2wd Lift Aim VS Fabtech and Balljoint Info

[What?]

2nd Gen. Fabtech to New AIM

[What?]

ONLY COMPLAINT

Dust shield needs pounding away from rotor

tie rod too toed in but adjusted it

i did measurement as well

Spindle shaft
A- 4 3/8
F- 4 1/2

INNER distance top and lower bj
A- 5 1/2
F- 5 3/8

OUTER distance low bj to tie rod

A- 8 3/8
F- 9 1/2

Brake caliper mount are moved somewhat higher than F

Finish the swap,took plenty comparison pics of 2nd gen fabtech to Jan 2008 Aim, quite some difference and measurement

Spindle shaft
A- 4 1/2
F- 4 3/8

INNER distance upper and lower bj
A- 5 1/2
F- 5 3/8

OUTER distance low bj to tie rod

A- 8 3/8
F- 9 1/2

Aim brake caliper mount are moved somewhat higher than F and its similar location as stock

Aim Caliper mount was better fitting than fabtech

bolts to aim dust shield/abs sensor mount are apparently IN between of coarse and fine thread and I have 2 drawers full of fine thread bolt/nut and 1 drawer full of coarse thread bolt/nut

only had to get 1 longer bolt to abs sensor and other 2 are fine, blow hammer are used to fit dust shield to make room for rotor and move it away from rotor

ONLY complaint, its pigeon toed in TOO much just like other member said, so best to lift truck up off the ground and adjust tie rod before you go in alignment soits better driveaibility.

Seeing some pic of ebay spindles, they are just a copy of aim spindle than an actual aim spindle from what I seen on the pic


Fabtech is SOMEWHAT beefier than Aim, HOWEVER Aim has more area machined for dust shield fitting basically

[What?]

Thanks to JMew03 for this info

with the lift spindle and removing the brake hose mount on the frame, i stil have good length and longer hose was NOT NEEDED, JMew03 has 97 2wd Blazer with 3" fabtech spindle and 2" lift coil, it still doesnt need the brake length with droop mount not removed, i had it up in air, at full droop, full lock, it still had room and not pulling hose/ripping on either side of turn. Therefore buying longer brake line isnt NEEDED.

[What?]

Flipped the balljoints

Balljoints are McQuay-Norris, they are really good and recommended by the s10/sonoma prerunners along with Napa Balljoints

[What?]

Thats much better than moog, pp, duralast considering theres more than just a boot protection, pics says it all

[89-S-Dime]

ya I seen the post at desertDimes.com....................I quess you noticed this thread in the same section:
http://dezertdimes.com/board/index.php?topic=825.0

SteveCan wrote:
Hi guys,

I've been busy working on the spindle lift on my first gen 1988 S10 that I purchased from Canuck Motorsports. I believe these are Spingtech spindles. MY ADVICE IS TO AVOID THESE SPINDLES AND KITS!!!

I had to tap threads into the caliper mounting holes, glad they drilled the holes in the right location!

Then correct the wheel alignment toe, there was far too much toe in, I had a pigeon toed truck! At least now I can drive it to the garage to get a wheel alignment.

Far too much modifying for a "bolt on kit". I am a mechanical engineering technician with a machine shop, fitter/fabricator background. If a person didn't have this experience, knowledge and tools they may have a real frustrating time and probably end up returning the "kit" for a refund.

VERY POOR QUALITY

Anyhow here are some photos.

More to come as lift progresses, will post in the brakelines section later on with my DOT brakeline solution

you know springtech is Aim right?

[What?]

89-S-Dime

Pics and comments are from me, JMew03 informed me of the stock brakeline doesn't need to be lengthen but remove the brake line mount on the frame, that's what I meant for JMew03,

Im familiar with that thread, Im member there as What? and made same post/pic over there, Im sharing it over the S10Forum

I had no problem with the 08 Aim spindle and seeing those comparing to other brands, are very similar so I take it its just a copy of a aim spindle but not exact one OR 08 Aim made change of designs because I hadn't had any problems and I posted my comment of it, its not as much as his(the canuck/sprngtech) compared to my Aim so that leads me to believe with picture some difference and problem difference that those companys are just 3rd party design from Aim. Either that or all those spindle are hit and miss

[Power Performance]

Quote: Originally Posted by What?

Thats much better than moog, pp, duralast considering theres more than just a boot protection, pics says it all

I can't say we agree That housing is stamped vs. our housing which is forged - forged is MUCH stronger. Also, it has a clamp-on style boot, which is prone to slipping out of the housing causing premature failure. Our's utilizes a snap ring-retained, accordion style boot.

Just my humble opinion.

Pic for comparison:

[What?]

Quote: Originally Posted by Power Performance

I can't say we agree That housing is stamped vs. our housing which is forged - forged is MUCH stronger. Also, it has a clamp-on style boot, which is prone to slipping out of the housing causing premature failure. Our's utilizes a snap ring-retained, accordion style boot.

Just my humble opinion.

Pic for comparison:

Appreciate your humble opinion , Not knocking on your balljoints. This is typically used when other store bought(beside Napa) are best to get while Moog goes out easily 3-6times, Duralast just crapped out, I've heard few of your brand breaking out but NOT as much compared to Moog/Duralast. Do you guys have designs without the boot, Id like to see it naked Duralast has similar design of snap ring, but wasnt strong enough and the boot just rip easily

I forgot to post up pics, McQuay Norris also has clamp on with bolts attach to a-arms that does same as snap ring to hold boot in, and its very very very tight lol.

You guys do have good products and A LOT sold with good results and a few bad apples, McQuay Norris has yet to have a lot results but just what has been said so far is good result.

Keep it up on your products, you guys have excellent line up and well trusted business

[89-S-Dime]

I disagree with What on McQuay-Norris being the better Ball Joint....................Napa and McQuay-Norris both make two grades of BJ's
Napa makes a premium grade and makes McQuay-Norris makes the "Extreme" series.......both are very good BJ"s but both have failed me.........In fact I've just replaced my upper BJ's and idler arm on my ZR2 with PowerPerformance parts..........I was using McQuay-Norris Extreme BJ's on my ZR2 till I ripped the pin right out of upper BJ on the passanger side of my truck.

[What?]

Quote: Originally Posted by 89-S-Dime

I disagree with What on McQuay-Norris being the better Ball Joint....................Napa and McQuay-Norris both make two grades of BJ's
Napa makes a premium grade and makes McQuay-Norris makes the "Extreme" series.......both are very good BJ"s but both have failed me.........In fact I've just replaced my upper BJ's and idler arm on my ZR2 with PowerPerformance parts..........I was using McQuay-Norris Extreme BJ's on my ZR2 till I ripped the pin right out of upper BJ on the passanger side of my truck.

You are the 1st of this broken McQuay Norris/NAPA damaged balljoint, how long you have been using them for?

Dezertdimes.com

Quote: Originally Posted by negativeswitches

today i found out that the mcquay norris and dpw moog and master ride are all made by aphenia, so is dana 60 perfect circle but they are a primary line and not a secondary line like moog dpw master ride and mcquay norris

i dont know where the extremes fit in i assume same as a dana 60 perfect circle since they are all made by one big company just 2 different lines of parts

-erik

Quote: Originally Posted by sik_kreations

damn near every balljoint has a lifetime warranty, if u blow it out the side of the cup, sometimes they wont warranty them. napas arent anything special. get the mcquay norris, u wont go wrong with them. ive broken 5 or 6 balljoints and havent broke these yet.

My friend's bagged truck used the PP and it broke on him, im not sure how long specifically but no more than 3 weeks, went with Moog since it was by his house to buy


However for store bought, more longer from McQuay/Napa than Moog, Duralast, some may not want to wait 1-2days for balljoints to arrive, unless being smart and order ahead

HOWEVER, no one has put the PP on there s10/sonoma prerunner yet, so no result as is for the s10/sonoma prerunner. But we will agree that best money spent will be the Uniball, That will be my next balljoint after this. But now having you and Brian using the PP, that will show the result of PP on the 4wheelers, at least its better than Moog

Also another company to look into, which i believe 2 members from dd.com using this and happy with it as well

Red Baron is one of them and his comment about them

http://stockcarproducts.com/susp7a.htm

Quote: Originally Posted by The Red Baron

I have been using the Howe upper ball joints for some time now. The problem with them is they don't come with boots. The optional boots you can get from Howe are just universal boots that don't fit very well. I found some truck ball joint boots that work well though.

Just putting up info so we all can have good results per brand and be able help each other out to get the better balljoints we can get for the cost

[Power Performance]

Quote: Originally Posted by What?

You are the 1st of this broken McQuay Norris/NAPA damaged balljoint, how long you have been using them for?

Dezertdimes.com





My friend's bagged truck used the PP and it broke on him, im not sure how long specifically but no more than 3 weeks, went with Moog since it was by his house to buy


However for store bought, more longer from McQuay/Napa than Moog, Duralast, some may not want to wait 1-2days for balljoints to arrive, unless being smart and order ahead

HOWEVER, no one has put the PP on there s10/sonoma prerunner yet, so no result as is for the s10/sonoma prerunner. But we will agree that best money spent will be the Uniball, That will be my next balljoint after this. But now having you and Brian using the PP, that will show the result of PP on the 4wheelers, at least its better than Moog

Also another company to look into, which i believe 2 members from dd.com using this and happy with it as well

Red Baron is one of them and his comment about them

http://stockcarproducts.com/susp7a.htm



Just putting up info so we all can have good results per brand and be able help each other out to get the better balljoints we can get for the cost

To the best of my knowledge, we haven't gotten any warranty claims for any broken ball joints. Are you sure he was using our stuff? If so, he should contact us for a warranty replacement. Either way, I'd love to take a look at it to see what went wrong, as this is the first time we've heard of a failure from breakage.

[1posS10]

i beat the shit out of my power performance upper joints and theyve never let me down. instead of having upper problems, i now have to replace the lowers with 5 k on them. not power performance. i cant say nothing bad bout em yet...

[What?]

Quote: Originally Posted by Power Performance

To the best of my knowledge, we haven't gotten any warranty claims for any broken ball joints. Are you sure he was using our stuff? If so, he should contact us for a warranty replacement. Either way, I'd love to take a look at it to see what went wrong, as this is the first time we've heard of a failure from breakage.

I talked with him, he threw it out and long gone by now, also along with idler arm, i was looking forward to look at it too.

Quote: Originally Posted by 1posS10

i beat the shit out of my power performance upper joints and theyve never let me down. instead of having upper problems, i now have to replace the lowers with 5 k on them. not power performance. i cant say nothing bad bout em yet...

What brand was it you had to replaced with 5k on it?

[What?]

What I RECOMMEND for the budget wise, the new Aim lift spindle from Aim themself would be a ok choice. HOWEVER Id still recommend Fabtech ESPECIALLY 2nd gen-present if you can get them for under $350 shipped, new or used(besure to check the spindle shaft thread, my fabtech thread got ****ed. Its easy to swap considering only need remove tie rod, tire, caliper, rotor, pads, abs sensor, remove upper arm(keep jack on the lower arm), swap spindle and reverse process.

[Red_devil]

I thank you guys with your threads. You really bring to light a bunch of things I will be asking in the future and looking for answers on. You all are awesome! I think because of this specific thres i am going to go with Fabtech spindles. I talked with you 89-S-Dime on a thread I started on springs or spindles. Thanks for the info man. When I put the spindles on my truck, with my 2" body lift that puts me at about 5.5" of heigth. My question is about the rims and tires. Instructions say....and I state this for safety reasons because this truck is my go to work truck....and I quote:

"This Fabtech spindle lift is designed for use with a 30" diameter tire mounted on a 15x7 wheel. When running larger than OEM tires, wheel back space must NOT exceed 3.75-inches. Larger tires are not recommended for use with OEM wheels with this kit!"

Can I go up to 31's? What about the OEM rims, or the tire diameter? I have 16x8 factory rims, and nice too, will it work? I plan on getting some cheap rock crawlers? What do you guys think? A lot of questions I know! Thanks for your help!

[What?]

Quote: Originally Posted by Red_devil

My question is about the rims and tires. Instructions say....and I state this for safety reasons because this truck is my go to work truck....and I quote:

"This Fabtech spindle lift is designed for use with a 30" diameter tire mounted on a 15x7 wheel. When running larger than OEM tires, wheel back space must NOT exceed 3.75-inches. Larger tires are not recommended for use with OEM wheels with this kit!"

Can I go up to 31's? What about the OEM rims, or the tire diameter? I have 16x8 factory rims, and nice too, will it work? I plan on getting some cheap rock crawlers? What do you guys think? A lot of questions I know! Thanks for your help!

That's for spindle only, any bigger without coil, spacer, prerunner fender. Tires WILL rub without cutting, hammering etc however factory rims will work just fine I'm unsure on backspacing specificailly, but basically don't go bigger than 30" tire diameter(brand vary the actual diameter, so research for variety of tread style/specific diameter, terran use)

however if you just want spindle/coil lift only then look into 5664 moog coil, flip balljoint and call it a day no need for longer brake line or front shocks(with 2" or less, it'll be just bringing droop closer to max droop on stock arms)

then look into lifting rear shackles through www.3leaffab.com can't go wrong with that, however depending on how much lift with shackles you may need or not for longer shocks, which all you need to do is buy zr2 rear shocks, same as stock but longer

[89-S-Dime]

WHAT?,

I've done my research on S10 lift spindles and this thread should be a sticky!

[89-S-Dime]

Quote: Originally Posted by 89-S-Dime

WHAT?,

I've done my research on S10 lift spindles and this thread should be a sticky!

that was fast

[Red_devil]

This is the problem...I can't find the 5664 moog coils for my year pickup. 98' 2WD SLS 2.2 Sonoma. Where can I look? I've tried a search but all the forums pop up with that word in them and thats it. I think I am going to stick to a 3.5 inch spindle and 31x10.5x15. With 2 on the body and 3.5 on the suspension, i think I should be good.

[What?]

Quote: Originally Posted by Red_devil

This is the problem...I can't find the 5664 moog coils for my year pickup. 98' 2WD SLS 2.2 Sonoma. Where can I look? I've tried a search but all the forums pop up with that word in them and thats it. I think I am going to stick to a 3.5 inch spindle and 31x10.5x15. With 2 on the body and 3.5 on the suspension, i think I should be good.

www.autozone.com

search FCS5664S

it'll come up there

however with 5.5" the 31s will be allright

[89-S-Dime]

Mood coil spring Part#5664
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductD...artNumber=5664

McQuay-Norris Coil SpringsPart Number: FCS5664S
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductD...ber=FCS56 64S


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



do a search of 5664 and it will come up
MOOG Part # 5664 -$56.79

[ChrisInVT]

Quote: Originally Posted by 1posS10

i beat the shit out of my power performance upper joints and theyve never let me down. instead of having upper problems, i now have to replace the lowers with 5 k on them. not power performance. i cant say nothing bad bout em yet...

I concur. I beat the crap out of my truck, and those PP BJ's look and perform just as well as they did the first day I put them on. Can't say anything about the Napa BJ's as I've never had a pair on my truck.

[Red_devil]

I checked the PartsAmercia.com store and they noly have Moog springs for my truck from 94-96 Sonoma, and mine is a 98 Sonoma, geez, no glory here with these springs.

[Red_devil]

Quote:

however with 5.5" the 31s will be allright

Great, i figured the case. Im' not sure now if I will have to shackle the back 3 inches to have the truck level out, because i don't want the front end higher than the back. I'm not riding any dunes here in Va, if you know what I mean. Any advice, or experience?

[89-S-Dime]

Quote: Originally Posted by Red_devil

I checked the PartsAmercia.com store and they noly have Moog springs for my truck from 94-96 Sonoma, and mine is a 98 Sonoma, geez, no glory here with these springs.

just give the part number, the Moog 5664 spring only came std. on the 82-85 1.9 Diesel

[low98]

i just read on the AIM website that the spindles are made for only standard offset rims and can break if a larger offset wheel is bolted on...so that means that if i offset my new rims a little more to stick further for a wider stance that they will break? thats kinda weak aint it? does anybody have wider offset rims on their AIM spindles?

[Red_devil]

Quote:

i just read on the AIM website that the spindles are made for only standard offset rims and can break if a larger offset wheel is bolted on...so that means that if i offset my new rims a little more to stick further for a wider stance that they will break? thats kinda weak aint it? does anybody have wider offset rims on their AIM spindles?

What's the AIM website? What website did you go too?

[What?]

Quote: Originally Posted by low98

i just read on the AIM website that the spindles are made for only standard offset rims and can break if a larger offset wheel is bolted on...so that means that if i offset my new rims a little more to stick further for a wider stance that they will break? thats kinda weak aint it? does anybody have wider offset rims on their AIM spindles?

Because spindle lift only on stock suspension, can't have less bs or larger tire (bigger than 31) rubbing will occur, but in your case to have it stick further, it'll be ok

And spindle doesn't break on typical romping, they said it so you can't sue their ass or anything

check out www.dezertdimes.com for some custom, fabbed or added strength to spindle

However there are plenty guys running 1.0"-2" wheel spacers and it only just wear out the wheel bearing sooner, so just keep an eye on it, good repacking, you're good to go

[low98]

alright then thanks man

[TrailTamer1]

the only thing i see the problem with power performance product that they're hard to come by.

when you get them, ok but when the time come, the replacement will be hard to come, i see many get their power performance over a month after they placed the order. while you could just get in the parts searching vehicle to the NAPA to get the parts warranted and get back to the truck with new parts in less1 hour. which is the reason why i went with the NAPA premium products.

the products for the power performance is too soon to tell on how they performs since they're still new in the public IMO

HOWEVER in ONE case, on zr2usa.com, which im a member in there for a while now... a member in there, a zr2 owner, had a power performance ball joint failure, mostly blamed on the hardwares came apart on one of his upper ball joint.

other one member had a tie-rod came new and it was already bent. and struggling to get a replacement since the power performance refuses cuz think that member damaged it before request for a warranted replacement. in fact, he's wishing that he went with a NAPA premium product instead.

my .02

[Power Performance]

Quote: Originally Posted by TrailTamer1

i see many get their power performance over a month after they placed the order.

Which company takes a month to ship out our parts? Please let me know so I can address this with the dealer...

Quote: Originally Posted by TrailTamer1

HOWEVER in ONE case, on zr2usa.com, which im a member in there for a while now... a member in there, a zr2 owner, had a power performance ball joint failure, mostly blamed on the hardwares came apart on one of his upper ball joint.

If I remember correctly, it was determined that that had nothing to do with our ball joint - it was a hardware failure (I believe from over or under torquing, but I don't remember for sure).

Quote: Originally Posted by TrailTamer1

other one member had a tie-rod came new and it was already bent. and struggling to get a replacement since the power performance refuses cuz think that member damaged it before request for a warranted replacement.

We don't think it was bent from the factory. Here is a picture that shows that there was an impact point on the top of the adjusting sleeve:



It appears to us that the customer damaged the tie rod.

Hope this clears things up!

[TrailTamer1]

looks like you already know which customer i was talking about. i was saying on what they said but share on here.

the dealer i was talking about was Synergyoffroad.com

[beedle4]

As I have said before it did come bent there is nothing for it to impact! The mark on the adjuster sleeve is a simple scrape as it was used. In all honesty if I had to do it again I would go with the NAPA premium(blue boot) stuff that way if/when there is an issue you can get a replacement with out all the BS!

[WFO2.2]

Well I have the power performance ball joints and the top ones have leaked out the grease since day one. It just spews out as soon as I grease them. They are a little noisy (probably because the grease won't stay in) going over bumbs

[XtremeBlazer350]

Quote: Originally Posted by 89-S-Dime

Mood coil spring Part#5664
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductD...artNumber=5664

McQuay-Norris Coil SpringsPart Number: FCS5664S
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductD...ber=FCS56 64S


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



do a search of 5664 and it will come up
MOOG Part # 5664 -$56.79

I have a 2001 2wd 2dr Blazer and I want to lift it, will these springs work for me and how much will it lift? Also, the suspesion is stock Bilstein and Im running 15x8 mickey T wheels and BFG 30x9.50's , with minor trimming, and it never scrubs!

[89-S-Dime]

I got some close-up photos of what I think are 1st generation Fabtech spindles (pre-2002) they look the same except they don't say Fabtech on them but they do have a Fabtech part number (see photos) If I did my math correctly Fabtech spindles are 3.5" lift spindles not 3" as some people are saying and the Fabtech spindles are also 1.5" wider per spindle then the Aim spindles









*If anyone is interested the first lift spindles that Fabtech offered with their kits were Bullseye spindles

[nismo_2005]

so wait what is the final vedict on brake lines? I have a first gen and im gonna run moogs and spindles will i need new lines?