v8 swap quandry

[uhlhazard]

So I am debating inside myself with... myself about which v8 I want to dump my hard earned $$$ swapping into my Jimmy.

I reaaaaaaally want an ls engine but there are so many troubles and "welding" involved that I cannot do myself nor do I have anyone I trust enough to take on such an involved task.

I figured I'd just go with the standard vortec 5.7/harness and call it a day 255-265 hp seems okay...

Then a few days ago my aunt offered to sell me her 98 or 99 ls1 firebird for 2k.

Do I buy it and swap the ls1 into the jimmy and suck up the welding or what? O and the problem with the hella expensive turbotime oil pan because I cannot weld whatsoever.

There is some very minor cosmetic body damage on the bird with several marks of excellence across the dash but nothing worth trashing the car for.

I'd hate to do it but the price is right and my cpi is just soooooo damn slow!

I think the only feasable alternatives are

A: vortec 5700
B: 5.3 or 6.0 ls
C: buy this firebird for its stock 305+ hp ls1
D: keep the cpi and buy a vfr?

Opinions, suggestions? Are there any other v8 swaps I should look into?

[XtremeRacer11]

dude i would buy the bird even if u didn't do the swap...thats an awsome price...and if u did us the LS1 and transmission, u could sell the body as a roller and make about $1000...

BTW...Houston is not northern mexico...I'm about 35 min from the mexican border...

[Kampz69]

is this a 4wd jimmy? you mentioned the turbotime pan...

[zx9rgreen]

Quote: Originally Posted by XtremeRacer11

dude i would buy the bird even if u didn't do the swap...thats an awsome price...and if u did us the LS1 and transmission, u could sell the body as a roller and make about $1000...
BTW...Houston is not northern mexico...I'm about 35 min from the mexican border...

I agree with Xtreme.....

[Kampz69]

or just buy the fbody and keep it, the work is already done for ya lol

[uhlhazard]

So from what I have read, people like firebirds and don't know where mexico really is.

Tell me you have lived amongst the millions of illegal immigrants in this sanctuary city. Glad I moved to San Antonio. I do miss the food though.

[XtremeRacer11]

never lived in houston, but lived in s.a for 2 years...i miss it up there...s.a.r. is a great track...i'll have to go up there for a cruise after i get my truck running right...

[uhlhazard]

So after doing lots of reading, I am not interested in the very much more complicated and expensive ls swap. I am a swap virgin and I'm hoping to bust my cherry on a stroked via 400 crank 5.7 vortec with compression high enough to run best on 93 octane.

Possibly an rv/4x4 cam for the torqueses and call it a day. That should keep me replacing front driveline components for a while to come.

I do want to know if people would recommend the 4l80e swap along with this 6.28 liter v8. It seems like that would be my best bet so I don't to have a stockpile of 4x4 4l60e's on hand.

O and I have not had a chance to sit down and beg for the firebird as of yet.

[badnoma16]

if u could get ur hands on the trans am then that would be a great way to go . if u sold the body like extreme said. then that extra 1000 could get a harness and mounts. thats 300+ hp right there.

[ls1s10onair]

if you are even remotely power hungry..... ull be back if you dont do the ls..... i made that mistake once and did an lt1..... never again. you want easy? spend the $.... i did, and my swap took me a week in my spare time, which means after a 10+ hr day of work.... since march, or april, or whenever i finished it, ive daily'd the truckup until 2 days ago, cuz it got too cold for my liking. The ls engine is an absolute work of art imo, and there is no gen I or II motor that can compete

[uhlhazard]

Unfortunately your opinions destabilize my once sane attitude towards my Jimmy. Would a stroked vortec engine/harness not compete with the ls1?

My goals are offroading and towing (within the braking and structural limits imposed upon me by my Jimmy of course) so low end torque is paramount along with reliability and ease of repair.

The simplicity (assumed) of install over the ls motor seems a substantial advantage for the vortec. Along with the massive amounts of online support. I am hard pressed to embrace our new line of v8's.

Was it 600 bucks for the turbotime oil pan? How much does the 4x4 pan for the vortec block run?

[Kampz69]

Quote: Originally Posted by uhlhazard

Unfortunately your opinions destabilize my once sane attitude towards my Jimmy. Would a stroked vortec engine/harness not compete with the ls1?

My goals are offroading and towing (within the braking and structural limits imposed upon me by my Jimmy of course) so low end torque is paramount along with reliability and ease of repair.

The simplicity (assumed) of install over the ls motor seems a substantial advantage for the vortec. Along with the massive amounts of online support. I am hard pressed to embrace our new line of v8's.

Was it 600 bucks for the turbotime oil pan? How much does the 4x4 pan for the vortec block run?

im going to guess no, the stroked vortec will not compete with a LSx in the long run. youd probably have to run a carb to get power levels easily achieved with the LSx series. youll find plenty of online support (ls1tech, this section of the forum, performancetrucks.net, etc). these motors are pretty incredible, so you really shouldnt be hard pressed to embrace them...i always go back to blackx as an example. 9.50's, 26mpg, 4000lb+ race weight. thats pretty easy for me to embrace lol

i have to assume the only thing easier in a vortec swap is the wiring, everything else will be similar. the trouble with the 4wd swap is swap parts...there just isnt as many available compared to the 2wd parts. yes the turbotime pan is expensive, but it most likely isnt the best option anyway...the RPM pan is the most promising right now, ultrashock is currently trying one here:

http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f213/s...il-pan-418294/

for that pan youll need to find a way to run the remote oil filter lines as there are no provisions built into the pan...this is discussed in the thread. also there are the mounts that they sell - they are solid, so based on your sig, you probably dont want those.

then there are headers. the cheapest option is the 98-99 fbody manifolds cut and extended. other than that youll need custom longtubes, or the like.

long story short, stick with the LSx

[scriptedmind]

Just gonna toss in my two cents here. My truck is a 97 S10 2WD with an 01 4.8 V8 and my buddy has a 92 4x4 blazer with a vortec 5.7 Gen II engine.

We both have the following things:
Headers, modded blower box, custom wiring, custom exhaust, modded trans crossmember, V6 HD radiator, e-fans and other random things.

There isn't much difference between our swaps accept mine is more technologically advanced and more powerful out of the box with more potential.

My truck was the first vehicle that I have ever pulled the motor out. I have never attempted anything this involved before but in the end, it wasn't that bad at all and Jared's harness only took like 15 minutes to install (10 minutes of admiring) and all my gauges and electronic worked perfect.

I don't know what's putting you off from going with the LS motor but man we have a LOT in common and I don't regret my swap one bit.

[uhlhazard]

First off, thank you Kampz and scriptedmind for your responses.

I just got this feeling that the vortec would be more appropriate from all of my reading. I also do not want to do any welding. I am hoping I can simply bolt on the v8 via adapters and be done. I am electrically competent enough to do the wiring harness myself.

It would appear that I need to come up with a price list with both the lsx and the vortec swap pieces. Like the oil pans, engine/harness, accessory location, engine adapters.

I just see people here with vortec type v8 swaps alive and well and only a few people with 4x4 lsx swaps.

I just need to be 110% sure the route I choose is the correct one. I do have time on my side though.

[Kampz69]

i guess all in all, the vortec swap would be easier. if thats a big piece of the pir for you, then it may be your best option. however, if you are thinking more long term, want better mileage, etc etc, then it may be best to go the LSx route. reliability shouldnt be an issue with either swap as both motors have proven to do just fine in that regard.

you arent the only one going through this debate. for me, installing a vortec would be a step backward since i could take advantage of the most current technology, instead of simply adding two more cylinders.

[philntx]

If you can afford the oil pan, the corvette front accessories, CPW harness and A/C bracket, and you can find someone to make you an exhaust, you won't have to weld.

You have an engine that gets better performance (mod for mod) and better economy.

[uhlhazard]

I have seen several people mention getting over 20mpg after their v8 swap. My best in my blazer was 21. I can't drive that lightfooted ever again.

Now what I am curious to know is this:

You say the lsx contains technology.

What are its advantages over the vortec beyond the following:

aluminum heads (tech?)
coilpacks (reliability?)
cam and crank positioning sensors eliminating the dist (which I really like)
possible ecm programming

Lets imagine 2 identical 4x4 s10 blazers, one vortec, one lsx stock engines 5.7 and 5.3 doing identical driving. How should I expect fuel mileage between them. Is it comparable?

[ls1s10onair]

a couple simple advantages over the vortec is the fuel injection is more reliable, the lsx motors all have dry intake manifolds, which both save weight, and possibility of coolant leaks (which is a definite for the vortec, cuz they are famous for intake leaks).... power, which is always nice, including the fact that lsx's will outperform mod for mod. (not sure if that made sense, but what i meant is that a mod to a vortec 5.7 will ultimately produce less of an increase that an ls motor would gain from the same thing). There is just so much possibilities with an ls engine, and its simplistic, which leads to less problems in the long run. They are both great engines, but trust me as someone who has already done a gen II and a gen III sbc.... there is no comparison

oh, and being that nobody else said it... you mentioned stroking the 5.7.... for the extra money ud spend on that, you could buy a harness for an ls, if that is whats scaring you off

[Kampz69]

no, he said he can do the wiring himself, it was any sort of welding he didnt want to do. the main advantages that ls1s10onair mentioned are good points...the heads are better, the entire top end is better, etc. stroking the vortec wont be cheap either, so by going the LSx route you could put that money elsewhere in the swap (exhaust fabrication, etc).

[uhlhazard]

Well you guys have really helped me a lot. Thank you for your very good posts and valid points. I used a lot of what I read here and looked at the member rides section. It is hard to find anyone doing lsx to 4x4 much less lsx to 1st gen but I feel like if I were to have support from people like yourselves the project would go over much easier.

I have been reading that getting a body lift will help fitment tremendously. I am looking at getting a polyurethane 1 inch lift. I don't want to go any more than that due to the hideousness of the gaps they make.

If I install lets say a 4.8 or 5.3 now. What are the drawbacks compared to just installing a 6.0?

It appears the 6.0's price is genereally double or more that of a 4.8 and I honestly don't care if i lose 75hp FOR NOW. I figure I can drive the 4.8 until I can find a nice 6.0 to drop in. It seems that once I've done all the work to make an lsx fit in my Jimmy it would be easy to later on down the road drop in a larger displacement block as they all appear the same exact external dimensions.

What I would like to know is this: If I get the 4.8, how will it react to loads with regards to fuel mileage?

Would the 5.3 net me better fuel mileage from simply being a more powerful engine that is used even less?

If the 4.8 will get lets say 1-2mpg better than the 5.3 then I think I am okay with the swap from a fuel savings standpoint especially is the 6.0 would get worse mileage than the 5.3.

[Kampz69]

that does make sense about the body lift, and if you are ok with doing that, then it might be a good option. it may help with header/manifold selection also, but im not sure.

i cant say much regarding towing. it seems that the 4.8's by me are about the same price as the 5.3's, so if it were me i would go with 5.3 just for performance sake. thats not a bad strategy going for the cheaper motor now, working the bugs out, then going the 6.0 route down the road, especially since the 5.3's are so much cheaper. i would guess the 4.8 mileage is pretty similar to the 5.3, the 1-2 mpg estimate you said is probably close.

[comgtsom]

Is the ls2 vette pan not a optional pan for 4x4? I am doing a 2wd swap so I don't know. Just kicking over rocks while I'm at work. Lol.

[Kampz69]

no, i believe it hits the diff.

[CODE4LS1]

My stock 4.8 gets 22 mpg around town and 24-25 mpg on fwy with a LS6 intake and 3" exhaust.

It dynoed 251 RWHP and 270 RWTQ in over 100* weather and high intake temps.

I say there is nothing wrong with the 4.8 if tuned properly, and still has loads more power over the 4.3. Just my .02