89 SFA buildup for rocks

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by greencactus3

oh sorry. 2wd

the desired geometry might be different from what i am building, but why not link it?

[greencactus3]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

the desired geometry might be different from what i am building, but why not link it?

yup itll be a bit different, and im definitly working on the budget to link it dont worry lol

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by greencactus3

yup itll be a bit different, and im definitly working on the budget to link it dont worry lol

im running a 3 link with panhard, i dont know if that works well for what you want though. what are your plans?

[greencactus3]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

im running a 3 link with panhard, i dont know if that works well for what you want though. what are your plans?

plan #1. make money so i can afford it
after that, im still just learning about race suspension systems, but as its still gonna be my daily truck for a lot longer, im probably gonna ignore all the race sus theory, and go with the bulletproof SD 3link. but i havent decided on the spring/shocks setup yet.

[Tim99Zr2]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

correct, out of round tube vs square tube.

my front will be square, but i may drive this on the street a bit, so i want to at least try and make the rear balance as well as i can in my garage. since i have a rear slip yoke, i dont need the added slip square tube provides. as for the round material, probably 3" or 3.5" sch.40 pipe. its close to .25 thick i believe.

yes, its approx. a quarter inch thick.

[19914x4blazer]

no update. been busy or something?

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by 19914x4blazer

no update. been busy or something?

ive been working on programming stuff. i still need to make a few parts before i can really bring everything together.

[19914x4blazer]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

ive been working on programming stuff. i still need to make a few parts before i can really bring everything together.

o OK i just saw this fall to the back and was wondering what happen

[Bad94]

Are you really going to weld that bracket to the pumkin housing?

I sure the hell hope not.

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bad94

Are you really going to weld that bracket to the pumkin housing?

I sure the hell hope not.

i am, whats it to you?

[NC4x4]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bad94

Are you really going to weld that bracket to the pumkin housing?

I sure the hell hope not.

It won't hurt as long as he knows how to properly weld to cast iron ASSUMING IT IS (but that isn't all axles). Same deal with radius arms, but with 1/2 of the bracket being welded to the axle tubes, it's a little less of an issue.

Could just as well be cast steel, forged iron, etc., but I believe (most likely) it is in fact cast iron. I'm not really positive on all housings to be honest.

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by NC4x4

It won't hurt as long as he knows how to properly weld to cast iron ASSUMING IT IS (but that isn't all axles). Same deal with radius arms, but with 1/2 of the bracket being welded to the axle tubes, it's a little less of an issue.

Could just as well be cast steel, forged iron, etc., but I believe (most likely) it is in fact cast iron. I'm not really positive on all housings to be honest.

my front 44 is cast steel, for sure. the rear 14b is cast iron. i am going to mig the front, and weld the rear with ni99 rod.

[NC4x4]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

my front 44 is cast steel, for sure. the rear 14b is cast iron. i am going to mig the front, and weld the rear with ni99 rod.

Almost all the Dana 44 fronts I have looked into have been cast iron, but like I said, I don't know for sure about yours or mine.

For strength reasons you definitely need to read up on the pre- and post-heating needs to weld it. I have seen some ugly cracked drivetrain pieces before due to welding it like usual. At least for the rear anyway, with the assumption that the front is cast steel.

[Tim99Zr2]

Quote: Originally Posted by NC4x4

Almost all the Dana 44 fronts I have looked into have been cast iron, but like I said, I don't know for sure about yours or mine.

For strength reasons you definitely need to read up on the pre- and post-heating needs to weld it. I have seen some ugly cracked drivetrain pieces before due to welding it like usual. At least for the rear anyway, with the assumption that the front is cast steel.

werd. on pre and post heat.

i hate welding cast shit
and if you dont know, heat up the entire axle.

[Donahue]

im way ahead of you guys, i know all about it. the plans include preheat, and post cool, all that. i can say that at least my d44 is cast steel. i did a few test on it to make sure. the rear is cast iron though, so i will still have to arc weld it. and dont worry, im a good welder

[Tim99Zr2]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

im way ahead of you guys, i know all about it. the plans include preheat, and post cool, all that. i can say that at least my d44 is cast steel. i did a few test on it to make sure. the rear is cast iron though, so i will still have to arc weld it. and dont worry, im a good welder

just watchin out for ya!!

[NC4x4]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

im way ahead of you guys, i know all about it. the plans include preheat, and post cool, all that. i can say that at least my d44 is cast steel. i did a few test on it to make sure. the rear is cast iron though, so i will still have to arc weld it. and dont worry, im a good welder

My brother is one of the best welders I know, and even he/I would be leery about welding that without having done it before.

I would go find some pictures that I know I've seen, but I'm going to use the lazy card on this one.

[DieselS10]

I just found your build thread. You do very nice work! It's good to see something being built that isn't a hacked up turd! The only thing I wanted to comment on was your decision to put the steering behind the axle, it screws up what I believe is called the "Ackerman angle" and causes the tires to squeal and push badly when turned much past half way to lock in either direction. I've experienced this with my dad's '48 Studebaker when we changed the front axle in it and converted it to rear steer (then changed it right back). It didn't effect driveability at all, it just wouldn't turn very sharp at all and pushed and squealed badly. I didn't know if you had considered this so I just wanted to mention it to possibly prevent a headache down the road.

[Tim99Zr2]

well i think he said his rig is going to be on the trailor alot. i dont know if he is going to run it on the street or not.

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by DieselS10

I just found your build thread. You do very nice work! It's good to see something being built that isn't a hacked up turd! The only thing I wanted to comment on was your decision to put the steering behind the axle, it screws up what I believe is called the "Ackerman angle" and causes the tires to squeal and push badly when turned much past half way to lock in either direction. I've experienced this with my dad's '48 Studebaker when we changed the front axle in it and converted it to rear steer (then changed it right back). It didn't effect driveability at all, it just wouldn't turn very sharp at all and pushed and squealed badly. I didn't know if you had considered this so I just wanted to mention it to possibly prevent a headache down the road.

yeah, im aware of the ackerman being off. its really not something i am that concerned with, and it wont be off by that much anyways. i think the benefits outweigh the risks. but really, as with all the stuff on my truck, if i dont like it then i will change it. i dont consider anything set in stone.

[DieselS10]

Cool, keep the pictures coming!!

[Tim99Zr2]

[Donahue]

i totally need to finish this project.

[Tim99Zr2]

you totally do

[Donahue]

so i think there might be a change of plan for this. i was feeling tonight at work like i should not link it in the front, but run my sfa kit on this truck with leafs instead of that other blazer we have. i figure if im going to be "testing" the kit, may as well be on my truck. also the reason i wanted to 3 link the rear was because the front was going to be 3 linked, now i am thinking i might 4 link it, and maybe develop a 4 link kit in the process. i just hope i can run my axle as close to as far forward as i wanted to with coils in the front. i might not be able to, it it will probably cut my WB down a bit, i was going for 112" before.

[Baggey22]

so if you're gonna leaf your white "Blazer" what will happen with the black one?

[GeorgesBlazah]

Updates...now!

[Tim99Zr2]

holy hell.. donahue grave dug his own thread!!! haha.

for the shit you do, wouldnt links be better? look how the front cross member / springs hang down in front of the frame on mine, wouldnt that be bad for rocks? it may kill your approach angle compared to a 3-4link & coils

[Donahue]

it will diminish my approach angle considering i was going to have 90* with coils. coils would probably flex better too, but i think i will have enough in that department. i was actually thinking about running leafs in the front because they are more stable that coils, and it tends to work out to where you dont kill your steering linkage quite as much. but i dont think leafs in the front is too much of a hindrance, ive seen quite a few leaved trucks to quite well in the rocks i like. plus, you guys have seen how i drive, this would probably be the best test for my kit, and might make it come out sooner.

the black blazer might be used to make the coil sfa kit using the ford axle.

[pvfjr]

Wow, I'm blown away. You seemed pretty excited about the unique ideas you had for this thing. I would think you would want the coils and doubler in the same truck, so you can have one "hardcore" S10, and a somewhat milder one with leaves and stock drivetrain for the testing of the kit. I can see how you'd want to just get the kit going first though. Is there any way you can move yours to the side for now and just bust out the black one real quick? I'd be a little sad to see your dream trail rig die before it came to life. Tim did his SAS in a day right? I think we could bust out the black one pretty easy, I'll help if you need it. Just feed me.

[Tim99Zr2]

4 12+ hour days. and some change. haha

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by pvfjr

Wow, I'm blown away. You seemed pretty excited about the unique ideas you had for this thing. I would think you would want the coils and doubler in the same truck, so you can have one "hardcore" S10, and a somewhat milder one with leaves and stock drivetrain for the testing of the kit. I can see how you'd want to just get the kit going first though. Is there any way you can move yours to the side for now and just bust out the black one real quick? I'd be a little sad to see your dream trail rig die before it came to life. Tim did his SAS in a day right? I think we could bust out the black one pretty easy, I'll help if you need it. Just feed me.

dont get me wrong, this is not be a "somewhat milder" build. it will still have the doubler, still have everything, reverse steering, etc. the only thing that is changing in my mind is the choice of leafs over coils in the front. the rear will still be coils. i figure, why not put it to the real test, and use it all the time rather than just when i want to bring out "the other truck". i look at it this way, i want to abuse it so i can put my name behind it, but at the same time i would rather be driving my own truck. so why not kill two birds with one stone. this way, i can take my s10 on the rubicon this year, and the test vehicle, and they both will be driven (cause they will be the same truck!). it only makes sense that i should actually use what i make, and so i dont feel like "im above leafs". ive seen what your truck does with leafs, i know it will work very well. and i am building this to be abused, i dont want to have a disclaimer that says you shouldnt take it off road because what would the point be?

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by pvfjr

Wow, I'm blown away. You seemed pretty excited about the unique ideas you had for this thing. I would think you would want the coils and doubler in the same truck, so you can have one "hardcore" S10, and a somewhat milder one with leaves and stock drivetrain for the testing of the kit. I can see how you'd want to just get the kit going first though. Is there any way you can move yours to the side for now and just bust out the black one real quick? I'd be a little sad to see your dream trail rig die before it came to life. Tim did his SAS in a day right? I think we could bust out the black one pretty easy, I'll help if you need it. Just feed me.

also, to admit it, i wanted coils probably because i was stubborn. i dont really have a "dream trail rig" and you of all people should know how often my mind changes.

[pvfjr]

Yeah, my leaves work good, but I was hoping your coils would be better. Or that they wouldn't be, and I could make fun of you for wasting all your effort. Either way, I was just kinda looking forward to seeing you do something different, and your approach angle would have been sick. It does seem like a good idea to combine the trucks into one though, in the long run. So what does your dad think about all this? No more instant trail rig for him. I guess he could always go back to promising the black one to three people and putting it on craigslist at the same time.

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by pvfjr

Yeah, my leaves work good, but I was hoping your coils would be better. Or that they wouldn't be, and I could make fun of you for wasting all your effort. Either way, I was just kinda looking forward to seeing you do something different, and your approach angle would have been sick. It does seem like a good idea to combine the trucks into one though, in the long run. So what does your dad think about all this? No more instant trail rig for him. I guess he could always go back to promising the black one to three people and putting it on craigslist at the same time.

the black one is completely ours, dad gave it to us to keep. still undecided on the leaves though, it looks like both might make it to the rubicon

[project87sdime]

you can always use my blazer as a tester for the kit ha ha

[Donahue]

ive all but decided on it, now i just have to find my springs.

[project87sdime]

i ment to take a pic of how close the shackles are to the tow reciever but i forgot you want a pic or a measurment?

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by project87sdime

i ment to take a pic of how close the shackles are to the tow reciever but i forgot you want a pic or a measurment?

a pic will do.

[project87sdime]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

a pic will do.

both lol

[Donahue]

a little update. i picked up some springs today from the junk yard. from what ive read, these were the ones i have been looking for. they are from a 98 dodge dakota. after getting them home, i compared them to the springs i was using to mock up with, rears from an 88 f150 (4wd). the appear to be very similar, they are the same length, and have the same free arch. the ford springs however are 3" wide verse the 2.5" of the dodge springs. the dodge springs also have the pin farther forward, but only 1 inch. then i compared the spring rates by standing on them and jumping. i put them side by side, and had one leg on each. then i would jump with my weight on just one leg, then the other to try and give them the same feeling. i can say the ford springs are noticeably softer. the ford springs are also 3+1 leaves verse the 4+1 of the dodge springs. this is a hard decision now, i was under the impression that the dodge springs were going to be way better than the ones i had laying in my back yard this whole time. but i got them for a decent deal, so they will not go to waste. i was expecting the center pin to be further forward, apparently people on the internet dont know how to work a tape measure correctly. the dodge springs are the ones that look less rusty and have the shackles still attached. btw, if you click on the pics you can see the bigger size.




i also snapped a few pics of my crossmember tacked up and in place. i put the winch on to check the clearance between it and where the core support would be (there is a piece of pipe welded to the frame that has the same clearance as the core support)

[Tim99Zr2]

holy hell you did something!!

haha, nice to see progress! i need to find myself a new set of front springs. how long are the dodge ones? maybe i could use them?

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tim99Zr2

holy hell you did something!!

haha, nice to see progress! i need to find myself a new set of front springs. how long are the dodge ones? maybe i could use them?

both sets are 56-57" long, but they have offset pins.

[Tim99Zr2]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

both sets are 56-57" long, but they have offset pins.

hm i guess that doesnt help cause i forget how long mine are. i think 56?

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tim99Zr2

hm i guess that doesnt help cause i forget how long mine are. i think 56?

i think i measured them at 55", but with a centered pin

[Tim99Zr2]

ok, i dont think the centered pin or not matters.. it will just move the axle further foward which wont be a bad thing.

im pming you. i dont want to whore your thread

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tim99Zr2

ok, i dont think the centered pin or not matters.. it will just move the axle further foward which wont be a bad thing.

im pming you. i dont want to whore your thread

i dont mind too much. with that crossmember where it is, the ford spring gives me 5" forward of stock for my axle, before i add the spring perch. the dodge will give me roughly 6" forward. that plus the 1.5" in my perch should equal about 7.5" forward of stock (based on a axle centerline to trans crossmember bolt measurement i found).

[Tim99Zr2]

so your going to have to run the astro box i think?

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tim99Zr2

so your going to have to run the astro box i think?

for sure, but i am going to run it with the pitman arm facing backwards.

[Tim99Zr2]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

for sure, but i am going to run it with the pitman arm facing backwards.

normally they face foward?