good story

[triple r]

ok, so i was shot an offer yesterday. i currently have 3 alpine type r 12's. they have been taken good care of. well the local shop owner (barry) he swears up and down by kicker. we have known each other for a bit and are good pals. he called today wanting to make me a deal. he wanted my 3 r's and my MA hk401sx and 600 for my choice of 3 L7's or 3 cvx's and a zx 2500.1.........i said h/o a min and cleared my throat. i got back on with him and asked him. if he was serious. he said yeah, i know your wangin but i figured you would want to be really wanging. and i told him that im sure that my 3 r's are as loud and sound better than the 3 l7's/cvx's. he told me that i was crazy and gimme the big round vs. square speech and how the kickers could handle more power. i instantly said h/o a min. you have no idea what your talking about. my r's took 900+ daily when i had only 2 of them, you have no experience with them. i told him that i would keep my amp and subs. he said okay but your going to be dissappointed when sound and showdown comes around and im gonna have at least 3 kicker setups in there that are gonna take it all. (sound and showdown is the local event that goes down august 8th) i told him he was on. im going down there tomrrow and see what all he has in store for me. so.....anyone bash me for taking alpine over kicker? i figured id post this and see what some of you all think.

[01cherryreds10]

:applause:

If he thinks Kickers are better, why'd he want to trade you for your Alpines

[poconojoe]

Quote: Originally Posted by 01cherryreds10

:applause:

If he thinks Kickers are better, why'd he want to trade you for your Alpines

Because when sound and showdown comes around he doesn't want the guys that he sold the Kicker setups to, to get shown up by the guy with the Alpines

[skinnyg]

I would say the amp is better

[von Cube]

keep them and show him up!

[nd4spd18]

Well the amp he is offering you is 1000x better than what you have.

L7s would definetly be louder but sound like crap.

As for Type R vs CVX that would be close but I'd have to bet on the CVXs being better. Of course that is very install dependent.

[immexicansostfu]

wut size subs were these? the l7's imo would definetel be louder than than the alpines hands down. and that amp can push out some serious power.

[paint toad]

alpine>kicker

[triple r]

Quote: Originally Posted by immexicansostfu

wut size subs were these? the l7's imo would definetel be louder than than the alpines hands down. and that amp can push out some serious power.

your right about the amp. but i dont know what makes you think that the l7's would be louder......there wouldnt be a noticable difference. im guessing your a square fan too?

[triple r]

Quote: Originally Posted by nd4spd18

Well the amp he is offering you is 1000x better than what you have.

L7s would definetly be louder but sound like crap.

As for Type R vs CVX that would be close but I'd have to bet on the CVXs being better. Of course that is very install dependent.

have you heard a cvx next to a type r?..........the only difference is that the type r's are a bit more clean.

[juddspaintballs]

if it's a purely SPL based competition, concentrate your efforts into sound deadening, designing a strictly sq box, and finding a better and more powerful amp. then learn the rules of the competition and experiment with adjusting your seats and sun visors to get the most SPL where they place the meter.

[immexicansostfu]

Quote: Originally Posted by triple r

your right about the amp. but i dont know what makes you think that the l7's would be louder......there wouldnt be a noticable difference. im guessing your a square fan too?

no but im like 90 percent sure that l7s WILL get louder than the type r's with the same amp but quality overall i think the type r's are better.

[PandaS10]

nice....i hope you own that fool at the comp.

[greatdane68]

Man, good luck, and I hope that you hand that guy his ass. Let us all know what happens.

[baledgemowing]

type r's sound better and are louder.....i have one....its for sale because i only have a regular cab if anyone wants it

[triple r]

yep. im fully deadened and ready
im hopin that the 2 15 l7's in the blow thru wont give me any trouble...whats your alls thoughts on that one

[timtp2004]

Quote: Originally Posted by triple r

yep. im fully deadened and ready
im hopin that the 2 15 l7's in the blow thru wont give me any trouble...whats your alls thoughts on that one

I have seen 2 l7 10's get down and hit a 152.3. But in a very good box so it all really depends on sey up.

[therule546]

you just made a dumb decision. that trade was well worth it even if you only keep the amp. That amp is loads better than what you have. plus three type r 12"s will run you under 300 new if you decided to go back. Those subs are all very close in build quality and sound, its only gonna come down to your install that determines which is louder and sounds better. That deal was well worth it for the amp, plus you most likely would not notice a huge difference between the subs.

[juddspaintballs]

Quote: Originally Posted by therule546

Those subs are all very close in build quality and sound, its only gonna come down to your install that determines which is louder and sounds better. That deal was well worth it for the amp, plus you most likely would not notice a huge difference between the subs.

There is a huge difference in sound between R's and L7's and CVX's. The L7's are pretty sloppy and they slobber all over music like a St. Bernard in July: but they do have a pretty powerful bark if you plug them into some real power. The CVX's are still fairly sloppy, but are leaps and bounds better than the L7's for a more accurate musical sound. However, they don't have the bark that an L7 does. Sloppy can get loud really quickly just like everyone can hear you fart in a room full of people engaged in conversation regardless of if the fart was real loud or not. The nasty sound sticks out like a sore thumb just like the sound of an L7 is loud because its not very accurate so you notice it more. The R's get pretty loud but are more easily attenuated to musical quality over dBs. The R's are better then the CVX's at both quality and loudness in most applications.

If you put 3 12" L7's in a box built purely for them for SPL and gave each sub 1000w of clean power, then it will sound very awful but it will probably score very well. If you put 3 12" R's in a box built purely for them for SPL and gave each sub 1000w of clean power, then it will sound pretty bad still (a SPL box never sounds good with music), but it will still score pretty well, though probably a bit less than the L7's. Put 3 12" CVX's in a box built for them for SPL and it will still sound pretty bad, but it will probably score the least of the 3 setups. This assumes all 3 setups are in the same vehicle.

---

So to make the R's louder to win, you really really really need to concentrate on sound deadening and designing a purely SPL box for the subs. Find some cleaner and more efficient power and be sure to have the electrical behind the amp(s) to feed them.

I know you say you're sound deadened now, but it's not enough. Do at least 1 more layer on your floor, doors, firewall, ceiling, back wall, and anything else in your cab that is not glass. Stiffen up your roof by adding some aluminum bar as ribbing and then laying down more deadener on the roof. A flexing roof can reduce the SPL in the cabin by as much as 2dB or more. Seal over the vent in your back wall that allows air to escape when you close your doors too.

Amp(s) need to be quality this time around if you really want to win. PPI, US Amps, Zed Audio, Sundown, and a few others in that price range won't break your bank but will still give you solid and clean power. I'd look into 3 separate amps personally because it may be cheaper. Shoot for about 1000w per sub.

Your box needs to be really well built for SPL. A professional design from Pete with Team Toxic Bass (you can contact him through hexibase.com) can do wonders for your score. Ideally, any box you build needs to flex as little as possible and leak absolutely no of air. This may require building the box with a complete double layer of .75" MDF and still bracing it and sealing the interior of the box with resin...completely. That will also make the interior of your port a little more 'slippery' and allow the air coming/going out/in to do so ever so slightly faster (which increases SPL ever so slightly).


There are tons of little things you can do to increase your SPL a few fractions of a dB that could eventually add up to an overall increase of an entire dB or two. A professionally designed box can do you even better (last I checked, Pete was still designing boxes for $60 and they were vehicle, subwoofer, and style specific). If you can't afford more amplifier for the subs, at least concentrate on box and sound deadening/anti-flexing. Then play around with your sunvisor and seat positions as they also affect SPL at the dash. 3 R's in a good box and a well deadened s-10 should make your windshield wipers hop off the windshield a bit.






And if you lose, you can always tell the shop owner that most people burp their subwoofers at competitions, but all Kicker products can do is fart.

[skinnyg]

I honestly have never liked Kicker woofers since about 10 years ago everyone was like get some Kicker comps (the old c12a I think) and I smoked them, and they were loud but bleh. JL took their place. 4 12" W1's sounded great and really hit, but for the price nowadays I wouldnt pay for JL.
In your situation I would rather have the arghhhhhhhhhhhs and probably a better less shitty amp.

[01cherryreds10]

Quote: Originally Posted by skinnyg

I honestly have never liked Kicker woofers since about 10 years ago everyone was like get some Kicker comps (the old c12a I think) and I smoked them, and they were loud but bleh. JL took their place. 4 12" W1's sounded great and really hit, but for the price nowadays I wouldnt pay for JL.
In your situation I would rather have the arghhhhhhhhhhhs and probably a better less shitty amp.

I have two in my truck right now! At 150W RMS, they aren't as bad as I thought. But, still, they are Kickers.

[triple r]

Quote: Originally Posted by juddspaintballs

And if you lose, you can always tell the shop owner that most people burp their subwoofers at competitions, but all Kicker products can do is fart.

gawd something ill never forget....kicker sound is like farting in a fan

[01cherryreds10]

http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f27/al...8/#post5240267

Quote: Originally Posted by 01cherryreds10

Kicker's are like farting in a fan, all choppy. I'm probably going to grenade my Kickers after I get my two Type R's

[PandaS10]

^ haha, that was like the first time i ever talked to you. i had seen your system before though.

[triple r]

yea the only difference is that i have a bigger box that has all subs firing up.

[PandaS10]

i know...

[Speedy2222]

so what happened at the sound comp?

[PandaS10]

Quote: Originally Posted by Speedy2222

so what happened at the sound comp?

doesn't happen until august 8th.

[Speedy2222]

o whops lol i thought he said it was the upcoming weekend

[triple r]

no sir, its the 8th

[sLonoma22]

You need more power on the R's along with a well-built ported box, completely deadened car. I would buy the zx2500.1 and run them on the R's just to piss him off. hopefully you win with the R's

if you wanted a fart box only, maybe the L7's would be louder at higher power. But as a daily driver, keep the R's and refine everything else.

[triple r]

oh trust me, that is a good box......but its not tuned to some stupid high hz, its somewhere near 32........i think i got it