s10 ls6 project

zx9rgreen · 09-12-2009, 08:50 PM

congrats man.....that first startup is the best

mknight759 · 09-12-2009, 09:05 PM

i only know how to post pics if i knew how to post vids i could send one from my phone of it running i'm just glad it started up instead of blowed up

mr spree · 09-12-2009, 10:26 PM

just send it to your email. download it and use photobucket to upload it

**NCRides** · 09-13-2009, 11:25 AM

it's running? good job and just over a month not bad...I've been on and off mine for almost 4 years and still not running.... oh well maybe this week soon as I figure out why my fuel pump won't power up

mknight759 · 09-18-2009, 08:30 PM

looks like we may have a problem it started a load squeeling i took the belt off and it still does it any suggestions

TwistedKreation · 09-18-2009, 11:28 PM

i def woulda went with a 228r camshaft as well as the ls6 ported oil pump and double roller timing chain. and as far as the fast intake goes. man honestly save your cash and port the tb and enjoy the ls6 intake. wiend has a street warrior coming out one day thats cheaper and outperforms fast "supposedly"

is this manual or auto?

i think the ls1 swap is the greatest thing ever. i just sold my 99 trans am with 463rwhp and i miss it dearly. but it was time to move on lol. anyhow if you have any questions hit me up.

as far a hp and track times. i would guesstimate at about 350hp and 12"S in 1/4

mknight759 · 09-19-2009, 12:27 PM

ok i think the verdict is a spun cam bearing that sucks a$$ but it happens I will start the teardown tomorrow now i've lost all inspiration to finish but i'm stuck in the middle its not worth shit broke and i don't want to put any more money into it

**platour22** · 09-19-2009, 02:12 PM

how does this happen on a new motor?

mknight759 · 09-19-2009, 02:44 PM

well I may not have broken it in properly or it could have been installed wrong from the factory the journal may not have been the right size hard to tell untill I get it apart but its no good to me broke just going to fix it and smile

**platour22** · 09-19-2009, 03:07 PM

were u get the motor from. Does it have warranty.

mknight759 · 09-19-2009, 05:37 PM

no i built it

**platour22** · 09-19-2009, 05:47 PM

Well i hope its not too bad when you open it up. Good luck with it.

mr spree · 09-19-2009, 07:01 PM

Did you purge the engine with oil????

mknight759 · 09-20-2009, 12:11 AM

well some what i unpluged the fuel pump relay and turned it over it run fine for a little while then started this i got the engine out now gonna tear it down tomor
row see what the problem is

mknight759 · 09-20-2009, 08:04 PM

well i have it apart its not a spun cam bearing there is a small something on the front bearing that may be causing it but not real sure going to take the front 2 main caps off and look to see how they look does anybody have any other suggestions

**platour22** · 10-01-2009, 10:45 AM

mknight what belt are you running. fixing to order my alternator bracket and wanna order it to. Also that pulley on the lower left of the bracket what is that. Is it included in the kit. looks like another idler pulley. Thanks man.

Iroc-10 · 10-01-2009, 04:46 PM

Can you go into the squealing a little more? You said it was a load squealing? So it does not do it at idle? Did the sequel pitch change with engine rpm? And it did it with the belt off right? Is it like a metal on metal chirping/squeal? Did you try to locate it with a screw driver, by placing it on items on the engine when it was running and listening to the other end to get an idea of location? Anything to help narrow down the issue.

mknight759 · 10-02-2009, 01:17 AM

PLATOUR its an idle pulley comes with the kit the belt i have is from autozone i will find the number and pm you

mknight759 · 10-02-2009, 01:20 AM

OK update on the metal to metal squeeling engine tore all the way down to bare block and found no problems trans is at a freinds trans shop getting rebuilt < cause i bought it used just going to be safe> going to pick up a tci stall converter next week < new > going to thump up the engine some with a bigger cam while its apart i put 30 miles on it and now i'm back to 0 but oh well if it doesn't work this time we gonna push it to the back of the yard and watch it rust

mknight759 · 10-04-2009, 06:55 PM

ok so i went ahead and ordered my new cam a patriot 225/229 .581 .591 gonna put a 2800 stall in also so i have my new ls6 cam springs and retainers on the chopping block in the classifieds will start assembly on the engine next week sometime can't decide wether to upgrade timing chain ,lifters & rod bolts

conatus · 10-04-2009, 07:11 PM

No U Didnt Liar They Stopped Making Ss In 98 And Never Made That Color

mr spree · 10-04-2009, 07:25 PM

huh?^^

mknight759 · 10-04-2009, 07:43 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by conatus

No U Didnt Liar They Stopped Making Ss In 98 And Never Made That Color

what are you refering to ?

**platour22** · 10-04-2009, 10:31 PM

thats hillarious! This guy clearly found his way in the wrong thread.

**Kampz69** · 10-04-2009, 10:55 PM

702s10 · 10-04-2009, 11:21 PM

He was talking about post #2...but never cared to read further.

**Kampz69** · 10-06-2009, 04:04 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by conatus

No U Didnt Liar They Stopped Making Ss In 98 And Never Made That Color

thank god for caps lock block...

try reading through the entire thread before calling people liars

**platour22** · 10-06-2009, 04:20 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by 702s10

He was talking about post #2...but never cared to read further.

Someone needs to teach him had to reply with quote.

**s10v8drew** · 10-06-2009, 04:38 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by conatus

No U Didnt Liar They Stopped Making Ss In 98 And Never Made That Color

awesome 4th post moron

i like this build, well besides the problem you ran into, at least it gave you a reason to put a little bit healthier cam in there lol

**Kampz69** · 10-06-2009, 08:17 PM

BudRacing · 10-07-2009, 12:13 AM

The swap is looking great so far. It's tough when you've got little midgets with hammers and lathes in your engine when it's brand new.

Also, I really like the way you've run your exhaust. It's simple, but done right; nice welds and hidden dumps. I probably would have gone a little quieter than flowmaster, but that's just because I'm tired of mine after 30k miles.

Good luck gettin it all back together!

mknight759 · 10-07-2009, 01:27 AM

thanks flowmaster is all he had in stock I will start re-assembly this weekend my patriot performance top end kit arrived today and I ordered a 3200 stall from acc cconverters trans supposed to be back next week getting close I have my little boys 4-wheeler tore apart in the shop have to get it running first I hate a 2 stoke but oh well i will take some pics this weekend and post them up

**Kampz69** · 10-07-2009, 10:20 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by BudRacing

The swap is looking great so far. It's tough when you've got little midgets with hammers and lathes in your engine when it's brand new.

Also, I really like the way you've run your exhaust. It's simple, but done right; nice welds and hidden dumps. I probably would have gone a little quieter than flowmaster, but that's just because I'm tired of mine after 30k miles.

Good luck gettin it all back together!

lol, its been awhile since ive read a midget with hammers reference. i agree with your flowmaster comment, it sounded good when i first had mine installed but i got sick of it.

wikd · 10-07-2009, 07:18 PM

there is a good and a bad to the dumps... the good is... if ya get tired of the drone from flowmasters... you can always un cork that thing for a few miles...

the bad thing is... they get HOT... i had qtp electronic cutouts on my dime... was a lot of fun to have someone pull up next to my truck and rev on me... a press of the switch (did not even have to open em up all the way) usually made them stop the nonsense...

nice dime...

BudRacing · 10-08-2009, 07:53 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by wikd

there is a good and a bad to the dumps... the good is... if ya get tired of the drone from flowmasters... you can always un cork that thing for a few miles...

the bad thing is... they get HOT... i had qtp electronic cutouts on my dime... was a lot of fun to have someone pull up next to my truck and rev on me... a press of the switch (did not even have to open em up all the way) usually made them stop the nonsense...

nice dime...

When I mentioned dumps I was referring to the tailpipe exit dumped right under the roll pan/bumper rather than straight out the back. The pictures don't show cutouts on this setup.

What I really like about the dumps under the bumper is a good fall day when there's some leaves on the ground and they get blown away when you step on it to make for an elaborate take-off.

wikd · 10-09-2009, 07:05 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by BudRacing

When I mentioned dumps I was referring to the tailpipe exit dumped right under the roll pan/bumper rather than straight out the back. The pictures don't show cutouts on this setup.

What I really like about the dumps under the bumper is a good fall day when there's some leaves on the ground and they get blown away when you step on it to make for an elaborate take-off.

i thought bout that after i posted my reply... there is another one swap that shows cutouts and i was thinking to myself that i had the 2 mixed up...

mknight759 · 10-16-2009, 10:56 AM

ok quick update I'm gonna try it again i put the shortblock together then i put the new cam in now the centerline is off by 1.5 degree so i ordered a trickflow adjustable timing set why does my luck always suck nothing ever goes right anybody else have the same feeling

mknight759 · 10-16-2009, 11:01 AM

also the new acc 10in 3200 stall showed up and got trans rebuilt i got it back now he built it up to hold more i sure hope it works out this time also looking at sending heads off to get the p&p work done i may be able to get 500 at the crank with the combo

mknight759 · 10-23-2009, 08:27 PM

oh little update its running again this time we are good but i think the stall is a little high for my likeing but we will see headed for the dyno next friday as long as i don't blow it up this weekend

mknight759 · 10-30-2009, 04:27 PM

ok update on the dyno today 2nd pull working on af ratio has not adjusted timing yet 280rwhp driveshaft come apart he said that the stall is eating my numbers what do you think its a ls6 with shortie headers a 225/229 .580-.590 pp cam 3200 stall converter sure feels faster than 280hp

**s10v8drew** · 10-30-2009, 04:47 PM

^ wow, just twisted it right apart, i would say thats a little more than 280hp if it did that

Petro · 10-30-2009, 05:08 PM

MAN!!!Did it mess anything else up?? Like the gas tank???

mknight759 · 10-30-2009, 07:03 PM

no i tore the guards off the fuel tank and squashed about 8in of exhaust pipe the dyno said 280 on the dynojet but a 50 kick will turn the tires over just seems like low numbers to me

Petro · 10-30-2009, 07:11 PM

Good thing it didn't mess anything else up...I've snapped a couple of shafts and pinions in my old Bronco and it ripped the underside up...I wouldn't worry about numbers see what it'll do at the track...

mknight759 · 10-30-2009, 07:25 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Petro

Good thing it didn't mess anything else up...I've snapped a couple of shafts and pinions in my old Bronco and it ripped the underside up...I wouldn't worry about numbers see what it'll do at the track...

yea your right there just numbers im gonna have to get some tires before i see the track it will just toast the stock 235 tires and it wants to act stupid when it goes into second with the stock tires

mknight759 · 11-07-2009, 04:48 PM

ok looks like it got the trans also when the driveshaft come apart. Took the trans out yesterday it broke the taihousing and broke 3 ears off the bellhousing were it bolts to the engine. It put some pressure to it for sure looks like we may need a whole new one. This one had less than 100 miles on it. This will make the third trans for this build. I dont know if it will ever run this is getting real old.

mknight759 · 11-08-2009, 09:33 PM

ok here is a pic

FKNBMPN · 11-09-2009, 12:46 AM

Damn. How did bust the ears off the bell housing? Was the trans x-member loose or something?

Also, back to your cam install. What made your centerline come out 1.5* off? Worn out timming set, or what?

mknight759 · 11-09-2009, 07:58 AM

well nothing was loose when the driveshaft broke it just released all that energy at once something had to give it busted the trans mount also. Don't know what exactly made the centerline of the cam off. Some cams will be off you would probably never even notice that 1.5 deg. I just dialed mine in a little closer for personal preference i set it at a 110 deg centerline which made the open and closeing off about 1 deg

mknight759 · 11-14-2009, 08:07 AM

ok my junk running again the tune is off still converter locks up in 2nd gear and i went back with a stock converter to try it and thats not going to cut it it doesn't come alive untill after 4k in 3rd gear 1&2 are ok but still a little slugish gonna get all the bugs worked out then swap stalls again

09-12-2009, 08:50 PM	#51
zx9rgreen On da bottle Age: 32 Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,239 Location: Wetumpka, AL User is: OffLine	Re: s10 ls6 project congrats man.....that first startup is the best
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09-12-2009, 09:05 PM	#52
mknight759 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 320 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: s10 ls6 project i only know how to post pics if i knew how to post vids i could send one from my phone of it running i'm just glad it started up instead of blowed up
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09-12-2009, 10:26 PM	#53
mr spree Whats this for? Age: 20 Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,117 Location: Spokane WA User is: OffLine	Re: s10 ls6 project just send it to your email. download it and use photobucket to upload it
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09-13-2009, 11:25 AM	#54
NCRides Senior Member Age: 53 Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 360 Location: Amesbury Mass User is: OffLine	Re: s10 ls6 project it's running? good job and just over a month not bad...I've been on and off mine for almost 4 years and still not running.... oh well maybe this week soon as I figure out why my fuel pump won't power up
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09-18-2009, 08:30 PM	#55
mknight759 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 320 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: s10 ls6 project looks like we may have a problem it started a load squeeling i took the belt off and it still does it any suggestions
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09-18-2009, 11:28 PM	#56
TwistedKreation Under Construction Age: 29 Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 18 Location: Hopkinsville KY User is: OffLine	Re: s10 ls6 project i def woulda went with a 228r camshaft as well as the ls6 ported oil pump and double roller timing chain. and as far as the fast intake goes. man honestly save your cash and port the tb and enjoy the ls6 intake. wiend has a street warrior coming out one day thats cheaper and outperforms fast "supposedly" is this manual or auto? i think the ls1 swap is the greatest thing ever. i just sold my 99 trans am with 463rwhp and i miss it dearly. but it was time to move on lol. anyhow if you have any questions hit me up. as far a hp and track times. i would guesstimate at about 350hp and 12"S in 1/4
	[Reply w/Quote]

09-19-2009, 12:27 PM	#57
mknight759 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 320 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: s10 ls6 project ok i think the verdict is a spun cam bearing that sucks a$$ but it happens I will start the teardown tomorrow now i've lost all inspiration to finish but i'm stuck in the middle its not worth shit broke and i don't want to put any more money into it
	[Reply w/Quote]

09-19-2009, 02:12 PM	#58
platour22 no more blazer Age: 29 Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 2,286 Location: Prattville, AL User is: OffLine	Re: s10 ls6 project how does this happen on a new motor?
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09-19-2009, 02:44 PM	#59
mknight759 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 320 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: s10 ls6 project well I may not have broken it in properly or it could have been installed wrong from the factory the journal may not have been the right size hard to tell untill I get it apart but its no good to me broke just going to fix it and smile
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09-19-2009, 03:07 PM	#60
platour22 no more blazer Age: 29 Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 2,286 Location: Prattville, AL User is: OffLine	Re: s10 ls6 project were u get the motor from. Does it have warranty.
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09-19-2009, 05:37 PM	#61
mknight759 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 320 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: s10 ls6 project no i built it
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09-19-2009, 05:47 PM	#62
platour22 no more blazer Age: 29 Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 2,286 Location: Prattville, AL User is: OffLine	Re: s10 ls6 project Well i hope its not too bad when you open it up. Good luck with it.
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09-19-2009, 07:01 PM	#63
mr spree Whats this for? Age: 20 Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,117 Location: Spokane WA User is: OffLine	Re: s10 ls6 project Did you purge the engine with oil????
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09-20-2009, 12:11 AM	#64
mknight759 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 320 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: s10 ls6 project well some what i unpluged the fuel pump relay and turned it over it run fine for a little while then started this i got the engine out now gonna tear it down tomor row see what the problem is
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09-20-2009, 08:04 PM	#65
mknight759 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 320 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: s10 ls6 project well i have it apart its not a spun cam bearing there is a small something on the front bearing that may be causing it but not real sure going to take the front 2 main caps off and look to see how they look does anybody have any other suggestions Last edited by mknight759 : 12-04-2009 at 03:42 PM.
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10-01-2009, 10:45 AM	#66
platour22 no more blazer Age: 29 Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 2,286 Location: Prattville, AL User is: OffLine	Re: s10 ls6 project mknight what belt are you running. fixing to order my alternator bracket and wanna order it to. Also that pulley on the lower left of the bracket what is that. Is it included in the kit. looks like another idler pulley. Thanks man.
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10-01-2009, 04:46 PM	#67
Iroc-10 Registered User Age: 39 Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 278 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: s10 ls6 project Can you go into the squealing a little more? You said it was a load squealing? So it does not do it at idle? Did the sequel pitch change with engine rpm? And it did it with the belt off right? Is it like a metal on metal chirping/squeal? Did you try to locate it with a screw driver, by placing it on items on the engine when it was running and listening to the other end to get an idea of location? Anything to help narrow down the issue.
	[Reply w/Quote]

10-02-2009, 01:17 AM	#68
mknight759 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 320 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: s10 ls6 project PLATOUR its an idle pulley comes with the kit the belt i have is from autozone i will find the number and pm you
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10-02-2009, 01:20 AM	#69
mknight759 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 320 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: s10 ls6 project OK update on the metal to metal squeeling engine tore all the way down to bare block and found no problems trans is at a freinds trans shop getting rebuilt < cause i bought it used just going to be safe> going to pick up a tci stall converter next week < new > going to thump up the engine some with a bigger cam while its apart i put 30 miles on it and now i'm back to 0 but oh well if it doesn't work this time we gonna push it to the back of the yard and watch it rust
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10-04-2009, 06:55 PM	#70
mknight759 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 320 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: s10 ls6 project ok so i went ahead and ordered my new cam a patriot 225/229 .581 .591 gonna put a 2800 stall in also so i have my new ls6 cam springs and retainers on the chopping block in the classifieds will start assembly on the engine next week sometime can't decide wether to upgrade timing chain ,lifters & rod bolts
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10-04-2009, 07:11 PM	#71
conatus HEY WAS UP S-DIMERS Age: 24 Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 5 Location: CALI. User is: OffLine	Re: s10 ls6 project No U Didnt Liar They Stopped Making Ss In 98 And Never Made That Color
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10-04-2009, 07:25 PM	#72
mr spree Whats this for? Age: 20 Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,117 Location: Spokane WA User is: OffLine	Re: s10 ls6 project huh?^^
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10-04-2009, 07:43 PM	#73
mknight759 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 320 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: s10 ls6 project Quote: Originally Posted by conatus No U Didnt Liar They Stopped Making Ss In 98 And Never Made That Color what are you refering to ?
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10-04-2009, 10:31 PM	#74
platour22 no more blazer Age: 29 Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 2,286 Location: Prattville, AL User is: OffLine	Re: s10 ls6 project thats hillarious! This guy clearly found his way in the wrong thread.
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10-04-2009, 10:55 PM	#75
Kampz69 Need LSx swap..... Age: 31 Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 2,931 Location: SW Chicago burbs User is: OffLine	Re: s10 ls6 project lol
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10-04-2009, 11:21 PM	#76
702s10 Just turned 18 Age: 25 Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 886 Location: Las Vegas User is: OffLine	Re: s10 ls6 project He was talking about post #2...but never cared to read further.
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10-06-2009, 04:04 PM	#77
Kampz69 Need LSx swap..... Age: 31 Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 2,931 Location: SW Chicago burbs User is: OffLine	Re: s10 ls6 project Quote: Originally Posted by conatus No U Didnt Liar They Stopped Making Ss In 98 And Never Made That Color thank god for caps lock block... try reading through the entire thread before calling people liars
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10-06-2009, 04:20 PM	#78
platour22 no more blazer Age: 29 Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 2,286 Location: Prattville, AL User is: OffLine	Re: s10 ls6 project Quote: Originally Posted by 702s10 He was talking about post #2...but never cared to read further. Someone needs to teach him had to reply with quote.
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10-06-2009, 04:38 PM	#79
s10v8drew the brown turd Age: 22 Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 543 Location: Sherwood AR User is: OffLine	Re: s10 ls6 project Quote: Originally Posted by conatus No U Didnt Liar They Stopped Making Ss In 98 And Never Made That Color awesome 4th post moron i like this build, well besides the problem you ran into, at least it gave you a reason to put a little bit healthier cam in there lol Last edited by s10v8drew : 10-06-2009 at 04:41 PM.
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10-06-2009, 08:17 PM	#80
Kampz69 Need LSx swap..... Age: 31 Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 2,931 Location: SW Chicago burbs User is: OffLine	Re: s10 ls6 project lmao
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10-07-2009, 12:13 AM	#81
BudRacing Molon Labe Age: 23 Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 5,073 Location: Decatur, Ga User is: OffLine	Re: s10 ls6 project The swap is looking great so far. It's tough when you've got little midgets with hammers and lathes in your engine when it's brand new. Also, I really like the way you've run your exhaust. It's simple, but done right; nice welds and hidden dumps. I probably would have gone a little quieter than flowmaster, but that's just because I'm tired of mine after 30k miles. Good luck gettin it all back together!
	[Reply w/Quote]

10-07-2009, 01:27 AM	#82
mknight759 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 320 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: s10 ls6 project thanks flowmaster is all he had in stock I will start re-assembly this weekend my patriot performance top end kit arrived today and I ordered a 3200 stall from acc cconverters trans supposed to be back next week getting close I have my little boys 4-wheeler tore apart in the shop have to get it running first I hate a 2 stoke but oh well i will take some pics this weekend and post them up
	[Reply w/Quote]

10-07-2009, 10:20 AM	#83
Kampz69 Need LSx swap..... Age: 31 Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 2,931 Location: SW Chicago burbs User is: OffLine	Re: s10 ls6 project Quote: Originally Posted by BudRacing The swap is looking great so far. It's tough when you've got little midgets with hammers and lathes in your engine when it's brand new. Also, I really like the way you've run your exhaust. It's simple, but done right; nice welds and hidden dumps. I probably would have gone a little quieter than flowmaster, but that's just because I'm tired of mine after 30k miles. Good luck gettin it all back together! lol, its been awhile since ive read a midget with hammers reference. i agree with your flowmaster comment, it sounded good when i first had mine installed but i got sick of it.
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10-07-2009, 07:18 PM	#84
wikd Registered User Age: 41 Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 40 Location: Knoxville tn User is: OffLine	Re: s10 ls6 project there is a good and a bad to the dumps... the good is... if ya get tired of the drone from flowmasters... you can always un cork that thing for a few miles... the bad thing is... they get HOT... i had qtp electronic cutouts on my dime... was a lot of fun to have someone pull up next to my truck and rev on me... a press of the switch (did not even have to open em up all the way) usually made them stop the nonsense... nice dime...
	[Reply w/Quote]

10-08-2009, 07:53 PM	#85
BudRacing Molon Labe Age: 23 Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 5,073 Location: Decatur, Ga User is: OffLine	Re: s10 ls6 project Quote: Originally Posted by wikd there is a good and a bad to the dumps... the good is... if ya get tired of the drone from flowmasters... you can always un cork that thing for a few miles... the bad thing is... they get HOT... i had qtp electronic cutouts on my dime... was a lot of fun to have someone pull up next to my truck and rev on me... a press of the switch (did not even have to open em up all the way) usually made them stop the nonsense... nice dime... When I mentioned dumps I was referring to the tailpipe exit dumped right under the roll pan/bumper rather than straight out the back. The pictures don't show cutouts on this setup. What I really like about the dumps under the bumper is a good fall day when there's some leaves on the ground and they get blown away when you step on it to make for an elaborate take-off.
	[Reply w/Quote]