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AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL


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Old 08-25-2008, 11:56 AM   2 links from elsewhere to this Post. Click to view. #351
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

See this is why all good companys record every call that comes in... this way you can review the call to make sure it's handled correctly.
Old 08-25-2008, 12:52 PM   #352
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

Ya, I've resent him the email now, 4 times I believe....he fails lol
Old 08-25-2008, 02:09 PM   #353
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

lol
Old 08-25-2008, 02:33 PM   #354
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

well guys to be honest with you im impressed with AIM/chassis tech

i emailed joe about the 2.2 edc bracket and told him my concerns from reading about poor fitment and some people having to modify it and i got a reply quickly from him telling me he would check on the fitment and then another employee replied saying they have a 98+ 2.2 that he will fit the bracket on and take pics for me.
Old 08-25-2008, 03:42 PM   #355
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

I read on SSM,where one guy said he went to SEMA, and stopped by the AIM Booth, and asked a simple question, and was asked/TOLD by Mr.Joe M. himself, to leave the booth.... wow, real mature, professional way to deal with the situation. All the guy did was pay them a compliment, and ask a simple question. Here's what he supposedly said/asked... "Hey, your products look really nice... why do the actual products, people receive look so much different?"
Old 08-25-2008, 03:49 PM   #356
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

From Kris in the SSM thread:

Hey man, AIM has backed down. actually they apologized... but i'm still a little bent about it all, so i'm leaving it up for a while... Big business needs to realize that they can't **** with minitruckers any more!!!


Kris Bloom
SSM Founder/Webmaster
Old 08-25-2008, 03:55 PM   #357
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

Sweet.... the battle has been won, but the war is FAR from over!
Old 08-25-2008, 04:07 PM   #358
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

oh hey, looks like it got interesting in here
Old 08-25-2008, 04:46 PM   #359
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

Old business adage:

"If a person has a good experience, they'll tell 1 person. If they have a BAD experience, they'll tell 100!"
Old 08-25-2008, 04:51 PM   #360
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

Quote: Originally Posted by kevdog
Old business adage:

"If a person has a good experience, they'll tell 1 person. If they have a BAD experience, they'll tell 100!"
That is 100% TRUE! That is something we are always talking about here at AVS.
Old 08-25-2008, 04:55 PM   #361
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

Quote: Originally Posted by AVS_KRIS
That is 100% TRUE! That is something we are always talking about here at AVS.
I know my customer service, did it for 5 years.
Old 08-25-2008, 05:32 PM   #362
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

Quote: Originally Posted by kevdog
Old business adage:

"If a person has a good experience, they'll tell 1 person. If they have a BAD experience, they'll tell 100!"

This is the reason alot of shops/stores do what they can to make right with the customers whenever possible.

Word spreads like wildfire on these forums, and they go much further than just these forums it hits everything on the internet i swear.
Old 08-25-2008, 05:42 PM   #363
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

Quote: Originally Posted by kevdog
Old business adage:

"If a person has a good experience, they'll tell 1 person. If they have a BAD experience, they'll tell 100!"
werd
Old 08-25-2008, 05:46 PM   #364
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

site is up for now. I am working on a few things to get it a little nicer.
Old 08-25-2008, 06:04 PM   #365
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

Quote: Originally Posted by kevdog
Old business adage:

"If a person has a good experience, they'll tell 1 person. If they have a BAD experience, they'll tell 100!"

AMEN
Old 08-25-2008, 06:40 PM   #366
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

you know hes mad at the idiots like some of you that say shit thats not true. Just look at any hate topic on here and theres plenty thats not true. he lageally can sue any one of you for that. Its a lost cause though because he will lose more customers even if he wins. thats basically what I told him. I will post the emails to and from me, him and kris on my site.

You guys can say what you want about me, Im tired of trying to come into forums and get you guys that say shit to bring some facts. Im sending parts out for old orders, paying people back and Ill let the parts speak for me. thats all I can do.

heres the link to the page on my site with the emails. Forgive the plain page style. I justb put it together in html in about 10 minutes.

www.dallashotrodparts.com/emailssm.html

feel free to comment here or at xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Old 08-25-2008, 06:53 PM   #367
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

^^might wanna try your site again, HTTP 404 Not Found The webpage cannot be found
Old 08-25-2008, 06:53 PM   #368
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

Quote: Originally Posted by DHPmike
you know hes mad at the idiots like some of you that say shit thats not true. Just look at any hate topic on here and theres plenty thats not true. he lageally can sue any one of you for that. Its a lost cause though because he will lose more customers even if he wins. thats basically what I told him. I will post the emails to and from me, him and kris on my site.

You guys can say what you want about me, Im tired of trying to come into forums and get you guys that say shit to bring some facts. Im sending parts out for old orders, paying people back and Ill let the parts speak for me. thats all I can do.

heres the link to the page on my site with the emails. Forgive the plain page style. I justb put it together in html in about 10 minutes.

www.dallashotrodparts.com/emailssm.html

feel free to comment here or at xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Link doesnt work dude....and I never did receive my call tag or replacement arms from you but its cool...I sold the truck awhile ago
Old 08-25-2008, 06:55 PM   #369
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

Quote: Originally Posted by AVS_KRIS
Link doesnt work dude....and I never did receive my call tag or replacement arms from you but its cool...I sold the truck awhile ago

http://www.dallashotrodparts.com/ssm.html

i went to his site and got that link and it does work off his site.
Old 08-25-2008, 06:56 PM   #370
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

Funny.

404 Not Found
The requested URL /emailssm.html does not exist.

Interesting that you will say that there are people on here that say shit that is not true. Care to point it out? Since YOU are claiming this you can surely point out the fallacies that people are supposedly making in here.

It is also interesting that you of all people are who he is "getting advice" from. But I digress. I have read what you have done and have not done. That is not the topic of this thread or the others that are involving AIM. Facts are facts and what is sad is that it took this long for what you were involved with to even begin to be corrected.

Bad business practice is just that bad business practice. Whether you try to rectify it 1 year, 2 years, 4 years or 10 years down the road you have still focked over people and that will hang over your head. I will also say this. If you were such a good businessman and were not worried about your reputation why did you put in a request to change your name on here? Why did you change your business name? If your reputation was that good then you should not have had any worries and would not have needed to change any of them or worry about getting on a forum.


A good businessman....nevermind as I am speaking to the wall now. I know how to run a business, some people just need to get the basics down.

As someone else has said in here...

Quote:
Old business adage:

"If a person has a good experience, they'll tell 1 person. If they have a BAD experience, they'll tell 100!"
Trying to suck up (yes that is my opinion and how I see it) later only tells me that poor business ethics have not changed.
Old 08-25-2008, 07:30 PM   #371
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

Quote: Originally Posted by DHPmike
you know hes mad at the idiots like some of you that say shit thats not true. Just look at any hate topic on here and theres plenty thats not true. he lageally can sue any one of you for that. Its a lost cause though because he will lose more customers even if he wins. thats basically what I told him. I will post the emails to and from me, him and kris on my site.

You guys can say what you want about me, Im tired of trying to come into forums and get you guys that say shit to bring some facts. Im sending parts out for old orders, paying people back and Ill let the parts speak for me. thats all I can do.

heres the link to the page on my site with the emails. Forgive the plain page style. I justb put it together in html in about 10 minutes.

www.dallashotrodparts.com/emailssm.html

feel free to comment here or at xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx




You havent learned a god damn thing about business. Whether or not you have a justifiable reason, you DO NOT go on a public forum and start calling people idiots. Even if they deserve it. A smart business man would never do that. You have no business running a business. Please stop polluting s10forum with your bullshit.
Old 08-25-2008, 07:51 PM   #372
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

Quote: Originally Posted by cruisinlows10
You havent learned a god damn thing about business. Whether or not you have a justifiable reason, you DO NOT go on a public forum and start calling people idiots. Even if they deserve it. A smart business man would never do that. You have no business running a business. Please stop polluting s10forum with your bullshit.
Bingo, you never see Jason from SD.com or Kris from AVS doing that shit!
Old 08-25-2008, 07:55 PM   #373
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

Why did it take this long to start rectifying anything?.... why not just nip the problem in the bud, and atleast try to prevent all of this?... it makes no sense.
Old 08-25-2008, 08:50 PM   #374
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

Quote: Originally Posted by DHPmike

You guys can say what you want about me



you stole my friends money, and even if you pay it back it will be worth LESS than he paid you because of the time value of money. Call a bank, tell them you want to borrow 450 dollars with no payment and no interest for 4 years. What a ****ing tool you are. You and joe deserve each other because you see your customers exactly the same way, as giant stupid blobs of multiple ears and anuses that you can just keep lying to and screwing and lying to and screwing.

I met you at Slamboree in 2000, you were a total dickbag to my friend who asked about your truck. You arent a minitrucker, you are a self serving liar who thinks his personal problems matter a squirt to his customers. The guy who fixes my car could be a serial killer, I have no idea because I pay him to FIX MY CAR, and as long as he does a good job and gets it done I am happy. people paid you to make them parts and not cry about child support this or costs of that. Save your juicing vagina squishing about personal problems and how business just got away from you for someone who gives a ****. You are a liar, a cheat, and a theif.

I dont give a rats ass if I get banned for bashing on you.
Old 08-25-2008, 08:51 PM   #375
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

Quote: Originally Posted by joedoh
you stole my friends money, and even if you pay it back it will be worth LESS than he paid you because of the time value of money. Call a bank, tell them you want to borrow 450 dollars with no payment and no interest for 4 years. What a ****ing tool you are. You and joe deserve each other because you see your customers exactly the same way, as giant stupid blobs of multiple ears and anuses that you can just keep lying to and screwing and lying to and screwing.

I met you at Slamboree in 2000, you were a total dickbag to my friend who asked about your truck. You arent a minitrucker, you are a self serving liar who thinks his personal problems matter a squirt to his customers. The guy who fixes my car could be a serial killer, I have no idea because I pay him to FIX MY CAR, and as long as he does a good job and gets it done I am happy. people paid you to make them parts and not cry about child support this or costs of that. Save your juicing vagina squishing about personal problems and how business just got away from you for someone who gives a ****. You are a liar, a cheat, and a theif.

I dont give a rats ass if I get banned for bashing on you.
Awww, you're such a nice guy.....
Old 08-25-2008, 09:04 PM   #376
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

Quote: Originally Posted by dngrous_dime
Awww, you're such a nice guy.....
your avatar is rediculous!!!!


lol
Old 08-25-2008, 09:14 PM   #377
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

you have no clue about me or anything else but coming in here to talk crap about rumors and crap you heard from someone else.

I changed the name because I could no longer get the domain name I had. I changed the shop name but on my site it says its the same place, I never tried to hide it so you have NO valid argument.

My personal problems are a big deal when it comes to my business because they affect it, so you have no valid argument there.

I could have filed bankruptcy and didnt, so no matter how long it takes I am making it right. many of the biggest names in business are on their 3rd or 4th business after going bankrupt. The right thing to do is make it right no matter how long it takes so no valid argument there.

the time versus what the parts are worth, the parts cost alot more these days due to the high cost of materials. Steel has tripled in price. Plus the parts Im making now are far better quality so they are worth more so no valid argumet there.

You dont see Jason or Kris doing that because people are not saying things about him that are not true. That has nothing to do with business. Thats personal and I will do whatever it takes to repond to that. You going to let someone talk lies about your business and not do anything about it??? I doubt anyone will answer that. not truthfully anyway


you ask where the lies are? just pull up any BYC forum and you will see people saying I owed hundreds of people, I NEVER owed more than 25 people anything from the smallest bushing to a set of arms. thats just one of the things said so no valid argument there.

Most of it is small parts. most parts orders are for either uppers or lowers, not both.

Kris, if you read my site you will see I have not finished any of the new DHP S-10 arms ready to ship. I will not EVER again send anything until its tested and ready. You have parts you need replaced please make sure I have all your info. If you sold the truck, tell that guy. He will get new parts. so no valid argument there.


Im done arguing with you people who never met me and never have bought anything from me. just keep posting whatever you wish. the new parts speak for themselves.


I changed the tag for the html on the page, it now works fine.
Old 08-25-2008, 09:22 PM   #378
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

You stole money from Ryan Scheffler. I believe you have him listed as RYAN S on your maybe payback in a million years at 50 bucks a month. I am aware of every lie you told him on the phone. "I have the arms in stock". "I am standing next to your arms". "Here is a tracking number". I have a first hand opinion of you as a jackass having met you, just like I have first hand experience getting screwed by AIM. I dont need to make anything up, the truth is stranger than fiction.

Lying ass.
Old 08-25-2008, 09:55 PM   #379
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

First off

I was the ASSHOLE that decided to allow you to change your name.

Second,

I was the dickhead that made that change on my god damned site.

Choose your battles wisely old man.


Quote: Originally Posted by DHPmike
you have no clue about me or anything else but coming in here to talk crap about rumors and crap you heard from someone else.
No, I have much information on you and what you have done as I have followed the threads on this site and have even had several of those that were ripped off by you, yes ripped off is the right words for this, in the past.

Quote: Originally Posted by DHPmike
I changed the name because I could no longer get the domain name I had.
You changed a business name because of a domain name? Please. That is a sad excuse to come forth with.



Quote: Originally Posted by DHPmike
I changed the shop name but on my site it says its the same place, I never tried to hide it so you have NO valid argument.
Then you will not have an issue for me to rechange your name back to the crap it was before than will you?

You have nothing to hide do you.

Quote: Originally Posted by DHPmike
My personal problems are a big deal when it comes to my business because they affect it, so you have no valid argument there.
And this is your downfall. Nothing more needs to be said.

Quote: Originally Posted by DHPmike
I could have filed bankruptcy and didnt, so no matter how long it takes I am making it right. many of the biggest names in business are on their 3rd or 4th business after going bankrupt. The right thing to do is make it right no matter how long it takes so no valid argument there.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA

Clearly they did not know how to properly run a business if they failed multiple times. BUT that is not the argument at hand. The real discussion here is that you ran away from your responsibilities, be it personal issues that drove it or your failure as a business person, yes failure because you just admit you did just that.

Quote: Originally Posted by DHPmike
the time versus what the parts are worth, the parts cost alot more these days due to the high cost of materials. Steel has tripled in price. Plus the parts Im making now are far better quality so they are worth more so no valid argumet there.
Well, considering many did not get parts originally there is going to be a tough comparison between your past products and current products.

Just because you are paying more for the bits does not make it better quality. I can pay 3000 for crappy rotors and calipers and take the same 3k and buy some Mov'it Brakes and get a far better product. Just because you pay a certain price does not make it better.

Same with costs of material. You can be paying 500 for a sheet of 6061 today when you bought a sheet of mill spec 8625 type 3 w/ Teflon for $100 1 year ago. That does not mean it is better. It just means you spent more money for the materials and nothing more.


Care to continue with this line of thinking?

Quote: Originally Posted by DHPmike
You dont see Jason or Kris doing that because people are not saying things about him that are not true.
Jason and Kris both had people talk crap about them and failures of parts they had. Both have occurred on this forum. I suggest you look it up. Unlike you they approached the whole matter differently. We had nothing to do with any of it and allowed them their room to talk and resolve the matters. You on the other hand went the wrong way aggressively, but that was your idea of how to handle it....not theirs.

Quote: Originally Posted by DHPmike
That has nothing to do with business. Thats personal and I will do whatever it takes to repond to that.
And the way you handled it and are handling it clearly shows why you went "out of business" and they have not.

Quote: Originally Posted by DHPmike
You going to let someone talk lies about your business and not do anything about it??? I doubt anyone will answer that. not truthfully anyway
People talk shit all the time. This site and the way I run it and the way I have run it comes up all the time. I have many competitors and they talk shit all the time. Do I care? It bugs me, but I do not go on and on about how everyone is lying or doing this and that, talking shit about it, posting on other sites how everyone is out to get me or coming up with excuses. I deal with it and I let it go.

I also have a very prosperous export business in the APAC region. Completely different from what you deal with and on a larger scale in terms of sales. People talk crap, so what? I admit it bugs me, but I am adult enough to realize that throwing a tantrum on a forum or in a magazine accomplishes nothing but making you look more pathetic in the whole matter.

Quote: Originally Posted by DHPmike
you ask where the lies are? just pull up any BYC forum and you will see people saying I owed hundreds of people, I NEVER owed more than 25 people anything from the smallest bushing to a set of arms. thats just one of the things said so no valid argument there.
Who cares if it was 22 or 200. You can not win a suit over something as pathetically mundane in a discussion. You say you could have won. Well here you go.

I say you still owe over 100 people. Now sue me.

I want to hear your lawyer state that this is libel, slander or the likes. Take me to court. I will be waiting.

Quote: Originally Posted by DHPmike
Most of it is small parts. most parts orders are for either uppers or lowers, not both.
Facts are you still owe people after 4 years. You trying to "rectify" the situation now with building what they wanted 4 years ago is not a valid way to approach it....but again, a person with a little business knowledge would have resolved this a little quicker.

Quote: Originally Posted by DHPmike
Kris, if you read my site you will see I have not finished any of the new DHP S-10 arms ready to ship. I will not EVER again send anything until its tested and ready. You have parts you need replaced please make sure I have all your info. If you sold the truck, tell that guy. He will get new parts. so no valid argument there.


Quote: Originally Posted by DHPmike
Im done arguing with you people who never met me and never have bought anything from me. just keep posting whatever you wish. the new parts speak for themselves.
Coward. That is the role you are going to play now? Then how about this. You are no longer welcome on this site as you have proven yourself to be a thief with your past. That is clearly stated with you never refunding those "22" "2x" people you stole money from. Coming on here pretending you are refunding their money and you are such a great guy for doing it is nothing but your own failure of an ego boost. I suggest you go back to your little hole in the wall and figure up some more excuses.

Toodles small minded one. If you wish to carry on with this then you can contact me and I may allow you to post a reply. Then again I may not as you have clearly shown how you do not and have not cared about how you treat your customers on this site.

John
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Old 08-25-2008, 09:59 PM   #380
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

Enjoy your old user name on here. You can contact me via email at the contact link below if you wish to think you are going to participate on here again.

BTW. I will be awaiting that summons from your attorney for the "slander", "libel" and "defamation of character" suit you said you could pull on others.
Old 08-25-2008, 10:04 PM   #381
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

i love when john picks apart post and does that...lol
Old 08-25-2008, 10:05 PM   #382
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

geezz some people just forget who not to talk crap to.. nice job Lunatic
Old 08-25-2008, 10:05 PM   #383
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

Quote: Originally Posted by orangesonoma
i love when john picks apart post and does that...lol


x2.............
Old 08-25-2008, 10:07 PM   #384
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

Quote: Originally Posted by orangesonoma
i love when john picks apart post and does that...lol
WTF is that in your avatar???? I thought that thing was an urban minitrucker legend....
Old 08-25-2008, 10:17 PM   #385
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

I think every new minitrucker coming into the scene, should read this ENTIRE thread, before buying ANYTHING from ANYONE!
Old 08-25-2008, 10:22 PM   #386
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

Quote: Originally Posted by orangesonoma
i love when john picks apart post and does that...lol


No shit!
Old 08-25-2008, 11:05 PM   #387
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

I<3Lunatic.
Old 08-25-2008, 11:07 PM   #388
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

lol at Kris not having an argument for her arms b/c he'll "send" the new owner the promised parts. I was simply amazed at that statement. How the hell does sending someone else something she paid for rectify that situation?
Old 08-26-2008, 01:43 AM   #389
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

This just keeps getting better
Old 08-26-2008, 02:09 AM   #390
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

wow, Ive heard better arguments out of kids, before they started school.
Youve screwed many people and have been called out on it.
John schooled you big time, let it go and save face.

wheres the popcorn smiley?
Old 08-26-2008, 02:35 AM   #391
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

Quote: Originally Posted by Xtremegurl
lol at Kris not having an argument for her arms b/c he'll "send" the new owner the promised parts. I was simply amazed at that statement. How the hell does sending someone else something she paid for rectify that situation?

my thought exactly....any and all parts can be sent to my ATTN at AVS since I am there all day,contact info is in my sig!
Old 08-26-2008, 03:04 AM   #392
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

I've concluded that Joe is developing Alzheimer's.
Old 08-26-2008, 08:01 AM   #393
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL




now i know why I love this forum... hahahaha
Old 08-26-2008, 08:08 AM   #394
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

Quote: Originally Posted by kevdog
Old business adage:

"If a person has a good experience, they'll tell 1 person. If they have a BAD experience, they'll tell 100!"
so true.

The saying on the stickers from the oil change place I was assssitant manager at for around 5 years was:

"If you like us...tell someone, if you dont, tell us first!"
Old 08-26-2008, 08:17 AM   #395
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

Quote: Originally Posted by Forklift
let it go and save face.
barnyard customs / dallas hot rod parts / mike witte is so far from even being on the same continent that saving face lives, he might as well drown on the way over.
Old 08-26-2008, 04:30 PM   #396
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

well I got another email from Ole Joe:


Scott,
yesterday, evening we decided to change the 1/2 plug and plays to use all compression style fittings. This will insure a leak free experience for our customers. We took your plug and play off the truck so we can change it to the new fittings. The same tracking info will be used.

Travis
Old 08-26-2008, 04:41 PM   #397
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

huh off what truck? Are they sending you a used one?
Old 08-26-2008, 05:02 PM   #398
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

Quote: Originally Posted by ZQ8 Blazer
huh off what truck? Are they sending you a used one?
delivery truck as I know it hasnt been shipped yet
Old 08-26-2008, 05:07 PM   #399
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

oh ok
Old 08-26-2008, 08:32 PM   #400
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Re: AIM has good products because Joe says so! LOL

Quote: Originally Posted by barnyard customs
you know hes mad at the idiots like some of you that say shit thats not true. Just look at any hate topic on here and theres plenty thats not true. he lageally can sue any one of you for that. Its a lost cause though because he will lose more customers even if he wins. thats basically what I told him. I will post the emails to and from me, him and kris on my site.

You guys can say what you want about me, Im tired of trying to come into forums and get you guys that say shit to bring some facts. Im sending parts out for old orders, paying people back and Ill let the parts speak for me. thats all I can do.

heres the link to the page on my site with the emails. Forgive the plain page style. I justb put it together in html in about 10 minutes.

www.dallashotrodparts.com/emailssm.html

feel free to comment here or at xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
all im seein is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!




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