89 SFA buildup for rocks

[02ZQ]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

yep, pretty much all of the above. i am using the same spring we used on my brothers sami

Man I like that,looks like it would be fun as hell to wheel.

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by 02ZQ

Man I like that,looks like it would be fun as hell to wheel.

yeah, the thing weighs 2500 tops.

[NC4x4]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

yes

Have any particular reasoning behind that?
My truck has the pieces of tubing dropping down from the coil tower that act as bumpstops/retainers.
Not sure how much coils that are retained on both ends will droop, although they will obviously be limited to some extent, but I know mine can flex enough to drop out of the coil tower and start moving down the piece of tubing.

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by NC4x4

Have any particular reasoning behind that?
My truck has the pieces of tubing dropping down from the coil tower that act as bumpstops/retainers.
Not sure how much coils that are retained on both ends will droop, although they will obviously be limited to some extent, but I know mine can flex enough to drop out of the coil tower and start moving down the piece of tubing.

yeah, i could do it like that, but they way i made the bracket, it will be better to bolt it in. plus, i think it will still flex more than enough. i have seen my brothers double the spring length from ride height. but if i need more flex, i can always change the design.

[NC4x4]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

yeah, i could do it like that, but they way i made the bracket, it will be better to bolt it in. plus, i think it will still flex more than enough. i have seen my brothers double the spring length from ride height. but if i need more flex, i can always change the design.

Gotcha. Those springs do look like they will extend without much coercion.
What length and type of coils are those? I'm assuming you are getting a larger lift spring because of the weight difference?

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by NC4x4

Gotcha. Those springs do look like they will extend without much coercion.
What length and type of coils are those? I'm assuming you are getting a larger lift spring because of the weight difference?

no, same exact spring. they are just take offs from a tj wrangler. they will be a touch soft for me, but i am ok with that.

[NC4x4]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

no, same exact spring. they are just take offs from a tj wrangler. they will be a touch soft for me, but i am ok with that.

Is it a full set (f & r) of stock tj coils or what?
Have any idea of their uncompressed measurements?

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by NC4x4

Is it a full set (f & r) of stock tj coils or what?
Have any idea of their uncompressed measurements?

two sets of front springs. they are a 5" diameter spring, about 17" uncompressed. ive got one in my hand here.

[Tim99Zr2]

im whoring..

since i have a Z, would the d44 be too narrow?.

i doubt i will sfa, but just a thought

[NC4x4]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

two sets of front springs. they are a 5" diameter spring, about 17" uncompressed. ive got one in my hand here.

Oh ok, cool.
Without incorporating the coil rate factor, I'm figuring you will need to put your bucket/tower about 3-4"+ lower than mine is, although not sure how much further than mine you can go really.
Your coils - 17" uncompressed, mine - 22.5
My frame is ~ 23-24" from the ground, although with my body lift, the body is higher than it would normally be.

22.5 - 17 = 5.5" lower than my bucket
5.5" - approx. .5" your tires, net over mine @ full psi = 5"

There's some redneck "figuring" for you, but that doesn't include a higher or lower rate coil, which I would assume mine would be a little higher because of the lift and application they are designed for.

Is there a spot you already have picked up for the bucket?

[gusdaman]

Quote: Originally Posted by NC4x4

Have any particular reasoning behind that?
My truck has the pieces of tubing dropping down from the coil tower that act as bumpstops/retainers.
Not sure how much coils that are retained on both ends will droop, although they will obviously be limited to some extent, but I know mine can flex enough to drop out of the coil tower and start moving down the piece of tubing.

NC
are your coils retained at the axle with anything or just at the top with the tubing?
GUS

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by NC4x4

Oh ok, cool.
Without incorporating the coil rate factor, I'm figuring you will need to put your bucket/tower about 3-4"+ lower than mine is, although not sure how much further than mine you can go really.
Your coils - 17" uncompressed, mine - 22.5
My frame is ~ 23-24" from the ground, although with my body lift, the body is higher than it would normally be.

22.5 - 17 = 5.5" lower than my bucket
5.5" - approx. .5" your tires, net over mine @ full psi = 5"

There's some redneck "figuring" for you, but that doesn't include a higher or lower rate coil, which I would assume mine would be a little higher because of the lift and application they are designed for.

Is there a spot you already have picked up for the bucket?

i have a general idea of where the buckets are going. but i will have to do a little cutting and fitting to get them right. the springs are going to be about half way up the frame rail or so.

[Donahue]

im going to take some more pics to show you.

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tim99Zr2

im whoring..

since i have a Z, would the d44 be too narrow?.

i doubt i will sfa, but just a thought

z's are wider in the body, just the axles.

[Donahue]

ok, here are the pics of my setup:

[19914x4blazer]

you said you are keeping the 2.8 is that going to have the hp to move all that weight

[NC4x4]

You will have a little more room since you are moving up the frame, to where it droops a little more, so you will probably get fairly close to being 5" below mine, but I'm just taking an educated guess at this point.

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by 19914x4blazer

you said you are keeping the 2.8 is that going to have the hp to move all that weight

not on the street. it wouldnt do 65 with just the 32's on it. but this is probably a trailer queen

[19914x4blazer]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

not on the street. it wouldn't do 65 with just the 32's on it. but this is probably a trailer queen

what about the the power to pull or climb over rocks? is their any benefit to keeping the 2.8?

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by 19914x4blazer

what about the the power to pull or climb over rocks? is their any benefit to keeping the 2.8?

it will definitely have power off road, because i have doubled up t-cases. i will be at 135:1 crawl ratio, which if you guess my 2.8 puts out 150 lbs of torque, puts me at just over 20k lbs of torque to the ground. thats more than just about any non doubled truck with a v8. the benefit to keeping the 2.8 is that it is already in the chassis. it also runs great, and has a known history. i also know that i probably cant break my t5 trans with it, nor anything else except for probably my front axle in double low. i guess the thing to remember is that i primarily rock crawl, where HP is not king but gears are. i wont be mud bogging it, maybe once in a blue moon.

[Donahue]

well, i have some numbers. i have asked for and gotten a few measurements off of other stock blazers. it looks like i am running at 7" of lift. if any of you want to confirm this better, i have about 15" between the axle tube and the frame rail. i have heard twice now that 8.5 is stock, then you add about 3/8" or 1/2" for the tube diameter difference.

[gusdaman]

Donahue,
I was reading your ring gear post on pirate and have this picture for you so you know why you need to decrease backlash.

From here: http://www.pirate4x4.com/articles/te...sta/Gear_Setup

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by gusdaman

Donahue,
I was reading your ring gear post on pirate and have this picture for you so you know why you need to decrease backlash.

From here: http://www.pirate4x4.com/articles/te...sta/Gear_Setup

i see, though i dont think you properly remote linked the pic. i guess i will just have to wait till i setup the gears.

[gusdaman]

No i didnt know how to do it right. sorry
GUS

[19914x4blazer]

i was just asking because my buddy jay has a 2.8 in his s10 and it is a dog in the mud and trails

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by 19914x4blazer

i was just asking because my buddy jay has a 2.8 in his s10 and it is a dog in the mud and trails

yeah, in the mud mine would be a dog too. but trails and rocks it should kick ass.

[Donahue]

updates

i did a little cut and burn on my real estate. now where there was once wedge bushings and panhard bar mounts and leaf perches, there is clean!




let me tell you, there is definitely a right way and a wrong way to take the wedges off. i think i found all of the wrong ways before i found the easy way. it seems they are only welded at the very top and the very bottom, not around the tube at all. so all you really need to do is cut the welds off, and they fall right off. and of course my 14b had the cast perches, i guess that is what i get for saying they were a piece of cake to take off. anyways, they put up a little fight but i won in the end.

getting back on topic, the night was still young so i kept on working. i threw my spring up for those that were wondering. just imagine it a little more off the axle tube height wise.




anyways, i busted out the old sharpie and tape measure and started mapping out where everything was going. my spring plates are about as wide as they can be on the axle, they are touching the welds for the inner c. i did this so i can have room for my upper link tower on the drivers side next to the pumpkin.

i soon realized that i still didnt have much room on the short side, so i made a executive decision to run the link tower partially on the cast pumpkin. i did this so i would have good room to get good welds on all the components.

this meant that i had to fit one of the link tower sides to the housing. i used a piece of cardboard to make a template.

here is the final shape

here it is fitted to the housing

i went ahead and started tacking things on to get a better idea of how it will all work together.






you can see my caster and my pinion angle in the last pic, that is how it will be in the truck. caster is dialed in at 6* and the pinion points up nicely.

[Donahue]

well, i decided to tackle the gear boxes tonight. i needed to get my doubler in before i can figure out my rear pinion angle. anyways...

so i had a spare t5 ready to put in when i had the chance because my old one grinds a lot in 4th. well, i broke it (the spare one) trying to put it in after inspecting my clutch. i didnt have the angle quite right, and when i was trying to draw it in, i broke the pilot bearing portion off. on top of that i also broke an ear off of the bell housing.





the good news was my clutch as in good shape.






anyways, i ended up slapping the old trans back in with a spare bell housing i luckily had. then i went ahead and put the doubler in place. i still need to clock it up more, but this gives me a good idea of the condition of the rear drive shaft. it looks like it will be really short, about 26" from u-joint to u-joint.



and finally, my rear shaft angles

[02ZQ]

Looking good man.

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by 02ZQ

Looking good man.

thanks

[Donahue]

i had to clock the 241 up a bit to keep a flat belly. the s10 drivetrain slopes down a lot as it goes to the rear. but, this helps my driveline clearance so i am happy with it.

my gear boxes

the belly clearance


how much i had to clock up the second case

[gusdaman]

Donahue-
are you running any kind of special rear driveshaft?
GUS

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by gusdaman

Donahue-
are you running any kind of special rear driveshaft?
GUS

i havent figured that out yet. i can say that i am running a special configuration of the rear driveshaft. i am running the middle one in this pic:



my driveshaft will likely be only about two feet long, and i am going to try and make it out of round, and try and balance it as best i can. i am keeping the rear slip yoke at this point, so the driveline will just be a single piece. hopefully the slip has enough slip though, that is something i have been thinking about. i wont know until after the suspension is on and i flex it out.

[Tim99Zr2]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

i havent figured that out yet. i can say that i am running a special configuration of the rear driveshaft. i am running the middle one in this pic:



my driveshaft will likely be only about two feet long, and i am going to try and make it out of round, and try and balance it as best i can. i am keeping the rear slip yoke at this point, so the driveline will just be a single piece. hopefully the slip has enough slip though, that is something i have been thinking about. i wont know until after the suspension is on and i flex it out.

you should just make it out of sqaure tube.
there is no reason not to, much stronger, easy to make, plenty of flex room on it.
they just dont balance for hell?

[gusdaman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

i havent figured that out yet. i can say that i am running a special configuration of the rear driveshaft. i am running the middle one in this pic:



my driveshaft will likely be only about two feet long, and i am going to try and make it out of round, and try and balance it as best i can. i am keeping the rear slip yoke at this point, so the driveline will just be a single piece. hopefully the slip has enough slip though, that is something i have been thinking about. i wont know until after the suspension is on and i flex it out.

Donahue,
Why are you making it "out of round". I would try to make it as straight as possible.

[Tim99Zr2]

Quote: Originally Posted by gusdaman

Donahue,
Why are you making it "out of round". I would try to make it as straight as possible.

i think he means out of round material, verus square tube


did i miss somehting?

[Donahue]

correct, out of round tube vs square tube.

my front will be square, but i may drive this on the street a bit, so i want to at least try and make the rear balance as well as i can in my garage. since i have a rear slip yoke, i dont need the added slip square tube provides. as for the round material, probably 3" or 3.5" sch.40 pipe. its close to .25 thick i believe.

[gusdaman]

you know how something that isn't really perfectly round- is out of round- i thought thats what he meant

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by gusdaman

you know how something that isn't really perfectly round- is out of round- i thought thats what he meant

i should have been more specific. i want to make it with round material

[greencactus3]

curious on the way you are attaching the coils.
is this a 'safe' way to do it? rather than cupping it in?
or is this something you 'can' do on a trail rig but not reccomended for street use?

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by greencactus3

curious on the way you are attaching the coils.
is this a 'safe' way to do it? rather than cupping it in?
or is this something you 'can' do on a trail rig but not reccomended for street use?

i dont understand the question. what is "cupping" it in rather than what i am doing?

[greencactus3]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

i dont understand the question. what is "cupping" it in rather than what i am doing?

like how the stock 2wd front springs are held in place.

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by greencactus3

like how the stock 2wd front springs are held in place.

got a picture?

[greencactus3]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

got a picture?

well, its not 'clamped' in place i guess.

not exactly showing how it cups, but the top and bottom of the coil are just 'sitting' in 'cups'.

[Donahue]

yeah, i would think this (what i am doing) is actually safer than just cupping it. i will probably add a piece to the upper and lower brackets to "center" the spring, something to sort of capture the inside of the spring. there are a few if not several oem type suspensions that dont actually capture the spring in any sort of bolt on way. when i installed the lift in my friends new FJ cruiser, the rear end just sits on the springs and is not bolted to them in anyway. if he flexed too much, the spring could just pop out.

[greencactus3]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

yeah, i would think this (what i am doing) is actually safer than just cupping it. i will probably add a piece to the upper and lower brackets to "center" the spring, something to sort of capture the inside of the spring. there are a few if not several oem type suspensions that dont actually capture the spring in any sort of bolt on way. when i installed the lift in my friends new FJ cruiser, the rear end just sits on the springs and is not bolted to them in anyway. if he flexed too much, the spring could just pop out.

hmm alright cool thanks!
<---still trying to find a good way to lose the leaf setup

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by greencactus3

hmm alright cool thanks!
<---still trying to find a good way to lose the leaf setup

why?

[greencactus3]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

why?

1) not enough adjustability
2) inconsistent
3) deflects in weird ways
to name a few

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by greencactus3

1) not enough adjustability
2) inconsistent
3) deflects in weird ways
to name a few

you talking 4wd or 2wd?

[greencactus3]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

you talking 4wd or 2wd?

oh sorry. 2wd