good 12" woofer

therule546 · 06-28-2009, 10:41 PM

Personally in boxes built to JLs specs I wasnt happy until the w7. The w6s were tolerable, the w3s sounded hollow, and Id go without subs before I would ever consider a w0 or w1 havent heard their shallow mount. Dont want to.

Reading through this post again I saw a reccomendation for a ported box tuned to 16-18 hz and I have to say why? It really isnt useful in a car audio environment. Anything under 20hz your not going to hear anyway, its mostly just the feel. And I ASSUME he is using it for music only. There is not going to be anything below 30 hz in his music unless he is listening to bass mechanik or the like. If he is going for lows I would tend to tune somewhere between 28-32hz. It is plenty low, and it should have usable output up to an octave lower than the tuning frequency. My box in my ex cab is 3.5 cubes housing a tc-3000 tuned to 33hz. It can go as low as any of the music I have ever played on it with the exception of Bass I Love You which if you are familiar with the song has 5 hz tones thrown in at intervals.

Cmac95 · 06-28-2009, 10:54 PM

Alright, don't have to keep bashing JL into the ground, I was just giving my opinion, no need to go on about how horrible they are to you.

therule546 · 06-28-2009, 11:15 PM

Well you did ask how they sound ported. I will say the w7 is a decent all around driver so long as its not in the prefab HO enclosure. The 8" w7 is a great solution for those short on space.

And this wasnt really directed towards you. You arent the OP and there is an on going discussion about drivers and I have a strong opinion towards JL

Audiofanatic01 · 06-29-2009, 01:56 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by therule546

Personally in boxes built to JLs specs I wasnt happy until the w7. The w6s were tolerable, the w3s sounded hollow, and Id go without subs before I would ever consider a w0 or w1 havent heard their shallow mount. Dont want to.

Reading through this post again I saw a reccomendation for a ported box tuned to 16-18 hz and I have to say why? It really isnt useful in a car audio environment. Anything under 20hz your not going to hear anyway, its mostly just the feel. And I ASSUME he is using it for music only. There is not going to be anything below 30 hz in his music unless he is listening to bass mechanik or the like. If he is going for lows I would tend to tune somewhere between 28-32hz. It is plenty low, and it should have usable output up to an octave lower than the tuning frequency. My box in my ex cab is 3.5 cubes housing a tc-3000 tuned to 33hz. It can go as low as any of the music I have ever played on it with the exception of Bass I Love You which if you are familiar with the song has 5 hz tones thrown in at intervals.

There is absolutely no reason to tune that low in a vehicle. Cabin gain starts around 50 Hz usually (probably 60'ish in our little S10's) and continues to boost the lower you go. What I mean is that there is usually around 20 dB of natural boost at 20 Hz. You don't need to build an enclosure that it tuned that low just to get output down that far. And to top it all off there are VERY few drivers that will be flat down to 20 Hz outside of the vehicle in anything under 6 cubes (which is what you're looking at when you're modeling up a subwoofer in an enclosure modeling program: the response you're looking at is an a huge dead chamber, NOT a car!). For the car environment there should be no reason to tune any lower than 30 Hz.

IdonthaveanS10 · 06-30-2009, 09:19 PM

so OP did you get a D1 fi ssd yet? It really is your best option

Dr. Steve · 06-30-2009, 09:21 PM

I am impressed with my Kicker CVT's performance off a ZR750.1 amp

oldskoolchevelle · 06-30-2009, 10:04 PM

shit i havent gotten anything yet... still need to sell my cvx's. but i think i got someone buying them soon

danssoslow · 06-30-2009, 11:47 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by IdonthaveanS10

Just as a sub overall. Output wise all but the dcon and maybe the lvl3 will beat out daytons and theyre higher quality

What makes you think either of those speakers are of higher quality than the Dayton?

IdonthaveanS10 · 07-01-2009, 04:39 AM

daytons are little dinky guys, im not impressed by them at all nor would i ever recommend them over any of the subs I listed SO long ago

danssoslow · 07-01-2009, 12:56 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by IdonthaveanS10

daytons are little dinky guys, im not impressed by them at all nor would i ever recommend them over any of the subs I listed SO long ago

In other words, it's opinion based on nothing.

IdonthaveanS10 · 07-01-2009, 09:42 PM

yup pretty much and im entitled to it. You get what you pay for(at least outside of mainstream marketing), and at that price and by the size of the motor im not impressed at all. In terms of how they sound I've heard good things, but if im going to buy a subwoofer I want some output from it.

danssoslow · 07-01-2009, 11:06 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by IdonthaveanS10

yup pretty much and im entitled to it. You get what you pay for(at least outside of mainstream marketing), and at that price and by the size of the motor im not impressed at all. In terms of how they sound I've heard good things, but if im going to buy a subwoofer I want some output from it.

I won't try to take your opinion away from you. What I don't agree with is giving advice based solely on opinion. Ignorance isn't a bad thing, spreading it is. C'mon, you are basing Dayton's quality on an internet pic. If that isn't ignorant, then I don't know what ignorant is.

BTW, when talking about "you get what you pay for", realize that Dayton is a large company that has been producing a very high quality product for many years. Ain't no magnet going to show that to you.

C-Bo · 07-02-2009, 02:20 AM

Check out Addictive Audio and Treo Engineering.. they both are awesome companies! Addictive has a sub line called V2 and their 12" cant be beat on price($250 my shop) and output (2001 eclipse with two 12" v2's in a ported pre-fab probox did 149db on a term-lab meter with only 1200 watts rms each !) Treo has a line called SSI that is pretty shallow and better output than the Addictive V2 but is pretty costly ($325 my shop)..

IdonthaveanS10 · 07-02-2009, 05:23 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by danssoslow

I won't try to take your opinion away from you. What I don't agree with is giving advice based solely on opinion. Ignorance isn't a bad thing, spreading it is. C'mon, you are basing Dayton's quality on an internet pic. If that isn't ignorant, then I don't know what ignorant is.

BTW, when talking about "you get what you pay for", realize that Dayton is a large company that has been producing a very high quality product for many years. Ain't no magnet going to show that to you.

Okay, but by the same logic kicker, alpine, mtx, pioneer, etc. are large companies that have been out for years but none of their subs are worthwhile either... they just advertise more than dayton.

Between price, specs, and appearance none of the daytons recommended on here are even going to compare to his cvx's... and he is looking for an upgrade...

Not to mention the single 4 ohm the daytons boast. That will only use half the output his amp is capable of and that is just pointless. In this application any dayton is especially a no win situation. I don't care if they have the cleanest sound reproduction out of any subs on the market they still wont have enough output, and other subs are plenty clean enough.

I enjoy long semi-rants... understand there is no hostility here danssoslow

danssoslow · 07-02-2009, 09:21 AM

No hostility here at all; none given, none taken.

Have you heard of Adire? It's a defunct company, but produced many great subwoofers before deciding to close the doors. If you have, how would you rate the Shiva amongst these speakers?

old_skool_noma · 07-02-2009, 06:13 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by IdonthaveanS10

Okay, but by the same logic kicker, alpine, mtx, pioneer, etc. are large companies that have been out for years but none of their subs are worthwhile either... they just advertise more than dayton.

Between price, specs, and appearance none of the daytons recommended on here are even going to compare to his cvx's... and he is looking for an upgrade...

Not to mention the single 4 ohm the daytons boast. That will only use half the output his amp is capable of and that is just pointless. In this application any dayton is especially a no win situation. I don't care if they have the cleanest sound reproduction out of any subs on the market they still wont have enough output, and other subs are plenty clean enough.

I enjoy long semi-rants... understand there is no hostility here danssoslow

whats wrong with using only half the capable output? it makes the output that much cleaner, besides, 2x200 watts on my single 4 ohm 12" subs is more than enough low end for me most of the time (about twice as much actually) besides half the power is only 3 db theoretically and even in the real world even less because of thermal compression from more power to the voice coil so in actuality about 2-2.5 db, also i happen to like the look of the reference and titanic line from dayton, they have a nice clean look unlike most subwoofers out now that are cluttered with logos and strange looking baskets

oldskoolchevelle · 07-02-2009, 11:39 PM

well i just got a buyer for my kicker 750.1 and both cvx... so now its time to make a decision...

IdonthaveanS10 · 07-03-2009, 01:29 AM

Hmm i have heard of adire but not enough to know squat

Noma I guess I just like a setup to be loud, like really loud, and then it has to sound good as long as its loud.

Chevelle... Sold the amp now you have a world of possibilities...

old_skool_noma · 07-03-2009, 06:01 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by IdonthaveanS10

Hmm i have heard of adire but not enough to know squat

Noma I guess I just like a setup to be loud, like really loud, and then it has to sound good as long as its loud.

Chevelle... Sold the amp now you have a world of possibilities...

i like mine to be able to be loud when i want it to, but sound clean all the time
the way mine sits when i have my crossover set for SPL, at 40hz it will almost run me out of the truck from cabin gain, the meter (termlab) said it was hitting 136.5 in the passenger kick with the seats flipped up, but id say it was louder than that in the drivers seat

IdonthaveanS10 · 07-03-2009, 08:29 PM

Thats not bad for.... one 12" ? I have no clue what you have lol. Im more of a 142.3 guy in a sedan, and its still not loud enough for me, so im giving up any sq(had a fi q 15 they definitely sound nice and are LOWWW) for just plain loud now...

old_skool_noma · 07-03-2009, 11:26 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by IdonthaveanS10

Thats not bad for.... one 12" ? I have no clue what you have lol. Im more of a 142.3 guy in a sedan, and its still not loud enough for me, so im giving up any sq(had a fi q 15 they definitely sound nice and are LOWWW) for just plain loud now...

i actually have 2 12s getting 200rms each but im planning on getting some dayton HOs and giving them 600 each, it will only be turned up on a rare occasion, will I ever use that many watts, not hardly ever, but it is a LOT of headroom and I can use them for SPL on occasion

06-28-2009, 10:41 PM	#51
therule546 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,479 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: good 12" woofer Personally in boxes built to JLs specs I wasnt happy until the w7. The w6s were tolerable, the w3s sounded hollow, and Id go without subs before I would ever consider a w0 or w1 havent heard their shallow mount. Dont want to. Reading through this post again I saw a reccomendation for a ported box tuned to 16-18 hz and I have to say why? It really isnt useful in a car audio environment. Anything under 20hz your not going to hear anyway, its mostly just the feel. And I ASSUME he is using it for music only. There is not going to be anything below 30 hz in his music unless he is listening to bass mechanik or the like. If he is going for lows I would tend to tune somewhere between 28-32hz. It is plenty low, and it should have usable output up to an octave lower than the tuning frequency. My box in my ex cab is 3.5 cubes housing a tc-3000 tuned to 33hz. It can go as low as any of the music I have ever played on it with the exception of Bass I Love You which if you are familiar with the song has 5 hz tones thrown in at intervals.
	[Reply w/Quote]

06-28-2009, 10:54 PM	#52
Cmac95 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 42 Location: Lock Haven, Pa User is: OffLine	Re: good 12" woofer Alright, don't have to keep bashing JL into the ground, I was just giving my opinion, no need to go on about how horrible they are to you.
	[Reply w/Quote]

06-28-2009, 11:15 PM	#53
therule546 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,479 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: good 12" woofer Well you did ask how they sound ported. I will say the w7 is a decent all around driver so long as its not in the prefab HO enclosure. The 8" w7 is a great solution for those short on space. And this wasnt really directed towards you. You arent the OP and there is an on going discussion about drivers and I have a strong opinion towards JL
	[Reply w/Quote]

06-29-2009, 01:56 PM	#54
Audiofanatic01 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 21 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: good 12" woofer Quote: Originally Posted by therule546 Personally in boxes built to JLs specs I wasnt happy until the w7. The w6s were tolerable, the w3s sounded hollow, and Id go without subs before I would ever consider a w0 or w1 havent heard their shallow mount. Dont want to. Reading through this post again I saw a reccomendation for a ported box tuned to 16-18 hz and I have to say why? It really isnt useful in a car audio environment. Anything under 20hz your not going to hear anyway, its mostly just the feel. And I ASSUME he is using it for music only. There is not going to be anything below 30 hz in his music unless he is listening to bass mechanik or the like. If he is going for lows I would tend to tune somewhere between 28-32hz. It is plenty low, and it should have usable output up to an octave lower than the tuning frequency. My box in my ex cab is 3.5 cubes housing a tc-3000 tuned to 33hz. It can go as low as any of the music I have ever played on it with the exception of Bass I Love You which if you are familiar with the song has 5 hz tones thrown in at intervals. There is absolutely no reason to tune that low in a vehicle. Cabin gain starts around 50 Hz usually (probably 60'ish in our little S10's) and continues to boost the lower you go. What I mean is that there is usually around 20 dB of natural boost at 20 Hz. You don't need to build an enclosure that it tuned that low just to get output down that far. And to top it all off there are VERY few drivers that will be flat down to 20 Hz outside of the vehicle in anything under 6 cubes (which is what you're looking at when you're modeling up a subwoofer in an enclosure modeling program: the response you're looking at is an a huge dead chamber, NOT a car!). For the car environment there should be no reason to tune any lower than 30 Hz.
	[Reply w/Quote]

06-30-2009, 09:19 PM	#55
IdonthaveanS10 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 254 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: good 12" woofer so OP did you get a D1 fi ssd yet? It really is your best option
	[Reply w/Quote]

06-30-2009, 09:21 PM	#56
Dr. Steve Keepin' it Gangsta! Age: 27 Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 11,292 Location: Levittown, PA-☆-NE Philly-☆-Trenton, NJ-☆Tha 19057 Bitches☆ User is: Online	Re: good 12" woofer I am impressed with my Kicker CVT's performance off a ZR750.1 amp
	[Reply w/Quote]

06-30-2009, 10:04 PM	#57
oldskoolchevelle in the works Age: 20 Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 231 Location: Houston, Tx User is: OffLine	Re: good 12" woofer shit i havent gotten anything yet... still need to sell my cvx's. but i think i got someone buying them soon
	[Reply w/Quote]

06-30-2009, 11:47 PM	#58
danssoslow NOS make light brighter! Age: 34 Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,146 Location: Louisville, KY User is: OffLine	Re: good 12" woofer Quote: Originally Posted by IdonthaveanS10 Just as a sub overall. Output wise all but the dcon and maybe the lvl3 will beat out daytons and theyre higher quality What makes you think either of those speakers are of higher quality than the Dayton?
	[Reply w/Quote]

07-01-2009, 04:39 AM	#59
IdonthaveanS10 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 254 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: good 12" woofer daytons are little dinky guys, im not impressed by them at all nor would i ever recommend them over any of the subs I listed SO long ago
	[Reply w/Quote]

07-01-2009, 12:56 PM	#60
danssoslow NOS make light brighter! Age: 34 Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,146 Location: Louisville, KY User is: OffLine	Re: good 12" woofer Quote: Originally Posted by IdonthaveanS10 daytons are little dinky guys, im not impressed by them at all nor would i ever recommend them over any of the subs I listed SO long ago In other words, it's opinion based on nothing.
	[Reply w/Quote]

07-01-2009, 09:42 PM	#61
IdonthaveanS10 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 254 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: good 12" woofer yup pretty much and im entitled to it. You get what you pay for(at least outside of mainstream marketing), and at that price and by the size of the motor im not impressed at all. In terms of how they sound I've heard good things, but if im going to buy a subwoofer I want some output from it.
	[Reply w/Quote]

07-01-2009, 11:06 PM	#62
danssoslow NOS make light brighter! Age: 34 Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,146 Location: Louisville, KY User is: OffLine	Re: good 12" woofer Quote: Originally Posted by IdonthaveanS10 yup pretty much and im entitled to it. You get what you pay for(at least outside of mainstream marketing), and at that price and by the size of the motor im not impressed at all. In terms of how they sound I've heard good things, but if im going to buy a subwoofer I want some output from it. I won't try to take your opinion away from you. What I don't agree with is giving advice based solely on opinion. Ignorance isn't a bad thing, spreading it is. C'mon, you are basing Dayton's quality on an internet pic. If that isn't ignorant, then I don't know what ignorant is. BTW, when talking about "you get what you pay for", realize that Dayton is a large company that has been producing a very high quality product for many years. Ain't no magnet going to show that to you.
	[Reply w/Quote]

07-02-2009, 02:20 AM	#63
C-Bo RecklessPerformance Age: 22 Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 188 Location: The Fort, Ar User is: OffLine	Re: good 12" woofer Check out Addictive Audio and Treo Engineering.. they both are awesome companies! Addictive has a sub line called V2 and their 12" cant be beat on price($250 my shop) and output (2001 eclipse with two 12" v2's in a ported pre-fab probox did 149db on a term-lab meter with only 1200 watts rms each !) Treo has a line called SSI that is pretty shallow and better output than the Addictive V2 but is pretty costly ($325 my shop)..
	[Reply w/Quote]

07-02-2009, 05:23 AM	#64
IdonthaveanS10 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 254 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: good 12" woofer Quote: Originally Posted by danssoslow I won't try to take your opinion away from you. What I don't agree with is giving advice based solely on opinion. Ignorance isn't a bad thing, spreading it is. C'mon, you are basing Dayton's quality on an internet pic. If that isn't ignorant, then I don't know what ignorant is. BTW, when talking about "you get what you pay for", realize that Dayton is a large company that has been producing a very high quality product for many years. Ain't no magnet going to show that to you. Okay, but by the same logic kicker, alpine, mtx, pioneer, etc. are large companies that have been out for years but none of their subs are worthwhile either... they just advertise more than dayton. Between price, specs, and appearance none of the daytons recommended on here are even going to compare to his cvx's... and he is looking for an upgrade... Not to mention the single 4 ohm the daytons boast. That will only use half the output his amp is capable of and that is just pointless. In this application any dayton is especially a no win situation. I don't care if they have the cleanest sound reproduction out of any subs on the market they still wont have enough output, and other subs are plenty clean enough. I enjoy long semi-rants... understand there is no hostility here danssoslow
	[Reply w/Quote]

07-02-2009, 09:21 AM	#65
danssoslow NOS make light brighter! Age: 34 Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,146 Location: Louisville, KY User is: OffLine	Re: good 12" woofer No hostility here at all; none given, none taken. Have you heard of Adire? It's a defunct company, but produced many great subwoofers before deciding to close the doors. If you have, how would you rate the Shiva amongst these speakers?
	[Reply w/Quote]

07-02-2009, 06:13 PM	#66
old_skool_noma ... i dont know? Age: 21 Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 7,244 Location: Heath/Newark, OH User is: OffLine	Re: good 12" woofer Quote: Originally Posted by IdonthaveanS10 Okay, but by the same logic kicker, alpine, mtx, pioneer, etc. are large companies that have been out for years but none of their subs are worthwhile either... they just advertise more than dayton. Between price, specs, and appearance none of the daytons recommended on here are even going to compare to his cvx's... and he is looking for an upgrade... Not to mention the single 4 ohm the daytons boast. That will only use half the output his amp is capable of and that is just pointless. In this application any dayton is especially a no win situation. I don't care if they have the cleanest sound reproduction out of any subs on the market they still wont have enough output, and other subs are plenty clean enough. I enjoy long semi-rants... understand there is no hostility here danssoslow whats wrong with using only half the capable output? it makes the output that much cleaner, besides, 2x200 watts on my single 4 ohm 12" subs is more than enough low end for me most of the time (about twice as much actually) besides half the power is only 3 db theoretically and even in the real world even less because of thermal compression from more power to the voice coil so in actuality about 2-2.5 db, also i happen to like the look of the reference and titanic line from dayton, they have a nice clean look unlike most subwoofers out now that are cluttered with logos and strange looking baskets
	[Reply w/Quote]

07-02-2009, 11:39 PM	#67
oldskoolchevelle in the works Age: 20 Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 231 Location: Houston, Tx User is: OffLine	Re: good 12" woofer well i just got a buyer for my kicker 750.1 and both cvx... so now its time to make a decision...
	[Reply w/Quote]

07-03-2009, 01:29 AM	#68
IdonthaveanS10 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 254 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: good 12" woofer Hmm i have heard of adire but not enough to know squat Noma I guess I just like a setup to be loud, like really loud, and then it has to sound good as long as its loud. Chevelle... Sold the amp now you have a world of possibilities...
	[Reply w/Quote]

07-03-2009, 06:01 PM	#69
old_skool_noma ... i dont know? Age: 21 Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 7,244 Location: Heath/Newark, OH User is: OffLine	Re: good 12" woofer Quote: Originally Posted by IdonthaveanS10 Hmm i have heard of adire but not enough to know squat Noma I guess I just like a setup to be loud, like really loud, and then it has to sound good as long as its loud. Chevelle... Sold the amp now you have a world of possibilities... i like mine to be able to be loud when i want it to, but sound clean all the time the way mine sits when i have my crossover set for SPL, at 40hz it will almost run me out of the truck from cabin gain, the meter (termlab) said it was hitting 136.5 in the passenger kick with the seats flipped up, but id say it was louder than that in the drivers seat
	[Reply w/Quote]

07-03-2009, 08:29 PM	#70
IdonthaveanS10 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 254 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: good 12" woofer Thats not bad for.... one 12" ? I have no clue what you have lol. Im more of a 142.3 guy in a sedan, and its still not loud enough for me, so im giving up any sq(had a fi q 15 they definitely sound nice and are LOWWW) for just plain loud now...
	[Reply w/Quote]

07-03-2009, 11:26 PM	#71
old_skool_noma ... i dont know? Age: 21 Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 7,244 Location: Heath/Newark, OH User is: OffLine	Re: good 12" woofer Quote: Originally Posted by IdonthaveanS10 Thats not bad for.... one 12" ? I have no clue what you have lol. Im more of a 142.3 guy in a sedan, and its still not loud enough for me, so im giving up any sq(had a fi q 15 they definitely sound nice and are LOWWW) for just plain loud now... i actually have 2 12s getting 200rms each but im planning on getting some dayton HOs and giving them 600 each, it will only be turned up on a rare occasion, will I ever use that many watts, not hardly ever, but it is a LOT of headroom and I can use them for SPL on occasion
	[Reply w/Quote]