my first s10 sas

[W.I.D.T.O]

hey everybody so im kind of new to solid axle swaps.i was planing on doing one to my 93 but i found this one for sale for 800 bucks(the guy didnt know what he had ) wich already had one done to it.the guy i bought it from owns a towing company and he had repoed it or something.anyway he knew nothing about it.so i was gonna post some pics and ask if anybody knows what kind of axles i have under it(im thinking jeep wagoneer).and if anybody knows how i can figure out the gear ratios.there both 6 lugs, front disc, rear drum.thanks for the help.

front axle


rear axle

[DieselS10]

Good find and welcome aboard.

I believe your right they do look like they are from a Jeep, probably a 1980 to 1986 Wagoner or full-sized Cherokee. It's a Dana 44 front with an AMC 20 rear.

The easiest way to check the gears without pulling a cover is to:
Jack on tire up, put it in nuetral, mark that raised tire at the ground, mark the pinion yoke and the housing at the same spot and turn that tire 2 revolutions while counting how many times the pinion spins.

I'm not that familiar with the Waggy gear ratios or I would tell what your options would be, but the Waggy axle I used to run in mine came with 3.31's which would get you 3 & 1/3 turns of the pinion yoke. 4.10's would be just over 4 turns, etc.


Edit: I forgot to mention that if it has a limited slip you will only turn the tire one revolution, but you will have to raise both rear tires.
To tell if has a limited slip raise both tires and spin one, if the other tire spins the opposite direction it has an open diff, if it spins the same way it's a limited slip.

[96superflow]

the stock ratios of a waggy were the 3.31s and i believe its 2.73 is the other one they come stock with. Great find!!!! same axles i have in my wagoneer!!!! ha

[jwglover]

looks like a nice clean rig,

[W.I.D.T.O]

now that you mention the 3.31 gearing.on the outer edge of the front diff cover there was some numbers that were kind of hard to read but i did make out the numbers 331.but i thought it it looked like it was stamped 3-31 not 3.31.and thanks for the identification diesel.i havnt heard of the amc 20.it is a good find but the 4.3 smokes preaty good.i thought it would be just the valve seals but i pulled the spark plug on a cylinder that wasnt firing and it was completley caked in oil so it looks like the valve seals are completly done or i need new rings.so im considering just a v8 swap.im thinking the dana 44 would hold up to the power alright but ive never heard of the amc 20.do you think they could take it?

[jwglover]

dana 20 should be good for 35s or so,
is yours the vortec engine or throttle body ? mine is the vortec and runs great and the engine might be up for sale shortly (engine not the rig )

old rule of thumb, if the engine smokes and the plugs are clean , then you have valve/head problems. dirty plugs you have ring problem.

[DieselS10]

Quote: Originally Posted by jwglover

dana 20 should be good for 35s or so,
is yours the vortec engine or throttle body ? mine is the vortec and runs great and the engine might be up for sale shortly (engine not the rig )

old rule of thumb, if the engine smokes and the plugs are clean , then you have valve/head problems. dirty plugs you have ring problem.

Soooooo, whats in store for the Blazer?

[DieselS10]

W.I.D.T.O., What size tires are on that thing?

[W.I.D.T.O]

i dont even know if im gonna run 35s its got 32/11.50 on it now.but ive got some 33/12.50s on my tahoe.and i might as well ask does anybody know if the lug pattern on my tahoe is the same as the lug patern that the jeep axles have?its not the vortech just the tbi.my parents old car is a 93 astro van that they dont drive anymore that has a vortech that i was thinking of swaping in to it.but it has a disgusting amount of miles on it and it was never treated that good.but if i were to pull it id do a full rebuild and build it up anyway.

[DieselS10]

As far as I know all 6 lugs are the same except for the 1st gen Dodge Durango's.

[W.I.D.T.O]

ya thats what i thought but there was alot of cars made before i was born .jwglover where are you anyway with that vortech?and can you use a vortech block and heads with the a tbi setup?

[wrekd]

Damn good find for $800!! The AMC 20 is a pretty stout axle. The only thing I've ever heard bad about them are weak axle tubes and I THINK they had 2 piece shafts or something. Nothing that an axle truss and a set of aftermarket shafts can't fix though.


x2 on the 6 lug thing.....AFAIK they're all the same except for Durangos/Dakotas<<< They have a real small 6 lug pattern.

[DieselS10]

Quote: Originally Posted by W.I.D.T.O

ya thats what i thought but there was alot of cars made before i was born .jwglover where are you anyway with that vortech?and can you use a vortech block and heads with the a tbi setup?

I'm thinkin Topeka, KS. Somewhere right in there.

[W.I.D.T.O]

im happy i found it but it needs work.its smokes,the clutch is either going or just being weird.and i havnt had a chance to drive it more than half a mile at less than 40mph so i dont realy know what will happen when it actualy starts moving

but i did go over a set of railroad tracks and it has horrible bump steer

[jonb8]

Quote: Originally Posted by W.I.D.T.O

i dont even know if im gonna run 35s its got 32/11.50 on it now.but ive got some 33/12.50s on my tahoe.and i might as well ask does anybody know if the lug pattern on my tahoe is the same as the lug patern that the jeep axles have?its not the vortech just the tbi.my parents old car is a 93 astro van that they dont drive anymore that has a vortech that i was thinking of swaping in to it.but it has a disgusting amount of miles on it and it was never treated that good.but if i were to pull it id do a full rebuild and build it up anyway.

Lug pattern should be the same but the center hole won't be large enough to slide over your front hubs. I've heard a few guys have used a bur grinder to ream the hole out bigger.

[DieselS10]

Quote: Originally Posted by W.I.D.T.O

but i did go over a set of railroad tracks and it has horrible bump steer

Welcome to the wonderful world of leaf springs and cross-over steering.

[W.I.D.T.O]

i think they might fit cause i bought them off my buddy who has a toyota and they have quite a bit bigger hub right?and i need to fab up a steering stabalizer.i bet theres about a million threads about how to do it in this forum.

[DieselS10]

A steering stabilizer won't help bumpsteer.

You will need to make the drag-link more parallel to the axle.

[W.I.D.T.O]

thus i need a drop pitman arm right?so i should figure out how much lift over stock i am and go from there on how big of a drop pitman arm i should get.and you can kind of see my drag link in one of my pics above.shoudnt it be straight and not bent.well at least straighter?

[DieselS10]

Yeah, start with a drop pitman. It is probably bent to miss the right spring pack when you turn right.

[bubbagt57]

looks like what diesels truck used to be

[W.I.D.T.O]

how big of a drop do you think i need?and i thought i read somewhere that you could find one from a diferent vehicle that fits and gives you the drop you need?and im gonna need a new drag link right?

[96superflow]

You should be good with throwing a 350 in it or so. The waggy came stock with a 360, even thou they cut its horsepower and torque ratings (just bs in my opinion, mine runs like a top). Those axles should handle 35s pretty easily. i would regear the axles too.

[96superflow]

oh and the bolt patterns are the same. 6x5.5

[W.I.D.T.O]

ya just driving the little bit i did makes me wanna change the gears.any sugetsion for the gearing if im running 33s?my tahoe has 3.73s and it does great with them but its still a completley diferent truck.does 4.10s sound to low for a truck that im gonna be throwing my quad in the back and driving an hour to the coast?

[96superflow]

thats what ill be running to start with on my sas. 4.10s. With 33s they should be perfect. If your going to wheel it alot or going with a larger diameter tire later, i would only regear once. IMO if you were going to fun 35's (same thing im wanting to do) i would gear it to 4.88s. wait and you have a tahoe? dang almost identical to what i have. haha

[W.I.D.T.O]

ya im with you on re-gearing only one.would 4.88s be to low for long trips.like i said its probly gonna haul my quad around.and ya were preaty close but i have an older tahoe its a 1996



anyway i got another question.so i was checking some stuff out on my s10 when i notice this



the bolts that hold my front drive line to my front diff were all loose.i didnt think much of it just glad that i saw it before something bad happened.but when i went to tighten them i realized that the nuts are actualy hiting the diffs input shaft and they wont tighten anymore.just wondering if anybody had any sugestions.i was thinking of grinding down the metal abit so i can tighten them all the way.

[96superflow]

Thats a nice looking tahoe!!! i wanted that body style, and an extra set of doors haha, just couldn't find one.

But i think i would look at those u-joints a little more closely. almost looks like there is a sleeve around the bearing cap and if i were you i would change it out. Thats just precautionary thou, just looks funny to me. Im not sure on the grinding down part either, they had to be able to tighten them from the factory, but im not quite sure how. If i were home i would look at my waggy front end and tell ya. I dont see any harm in grinding it.

As far as the 4.88s go, it really all depends. If they keep your engine in the peak torque and horsepower zone allowing it to work easily, then you probably will get good mileage out of it. I just wouldn't try and do like 80 with it either. ha

[W.I.D.T.O]

thanks.ya i dont under stand why they wouldnt fit.its like the nuts to big haha.ya ill go look at that u joint now that you mention it it does look funny.if you do happen to be under your waggy anytime soon take a look at the front drive shaft for me.i have bigger problems any way i went out to start it up and drive it around the block and it didnt start.it started ran for 4 seconds and shut off.then it wouldnt start after that.if i put gas in the intake it does the same thing runs for 4 seconds somethimes longer but always shuts off.probly a fuel pump.its my curse every rig i seem to get the fuel pump dies in it.

[pjg1173]

I have 4.88 in my 93 s10 with 35's 60 mph i'm running about 2100-2200 RPM in overdrive. The truck will do 80 and sustain staying below 2700 RPM. The fun part is even with a 4.3 with 192k miles it still will take a fullsize truck off the line (well the first 30 feet at least)

[pjg1173]

almost forgot to add 4.3 vortec and 4.3 tbi blocks are the same. If im not mistaken the vortec block is milled for a roller cam.

[96superflow]

i hear ya on the curse part. I will take a look at it, of course i wont be back till next weekend, but ill let ya know. Fuel pumps are fun!!!!!

[W.I.D.T.O]

so i feel pretty stupid right now.the problem with my s10 starting was(drum role please).it was out of gas .my gas gauge is off so i dont feel like a complete idiot haha.
but i finally got a chance to really drive it.it runs pretty good except it looks like a have a smoke machine hooked up underneath my truck some times.

[96superflow]

thats good man!!!! Look for leaks somewhere, if its got the oil filter relocation stuff (came stock) check it for the leak. If it is, you can change it to the block mounted oil filter. I dont know the part number, but its on here somewhere. They are prone to leaks, and mounting it back on the block cuts out all that crap. Then use some restor, it worked wonders in my dads 93 s10 with the 4.3 when my brother dogged the sh*t out of it and started the chain reaction of smokin and tearing sh*t up.

[W.I.D.T.O]

i ment smoking from the tailpipe.im pretty sure the engine is on its last leg.i drove it about 30 minutes and im pretty sure it fouled another plug in that short time.so i definatly need to start building up the 350 i have,rebuild the 4.3 in it or put a diferent 4.3 in it.

[DieselS10]

Quote: Originally Posted by W.I.D.T.O

i ment smoking from the tailpipe.im pretty sure the engine is on its last leg.i drove it about 30 minutes and im pretty sure it fouled another plug in that short time.so i definatly need to start building up the 350 i have.

Fixed it for you.

[W.I.D.T.O]

haha thanks diesel.i guess i just needed a little pushing to make my decision.would you think keeping the 5 speed in it would be easier or just swap in like a 700r4?

[DieselS10]

That ones up to you, just use which ever you prefer. I prefer an auto because I don't like having to work the clutch while I'm wheeling.

[W.I.D.T.O]

i really dont have a preference.im really just thinking which would be easier.does anybody know if the pressure plate is the same on the 350 and the 4.3 cause thats the only part i dont know.i was just thinking of running a 700r4 and the stock tcase should bolt up to it right?

[DieselS10]

Your stock case should bolt up with the factory S10 adapter. My 207 that was bolted to my factory 4 speed bolted right up to a 4L60E from a full-size.

I can't help you with the pressure plate, but I'm sure you could get it to work.

[W.I.D.T.O]

automatic sounds the easiest.its probably better suited for my style of wheeling anyway.plus my other s10 needs a new 5 speed tranny.might as well kill 2 birds with one stone.and i can find acouple v8 conversion kits online but i cant seem to find just the motor mounts that all i really want.anybody know where i can get them or who makes them?

[tfpets]

Quote: Originally Posted by W.I.T.D.O.;

anyway i got another question.so i was checking some stuff out on my s10 when i notice this



the bolts that hold my front drive line to my front diff were all loose.i didnt think much of it just glad that i saw it before something bad happened.but when i went to tighten them i realized that the nuts are actualy hiting the diffs input shaft and they wont tighten anymore.just wondering if anybody had any sugestions.i was thinking of grinding down the metal abit so i can tighten them all the way.

I would bet that those bolts are suppose to thread into the yoke...It looks like someone may have stripped out the threads and attempted to put bolts all of the way through with nuts on the back!?

[W.I.D.T.O]

ya i talked to my mechanic and he said that if it is a jeep axle they either used these horseshoe like bands to hold it in or it does just thread into the yoke.i havnt driven it so im not real worried of it falling out but i need to fix it before i decide to take it out at all.

[W.I.D.T.O]

ok so i was at my shop working on some other projects that i have and this random guy shows up and says that he likes my s10.so we talking about it for alittle and he asked if it was for sell.i hadn't thought about selling it so i asked him what his offer was.he says hell give me 1400 the way it sits.even though it smokes.id be making 600 on it and i havnt even done anything to it.just wanted your guys opinion.600 bucks wont sas my other s10 and thats what id want to do to it.

[96superflow]

hmmm. Thats really up to you. Personally the ext. cab 4wd s10s are few and far between where im at. I have a hard time selling anything, i usually just keep buying! ha. if it were me i would probably keep it.

[W.I.D.T.O]

ya im with you superflow.im gonna keep it.hell if i got an offer with out even trying.i can sell it down the road later.

[W.I.D.T.O]

why would i get rid of it when i have this to put in it


haha i wish .no its being saved for my baby
1990 454 ss truck

[96superflow]

^^ Nice Truck Man!!!!!!!

[W.I.D.T.O]

it definatly aint no crawler but i thought i might as well see what it could do.i probably could have gone more but i realized my shocks were completely compresed









o and i got a 350 for it.my uncle gave me one.he said that he felt bad for me because of how much it smoked .so now i need to get an engine stand so i can start building it up.i know that there should never be a limit to horsepower and torque but does anybody have any experience with abusing these axles?

[DieselS10]

It depends on what your doing with it. On the street or in the mud will be better than in the rocks. Open diffs will be safer than lockers. And tire size has a ton to do with it, if you stay around 35-36's or smaller I think you will be fairly safe with a lot of hp.

I broke my front axle like that, but I was rock crawling some fairly nasty stuff with 36's and a 350.