minimum tasks. This is the same in IT, where colleges graduate 100k guys a semester willing to work cheaper than experienced professionals doing maintenance and network admin type jobs.

If however you want to design parts and products or do critical analysis and testing, engineering is a great profession right now. Like I said, I am really happy with my choice. Its not for everyone though, engineering has "weed" classes for a reason.


I also agree 100% that manufacturing is a higher risk area than engineering for outsourcing.
Old 01-20-2013, 09:05 PM   #56
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Re: Mechanical Engineering or Machinist

Welding is next on my list, my dads been a welder for 34 years, and i love it. I too think it is a good skill to combine with being a machinist. And yea I had issues with calculus too, but mine was mostly my mindset. Id go into class every day and say to myself "I wonder what kind of useless information im going to learn today."
Old 01-21-2013, 12:52 PM   #57
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Re: Mechanical Engineering or Machinist

Quote: Originally Posted by Rumblur
The reason I do not recommend any engineering job is - the USA is headed away from manufacturing at all. It's all gone overseas, thanks to our retarded leaders. Engineers do not need to be on-site


If I had it all to do over again, I'd go into HVAC. The technology hasn't changed much in 100 years and probably won't ever.
Both of these points are wrong. Any/every commercial or industrial project that ever takes place anywhere in our country, goes through a MEP Engineering office. Any building that goes up, or any remodel, goes through an MEP office. IDK what you base this on, but Engineers do need to be on site. They do not need to be there every day, but they absolutley need to be on site.

HVAC has absolutely changed over the last 100 years, and quite dramatically. There were no VFD's 100 years ago, the were no building management systems (BMS) that controlled every aspect of the HVAC system in the building. There was no in unit fogging humidification, no on fan airflow measurement. There were no fan wall arrays. Lets not even get into OSHPD seismec certification systems, or sub slab ventilation.
The fact is, more modern building designs have begun limiting the space allowed for the MEP rooms in these buildings, so Engineers need to be smarter about their layouts and how they use the space allowed to them. And post Hurricane Sandy, things are going to change dramatically.
Old 01-22-2013, 05:00 PM   #58
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Re: Mechanical Engineering or Machinist

Quote: Originally Posted by Rumblur
I'm a little older than most here, I believe.. so if wisdom comes with age, here's my take.

I'd go for the machinist job first along with welding, and then engineering if you can stand to do that much more schooling.

Here's why - around here, a welder if he's smart can knock down $25-28hr. A machinist not so much... but combo the two and you've got a very sellable skill set.

The reason I do not recommend any engineering job is - the USA is headed away from manufacturing at all. It's all gone overseas, thanks to our retarded leaders. Engineers do not need to be on-site, so the internet has made engineering positions global... and why hire you for $50k+ when I can get Haji to do it for $3.50hr ?

My dad was an electrical engineer, I watched him go from a high demand to no demand, thanks to computerization and the internet. I'm in IT, same thing.

If I had it all to do over again, I'd go into HVAC. The technology hasn't changed much in 100 years and probably won't ever. You HAVE to be on-site with it, so they cant outsource it to the asians or hindus. It pays $25-28hr, and if you work for yourself, the sky's the limit. With your mach/mech intel, I'd say you're a strong candidate for industrial HVAC, which is BIG money.

OK, there's my 2 cents.
yup i work in electrical machine maintenance (i get to fix CNC machines and welding robots the so called machine operators AKA button pushers fudge up) i must say when a robot goes through a fence or you see someone try to drill with a tap is rather entertaining on my end - not so much on the companies end

but if i were you get the hands on floor experience and eventually get that engineering degree. that will take you farther than anybody fresh outa highschool that worked at dairy queen but got thier mech eng degree. your resume looks 1000X better.

95% of the "finding a job battle" seems to be getting the interview in the first place - the better you can make that piece of paper look the more likely you are to get called.

factory work blows. period. i dont know anyone anywhere in a factory who actually wants to go to work in the morning. you may not see it now but the old guys that have bad knees, arthritis etc and have been sitting/standing/loading the same friggin part for the last 40 years are typically grouchy as hell.

yea the base level production is getting outsourced but the headquarters and design labs/testing facilities are usually here.

i work in essentially a huge weld shop - they get shafted alot in a very dirty environment. some places only allow 5 tips/cones a month - if the operator keeps burning them up it comes out of their personal salary. some make a decent wage but not where i work. usually they are some of the first to get laid off too and with our unstable econeomy as it is its a roller coaster. (im currently in rolling layoffs, work for a few weeks then get laid off for a week or two.)

i woulda gone for engineering anyday if i knew what i know now.
Old 01-23-2013, 08:05 AM   #59
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Re: Mechanical Engineering or Machinist

Yeah, engineering all the way. I had wanted to be an engineer but I am terrible at math. I had a hard time with a calc 1, let alone calc 2, etc. I ended up with a degree in English and one in Journalism due to my magazine stuff I was doing but the bottom fell out of the market, so I am now an insurance adjuster lol, which I also enjoy. As much as I would have loved to be an engineer, I know that it would have taken me 10yrs to pass all of the math as I would have had to take, and retake most of the classes to get through lol.
Old 01-24-2013, 09:06 PM   #60
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Re: Mechanical Engineering or Machinist

The math DOES end. I think there were 27 cr hours of direct math, enough to earn a minor.

Of course the core classes are just math classes in disguise. Haha


Truthfully though learning physics is amazing, and having the math toolbox to figure anything out is pretty cool. I like the statement above that engineers work hard for 4 years, it's true, your job isn't based on production numbers or waiting to get promoted, and if you don't like it you just go get a different job, lots of engineer careers.
Old 01-26-2013, 11:12 AM   #61
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Re: Mechanical Engineering or Machinist

^ What he says is true. While the math classes do end, you will still use math in every course you take until the end. But the good thing is, is that it is mostly algebra along with the basics you learn in calculus or differential equations. And for most of that, you are allowed to use your calculator to handle it. And after all the years of having math drilled into my head, I actually prefer classed based in math.
Old 01-26-2013, 11:29 AM   #62
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Re: Mechanical Engineering or Machinist

Ya the classes might not actually be called math anymore, but they are mostly all math anyway. I'm in my last semester and one class is particularly calculus like again. Just started using Laplace equation again, which is a three dimensional partial equation to describe the flow of groundwater. Real fun stuff.
Old 01-26-2013, 09:43 PM   #63
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Re: Mechanical Engineering or Machinist

It's funny that I was able to handle all this math the last 4 years, and I'm now in my last semester taking statistics and am totally lost. haha
Old 01-27-2013, 11:02 AM   #64
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Re: Mechanical Engineering or Machinist

Math has never been my family's strong point and unfortunately my grade and high school were behind in math as well. I am envious of those that can do it though lol.
Old 01-27-2013, 09:09 PM   #65
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Re: Mechanical Engineering or Machinist

me im weird when it comes to math, geometry, trig, calculus (up until the algebra part) i understand and can ace a class but gimme algebra and im like stumbling along... i dont know what it is with algebra (like i understand the basic stuff easily it just gets confusing for me the more advanced it gets) main reason why i was afraid of engineering cuz i suck at algebra.
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