LSx and stock 5 speed

[chriszr2]

Now I have searched and read other threads. All people say is the NV3500 is weak. Which I think is not exactly fair. I have towed lots of weight, cross country, several times with my truck. It has 200k plus miles and no trans issues. Has anyone done it though? The 4.3 and the LSx use the same bellhousing correct? I have put a corvette bellhousing on the back of a 4.3 and it all seems the same. The only things I can think of are the hardware and dowels for the 4.3 are standard while the LSx is metric but the bolt pattern and the crank center are the same. I don't plan on running the stock trans forever. I will eventually get an NV4500 from a Silverado. The reason for not using a T56 is that my truck is a ZR2 and I plan to keep it 4wd. I saw where a guy put a 5.3 truck motor I think in a ZR2 but his was an auto. Next question would be, what flywheel to use? Do the two flywheels share bolt pattern? If so I just use the s-10 flywheel and clutch for now and when the time comes, I get the silverado flywheel and clutch to go along with the NV4500.

[tippmann243]

the manual trans from a 4.3 will NOT work behind an LSx based motor

[chriszr2]

Quote: Originally Posted by tippmann243

the manual trans from a 4.3 will NOT work behind an LSx based motor

Can you elaborate?

[1BadElky]

wont bolt up

[chriszr2]

Why won't it bolt up?

[chriszr2]

Well I have here, a 4.3 V6 and a bellhousing for a C5 corvette. It goes on there like I said. It doesen't have the top bolt hole, and the right hand hole between the top hole and the two bottom holes. The means it uses 5 of 7 bolts. The dowel pins are in the right spot, just smaller on the 4.3. The crank center appears to be the same too. So I ask why does an LSx not bolt up to an NV3500. Is it input shaft issues? Crank centerline?

[philntx]

Torque capacity.

It’s all aluminum with a 4.02:1 first gear and a 285lbs-ft input torque rating. (courtesy GM Powertrain)

An LS1 in stock configuration is at least 325+

Add to that, the 31"+ tall tires, 200K+ miles, and your first "strong" 1-2 or 2-3 shift will eventually create a lot of "extra" parts inside the transmission.

[chriszr2]

[chriszr2]

Quote: Originally Posted by philntx

Torque capacity.

It’s all aluminum with a 4.02:1 first gear and a 285lbs-ft input torque rating. (courtesy GM Powertrain)

An LS1 in stock configuration is at least 325+

Add to that, the 31"+ tall tires, 200K+ miles, and your first "strong" 1-2 or 2-3 shift will eventually create a lot of "extra" parts inside the transmission.

This is not about, is it strong enough. I know it is not the ideal trans. I have the motor right now. I don't have the NV4500. It costs alot and it will come later.

[andrew69_04]

it might bolt up just fine....but it will not hold up is what were trying to get at....especially with the mileage your tranny has on it.

[chriszr2]

Please no need for any further comments about the strength of the trans. I know it is not as strong as needed for this engine. People here have said it will not bolt up. I want to hear from them why not?

[philntx]

Put them together and see if they'll work.

Go down to a salvage yard and get a scrap NV3500 for a trial fit.

[chriszr2]

I may have to do that. I really don't want my truck to be down for too long, so I need to be sure that this will work.

[Petterle]

if you were swapping an a 5.7 it would work

[chriszr2]

Well why won't it work with the LS?

[philntx]

Sorry, the S10 Version of the NV350 comes with a 3.49 first gear. The V8 Version of the trans has the 4.02

Here's a pic of the NV3500



Back of a 5.3 engine (same as an LS1)

[philntx]

Check with these guys:

"Non-OE transmission swaps will require a spacer adapter and a custom flywheel/flexplate. McLeod (714/630-3668) offers modular bellhousings for non-OE manual transmission swaps."

[Petterle]

Quote: Originally Posted by chriszr2

Well why won't it work with the LS?

different bellhousing bolt paterns

[philntx]

Do you know this from personal experience with your swap?

[Petterle]

i was talking about why it wont directly bolt up

[chriszr2]

Well if you see my picture above, that is a C5 corvette bellhousing bolted to a 4.3 V6. So they bolt together.

[chriszr2]

Quote: Originally Posted by philntx

Check with these guys:

"Non-OE transmission swaps will require a spacer adapter and a custom flywheel/flexplate. McLeod (714/630-3668) offers modular bellhousings for non-OE manual transmission swaps."

Where is this quote from? Out of context, I don't know what it refers to.

[philntx]

I would defer your question to this forum. You'll have better response:

http://www.performancetrucks.net/for...splay.php?f=22

Go to the Drivetrain/Transmission section.

[chriszr2]

Thanks

[andrew69_04]

just put it in. It might only use 3 bolts but do it anyways.

[chriszr2]

It uses 5 bolts. With some more research, there seems to be a dodge version of the NV3500. NV3500HD. It is rated at 350ftlbs. Maybe I can swap internals from one of those? We shall see.

[Sherk]

The NV3500 would work, but it's going to be more money than it's really worth to make it work (in my opinion).

Reason I say... I have an LT1 T56 with a Weir Hot Rod bellhousing/throwout bearing (to use with a standard push-style clutch, this is NOT an LT1 setup anymore folks). It was freshly rebuilt by me so I know the condition of everything inside, and I didn't want to tear it apart for anything (LS input shaft), so I bought the conversion flywheel.

Physical dimensions of the 2 transmissions (NV3500 and my custom T56) on how they hook up is exactly the same. I have a 4.3 with an NV3500 sitting on the floor of my dad's pole barn so I went and measured stuff.

From the edge of the block where the transmission bolts up to the face of the flywheel was exactly .400" different. The LS1 flywheel sat closer to the block on my engine. I had a .400" thick spacer plate that was behind the stock flexplate, but the flywheel bolts were not long enough to pass through both, and I would have had starter alignment issues (wouldn't have connected with the ring gear). A thicker face flywheel is the solution...

You'll have to have a clutch plate that has 10 splines x 1 1/8 inch, instead of the stock LS 26 spline. McLeod sells an adapter flywheel that's .400" thicker than stock (so yes it's heavier than an LS1 flywheel, 31 lbs). McLeod part number 460535.

I picked mine up from a place called Byunspeed (Summit and Jegs would have had to order them and then ship to me, ~10 days before shipment to me, they said). Byunspeed drop-shipped it from the manufacturer and it was there 4 business days later. Pretty good. It's not cheap, ~$420, but it works.

[91sonomast]

your going to have alot of money wrapped up in a "just for now" setup. hold off a little longer and buy the trans you want and do the swap then. if not your going to hate to part with the NV3500 because of all the money in it, but you arent going to beable to use the power because your afraid of grenading your Nv3500.

[chriszr2]

What about the 4.3 flywheel? It doesen't have the same bolt pattern as the LS crank? Or it would not allow starter engagement? I am just guessing but I would think you could use the standard LS1 flywheel and clutch disc to match the NV3500 input. The .400 difference I think could be made up for on the splines of the NV input shaft. As in I think the NV input shaft engages the stock clutch disc with room to spare, not just the very beginning of the splines. Then I could easily make an extension to hold the pilot bearing.

[chriszr2]

I wouldn't be afraid to keep the NV3500 if I can figure out how to use the HD internals from a dodge, actually from a 4.0 straight six jeep. The nv4500 is 100lbs or so heavier than the 3500.

[THEKING]

why not just do a 4l60e?

[chriszr2]

Quote: Originally Posted by THEKING

why not just do a 4l60e?

I dislike automatics.

[91sonomast]

Quote: Originally Posted by chriszr2

What about the 4.3 flywheel? It doesen't have the same bolt pattern as the LS crank? Or it would not allow starter engagement? I am just guessing but I would think you could use the standard LS1 flywheel and clutch disc to match the NV3500 input. The .400 difference I think could be made up for on the splines of the NV input shaft. As in I think the NV input shaft engages the stock clutch disc with room to spare, not just the very beginning of the splines. Then I could easily make an extension to hold the pilot bearing.

did u not read post #27? it gives u the answers
why put HD internals? Why not just replace it with a 4500?

[chriszr2]

Quote: Originally Posted by 91sonomast

did u not read post #27? it gives u the answers
why put HD internals? Why not just replace it with a 4500?

I think that the contents of my post, that you quoted, would indicate that I read post #27. I was putting an alternate idea out there. One that didn't involve a $400 flywheel. One that would use things that I have. did u not read post #30? The 4500 is 100lbs or more heavier than the 3500. No to mention I would need the tcase to go along with it, as well as different driveshafts. If you are not going to help please refrain from posting.

[RedLsxS10]

Quote: Originally Posted by chriszr2

I think that the contents of my post, that you quoted, would indicate that I read post #27. I was putting an alternate idea out there. One that didn't involve a $400 flywheel. One that would use things that I have. did u not read post #30? The 4500 is 100lbs or more heavier than the 3500. No to mention I would need the tcase to go along with it, as well as different driveshafts. If you are not going to help please refrain from posting.

Do you already have these HD Dodge internals? If not, how does their price compare to that of the $400 flywheel?

[chriszr2]

Point being that the $400 would be a waste if I did go to the 4500 in the future. If I can figure out the HD internals, then the $400 would not be a waste but at the same time, I think I can do without the $400 flywheel either way. I like to make things when I can, rather than paying for them.

[chriszr2]

I think I can use the vette flywheel with the s10 clutch and pressure plate.

[tippmann243]

ok im gonna put an end to all the misinformation in this thread.

the 4.3 trans will not work becuase the input shaft is to short, it would not reach the piliot bushing in the crank.

the crank on an lsx motor is recessed into the block further then its older counterparts.

auto guys can run non lsx based trans with a crank spacer. manual guys could do that but the input shaft would prolly snap after the first time the motor was fired/driven.

[chriszr2]

Quote: Originally Posted by tippmann243

ok im gonna put an end to all the misinformation in this thread.

the 4.3 trans will not work becuase the input shaft is to short, it would not reach the piliot bushing in the crank.

the crank on an lsx motor is recessed into the block further then its older counterparts.

auto guys can run non lsx based trans with a crank spacer. manual guys could do that but the input shaft would prolly snap after the first time the motor was fired/driven.

What misinformation? What you said goes along with the .400" difference that was stated above. In my experience, input shafts tend to engage the clutch disc and then some. Most likely that leaves room to use a standard LS1 flywheel and still have engagement on the splines. Then you make an extension for the pilot bearing to bring it out to engage the input shaft. No I don't know this for sure but I will confirm, if it will work or not, once I get a mockup trans to use.

[tippmann243]

Quote: Originally Posted by chriszr2

What misinformation? What you said goes along with the .400" difference that was stated above. In my experience, input shafts tend to engage the clutch disc and then some. Most likely that leaves room to use a standard LS1 flywheel and still have engagement on the splines. Then you make an extension for the pilot bearing to bring it out to engage the input shaft. No I don't know this for sure but I will confirm, if it will work or not, once I get a mockup trans to use.

LT1 t56:
input shaft length - 5.31in
splines - 26
input shaft dieameter(roughly) - 1.19in
bellhousing depth(to machined surface on front plate) - 5.5in

LS1 t56:
inputshaft length - 7.25
splines - 26
inputshaft diameter(roughly) - 1.19
bellhousing depth (to machined surface on front plate) - 6.25

[chriszr2]

Quote: Originally Posted by tippmann243

LT1 t56:
input shaft length - 5.31in
splines - 26
input shaft dieameter(roughly) - 1.19in
bellhousing depth(to machined surface on front plate) - 5.5in

LS1 t56:
inputshaft length - 7.25
splines - 26
inputshaft diameter(roughly) - 1.19
bellhousing depth (to machined surface on front plate) - 6.25

Please explain what you posted here. It doesn't seem to have any relevance to the situation.

[tippmann243]

Quote: Originally Posted by chriszr2

Please explain what you posted here. It doesn't seem to have any relevance to the situation.

an lt1 transmission has the same input specs as the nv3500 from the 4.3.

the ls1 input shaft is longer to accomidate the recessed crank and the concentric slave cylinder.

but if you do the math you dont get .400"

[91sonomast]

you have somewhere close to an inch difference if i did my math right. should be .81 difference. you might beable to do this, but its going to take alot of random parts, you are going to buy alot of parts you arent going to need in the end in the effort of finding a combination thats going to work, your going to have to experiment with starters, flywheels, clutches, all kind of stuff, or find someone who has successfully done it, i think AceHaag is running a NV4500, thats the only person i know of who is using a NV trans. good luck in ur new venture(lol), i think your going to end up wasting alot of money trying to use a 3500, by the time u buy the internals and stuff, but i have been wrong before.

[AceHaag]

i am running a 4l80e

[chriszr2]

Ok so if the real difference is as much as the math indicates, then that is too much. I think we still need to know flywheel face positions on both an LS1 and 4.3 . I am going to measure what I can and get back in here

[91sonomast]

Quote: Originally Posted by AceHaag

i am running a 4l80e

my bad, i thought u ran a 4500. How close is St. Francis MN to International Falls/ Fort Francis, ON?

[AceHaag]

Quote: Originally Posted by 91sonomast

my bad, i thought u ran a 4500. How close is St. Francis MN to International Falls/ Fort Francis, ON?

about 275 miles

[MPETESS10]

THE JEEP TRANS IS AN NV3550. not sure how similar it is to a 3500 but it has a different name