Teaching Fiberglass (part one and two)

[NickZigaitis]

After I finsh the sub box and all the painting of the interior pieces, I think I'm going to fiberglass the center arm rest and try some airbrushing on it. That might be Part 3 later down the road.

[NickZigaitis]

http://www.s10forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=201166&highlight=Fiberglassing+sc reen

Orangesonoma,


Here you go. Thanks

[BIGGERISBETTER]

Good call Brian. I dont normally bitch about anything, but given all the threads about " how do i fiberglass stuff and where do i find supplies" i figured the correct way ought to be saved. Should cut down on threads asking the same questions.

[NickZigaitis]

Quote: Originally Posted by BIGGERISBETTER

Good call Brian. I dont normally bitch about anything, but given all the threads about " how do i fiberglass stuff and where do i find supplies" i figured the correct way ought to be saved. Should cut down on threads asking the same questions.

Exaactly. Thanks

Brian (Orangsonoma),

Could you add the "Fiberglassing Supply Resource" thread also. Its got good info for those who can't get this stuff locally.



http://www.s10forum.com/forum/showth...ssing+su pply

[orangesonoma]

ok ill take care of that later...i have some shit i have to do ...ok

[NickZigaitis]

Quote: Originally Posted by orangesonoma

ok ill take care of that later...i have some shit i have to do ...ok

Cool.

Thanks

[hutchS-10]

def. a good thread man. I have done some stuff with fiberglass and this gives alot of goood info . so does the screen install thing not just applicationn specific but good info on fiberglassing anything ..Appreciate man keep it up

[NickZigaitis]

Quote: Originally Posted by hutchS-10

def. a good thread man. I have done some stuff with fiberglass and this gives alot of goood info . so does the screen install thing not just applicationn specific but good info on fiberglassing anything ..Appreciate man keep it up

Anytime. As I do more, I'll post more pics of various other items.

[NickZigaitis]

Update:


Here are some pictures of the almost finished product. The enclosure is painted but unfortunately like I've said in the past that surface prep is everything. Well I painted it and found a couple spots that I didn't notice with a magnafind glass so I've sanded it back down to reprep it and shoot it again. But I've got some pics of it before I did that, so you get the idea.

The amp compartment at the top, or amp rack, whatever you want to call it. hads been laid with a custom tinted Graphite formica. This area will also have a frame made to cover the amps with a Dark Grey Speaker frame fabric (much like the same fabric of your home enteryainment speakers and their fabric covered frames over the woofers. This frame will be hinged at the top with an actuator that will open up and expose the amps. I'll post more pics later when I get to that point.

But here is how it looks for now.

[cobra42988]

hey where can i get that stuff and what do i need and about how much is it all ?

[turbofire00]

is there a certain cloth u use or can i find it any fabric store. I am about to undergo a full interior mod and need all the help i can to get it right the first time. I love to do my own work and would take any hints from mistakes any onemade doing the dash and door panels or speker boxes.

[NickZigaitis]

Quote: Originally Posted by cobra42988

hey where can i get that stuff and what do i need and about how much is it all ?

If you are looking for quality stuff, which makes the process easier, read the Fiberglassing Resource Sticky I wrote. There you will find everything you need and the costs involved. They are a little more pricey than Walmart but the quality is so much better.

You can do the Walmart route. List of stuff you'll need:

Stretch fabric - sold by the square yard (Cost unknown)

Weave fiberglass - sold in the auto section of Walmart, by the 1 square yard, couple $$

Resin general purpose - sold at Home Depot by the quart, $13

Throw-a-way brushes - Walmart or HD, .89$ each (you need a bunch)

Epoxy - sold at a marine store, $$expensive (most expensive part)(BUT should be used in place of resin when structure is a property of the item.

____________________________________

Cost increases with the size of the item fiberglassed and the number of layers of fiberglass used. AT THE MINIMUM you should always double up the layer. Often, this won't be enough. Good fiberglassing calls for 4-5 or even more depending on the function of the item and whether it is structural or not.

[NickZigaitis]

Quote: Originally Posted by turbofire00

is there a certain cloth u use or can i find it any fabric store. I am about to undergo a full interior mod and need all the help i can to get it right the first time. I love to do my own work and would take any hints from mistakes any onemade doing the dash and door panels or speker boxes.

The fabric?, I assume you are referring to the stretch fabric. You are looking for something very strechy, thicker than T-shirt material, and definately not fleece.

Hint: or more like a mistake I made. Don't cop out and use a t-shirt material that is very thin just because it streches well. The resin, during curing, shrinks, which with a thin material will cause warping in much the same manor as welding too high a heat to a thin sheet metal. But, if this occurres depending on your project, you can use what is called pinching, by where you drive a screwed through the fiberglass to the structure behind it (if any) to pinch or draw the material down in an area to alleviate the warp some what and reduce the thickness of bondo applied to level the area of the warp.

[NickZigaitis]

Sorry, its been a while since I have posted updates on the sub box. Since the last photos, the box has been painted, the amp area had a custom dyed formica in laid for a very smooth finish and the amp were installed. Right now I'm in the process of wiring them up and trying to find good paths for laying the wire around these amps, especially since they are getting 4 guage wire.

[NickZigaitis]

Another update. Most of the wiring is done for the amp compartment area. 4 guage wiring was used to provide the least amount of resistance within the electrical systems. Notice the 4 fused D-block. Each fuse position was numbered for easy reference to which amp was affected in the event that a fuse blew. This will help with troubleshooting. Unfortunately it sort of looks spagetti-ish. I had to really work at routing the wiring because 4 guage wire is bendable but with such a cramped area it was a little difficult to map out the wiring and have it look uniform. I think I got it though.

This amp compartment area will be covered by a frame that is covered in speaker grill fabric. It is the same fabric used to cover the frames of your home entertainment speakers. The fabric I chose is not black like typically seen. Instead I found a dark grey fabric. This fabric frame will cover the amps from dust but be thin enought to allow the amps to breathe and stay somewhat cooler than using a different type of fabric.

The speaker grill fabric will also be used on the door panel's cushion top area. The rest of the plastic on the door will be painted just like the dash bezel and this woofer box. By double layering this fabric, it will not be able to be see-though but also reduces the likelihood of fraying or looking frazzled like tweed does over time. Doing this will help tie in all of the interior together and look more uniform as if it was a factory option from GM.











Let me know what you all think so far.

Thanks

[thomnjohn]

Damn! You do some really nice work.

[whitedime]

what a nightmare. lol nice job

[NickZigaitis]

Quote: Originally Posted by thomnjohn

Damn! You do some really nice work.

Thanks bro. I try. I really have to hand thanks over to this forum. I've never had such a resource for info and ideas at the tip of my fingers. Alot of my idea are a culmination of many ideas throughout the forum. I just put my own little spin on them.

Thanks

[NickZigaitis]

Quote: Originally Posted by whitedime

what a nightmare. lol nice job

Trying to bend the 4 guage wire in such a tight space was a bitch. Thats my you see looping of the wire to take stress of the bends and ultimately the connection and connection posts of the amps.

[pewter_dime_99]

im not sure if you mentioned this, but is this box for and x-cab or for a standard cab... it looks to me like it would fit in a reg cab...but i'm not so sure
thanks

[NickZigaitis]

Quote: Originally Posted by pewter_dime_99

im not sure if you mentioned this, but is this box for and x-cab or for a standard cab... it looks to me like it would fit in a reg cab...but i'm not so sure
thanks

Box is for a regular cab. I think I might have tried a little more wild of a configuration if I had the extra room an extended cab offers.

[NickZigaitis]

More update photos. Let me have your opinions.




These two are of the Dash pods I made for a set of Audiobahn components.
Its utlizing the oem speaker grill as a base to ensure perfect fit with the existing hole in the dash. Then a platform was made and fiberglass was laid.





This is one of the pillar pod graphed into the pillar cowl using fiberglass. The seams of the pod are now gone so the whole pillar cowl and pod look as though one solid piece from the factory.



You may have seen the few pics I've shown of the AC Controls put into the glove box. However, these are some photos of it now installed. Wiring harnesses were extended 1 foot for clearance and reduction of future chaffing issue that may arise.





These pics are an update of the sub enclosure. They demonstrate fitment of the box in a mostly finished configuration for a regular cab S10. Its not a permenant install yet. The rear pillar cowls, seatbelt mount covers, and some more wiring need to be complete before it is bolted to the cab.







The seat can be pushed as far back as the woofers extend almost, to allow more room. But, its still going to be closer than most might like. I don't mind though cause I'm a short bastard anyway, 5'7".

Enjoy or use them as ideas for your ride.

[NickZigaitis]

Tell me what you guys think.

What would you all have liked to have seen done differently?

Any ideas for a center console before I start crack'n on the fiberglass again?

Comments are appreciated.

[pewter_dime_99]

man i love it all

[NickZigaitis]

Another Fiberglassing Bezel Class


Fixing Previous Fiberglassing Error

I was contacted and contracted to help a fellow member out with his dash bezel. I have gotten permission from him to post pictures of his build up and explain some Do's and Don't(s) with fiberglassing.

I have said in the past that fiberglassing is forgiveable. So throughout the next couple weeks we'll tackle some very common errors that most might make and ways to avoid and or fix them if made.

So, lets get started.

The object here is to do a complete duplicate of the dash screen install previously shown in this thread from a dash bezel fiberglassing attempt gone slightly arye. I give the owner a 6.5 out of 10 on his attempt. But its cool cause its fix-able.

First things first. PROTECT WHAT YOU KNOW YOU CAN NOT FIX!!! i.e. the screen






The screen's power wire was cut by the owner to I guess shorten the length, however, the patch or connection made was by tristing the wires together. While this works. Its not proper. Proper connections should always involve soldering the wire and heat shrinking both leads and then heatshirnking all the leads to encase them. We'll come back to that later.

Next, Identify whats wrongs, whats not working and what to do to fix it. Like I have said in the past. Its 95% planning and a little bit of fiberglass. Don't be afraid to throughly inspect your part and make notes on them to remind you what needs fixing.

These pictures show you how I recieved the bezel.










Notice the exessive resin build up that ran over into areas not intended. Also, notice the characteristic markings of a power sanders use. most of the rounded edges and flowing curves of the oem piece have been flattened

Lets identify what needas to be done and make notes. Look very closely at the items and write on it where you have seen errors. The next couple of photos will show you errors that I have seen and small notes to myself on what needs to be done.







Back to planning. You need to develope a plan for yourself as a step by step of what will need to be done. Here is the one I came up with for this piece.

*Sand the entire bezel and try to remove as much resin that ran over into other areas.

*Sand as much of the flat spots out of the bezel and try to re-radius them.

*Cut the duct work for the driver's side AC vent off. It is still attached and no longer needed.

*Reinforce fiberglass the existing patch on the AC vent and gusset it.

*mark the hole to be cut for new main block off plate (Radio and screen area)

*Cut hole for new plate and epoxy in new filler plate. Gusset the filler plate with fiberglass

*Cut holes in filler plate for screen bezel and radio bezel

*Epoxy in screen bezel and radio bezel and gusset with fiberglass

*Make frame for screen and epoxy on

*strech fabric

*Epoxy fiberglass

*Bondo and surface level entire bezel

these are steps to get me on track. They are small goals for progress and realistically, this bezel could be mostly done minus the bondo, by Sunday afternoon.

Next mark the hole to be cut for the new filler plate. I used a L-shaped straight edge to mark lines and then masked the area off and painted it primer black to easily identify what needed to be cut.

The area in black will be removed and new filler panel will fill this area.





Notice the paper in the back ground. That is my list of areas to tackle on this project. You should have this list too.


Check back Monday, Nov. 14th for update photos of the progress of this weekend.

Thanks

[NickZigaitis]

Okay well alot got done this weekend. I have plenty of photos for you all explaining areas of interest and some things found along the way that aren't good techniques for fiberglassing.

So here we go.



Notice in this photo the use of carboard. Carboard was used as a filler panel when laying the fiberglass originally. It was also used in blocking off the AC vent on the driver's side. This is a big no-no and I'll explain. The owner tried the sandwich technique. This is a very viable technigue to have tried and I commend the owner on doing it. However, the choice in material to use as the sandwich was incorrect. Items such as medium density foam, wood (as used here) or even anoth fiberglass filler are the best to use. These material have been tried and true in making extremely strong piece when fiberglass is layed on either side of it. However, filler panels such as carboard doo not allow proper penetration of the resin. In a sense, the fiberglass on one side penetrates only that side and vice versa of the fiberglass laidf on the other side. The strength of the two do not meet or do not have something strng between them bonding the two together. In this example, you end up with one layer floating over the other. How does it float? It floats on the luever core of the carboard, which can crush under pressure. Because the carboard will give and not the fiberglass, the fiberglass panel will crack at the seams. The is exactly what happened with the AC vent is you refer back to the previous picture shown you'll see a long crack following the filler plate closest to the curved hood over the guages.



Here is a prime example of resin startvation. Not enough resin was applied during the initial application of the fiberglass. The results of this are the frosty appearance of the fiberglass. Always be looking for this appearance when laying fiberglass resin to ensure you have proper penetration. When applying fiberglass, regardless of weight fiberglass, the glass should look opaque and somewhat see through.

Because of the inadequate resin applied causing stavation you get this:



Threads of the fiberglass physically pulled from where it was laid.

Because the AC vent is no longer used, ther is no longer a need for the ducting. This will be cut off which will also simplify installing the bezel when completed.



We'll address the filler plate underneath it later.



The hole was cut for the filler plate.



Here the filler plate is being epoxied in. Because of the slight curve of the bezel, the upper half was glue and then the lower half was pulled down and glued.



After careful measurement of the screen's mount size and radio mount, the areas were masked off and then dusted with black primer to mark them. Then they were cut out.



Make a sketch of the wood frame to be used for the 3D effect of the screen on a counter top. Draw diagonal lines through the corner. The diagonal lines will help to guide you when cutting the bologne cuts in the wood.

[NickZigaitis]

Properly secure the wood sides to the counter top folloing the drawn jig of the frame and then carefully epoxy the sides together but make sure you don't get crazy with the epoxy and glue them to the countertop.



Then epoxy into the filler plate the screen's mounting bezel and the wood frame over top it. Also epoxy in the radio mount. Notice the fiberglass strips. These strips will be used WITH epoxy, to gusset all the joints of these items to the filler plate as will as fiberglassing the rest of the areas of the filler plate to complete the sandwich.



When structure is involved, try to use epoxy only. The resulting strength will be far more superior than that of resin.

The lines in this picture are marking for me as a reference point, what areas will be gussetted with 3 oz fiberglass.



For structural purposes, a 10oz fiberglass aircraft grade was used for the cd player mount. T