89 SFA buildup for rocks

[Donahue]

ok, it took me awhile to get back home, i spent all day at my moms house for a family function. anyways, here are some of the brackets i made.


upper link axle end:

lower link axle ends:

frame panhard bar mounts:

upper link frame mount:

i made different ones for the rear and front:

upper coil bucket:


lower coil bucket:


and of course my bitchen sq. tube adapting bushing ends from suicide doors:

[BlownDime]

Do you have access to a CNC table, or are you cutting all those out by hand?

[lbcblazer88]

this thing is gonna kick some seriouse A$$!

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by BlownDime

Do you have access to a CNC table, or are you cutting all those out by hand?

those were cut on a laser/turret table. i dont easily have access to a cnc table, but i do have laser and or turret.

[Donahue]

btw, does anyone want any of the stuff that came off my blazer? things like front and rear axles, all IFS stuff, bumpers and tires, etc? PM me if you do.

[gusdaman]

Donahue,
Can you explain how you cut all those things. I'm not familiar with a "turrett table." and if you have pictures tha'd be great. Thanks man
Edit: One mor question- are all your links adjustable and if so- at what end are they adjustable?
GUS

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by gusdaman

Donahue,
Can you explain how you cut all those things. I'm not familiar with a "turrett table." and if you have pictures tha'd be great. Thanks man
Edit: One mor question- are all your links adjustable and if so- at what end are they adjustable?
GUS

a turret is a machine that punches metal, usually holes and other shapes. a laser table cuts things out with a high power laser. this particular machine has both capabilities.

it is something similar to this (found on google), infact this may be the exact table.



as for the links, my lowers are non adjustable, and my uppers will have one adjustable end (axle end, adjustable length), and they will also be adjustable at the crossmember (up or down 1").

[gusdaman]

So you drew them up on AutoCAD or something and then just punched it into the computer on the turret/laser table and it basically makes them by itself??
And is that typical to make the uppers adjustable and keep the lowers at a set length or is it just personal preference?
By the way- the parts look great- and what are your plans for painting them? just spray bomb or are you gonna herculine ore somthing?
Thanks
GUS

[02ZQ]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

a turret is a machine that punches metal, usually holes and other shapes. a laser table cuts things out with a high power laser. this particular machine has both capabilities.

it is something similar to this (found on google), infact this may be the exact table.



as for the links, my lowers are non adjustable, and my uppers will have one adjustable end (axle end, adjustable length), and they will also be adjustable at the crossmember (up or down 1").

Note to self "need to add on to the garage for this,because me want"

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by gusdaman

So you drew them up on AutoCAD or something and then just punched it into the computer on the turret/laser table and it basically makes them by itself??
And is that typical to make the uppers adjustable and keep the lowers at a set length or is it just personal preference?
By the way- the parts look great- and what are your plans for painting them? just spray bomb or are you gonna herculine ore somthing?
Thanks
GUS

just regular paint, they still have to get welded to the frame. the link adjustability is more or less just a preference. it will only really be adjustable to dial in the caster/pinion angle once everything is in the ball park.

yes on the auto cad thing, though solid works was also used. then some of it had to be bent, that was done on a press brake.

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by 02ZQ

Note to self "need to add on to the garage for this,because me want"

that one is about a million dollars...

besides, you dont want this one. it really only does up to 3/16" well. anything over that and the laser cut looks bad (like on my parts).

[BatwingZ]

Yea... youd have to take out a few mortgages for one of them bad boys...The local Vocational School has one of them.. you talk about some slick looking stuff... id sooo love to have access to one of them...

AutoCad is a kickass program....Its confusing as crap at first to figure out how to use.. If youve taken a course in school on how to use it your set...all this shit makes me want to go into machining now!...and not work on Airplanes...Errr... Don you disgust me with all these cool looking parts!...LOL J/K man...

Everythings lookin good.. Cant wait to see the finished product...

[BlownDime]

That's a pretty crazy machine. I use to run CNC plasma and laser tables.

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by BatwingZ

...AutoCad is a kickass program...

if by kickass you mean old and out dated then you are right. solid works is by far the program for fabrication these days.

[ChrisInVT]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

a turret is a machine that punches metal, usually holes and other shapes. a laser table cuts things out with a high power laser. this particular machine has both capabilities.

it is something similar to this (found on google), infact this may be the exact table.



as for the links, my lowers are non adjustable, and my uppers will have one adjustable end (axle end, adjustable length), and they will also be adjustable at the crossmember (up or down 1").

Ahhhhh an Amada. Well that's at least what we call it here at the factory, "The Amada" - I've honestly never heard it called a turret. We have a completely separate laser cutting machine also about 3x the size of the Amada. Some cool toys that they don't let me play with...

[BatwingZ]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

if by kickass you mean old and out dated then you are right. solid works is by far the program for fabrication these days.

Ok so im outdated....LOL... Didnt know anything about Solid Works... and Now youve really got me thinking about going into the machining world ..

[02ZQ]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

that one is about a million dollars...

besides, you dont want this one. it really only does up to 3/16" well. anything over that and the laser cut looks bad (like on my parts).

Yeah I know and that sucks only 3/16.

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by ChrisInVT

Ahhhhh an Amada. Well that's at least what we call it here at the factory, "The Amada" - I've honestly never heard it called a turret. We have a completely separate laser cutting machine also about 3x the size of the Amada. Some cool toys that they don't let me play with...

at this shop we have probably 10 machines that are "amada's". we call it the apelio. there are about 5 turrents, and probably about 6 or 7 laser tables of various kinds. we also call the turrets punch presses some times.

[ChrisInVT]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

at this shop we have probably 10 machines that are "amada's". we call it the apelio. there are about 5 turrents, and probably about 6 or 7 laser tables of various kinds. we also call the turrets punch presses some times.

Shit man, where the hell do you work? We're a moderately big manufacturer and never have the need for THAT much equipment!

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by ChrisInVT

Shit man, where the hell do you work? We're a moderately big manufacturer and never have the need for THAT much equipment!

its where i used to work, pacific metal fabrication. my brother in law still works there. its about 200k-300k sq feet of shop. there are probably 10 or so press brakes, 6 or so lasers, 6 or so turrets, 2 robotic welders (what i used to run), about a dozen welding stations, a full machine shop with about a dozen CNC machines and a few lathes, that sort of thing, a full powder coating line, things like pem press, CNC tube benders, a dozen large to small saws, and probably anything else you can think of. its probably the largest shop on the west coast outside of LA. we made everything you could think of from server towers to lift kits. i know we do a lot of work for revtek, and we made all the road armor bumpers you see.

[Donahue]

updates:

well, i got my ring gear back today from my dad's shop. i had it turned down about 3/4" all the way around. now i need to shave the bottom of my differential to take up all the room i just gave it. i am going to take off about 3" from the bottom of my 14b. here is the ring gear, before and after.

before:






after:






now before everyone questions this, i am fully aware of the risks, and how likely it is to break now. i am ok with that, and this is an experiment. if i do break this, i will have to replace my entire housing. and if it doesnt work, then i will just go back to the normal ring gear/housing.

[19914x4blazer]

why did you do that? i am not sure i understand why?

[ChrisInVT]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

its where i used to work, pacific metal fabrication. my brother in law still works there. its about 200k-300k sq feet of shop. there are probably 10 or so press brakes, 6 or so lasers, 6 or so turrets, 2 robotic welders (what i used to run), about a dozen welding stations, a full machine shop with about a dozen CNC machines and a few lathes, that sort of thing, a full powder coating line, things like pem press, CNC tube benders, a dozen large to small saws, and probably anything else you can think of. its probably the largest shop on the west coast outside of LA. we made everything you could think of from server towers to lift kits. i know we do a lot of work for revtek, and we made all the road armor bumpers you see.

Ohhh, well that would explain the need for all that!

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by 19914x4blazer

why did you do that? i am not sure i understand why?

for better ground clearance. the rear end i am going to use is notorious for having poor ground clearance. i am going to cut about 3" off the bottom, and then plate it so there is only about 1/8" between the ring gear and the plate. its going to be like stepping up 6" in tire size.

[NC4x4]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

for better ground clearance. the rear end i am going to use is notorious for having poor ground clearance. i am going to cut about 3" off the bottom, and then plate it so there is only about 1/8" between the ring gear and the plate. its going to be like stepping up 6" in tire size.

That's why the good Lord allowed us to invent Ford 9s.
I'm kidding, for the most part. It would almost assuredly be a more expensive route.

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by NC4x4

That's why the good Lord allowed us to invent Ford 9s.
I'm kidding, for the most part. It would almost assuredly be a more expensive route.

i will have better clearance than a ford 9"

[Donahue]

well, some guy just walked away with my old 32's. i got $80 for them. seems like the end of an era...

[NC4x4]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

i will have better clearance than a ford 9"

Eh, you'd be hard pressed to do so, and even if you do, you've likely just made a weaker ring and pinion than a lower geared 9".

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by NC4x4

Eh, you'd be hard pressed to do so, and even if you do, you've likely just made a weaker ring and pinion than a lower geared 9".

that is perhaps right, but i know i will probably have better clearance than a 9" because i get to control where the housing gets plated below the ring gear. and, ring and pinion aside, this will be a hell of a lot stronger than a 9. now factor in the ring and pinion, and i may have my achilles heel, but then again it may be still strong enough because of how beefy it was to begin with. you definitely have me beat in gearing though, 5.38 is the lowest you can get for a 14b.

[Donahue]

NC, do you know how far your housing hangs down from the centerline? just curious. i should be right at 5"

[Baggey22]

Donahue what motor are you using in this swap?

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by Baggey22

Donahue what motor are you using in this swap?

the stock 2.8 is staying with about 160k on the clock. its getting a new trans though, the old one has a input shaft bearing going out and a bad syncro in 4th.

[NC4x4]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

NC, do you know how far your housing hangs down from the centerline? just curious. i should be right at 5"

I'm not positive, I'd have to measure it to be close to exact. I'll check it if I get a chance, and don't forget, in the next few days.

I can't see you being as far as 5" from centerline, although if you were able to, you would have very, very little protection from hitting and busting it open later on.
The only thing I have seen before is that Dana 60 rears are about 6.25" below centerline, Dana 44s are about 5.375" below centerline and a shaved 9" (shaved how much? didn't say) can get down to 4.75" or so.

Also, keep in mind weight, for what it's worth. My 9" is in the ball park of 200, whereas a FF14 bolt is right at about 550.

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by NC4x4

I'm not positive, I'd have to measure it to be close to exact. I'll check it if I get a chance, and don't forget, in the next few days.

Also, keep in mind weight, for what it's worth. My 9" is in the ball park of 200, whereas a FF14 bolt is right at about 550.

thats very true about the weight. though, i think it will help my suspension work harder with all that extra weight. plus, its unsprung weight and therefore lowers my CG too. at least, that is what i tell myself...

they are stupid hard to move by yourself. even when they are stripped down like mine is

[NC4x4]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

thats very true about the weight. though, i think it will help my suspension work harder with all that extra weight. plus, its unsprung weight and therefore lowers my CG too. at least, that is what i tell myself...

they are stupid hard to move by yourself. even when they are stripped down like mine is

You aren't kidding about the moving them around part. One of the reasons I happened to mention weight because I remember picking up my 9 and moving it around the basement.

The 44 front with radius arms attached....took 4 of us to get it out of the back of my truck. That was a huge pain, let me tell you.

[Tim99Zr2]

damn you.. all you SFA guys, i want to do a SAS now. fockers. hate you all!


this is prob. my fav sas swap going on right now.

i like reading up on your sas's guys!

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by NC4x4

You aren't kidding about the moving them around part. One of the reasons I happened to mention weight because I remember picking up my 9 and moving it around the basement.

The 44 front with radius arms attached....took 4 of us to get it out of the back of my truck. That was a huge pain, let me tell you.

hah, you should try a d60 front fully loaded...

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tim99Zr2

damn you.. all you SFA guys, i want to do a SAS now. fockers. hate you all!


this is prob. my fav sas swap going on right now.

i like reading up on your sas's guys!

if you were in my area, you could help me with mine and then you could do yours. its not that bad if you have the tools and the knowledge to make it happen. but it aint no weekend thing

[NC4x4]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

hah, you should try a d60 front fully loaded...

Oh I know those are about as heavy as it gets, but all that cast + radius arms don't make a 44 too much lighter...especially loaded in the back of an already lifted S10. I had a nice "gangster lean" going on down the highway.

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by NC4x4

Oh I know those are about as heavy as it gets, but all that cast + radius arms don't make a 44 too much lighter...especially loaded in the back of an already lifted S10. I had a nice "gangster lean" going on down the highway.

yeah, i know what you mean. when i first got my old k5, i had to drive the axles up to seattle. i had both the d60 and 14b in the back of my k5, that was interesting.

[gusdaman]

Donahue,
A couple questions for you. What machine did you dad use to turn down the ring gear?
What is the procedure for mounting your brackets to the axle. Do you put your radius arms on the truck, set your pinion angle and weld everything together, or do you already have everything all set up? As in are you going to weld the brackets to the axle first and then just slide it under the truck and attach the radius arms?
Thanks
GUS

[Tim99Zr2]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

if you were in my area, you could help me with mine and then you could do yours. its not that bad if you have the tools and the knowledge to make it happen. but it aint no weekend thing

i think i could handle doing it, i would just do leafs all around. you guys got me searching for a grand wagoneer now.. haha

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by gusdaman

Donahue,
A couple questions for you. What machine did you dad use to turn down the ring gear?
What is the procedure for mounting your brackets to the axle. Do you put your radius arms on the truck, set your pinion angle and weld everything together, or do you already have everything all set up? As in are you going to weld the brackets to the axle first and then just slide it under the truck and attach the radius arms?
Thanks
GUS

as far as the procedure for mounting everything, i did this. i set my frame height where i want it to be at ride height, which happens to be at 25" to the bottom of the frame. i did this with 12 ton jack stands. then, i put the axles on jackstands, and set them at the correct height as if they had tires on them. then i just slide them under the frame to where i want them to be, the rear axle is in the same spot, but i moved the front forward about a foot. so now i have the correct WB that i want, with all the same relations in height between the axles and the frame that i want. then i make sure that i have the correct pinion angle and or caster i want for the axles. then it is just a matter of tacking the axle end on, then bolting the lower link to it, and then tacking it on to the frame end. and i dont know if it is just a slip, but i am not actually using radius arms, but a 3 link.


as for the ring gear, we used a crank grinder

[gusdaman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

as far as the procedure for mounting everything, i did this. i set my frame height where i want it to be at ride height, which happens to be at 25" to the bottom of the frame. i did this with 12 ton jack stands. then, i put the axles on jackstands, and set them at the correct height as if they had tires on them. then i just slide them under the frame to where i want them to be, the rear axle is in the same spot, but i moved the front forward about a foot. so now i have the correct WB that i want, with all the same relations in height between the axles and the frame that i want. then i make sure that i have the correct pinion angle and or caster i want for the axles. then it is just a matter of tacking the axle end on, then bolting the lower link to it, and then tacking it on to the frame end. and i dont know if it is just a slip, but i am not actually using radius arms, but a 3 link.


as for the ring gear, we used a crank grinder

yeah i meant links not radius arms- so when you say "tacking the axle end on" are you referring to the front axle's inner C? and is it correct that you only have to worry about pinion angle for the rear end but pinion angle and castor for the front? And when you say "bolting the lower link to the [axle]" do you mean bolting the links to brackets on the axles or are you actually bolting the links on to the axles somehow? I guess i'm just confused about how you attach the links to the axles and if there are already brackets on them that you attach the links to before you slide the axle under the vehicle. Thanks donahue. Oh one more question. What holds the coils to the axle coil bucket? Thanks
GUS

[gusdaman]

I forgot to ask. After you put your coils and your tires on, will your frame still sit 25" off the ground? I'm assuming it will, so my real question is, how did you chose a spring with the correct spring rate, so that it sits at that point?
Sorry for all the q's
GUS

[NC4x4]

Quote: Originally Posted by gusdaman

I forgot to ask. After you put your coils and your tires on, will your frame still sit 25" off the ground? I'm assuming it will, so my real question is, how did you chose a spring with the correct spring rate, so that it sits at that point?
Sorry for all the q's
GUS

If he "guesstimated" (or calculated lol) the spring rate and figured in settling and all that correctly, then it will end up being at his desired height.

Some people calculate and figure out correct spring rates, etc. (although mainly that is with coilovers), some pick coils from a vehicle of similar size or of one they can gauge a correct height from, and then others simply learn from others' builds and go with coils that they have seen work/seen the effects of.

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by gusdaman

I forgot to ask. After you put your coils and your tires on, will your frame still sit 25" off the ground? I'm assuming it will, so my real question is, how did you chose a spring with the correct spring rate, so that it sits at that point?
Sorry for all the q's
GUS

no problem on all the questions, ask away.

the plan is to have the frame at 25" at ride height, so yes with the tires and stuff on it. i picked my spring because i have seen it flex, i know how soft it is relatively (i dont know the numbers), and it is something that most people throw away. i am using a stock TJ front spring, all around. when i weld the buckets to the frame, i will just guess on how much they will sag with the weight on them, and just go from there.

as for the inner c's, i am not changing anything with them. since they are welded to the axle tube, and the tube welded to the center section, the castor and pinion angle are fixed in relation to each other. so you have to come to some sort of balance between optimal pinion angle, and optimal castor, or you can cut and turn the c's. because i am using a HP axle, my pinion angle is almost spot on when the castor is optimal. i am setting the castor at about 6-8* which points the pinion up just a little, but it also points it right at the t-case.

when i say "bolting the links to the axle" i mean bolting the links to the brackets i have welded on to the axle. these are the brackets i have made to do just that:


i hope that clear it up. after i know where the pinion angle is going to be, i will tack these tabs on basically at the axle's vertical center line. i can do this with the axle not under the vehicle, because i already know how much the castor is going to be. then, i can slide the axle where i want it under the frame, and put one of my lower links on, and see where the bracket on the frame needs to be.

as for the coil buckets, the coil will be bolted down with the spring sandwiched between the coil seat and a retainer like this:


there will be a 3/4" bolt going though all pieces that keeps it tight. it will be this way for both upper and lower buckets, at all 4 corners.

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by NC4x4

If he "guesstimated" (or calculated lol) the spring rate and figured in settling and all that correctly, then it will end up being at his desired height.

Some people calculate and figure out correct spring rates, etc. (although mainly that is with coilovers), some pick coils from a vehicle of similar size or of one they can gauge a correct height from, and then others simply learn from others' builds and go with coils that they have seen work/seen the effects of.

yep, pretty much all of the above. i am using the same spring we used on my brothers sami

[NC4x4]

Did you mean that you are going to use retainers on top and bottom of each coil (at the coil seat and the coil bucket)?

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by NC4x4

Did you mean that you are going to use retainers on top and bottom of each coil (at the coil seat and the coil bucket)?

yes