* Liquid Nitrogen Cooling! * - S-10 Forum
 
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post #1 of 31 Old 01-05-2008, 11:22 AM Thread Starter
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* Liquid Nitrogen Cooling! *

I was sitting at work yesterday thinking about the Liquid nitrogen we use at work.

If many of you have no clue what I am talking about here is a brief description,

"Liquid nitrogen (liquid density at the triple point is 0.807 g/mL) is the liquid produced industrially in large quantities by fractional distillation of liquid air and is often referred to by the abbreviation, LN2. It is pure nitrogen, in a liquid state.

Liquid nitrogen boils at −196 °C (−321 °F), and is a cryogenic fluid which is potentially capable of causing rapid frostbite on contact with living tissue. When appropriately insulated from ambient heat, liquid nitrogen can be stored and transported, for example in vacuum flasks. Here, the very low temperature is held constant at -196 °C by slow boiling of the liquid, resulting in the evolution of nitrogen gas. Depending on the size and design the holding time of vacuum flasks ranges from a few hours to a few weeks.

Liquid nitrogen can easily be converted to the solid by placing it in a vacuum chamber pumped by a rotary vacuum pump.[1] Liquid nitrogen freezes at −210 °C (−346 °F). Despite its reputation, liquid nitrogen's efficiency as a coolant is reduced by the fact that it boils immediately on contact with warmer object, enveloping it in insulating nitrogen gas. This effect is known as the Leidenfrost effect and applies to any liquid in contact with an object significantly hotter than its boiling point. More rapid cooling may be obtained by plunging an object into slush of liquid and solid nitrogen, than into liquid nitrogen alone. That said, liquid nitrogen alone is sufficient for most applications."

We use the larger 45 gal tanks at work they look like this,



Left side of pic.


When pushed through atomizing nozzles at high pressure it will combine with air and suck all of the available heat from it. This make an incredibly efficient air conditioner.

Also LN will expand about 790:1 so a 45 gal tank of LN will produce 35,550 gal of Nitrogen that is supper cold.

Ok so we know that if jets are installed in the plenum of a household air conditioning system it would cool your house all summer. No problem there,.

So what about cost? Well LN local in 45 gal tanks costs only $50 and to cool my house all summer for $50 I am so for that!

Here is the best part,

Combine you nitrogen cooling system with a Gifford-McMahon/Joule-Thomson Refrigerator



In the winter you house will be freezing and you need heat right?

What happens when you compress gas? It gets hot! so what if you needed to extract all the heat from 35,000gal of nitrogen? You get allot of heat.

When done through the GM refrigeration system you continuously expand and re compress the gas to cool it to only a few k the heat produced is similar to the heat on the back of your refrigerator but multiplied by many 1,000's this heat will heat your house all winter as you slowly make 45 gal of liquid nitrogen. That you can now use to cool your house in the summer.

How cool is that?

If you live in a place that is mostly cold like up north you can sell your excess liquid nitrogen to someone down south who is always hot so they can cool there house.

So up north not only can you heat your house you can make money as well!

and down south you will get a much much cheaper product and a very simple cooling system.


Think of this as a huge thermal battery!

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post #2 of 31 Old 01-05-2008, 11:35 AM
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Re: * Liquid Nitrogen Cooling! *

What kinda energy is required to compress the gas, tho? and where would you store all the vaporized nitrogen? Sounds to me like you'd need an entire basement-sized tank for the system to work effectively.

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post #3 of 31 Old 01-05-2008, 11:37 AM
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Re: * Liquid Nitrogen Cooling! *

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I

When pushed through atomizing nozzles at high pressure it will combine with air and suck all of the available heat from it. This make an incredibly efficient air conditioner.

one problem i see at pushing LN through atomizing nozzles would be the contraction of the nozzles because of the extreme cold. . .those holes on an atomizer are extremely small. . .with the rapid chilling and warming of an air conditioning unit, causing rapid expansion and contraction, i would imagine the lifespan of those nozzles would be very limited
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post #4 of 31 Old 01-05-2008, 11:39 AM Thread Starter
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Re: * Liquid Nitrogen Cooling! *

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What kinda energy is required to compress the gas, tho? and where would you store all the vaporized nitrogen? Sounds to me like you'd need an entire basement-sized tank for the system to work effectively.
If done on a 4 month scale for 45 gal all it would take is a single 120V plug and about 5~8amps. off and on. and a single LN tank about 2.5 feet diameter and 4.5 feet tall. the refrigerator is only 3 feet tall and 1 foot diameter.

No need to store the nitrogen gas the atmosphere does that very well already

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post #5 of 31 Old 01-05-2008, 11:40 AM Thread Starter
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Re: * Liquid Nitrogen Cooling! *

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one problem i see at pushing LN through atomizing nozzles would be the contraction of the nozzles because of the extreme cold. . .those holes on an atomizer are extremely small. . .with the rapid chilling and warming of an air conditioning unit, causing rapid expansion and contraction, i would imagine the lifespan of those nozzles would be very limited
For normal water atomizing nozzles yes.

We use liquid nitrogen nozzles at work in our foggers and they have lasted almost 14 years now

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post #6 of 31 Old 01-05-2008, 11:40 AM
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Re: * Liquid Nitrogen Cooling! *

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If done on a 4 month scale for 45 gal all it would take is a single 120V plug and about 5~8amps. off and on. and a single LN tank about 2.5 feet diameter and 4.5 feet tall. the refrigerator is only 3 feet tall and 1 foot diameter.

No need to store the nitrogen gas the atmosphere does that very well already
Oh, so it would just be vented to the atmosphere, gotcha.....
Hmmm, I think I'd still rather trust a corn furnace.

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post #7 of 31 Old 01-05-2008, 11:41 AM Thread Starter
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Re: * Liquid Nitrogen Cooling! *

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Oh, so it would just be vented to the atmosphere, gotcha.....
Hmmm, I think I'd still rather trust a corn furnace.
lol

I am also in the works of a Grass pellet stove to heat the house. simply harvest your fuel from your lawn all summer and burn it in the winter lol (same btu as wood)

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post #8 of 31 Old 01-05-2008, 11:42 AM
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Re: * Liquid Nitrogen Cooling! *

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lol

I am also in the works of a Grass pellet stove to heat the house. simply harvest your fuel from your lawn all summer and burn it in the winter lol (same btu as wood)
Heh, but you presume northern climates get enough rain and growing season to actually require the lawn to be mowed.... Last year, i had to mow twice.

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post #9 of 31 Old 01-05-2008, 11:44 AM Thread Starter
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Re: * Liquid Nitrogen Cooling! *

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Heh, but you presume northern climates get enough rain and growing season to actually require the lawn to be mowed.... Last year, i had to mow twice.
Here in Pittsburgh I have to mow almost every 2 weeks lol

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post #10 of 31 Old 01-05-2008, 11:44 AM
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Re: * Liquid Nitrogen Cooling! *

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Here in Pittsburgh I have to mow almost every 2 weeks lol
pwnt. lol

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post #11 of 31 Old 01-05-2008, 12:20 PM
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Re: * Liquid Nitrogen Cooling! *

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Here in Pittsburgh I have to mow almost every 2 weeks lol
We have to mow EVERY week in Florida.. Which is good, cause that's how we make our money anyways. lol
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post #12 of 31 Old 01-05-2008, 12:56 PM
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Re: * Liquid Nitrogen Cooling! *

What happens with the dog, or rat wants to take a bite out of the lines?

What would happen if the tank got shot with a gun?

Seems like that would be instable. Dunno y, just does.
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post #13 of 31 Old 01-05-2008, 12:58 PM
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Re: * Liquid Nitrogen Cooling! *

no a bad idea, if i understand it right. im pretty sick right now so maybe im wrong here...

what your saying is in the winter, use a compressor to make LN becausae the heat used to make it will heat the house, then in the summer use the LN you made/stored all winter to cool the house?

sounds like a solid idea, but how much does the GM refrigeration system cost to begin with?

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Re: * Liquid Nitrogen Cooling! *

neat idea

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Re: * Liquid Nitrogen Cooling! *

hmmmmm very interesting.....
has this never been thought of before?
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post #16 of 31 Old 01-05-2008, 01:22 PM Thread Starter
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Re: * Liquid Nitrogen Cooling! *

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no a bad idea, if i understand it right. im pretty sick right now so maybe im wrong here...

what your saying is in the winter, use a compressor to make LN becausae the heat used to make it will heat the house, then in the summer use the LN you made/stored all winter to cool the house?

sounds like a solid idea, but how much does the GM refrigeration system cost to begin with?
Bingo,

The GM system can be made in house.

As per the safe comment it is the same as your AC system you have now

.. Just sightly higher pressure lol AC is around 250PSI LN is 300PSI

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post #17 of 31 Old 01-05-2008, 01:24 PM
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Re: * Liquid Nitrogen Cooling! *

no kidding?! thats sweet.... man, i said it before and i'll say it again. your from pittsburg, im from cumberland area just south of you... i wanna meet up with you sometime, you have some crazy smart ideas!!

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Re: * Liquid Nitrogen Cooling! *

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no kidding?! thats sweet.... man, i said it before and i'll say it again. your from pittsburgh, im from cumberland area just south of you... i wanna meet up with you sometime, you have some crazy smart ideas!!

fixed. pittsburg i think is in kansas.. or a state that way!

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Re: * Liquid Nitrogen Cooling! *

If everyone did this wouldn't the cost of ln2 skyrocket? Could it be mass produced in large enough quantities to be a replacement for most heating and air systems? I can't see compressing the gas to make heat a reasonable idea, think of the BTUs of a natural gas furnace(don't know off the top of my head) and compare how much gas would have to be compressed, it would be too high. Just my 2 1/2 cents.

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post #20 of 31 Old 01-05-2008, 02:37 PM Thread Starter
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Re: * Liquid Nitrogen Cooling! *

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If everyone did this wouldn't the cost of ln2 skyrocket? Could it be mass produced in large enough quantities to be a replacement for most heating and air systems? I can't see compressing the gas to make heat a reasonable idea, think of the BTUs of a natural gas furnace(don't know off the top of my head) and compare how much gas would have to be compressed, it would be too high. Just my 2 1/2 cents.
If it is enough to cool the house then it will produce enough heat let alone efficiency so the heat of the motor and compressor will also add to it.

Again this is a problem for someone who deals with thermal dynamics!

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Re: * Liquid Nitrogen Cooling! *

The problem with LN is that is tends to leak.

I work on an LNG plant and when were not pumping Liquid Natural Gas thru pipes,we pump Liquid Nitrogen thru instead... we have large tanker trucks deliver Liquid Nitrogen.(Air Products) The trucks have purge nossils or leaks in the back, so they are always leaking LN....

And from what i've seen, they've been chasing leaks around in our plant forever.....and they always have to purge it for some reason......


Correct me if im wrong, but I dont believe you can just use LN to run an A/C unit. Because where there is LN, there is TONS of frozen LN and gas coming out of the coils.
(i believe THATS the main reason they dont make them or use them for A/C)


Because we use LN to run thru pipe systems so they dont rot out and to keep normal temperature, and when the trucks load all the LN into the pipe system, there is a extremely large coil or radiator looking vent.......and theres TONS of frozen chunks of LN and tons of fog/gas coming out of it......


I dont think you can just make a LN cooled A/C unit, because of the venting/purging factor on LN.(it seems like it constantly has to be leaking)

I dont think you can make a prefectly clean self contained unit.
LN is tooo messy to deal with.

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Re: * Liquid Nitrogen Cooling! *

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The problem with LN is that is tends to leak.

I work on an LNG plant and when were not pumping Liquid Natural Gas thru pipes,we pump Liquid Nitrogen thru instead... we have large tanker trucks deliver Liquid Nitrogen.(Air Products) The trucks have purge nossils or leaks in the back, so they are always leaking LN....

And from what i've seen, they've been chasing leaks around in our plant forever.....and they always have to purge it for some reason......


Correct me if im wrong, but I dont believe you can just use LN to run an A/C unit. Because where there is LN, there is TONS of frozen LN and gas coming out of the coils.
(i believe THATS the main reason they dont make them or use them for A/C)


Because we use LN to run thru pipe systems so they dont rot out and to keep normal temperature, and when the trucks load all the LN into the pipe system, there is a extremely large coil or radiator looking vent.......and theres TONS of frozen chunks of LN and tons of fog/gas coming out of it......


I dont think you can just make a LN cooled A/C unit, because of the venting/purging factor on LN.(it seems like it constantly has to be leaking)

I dont think you can make a prefectly clean self contained unit.
LN is tooo messy to deal with.
the way it sounds there is hardley any piping, it is just sprayed into the air that gets pumped into the house since its non toxic

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post #24 of 31 Old 01-06-2008, 01:58 AM Thread Starter
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Re: * Liquid Nitrogen Cooling! *

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the way it sounds there is hardley any piping, it is just sprayed into the air that gets pumped into the house since its non toxic

Correct,

LN has to purge at 350+ PSI becuae the vessle it is in can not handle the higher pressure gas nitrogen as it boils off.

I will run the vents into the AC system as well.

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post #25 of 31 Old 01-06-2008, 11:10 AM
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Re: * Liquid Nitrogen Cooling! *

Correct me if Im wrong, but wouldn't venting all of the extra nitrogen into the a/c vents deplete the available oxygen in the air of the house, depending on the amount of nitrogen vented. I understand that nitrogen is completely non-toxic by itself. Its the risk of the loss of oxygen in the air that could cause problems with air quality in the house itself.

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post #26 of 31 Old 01-06-2008, 11:39 AM
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Re: * Liquid Nitrogen Cooling! *

You build one of these and I'll put it in my shop and test it out for ya


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Re: * Liquid Nitrogen Cooling! *

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Correct me if Im wrong, but wouldn't venting all of the extra nitrogen into the a/c vents deplete the available oxygen in the air of the house, depending on the amount of nitrogen vented. I understand that nitrogen is completely non-toxic by itself. Its the risk of the loss of oxygen in the air that could cause problems with air quality in the house itself.
none of the houses ive ever lived in are sealed that well, and if they were sealed that well, the pressure would rise, rather than the oxygen only escaping.
so no, unless the whole tank leaked out at once i dont see that problem.
ln tanks vent in the hallways of the labs at college all the time... at least i think those are ln tanks
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post #28 of 31 Old 01-06-2008, 01:58 PM
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Re: * Liquid Nitrogen Cooling! *

Quote:
Originally Posted by 91sdime View Post
Correct me if Im wrong, but wouldn't venting all of the extra nitrogen into the a/c vents deplete the available oxygen in the air of the house, depending on the amount of nitrogen vented. I understand that nitrogen is completely non-toxic by itself. Its the risk of the loss of oxygen in the air that could cause problems with air quality in the house itself.
the only part i see being a problem is that N2 is heavier than O2 so the house might just fill up with the N2

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post #29 of 31 Old 01-06-2008, 03:29 PM
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Re: * Liquid Nitrogen Cooling! *

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Originally Posted by old_skool_noma View Post
the only part i see being a problem is that N2 is heavier than O2 so the house might just fill up with the N2
so how much of regular air did nitrogen consist of again?
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post #30 of 31 Old 05-28-2008, 10:19 PM Thread Starter
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Re: * Liquid Nitrogen Cooling! *

Found a better way,

Install a large version of this,



Will be more efficient.

The opinions and views expressed in the above post are the intellectual property of DJDAudio. The above mentioned information shall also hold no legal binding against Doug DeHaven in the court of law.

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post #31 of 31 Old 05-28-2008, 10:29 PM
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Re: * Liquid Nitrogen Cooling! *

your gifted with a crazy mind lol

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