89 SFA buildup for rocks

[Donahue]

well, as many of you know i have been gathering parts together to build my s10 into a little mean machine. i figured i may as well start a thread to tell about what i have been doing to make this happen. my intent is to build a truck that is more go that show. i dont care about what the paint looks like, or the fact that it pretty much looks like a junk yard dog. what i do care about is how well it works, and how much fun it brings me building it and wheeling it.

this started as a bone stock 89 2dr blazer, complete with 2.8 and t5 with a 231 t-case. i took it out once when it was still stock, and broke one of the back windows, and it just snow balled after that.

here it is stock:


and here is the broken window that started it all:


after i broke the window, i decided to go all out, and so i just chopped the top off and removed the doors. i also welded the rear end and trimmed the fenders a little for some 32x10.5 tsl radials. then i proceeded to have a little fun. i ended up breaking a rear axle the first time out and had to leave the truck in the woods for a few days, but soon after i slapped a new shaft in and drove away.





broken axle shaft:





so now, i have gathered some parts to make this thing how i wanted to in the first place. here is a break down of what i want to do


front axle:
74' HP 44 housing (ford)
knuckles and brakes from an 8 lug chevy 44
1 1/2" wheel spacers on each side
4.56 gears
detroit locker
behind the axle steering

rear axle:
14 bolt from a van (full float, 70" wide)
im keeping the drum brakes because they are like brand new (plus i will retain the e-brake)
4.56 gears
welded spiders
possibly shave housing for 3" more clearance (shaved ring gear, cut and plated housing)

suspension:
3 link with panhard front and rear
jeep tj coils
square tube link material
poly bushings all around

engine:
flipped air cleaner lid
other than that, bone stock to keep it reliable

gear boxes:
stock t5 trans
231c mated to a 241c w/ D&D doubler adapter
square tube front driveline

other:
38.5x16x15 tsl's
15x10 8 lug black steel w/ 4" BS
rock sliders
probably the start of an exo cage




full galleries can be found here:
http://krazyk5.com/gallery/89-S10

[crazy91s10]

ya have my undivided attention...

[NC4x4]

one thread not good enough for you, huh?

[Donahue]

on to what i have been doing to make this happen.

i finally got a place to work on it, and it was not where i thought it was going to be. anyways, i have started with tearing down my front axles, i have 3 i need to make into 1. i have a 74' ford hp housing that has open knuckles but drum brakes and a 5 lug pattern. from that i am going to use just the bare housing, and the inner shafts. i also have a (late 70's?) 8 lug chevy 44. from that i am going to take the knuckles and brakes along with the 8 lug rotors. my 4.56 gears are setup in a hp44 third member from a later full size bronco. i need to steel the gears out of that to put into the solid axle housing. i am also buy a full detroit from my dad who happens to have one he cant use anymore (he runs d60's now).

i have torn all but the third member apart. both axles were complete so there is a lot of extra parts.



now, i have decided to do something a little unconventional, though it has been done before. when i am going to run my steering linkage, it will be all behind the axle and hopefully protected a little better. to do this i needed to flip the knuckles from side to side so they point backwards. this also gets me around needed a "flat top knuckle". the truth is all chevy drivers side knuckles are flat tops, it is the pass side that usually needs one. in my setup, the drivers side gets put on the pass side so i only need one unless i want to run high steer in the future. what this is going to do is run the tie rod under the pinion, and there is little room (but there is room). the only other thing about this is my steering box will have to turn left when i turn the wheel right. think of it like two negatives making a positive. to accomplish this i am going to run an astro van steering box, but with the arm still facing rearward. the other option i had was to flip the direction of the stock pitman arm, and keep the regular box. but this would have put the axle tube under the front bumper, and i didnt want it that far forward.

here are my three axles:


my tie rod mock up:



and for those that cant see upside down:





dont let the last three pics fool you, the knuckles seat higher into the c's and the tie rod will be much closer, i will have to trim a little from the cast part of the pinion support. the only other thing that will complicate this is how i am going to run my lower links, and how close they will come. i wont know this till i have them all on that axle for mock up, but they should be coming tomorrow.

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by NC4x4

one thread not good enough for you, huh?

the other ones werent really a good start to a build up thread, you know? i may as well try and make a quality build up thread.








if anybody has any question about what i am doing, or why i am doing it the way i am, feel free to ask.

[Baggey22]

When you're all done with your front axle wanna give me all you spare parts. OR just make an axle I can use for my SAS that I'll be doing this summer?

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by Baggey22

When you're all done with your front axle wanna give me all you spare parts. OR just make an axle I can use for my SAS that I'll be doing this summer?

the shipping would kill you...

honestly for an s10, i think a hp44 is the way to go. that is, if you are going to stick with the s10 frame and drivetrain. and ive only got 1 hp housing. the only other axle i could piece together would have a low pinion, pass drop with 5 lug drum brakes, a (poorly) welded carrier and broken teeth on the ring gear, possibly worse. trust me, i am making the best out of a pile of junk.

[NC4x4]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

the other ones werent really a good start to a build up thread, you know? i may as well try and make a quality build up thread.

Ah, I was just pickin' with you.

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

hp44 third member

What exactly are you referring to as a third member?
I think you mean to use another term.

As far as the steering goes, in all honesty, I think you will have much better clearance and go to less effort to just run hi steer. Even though your tie rod, the way you are wanting to run it, wouldn't be up in front of the axle, it would give you worse axle actual ground clearance. I just don't see where you would have problems with 38s and hi steer, but maybe that's just me.

[Baggey22]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

the shipping would kill you...

honestly for an s10, i think a hp44 is the way to go. that is, if you are going to stick with the s10 frame and drivetrain. and ive only got 1 hp housing. the only other axle i could piece together would have a low pinion, pass drop with 5 lug drum brakes, a (poorly) welded carrier and broken teeth on the ring gear, possibly worse. trust me, i am making the best out of a pile of junk.

Yea that was somewhat a joke. I plan on using as much original stuff as I can. I'm keeping the 4.3, auto transmission, and transfer case. So I figure the hardest part will be figuring out the steering and making a front drive shaft. I'm only doing front leafs so if I end up getting a D30 instead of an HPD44 (whatever falls into my possession easiest) I'll just get it from a YJ Wrangler and use those spring packs if i can. We'll see what happens after I do some more research and actually get into the project.

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by NC4x4

Ah, I was just pickin' with you.



What exactly are you referring to as a third member?
I think you mean to use another term.

As far as the steering goes, in all honesty, I think you will have much better clearance and go to less effort to just run hi steer. Even though your tie rod, the way you are wanting to run it, wouldn't be up in front of the axle, it would give you worse axle actual ground clearance. I just don't see where you would have problems with 38s and hi steer, but maybe that's just me.

im not trying to avoid high steer, im just trying to do this the cheapest way, with a little wow factor added in. if it ends up not working, i am not really out anything, i just need to spend more money.

and third member is the most correct term, its from a hp44 ttb setup. it bolts into the drivers side suspension arm of a 1/2t ford IFS (80-96). you can see it on the far left in this pic.

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by Baggey22

Yea that was somewhat a joke. I plan on using as much original stuff as I can. I'm keeping the 4.3, auto transmission, and transfer case. So I figure the hardest part will be figuring out the steering and making a front drive shaft. I'm only doing front leafs so if I end up getting a D30 instead of an HPD44 (whatever falls into my possession easiest) I'll just get it from a YJ Wrangler and use those spring packs if i can. We'll see what happens after I do some more research and actually get into the project.

i am a fan of square tube front drivelines. they dont balance for sh*t but they are strong and hella easy to make.

[NC4x4]

I just saw HPD44 and no ttb. If it isn't a 9" or a toy, I just say pumpkin, but I understand you now.

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by NC4x4

I just saw HPD44 and no ttb. If it isn't a 9" or a toy, I just say pumpkin, but I understand you now.

you cant see it? i circled it for you

[NC4x4]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

you cant see it? i circled it for you

No no, when you said 3rd member, you just mentioned "D44hp", not "D44hp ttb" or whatever.
I saw exactly what you meant in the picture.

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by NC4x4

No no, when you said 3rd member, you just mentioned "D44hp", not "D44hp ttb" or whatever.
I saw exactly what you meant in the picture.

ah, i guess you cant tell from the pic that it is a HP. there is that third member, the HP housing on the jack stands, and the chevy housing on the far right in the background. but by now i guess you could see all that...

[Donahue]

i just noticed that the HP housing that is on the stands is upside down. looks can be deceiving, i had to have it that way so the knuckles would stay in the right spot without the castle nuts on them, and to make the steering mock up easier.

[Baggey22]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

i am a fan of square tube front drivelines. they dont balance for sh*t but they are strong and hella easy to make.

Are you saying one that is two pieces of square stock that slide together so that it can extend? (saw it on eXtreme 4x4 once) Or just a solid square tube?

[BatwingZ]

awww... so pretty.... Lookin good man!.. Im going on an axle hunt today!...

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by Baggey22

Are you saying one that is two pieces of square stock that slide together so that it can extend? (saw it on eXtreme 4x4 once) Or just a solid square tube?

one piece of 2x2x.25 slid inside a piece of 2.5x2.5x.25

[02ZQ]

Looks like this is gonna be a killer build man,its a beast now so I guess it'll be SUPERBEAST when its finished.

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by 02ZQ

Looks like this is gonna be a killer build man,its a beast now so I guess it'll be SUPERBEAST when its finished.

thanks.


so i did some more mocking up today, because my link brackets came in. it looks like i will not be using them, they just are not quite right for this build. they dont have the vertical separation i was hoping for, and there are a few other small things too. so i will basically have to rebuild (in my head) all the plans i had for how the suspension was going to be. interesting, it appears as though my lower links will actually be above my tie rod. i was not expecting this, but i may decide to roll with it. i still am not 100% on running my steering backwards, because it creates some little issues with the suspension. so far they are not issues that will be of much concern, but if they become to big, i will just switch the steering back to normal.

here are the brakets i got in today, that i will most likely not use.

[NC4x4]

I looked at getting those brackets from Ballistic as well, but when I looked at it, they weren't going to work for me either.

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by NC4x4

I looked at getting those brackets from Ballistic as well, but when I looked at it, they weren't going to work for me either.

they are ok, but they were cut with an old plasma setup. its really pretty sloppy, and tapered. and they dont fit together like i was hoping for. if i was to use them, i would have to trim a bunch of stuff with a grinder to make them fit right. but they were cheap, so i went with them. i was trying to be resourceful by having the lower and upper and spring mounted to one bracket. it looks as though i have to go the other route though, with the upper link tower, and lower link tabs, with a separate spring mount. suddenly, the real estate on the drivers side becomes an issue since i want to run my upper on that side too. i am sure you are familiar with what i am talking about. do you feel like posting your pics of your setup so i dont have to go find your thread? do you have a shot of anything without the rotor in the way? how about one of the frame mount?

[NC4x4]

Those are probably the best that I have. Some of that shown in the pictures isn't exactly how it looks now, those were during the progress stages, but as far as the links and all, that's pretty much how the sit now.

[Donahue]

i remember you were in a thread on pirate about running the upper link on the pumpkin side. is it pretty crammed in there with the driveshaft running past it? i dont know if i can run my original crossmember due to clearance between the driveshaft and the inside of the frame rail. if i have to i will run my lower off the bottom of the frame rail like you did, and my upper right next to my frame. i quickly drew up something like this to use. it would use a piece of formed 5/16" or 3/8" as its base. the rest would be 1/4".

[NC4x4]

The way I have it, it isn't really crammed at all, but if I would have run the upper link to the top of the pumpkin, like some do, I would definitely have clearance issues when compressed.

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by NC4x4

The way I have it, it isn't really crammed at all, but if I would have run the upper link to the top of the pumpkin, like some do, I would definitely have clearance issues when compressed.

the way i am thinking, the upper link would be above the "wedge" and the spring would be against the pumpkin. i came up with this after some rough tape measure guesses on how wide my frame rails are above the axle.

[NC4x4]

So if the coil seat would be right beside the pumpkin, then your spring would be right under the frame rail, correct?

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by NC4x4

So if the coil seat would be right beside the pumpkin, then your spring would be right under the frame rail, correct?

i am thinking it will be just to the outside, but under the frame rail. but to be honest, i need to measure the frame again instead of just guessing. i will probably get to that tomorrow.

[Donahue]

well, ive done some deciding.

my frame rails are 30" from outside to outside at the IFS crossmember. this is where i am going to hang my axle, right at the IFS crossmember. adding 2.5" on each side for the springs (5" diameter) this gets me at 35" for my spring spacing. this will put the spring seat just over the "clean" spot on the drivers side tube, between the wedge and the pumpkin. this is going to be my starting point for where i place the springs.

i also decided that i think i will run my lower links off the bottom of my frame rail so they will run straight down to the axle instead of at an angle.

the biggest thing i decided was that i will use the brackets i got. i decided that i like how they incorporate most aspects of the suspension into one design.

but, instead of running the spring plate centered on the vertical pieces like they are designed, i will run the spring plate forward about 3"+. this will do a few things. first, it will give me room to run my upper links without hitting the spring plate. since it will move the spring just ahead of the axle centerline, it will allow me to run the panhard behind the spring like i want to. i have a neat idea for how to mount the panhard at the frame end, and this will accommodate it. so looking from the front, you will see the springs, then the panhard, then the draglink. its kinda backwards from how everyone else does it, but it will work well i think. i will probably need to watch for oil pan/pulley clearance with the draglink though.

the other big decision i made, was to modify the link design to a certain degree, to allow me to run the tie rod backwards. i am going to run "bent" links. this will probably be in the front only, but i cant say for sure. but what needs to happen for this bracket and my tie rod to get along, is to have my lower links come in from higher, then bend down to meet the axle. this will actually give me better ground clearance at the links, but it will also give it a more booty fab look if i do it poorly. i will also have to run the upper in a bent configuration to clear the lower. this is what it should look like. these are real measurements and are more or less to scale.

[Donahue]

well, it has really started now. we got the s10 in the garage tonight, after battling to clean and organize it for a few days. we had to put it in sideways, because there was a room built in the back of the garage and it was not deep enough. we also hooked the garage up with better lighting and a ghetto blaster for some tunes

well, after a little deliberation, i did decide that i am going to take the body off the frame this time around. i figured its probably a days more work, and i would be kicking my self later if i didnt. so i started tearing down whats left of the body, all while the power is going off and on from a wind storm that is in the area right now. anyways, i got the hood off, then i took the seats back out, and removed the spare tire carrier. then i went to take the tail gate off, and when i was unbolting the little assist spring (with the load on it of course), it let go and hit me in the finger. i am pretty sure that it broke my finger, but what can i do about it now right? anyways, the rear bumper was proving to be dumb because of all the gunked up bolts. so tomorrow i am just going to do it the fast way with the smoke wrench. i will probably also get all the front clip off tomorrow.

one question, when i was looking at the body mount bolts, they dont go out into the passenger compartment like i thought they would. are they studs sticking down out of the body (as in pressed into the body), or will i have to pry the body panels apart to get to the top of them? either way, i figure i should have it off in a few days work.

sorry, no pics. i took some, but they werent really that interesting so i decided to leave the camera there. hopefully i can really get something done and worth reporting soon.

[Donahue]

just figured i would show you guys my progress. we decided to "lay frame" really, we just lowered the frame to the ground so we can take the body off easier. its pretty much off, all the front clip is off, and really everything else too. consequently, this is what it would look like with a 18" body lift :shock:

oh, and we had a bit of an austin powers moment trying to get the s10 in the garage.

[02ZQ]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

just figured i would show you guys my progress. we decided to "lay frame" really, we just lowered the frame to the ground so we can take the body off easier. its pretty much off, all the front clip is off, and really everything else too. consequently, this is what it would look like with a 18" body lift :shock:

oh, and we had a bit of an austin powers moment trying to get the s10 in the garage.

Can't wait to see this bish rolling on those big meats.Looks like you went hook sliding it in there.

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by 02ZQ

Can't wait to see this bish rolling on those big meats.Looks like you went hook sliding it in there.

are you referring to the maneuver to get in there? really, we just parked the front tires in there, jockeyed it around for awhile, and then just pick the back end up with a floor jack and pushed the rear end into the garage. the welded rear end really made it interesting to say the least.

[02ZQ]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

are you referring to the maneuver to get in there? really, we just parked the front tires in there, jockeyed it around for awhile, and then just pick the back end up with a floor jack and pushed the rear end into the garage. the welded rear end really made it interesting to say the least.

yeah I always look for a reason to use the term "hook sliding" and you've stated before that parallel parking is fun.

[Donahue]

oh, i forgot to mention.

i got somemore parts in today. 22 poly bushings with greasable sleeves.

[NC4x4]

You going to run any joints on the opposite ends of the links with those bushings?

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by NC4x4

You going to run any joints on the opposite ends of the links with those bushings?

no, all bushings. i went for cheap and reliable over the little bit of added flex from a joint. plus it will ride better.

[NC4x4]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

no, all bushings. i went for cheap and reliable over the little bit of added flex from a joint. plus it will ride better.

Only reason I asked is because I know sometimes in a dynamic suspension setup like that, you can gain some ill effects, whereas having a static mounting point, like a link joint, is going to reduce unnecessary movement in the links.

Not sure how much it will make a difference, but I know that it can. The only link I had considered to run a bushing on one end was the trac bar, and even at that time was advised by some others not to run bushings on both ends of the trac bar, much less the joints.

But give it a shot and we'll both find out first hand how it works.

[Donahue]

yep, thats all i can do at this point. i think most people do like bushings because they dont bring the bling. but think about how many other kinds of suspension use poly at both ends. i cant think of a single oem design that doesnt use bushings at all ends.

[NC4x4]

That is true. I guess that's just an accepted idea because when you lift a truck up so high and put oversized tires on it, the stress and movement tends to become much greater.

Either way, you'll probably be fine.

[Donahue]

yeah, something it bound to break at some point. whether it is my front axle, or my suspension design or whatever. but, when it does i will just build it better. thats just the way things go. you never know how far you need to go until you go farther than you think you need to.

[Donahue]

well, tonight a few buddies came over and we got the body off, and onto a flatbed trailer, then rolled it out of the way.

then we rolled the chassis outside, and i power washed everything. it is so nice to have everything all clean, and easy to get to. this was definitely worth the effort to do.

after that i just let it dry, everything was all wet including inside the garage. tomorrow i will probably hit it hard. ive got some demolition to do

[ChrisInVT]

One day I'll get this far with my truck

[Donahue]

Quote: Originally Posted by ChrisInVT

One day I'll get this far with my truck

its really not that bad. i have been doing this for a few years now, and with every truck the modifications get more and more drastic. first it was an 87 FS bronco (my first truck). we put bigger tires on it. then my 94 ranger, it got a 6" store bought lift (i think skyjacker) and 35's. then it was my 85 K5 blazer. that got 1 ton axles, about 7" of lift from using non lift springs, and the 38's i currently have. then i moved on to this project. every step brings a new truck, and a new set of obstacles. my next project will likely be a one seater buggy.

[Donahue]

out with the old...









and soon to be in with the new.

i tore out the IFS today, as well as the rear end, and the frame brackets for the leaf springs. i tore apart one side, but decided to do the other side the "fast way". i just unbolted the shock at top, took the brake line off, and unbolted both control arms from the frame, letting it all fall as one piece. but i tell you, that diff did not want to come out of there with the tie rod still in place, but we managed. ive still got to torch off some of the brackets tomorrow, as well as a few crossmembers. but i think i may end up keeping the forward upper control arm mount. it looks like it would make a handy shock mount with a little modification. tomorrow the frame should be mostly clean of everything, and then i can start mocking up mounts for things.

[Donahue]

i got pretty much everything torched off tonight that is getting torched off. i also set my frame height, and my axles under it for a look at the WB and overall height. i set my frame at 25", and my WB at about 112". im not sure but i think i am about somewhere between 6-10" of lift right now, possibly right at 6.5". i want to keep it somewhat low, but with a balance of lift and clearance. i think i am liking it so far.

[Donahue]

you guys are jealous...

last night we pulled almost an all nighter at the shop, getting parts made and formed. i got almost all my suspension paraphernalia made. it turned out really bitchen, and i will post up pics tonight.

[02ZQ]

Quote: Originally Posted by Donahue

you guys are jealous...

last night we pulled almost an all nighter at the shop, getting parts made and formed. i got almost all my suspension paraphernalia made. it turned out really bitchen, and i will post up pics tonight.

yes...yes we are and I hate you.

[gusdaman]

I can't wait for these pictures donahue.. Lets go man. get em up.