Wiring Epic160 & a Line Driver into my system

[MCarmer]

Alright just as the title says, I have a question on the correct way to wire a Audio Control Epic 160(Bass restoration/SPL Mic) then after that wire a PG TLD44 Line Driver(2 Chan LD)

MY Alpine headunit will be in the mail today coming back from URS, it was fixed because the screen cracked on it! While it was out i had installed the Epic 160, PG line driver, DD sub and sub box along with the amp.

As fo right now when i plugged a borrowed Pioneer unit in the dash to test out the equipment, it all gets power fine everything lights up. BUT when i have the RCA's plugged into the line driver it makes the sub pulsate badly.

That why im thinking that i should rewire the remote wire setup FROM the way i have it now.

Here is a breakdown of my system not that it really matters when wiring these additonal accessories.
Alpine IVA-W200 6.5 indash touchscreen(Only 3 sets of 4V preouts)
Alpine F450 4 channel amp (all 4 guage wire)
ALL Memphis M Class Mids & highs
Digital Designs 9515G subwoofer (wired to 2 ohm, as im only using one now)
Digital Designs Z2 amplifier
300 amp excessive Amperage HO Alt, 2 Yellow tops under motor, Kinteik 1800 in rear ALL 0 GUAGE WIRE


OK now my biggest question which ive never really thought about before is this.
What is the correct way to wire up the remote wires for all these additional components?(A bunch of wires directly from the back of the HU? Jump from each components Remote wire plug?)

ALSO Is it ok to ground the line driver in the same spot where my 4 channel amp is grounded at?(Grounded on the body, OR Would that cause a loop or additional noise)

Here is the way i have this all wired up now, and im getting the sub pulsating noise.

REMOTE WIRE:
I have Alpine HU remote wire split into 2. 1 wire going directly to the 4 channel amp. The other wire goes directly to the AC EPIC 160.
Then from the Epic 160's remote wire inlet i have another wire coming directly from that going to the Line Driver, then from the line drivers inlet jack i have the remote wire going to the DDZ2 amplifier.

Now all of the equipment is turning on and getting power, BUT Im getting that mean pulsating sub noise right now.

RCA CABLES:
From back of Alpine HU to the AC Epic 160, back of the Epic 160 to the Line driver, from the Line driver to the DD Z2 amp.

POWER CABLES:
Main batt POS to ANL fuse then wired directly to the 4 channel amp. ALL 4 GUAGE.
Main Batt wired to the 2nd batt under hood POS to ANL Fuse straight down top of frame rail to the 3rd Batt in rears POS, then 2 lines from the POS on 3rd batt to each their own ANL fuse then into the 2 POS plugs on the DDZ2 ALL 0 GUAGE Wire

Accessories power sources:
The Epic 160's 12v power comes from the 12v constant wire on the Alpine HU.
The Line Drivers 12v constant comes from the Epic 160's 12V constant inlet plug.(Jumped it from there to the LD)

GROUNDING CABLES:
Alpine Headunit ground is on chasis behind the dash(STOCK SIZED WIRE ON HARNESS)
4 Channel Amp is grounded with 4 guage cable(Power is 4 guage also) directly to the body 1 foot away
The Epic 160's ground wire comes from the HU wiring harness ground wire(Stock size on harness)
The PG Line drivers ground wire goes straight to the same spot as the 4 channel amps ground(screwed to the body by the amplifier)
The DDZ2 amplifier is grounded to the 3rd battery in the back(on the top post)(all 0 guage also)
The third battery in the back is grounded directly to the frame below the truck bed.(0 guage)
The main battery under the motor is grounded directly to the frame 1 foot long cable(0 guage)
The 2nd batt is ground directly from its Neg post to the NEG post on the main battery.(0 guage)

I am using all 0 guage wires between all batteries, all links are fused correctly with ANL fuses.
Ive grounded everything to the frame or body if I couldnt get to the frame on just the 4channel amp and Line driver.
I am using all KnuKoncepts wiring including KnuKoncepts RCA's.

Im keeping with all of the manufacturers recommended wire sizes on power wire and ground wire, in fact ive actually went a size bigger or more on certain things due to not having enough small wire to use.

ALL my mids and highs work without noise at all.
ALL of the electronics turn on and have power.

Only problem is the sub pulsates whether you have music playing or not. As long as the headunit is turned on it pulsates.

This is what im thinking of doing today and seeing if it fixes the problem.


POSSIBLE PROBLEM:
The remote wire may NOT have enough voltage to keep the amplifier running?

POSSIBLE SOLUTION:Im thinking of rerunning my remote wire(making an additional wire from the back of the headunit directly to the DDZ2 amp in the rear, instead of jumping it from each accessory to the DDZ2)

POSSIBLE PROBLEM:
There maybe some noise introduced into the RCA cables somewhere. Somewhere along the line of 3 RCA's being used they could have crossed a power wire(MOST LIKELY BEHIND THE ALPINE HU IN DASH)

POSSIBLE SOLUTION:
Pull out all my RCA cables and rerun them, be sure to keep away from any power wires EVEN Remote wires, just to be sure.

POSSIBLE PROBLEM:
There could be a bad ground on the 3rd battery or from the amplifier.

POSSIBLE SOLUTION:
Redo the grounds, this time use my drill and wire brush wheel to scrape the paint off, for a cleaner ground to the frame.

Sorry for the NOVEL but if i didnt include as much detaila s possible you may not be able to help me with the problem or make suggestions on how to better what ive done here.

Does anyone know or can you think of something im missing here? or what this problem can be caused from?

[MCarmer]

Also Ive heard possibly that it could be a bad ground on one of the RCA cables?

Meaning what exactly? and how do i ground an RCA cable lol.

Correct me if im wrong, BUT Ive always thought the RCAS were grounded through each of the accessories or amps ground wire you plugged it into.

[MCarmer]

Talking to myself still because no ones on their comps this early in the mornin but ive been searching all morning long.

I came to this thread, and This will be the first thing i do when i get home is scrape off the spot for the ground better for the 3rd battery grounds.

Since the amp is grounded directly to the 3rd battery it will benefit from this.

In addition to cleaning up the ground on the frame for the 3rd battery. I was going to also check the input jacks on the Z2 and make sure they are not loose, they shouldnt be loose as the amp is new! But you never know, could have happened when handling the amp sitting it on its side or soemthing by accident could have pushed the RCA jacks into the amp breaking the connections?!I dunno Ill still see if they move in and out though.

ANYWHO Heres the thread I found, it sounds much like what the problem im having right now.
So im going to try all RCA related stuff and also ground related stuff and check the jacks connection to.
http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f27/pulsing-308589/


Anyone else have any ideas or anything i may have missed?

[ohsolos10]

ok i ask almost the exact question 2 days ago your problem is the fact that the epic 160 is a line driver as well so your trying to use 2 items that are upping the rca voltage try it with out the line driver.

[ohsolos10]

oh and if you are going to run multiple items off your remote use a relay.

[jcsonoma]

Exactly what ohsolos10 just said the epic 160 is a line driver as well. Have you ever used the epic 160 before, I hated my epic 160, just didn't like the way it made my bass sound and it would introduce alot of clipping from the voltage increase. And I thought the spl meter on it was cool because I use to compete alot but the majority of events I went to used a TL mic, not an audio control.

I would get the same pulsating from the subs with just an epic 160 hooked up to my system unless it was not activated, I would try just the line driver or epic 160 individually and see if that clears anything up.

[MCarmer]

huh, i have the manual for my Epic 160 and it says nothing about it being a line driver, and from what i remember reading online it wasnt.

Now ive ran AC stuff before like my three.1 which i LOVED! But i sold that with my last truck, i think im going to just disconnect the Epic and run only the LD and see what that does for me.

[MCarmer]

Quote: Originally Posted by ohsolos10

oh and if you are going to run multiple items off your remote use a relay.

You referring to a normal 35 amp relay? like a relay plug or what?

ive always jsut split the line and ran it to diff accessories.

A link would be helpful lol.

[skinnyg]

I bet you are trying to draw too much from your remote turn on and its dooin funny stuff. Yea get a relay.

[juddspaintballs]

certainly you want to use a relay (a normal 30-40 amp bosch type relay) for your remote wire. more than 2 accessories running off of it and it starts doing funny things.

fixing up the ground at the 3rd battery is/was a good idea.

which knu konceptz kables are you using? some of theirs are good, and some of theirs suck.

try unhooking the epic and bypassing it to see if the pulsating stops. that's a real simple way to check to see if that is the problem.

[MCarmer]

Quote: Originally Posted by juddspaintballs

certainly you want to use a relay (a normal 30-40 amp bosch type relay) for your remote wire. more than 2 accessories running off of it and it starts doing funny things.

fixing up the ground at the 3rd battery is/was a good idea.

which knu konceptz kables are you using? some of theirs are good, and some of theirs suck.

try unhooking the epic and bypassing it to see if the pulsating stops. that's a real simple way to check to see if that is the problem.

Im using all Colusussus(SP?) cable for power and ground wire.
and as far as RCA's are concerned Im using Karma RCA's throughout.

So does anyone have a wiring diagram for the relay setup your talking about?

im curious how to set it up correctly.

http://www.mobileaudiocontrol.com/de...d=5250&l1=5250
The AC website is saying its not a 13v linedriver like the other 2 AC processors they have out.

I just read a review on this site. http://www.carstereomall.com/product-reviews/audio-control-epic-160-bass-restoration-signal-processor-review.htm

Says nothing about it boosting the voltage? The AC website says nothing about it boosting the voltage?

I listen to all kinds of music, rap, rock and even odler rock. Most of the music i listen to has bass in it even the rock, so i dont think i will need to really push on getting the bass turned up anymore.

If i use only the Line driver, and don’t use the EPIC 160 does anyone want to trade me for a THREE.1? or FOUR.1? or buy the Epic 160 off of me, I have the box the manual, mounting brackets and all the original stuff still. Its been sitting in my closet for a while.

[juddspaintballs]

The relay has 4 (or 5) pins on the bottom. Pin 85 gets wired to a ground, Pin 86 gets wired to the remote turn on from the head unit, Pin 87 goes to each component that needs the signal from the remote wire, and Pin 30 gets wired to constant power from the truck. If the relay has a 5th pin (87a), don't use it.

more detailed explanation:
http://www.partsexpress.com/resources/relays.html

having one of these plugs for the relay makes life REALLY simple:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=330-075

relay:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=330-079

[thunder94]

Bad amp ground?

And simplify your system by just starting with the head unit and sub amp, if there is no prob them add a piece, then another. I doubt it's remote turn on amperage, I am running 8 items off of mine with no relay.
The Epic 160 is not advertised as a line driver but it still is. Try turning the BAss Restoration off, you will only use it on older recordings and compressed music anyway.

[MCarmer]

Quote: Originally Posted by thunder94

Bad amp ground?

And simplify your system by just starting with the head unit and sub amp, if there is no prob them add a piece, then another. I doubt it's remote turn on amperage, I am running 8 items off of mine with no relay.
The Epic 160 is not advertised as a line driver but it still is. Try turning the BAss Restoration off, you will only use it on older recordings and compressed music anyway.

I just redone my ground on the 3rd battery im hoping that when my alpine comes in today(UPS from being repaired) I can get this noise to go away.

Im thinking the pulsing was from having the rcas amplified TWICE once from the Epic 160 and then again by the line driver.
So first since they are both wired up im gonna unhook the Line driver and see if that makes the difference, IF not then ill use the line driver and unplug the epic 160 and see.

Either way i made a new better ground than I previously had, then i shook the rca jack on the amp and its ROCK solid, so its not that either.

So my options left once i get the Alpine back in today will be to unplug one or the other and of course make sure my RCAs are routed correctly again. I took them out when the HU was sent in for repairs.

So we will see here in a bit, im waiting for UPS now.

Then i will get this thing going!

[thunder94]

I'll just wait here then?

Good luck to ya!

[juddspaintballs]

still run a relay on that remote wire. if you toast it, you'll be finding your ignition wire and tapping into it.

[paint toad]

go read your manual again....it distinctly says,and i quote:

"Ground Connection: Use the same gauge wire as you did for
the positive connector and run it from the “Ground” connector on
the EPIC-160 to the negative terminal of the battery, a ground buss,
or a verified ground location. The factory head unit ground is NOT
recommended."


also....even though you are getting pulsing not a whine,did you mess with this at all?

Input Grounding: For most systems you can leave this
jumper set in the BALANCED position. In some systems, the
source unit may look for a ground through the RCA connection to
the amplifier and create a ground loop, which in turn can cause a
whine in your system (we are not talking about Pinot Noir). In that
event, you should go ahead and change the jumpers to the UNBALANCED
position.

Ground Isolation Selector: Occasionally alternator whine
may appear in a system because the source unit and amplifier are
using different grounding schemes. To help in this situation, we
have provided alternative grounding connections. Make sure your
system is turned OFF before you move these jumpers.



a ground loop can also cause pulsing the same way as dvc subs can if the coils are wired wrong



i say STOP:

read your manuals again.....if you can't read the manuals and hook up things the way they say,or try to troubleshoot things with the info they give you(sorry,it does require independant thought) then there's not alot i can help with........


and i am not trying to be a dick,i am just telling it the way i see it!




and get rid of that shitty ass PG line driver and get another audiocontrol unit that is designed to work with the epic-160

[MCarmer]

alright so i can move the ground wire for it, not hard to do, ill run it to the body and use that as the spot.

Since people are saying the epic is a line driver i may as well just ditch the pg like you said, cant run them both together.

Its not like i would snotice a big improvement running a true dedicated line driver anyway, ive heard the Z2 should only take up to 6volts, so even if the epic is not a line driver of sorts its not that big of a deal.

Im still waiting on damn ups, its 5pm here now so hopefully it comes soon!

O yea i didnt mess with the jumper settings yet because i didnt even get it past the pulsing noise.

I put this stuff in while my screen was out for repairs so i have yet to get any of it working with Alpine other than the 4 channel and mids and highs.

[paint toad]

well,like i said,a ground loop can cause pulsing ....... play with the jumpers...

[Jake the SSnake]

FYI, pioneers are notorious for bad rca grounds. It happens when the HU isn't grounded properly and it blows a micro fuse. Here is a "temporary fix" (how to ground rca's). http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showth...r+rca+grou nd

[MCarmer]

dammit, figures as soon as UPS rolls up.

I get literally 15 minutes to put the alpine back in and then it starts raining!

Its stillr aining outside and its not supposed ot let up until tomorrow morning, then it starts abck up again tomorrow afternoon.

Well at least i got the alpine in the dash and working so i can listen to some music on my mids and highs.

So hopefully tomorrow afternoon i can get all this stuff going right.

Ill post an update after i get it all wired up tomorrow afternoon.
Gotta work in the morning so i wont be able to get to it till late afternoon again.

Work suck, rain sucks and MS always ALWAYS does this to me at least.

Never plan on working or doing something outside in MS because it WILL rain on you and rain buckets.

[MCarmer]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jake the SSnake

FYI, pioneers are notorious for bad rca grounds. It happens when the HU isn't grounded properly and it blows a micro fuse. Here is a "temporary fix" (how to ground rca's). http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showth...r+rca+grou nd

Thats ghetto i would have soldered the tip of the wire onto each rca cable end and then put it under those screws with a terminal ring.

But i got an alpine ive never heard of this problem with alpines.

Quote: Originally Posted by paint toad

well,like i said,a ground loop can cause pulsing ....... play with the jumpers...

Yes sir i will ill mess with the jumpers on it, I left the AC Epic 160 in the truck and took the PG line driver out, and the whole bundle of wires with it to.

Also redid the ground on the Epic to be grounded on the body close by since i dont think the seat bolts will be as good as the body would be.

The Epic powers up and all mids and highs are working fine with no noise. Didnt have time to do the rest because of the rain, and thunder.

I still have to run the RCA cables to the back again and run a new remote wire to the back because when i pulled the rca's out i pulled out the remote wire for the DDZ2 also.

No biggie just do those two things and play around with some settings and i hope it will be good to go

[MCarmer]

O yea i forgot to say thanks, i was looking at the online manual and overlooked that. Lol the paper manual was at home and its in the box in the closet I was lazy and didnt wanna dig it out.

Good lookin out

Quote: Originally Posted by paint toad

go read your manual again....it distinctly says,and i quote:

"Ground Connection: Use the same gauge wire as you did for
the positive connector and run it from the “Ground” connector on
the EPIC-160 to the negative terminal of the battery, a ground buss,
or a verified ground location. The factory head unit ground is NOT
recommended."


also....even though you are getting pulsing not a whine,did you mess with this at all?

Input Grounding: For most systems you can leave this
jumper set in the BALANCED position. In some systems, the
source unit may look for a ground through the RCA connection to
the amplifier and create a ground loop, which in turn can cause a
whine in your system (we are not talking about Pinot Noir). In that
event, you should go ahead and change the jumpers to the UNBALANCED
position.

Ground Isolation Selector: Occasionally alternator whine
may appear in a system because the source unit and amplifier are
using different grounding schemes. To help in this situation, we
have provided alternative grounding connections. Make sure your
system is turned OFF before you move these jumpers.



a ground loop can also cause pulsing the same way as dvc subs can if the coils are wired wrong



i say STOP:

read your manuals again.....if you can't read the manuals and hook up things the way they say,or try to troubleshoot things with the info they give you(sorry,it does require independant thought) then there's not alot i can help with........


and i am not trying to be a dick,i am just telling it the way i see it!




and get rid of that shitty ass PG line driver and get another audiocontrol unit that is designed to work with the epic-160

[paint toad]

idealy,you want EVERYTHING grounded at the same location.....my radio,my EQL,amps,caps(yes i run 2 caps)....all grounded at the same location...i have no noise

[thunder94]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jake the SSnake

FYI, pioneers are notorious for bad rca grounds. It happens when the HU isn't grounded properly and it blows a micro fuse. Here is a "temporary fix" (how to ground rca's). http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showth...r+rca+grou nd

Pioneer's are not notorious for bad RCA grounds, people are notorious for not grounding their amps correctly. Thus the amp looks for a ground through the barrel of the RCA. Pioneer uses small pico fuses in their circuit boards where as other companies may just burn the trace off the board. I have seen it time and time again. I have owned Pioneer decks for the last 10 years without a noise problem.

[Jake the SSnake]

Quote: Originally Posted by thunder94

Pioneer's are not notorious for bad RCA grounds, people are notorious for not grounding their amps correctly. Thus the amp looks for a ground through the barrel of the RCA. Pioneer uses small pico fuses in their circuit boards where as other companies may just burn the trace off the board. I have seen it time and time again. I have owned Pioneer decks for the last 10 years without a noise problem.

Either way it is a problem, I don't see any other brands having this problem especially as often as pioneer's. But as you said it can be prevented with a proper install. I bought a used pioneer with this problem and after having it fixed it works great, it was the most obnoxious noise I've ever heard in car audio .

[thunder94]

And you never know how well that used deck was treated prior to your ownership.
It is an obnoxious noise for sure.
We call it "audible Tach" here in the biz.