LS6 Cam Vs. Comp Extreme Cam

[Chevy8585]

what do you all think about these two cams? my swap is going to be an Iron Block LS1 with an LS6 intake and LS1 (241 casting) ported heads, im looking for a good cam that i can use for good OVERALL Range of power and to have some decent MPG, would either of these work well with my application???

Oh, here are the specs: 2001 LS6 .545/.525 Lift 211/204 Duration 116 LSA

2002-2003 LS6 .551/.555 Lift 218/204 Duration 117.5 LSA

Comp Cams Extreme: .525/.532 Lift 216/220 Duration 114 LSA

[RedLsxS10]

Quote: Originally Posted by Chevy8585

what do you all think about these two cams? my swap is going to be an Iron Block LS1 with an LS6 intake and LS1 (241 casting) ported heads, im looking for a good cam that i can use for good OVERALL Range of power and to have some decent MPG, would either of these work well with my application???

Oh, here are the specs: 2001 LS6 .545/.525 Lift 211/204 Duration 116 LSA

2002-2003 LS6 .551/.555 Lift 218/204 Duration 117.5 LSA

Comp Cams Extreme: .525/.532 Lift 216/220 Duration 114 LSA

Don't quote me but I'm pretty sure that Black X ran that Comp Cam (216/220) in his 5.3l and that it is the cam he was running when he was getting 27ish miles per gallon.

To add- There is nothing wrong with the LS6 cams.. if it were me and I were choosing between LS6 cams I would go with the 02-03 LS6 cam.

But for the cost I would say that the comp would be the way to go, besides IIRC that Comp cams power range is 1600-6800, or close to it.

[Chevy8585]

Quote: Originally Posted by cavmattz24

Don't quote me but I'm pretty sure that Black X ran that Comp Cam (216/220) in his 5.3l and that it is the cam he was running when he was getting 27ish miles per gallon.

To add- There is nothing wrong with the LS6 cams.. if it were me and I were choosing between LS6 cams I would go with the 02-03 LS6 cam.

But for the cost I would say that the comp would be the way to go, besides IIRC that Comp cams power range is 1600-6800, or close to it.

lol, yeah cavmatt you are correct about X using it, i pm'ed him to find out which one it was that he went with

[SweetS10V8]

I would go with the Comp Cams cam, they specifically make stuff to add power. The tighter LSA will help too. Here are some dyno graphs of a that cam.

http://www.ls1build.com/LS1-Horsepower/Stage3.asp

[THUMPERC25]

to use the comp cam extreme are any other mods required or suggested?

[v8power]

I have a 212/218 115 lsa in my colorado now and it runs great. I'm taking it out and going with a larger comp cam since I'm going with a t56 .

[SweetS10V8]

Quote: Originally Posted by THUMPERC25

to use the comp cam extreme are any other mods required or suggested?

Whats your budget? what are your goals?

I would get pushrods and the new 918s for sure....

[Big96Zr2]

I am running the LS6 cam in my 5.3 and I am very pleased with it. I got mine super cheap, thats the only reason I changed the cam.

[THUMPERC25]

Quote: Originally Posted by SweetS10V8

Whats your budget? what are your goals?

I would get pushrods and the new 918s for sure....

well, no real budget just a project build, but would like it on the low side since i'm still getting all the parts to put it in my blazer. goals?not really going to push it but would like to kick some ass when needed. but would like it to last with no worries

[SweetS10V8]

cam, matching springs, pushrods, used FAST 90mm intake......

[Christobevii3]

I have the higher lift version of that comp cam in my 5.3L. All I did to run it was put the yellow z06 valve springs on it. I haven't put it through the paces yet, so just pm me in a week or two and I can tell you how it goes.

[lilsonoma]

I have a custom grind camshaft for sale if you're interested that would work wonders in a 5.7L designed to haul ass. It makes impressive cylinder pressure with the high lift and was ground for a Corvette LS1 but the customer backed out of the deal after the cam was made.

Specs:
224in/228ex
.581in/.588ex
114lsa +1
113 intake center line

PM me for details.

[philntx]

[quote=Chevy8585;5162932]my swap is going to be an Iron Block LS1

Where did you find this?

I'm using this baby cam:
XR265HR-15 High Lift Comp Cam
212/218
.558/.563
115 LSA
1,500 to 6,800 range

Comp push rods, valve springs and ARP fasteners

[lilsonoma]

[quote=philntx;5191796]

Quote: Originally Posted by Chevy8585

my swap is going to be an Iron Block LS1

Where did you find this?

I'm using this baby cam:
XR265HR-15 High Lift Comp Cam
212/218
.558/.563
115 LSA
1,500 to 6,800 range

Comp push rods, valve springs and ARP fasteners

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...autoview=s ku

[AmericanMuscle]

The Texas Speed Torquer 2 232/234 .595/.598 Camshaft With Your Choice of Lobe Seperation
lsa at 112...

how much would this kill my mpg and could it pass inspection? no sniffer just obd reading.

[lilsonoma]

Sorry to break it to ya, but already your gas mileage is going out the door with all your 'mods' in your signature. I'd bring that cam WAAY down along with your converter and head choice. If you're looking for raw power, keep what you have. N/A you can't have it all, at least not yet.

Edit: I'm not sure about emissions either. My state doesn't require emissions testing so I've never had to deal with setting a vehicle up to pass.

[philntx]

[quote=lilsonoma;5192090]

Quote: Originally Posted by philntx

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CCA%2D54%2D424%2D11&autoview=s ku

Sorry, I was referring to his "iron block LS1"

[lilsonoma]

Quote: Originally Posted by philntx

Sorry, I was referring to his "iron block LS1"

Ahh...you bore the 5.3L block 0.118" over and use 99mm "LS1/6" pistons during the rebuild. I know 0.118" seems like a lot but there is enough block material for a .148" overbore if needed. Ends up at a 346 cubic inch iron block 5.7L, so many refer to it as the iron block LS1.

[philntx]

PM sent

[AmericanMuscle]

Quote: Originally Posted by lilsonoma

Sorry to break it to ya, but already your gas mileage is going out the door with all your 'mods' in your signature. I'd bring that cam WAAY down along with your converter and head choice. If you're looking for raw power, keep what you have. N/A you can't have it all, at least not yet.

Edit: I'm not sure about emissions either. My state doesn't require emissions testing so I've never had to deal with setting a vehicle up to pass.

point taken. asking about the cam because I could get a great deal on it, but I was already sure it was a no. the converter is what is already in the truck. thanks for the advice, i tend to go a little too far till someone makes me realize what I'm doing.

[lilsonoma]

What's the 5.3L going to be used for?

[AmericanMuscle]

Quote: Originally Posted by lilsonoma

What's the 5.3L going to be used for?

nothing more then fun, shouldn't ever be towing anything or even hauling anything more then what fits in the bed. daily for the most part with some trips to the track when time allows for it. i don't think i'll be getting 27mpg in it, but I would like to at least be in the 20s on the highway.

[lilsonoma]

Well, let's re-think your 'mod' list then.

Do not install the following in bold.

"00 shortbed- in process of 5.3 and 4l60e swap. cam, stage 2.5 ls6 heads, 2500 stall, shift kit and racing clutches."

Stock 243 heads will flow more than you're ready for, I guarantee you that. Finding a set of those, however, is fairly difficult for a low price within the average college student's budget. Then they'll be used, requiring a clean up and most likely a small amount milled off to true up the surfaces. A stage 1 port and polish will be above and beyond what you need, especially on a 5.3L. Stock valves, "yellow" LS6 valve springs for .550 lift will suit the bill just fine on a daily driver. When you get into the .580-.6xx lift numbers, dual valve springs are damn near a must to control the aggressive cam ramps which lead to early spring failure and noisy idle.

The 2500 stall, though a common choice for many LSx goers, is not very friendly for a daily driver. Good for a 1/4 mile terror that sees more track than street, but if this is your daily you wont want a high stall. This will invite increased heat and earlier transmission failure due to all the wear and slippage associated with higher stall converters. Your gas mileage will plummet, nor will it be fun to drive to and from school/work without giving it a lot of gas. I'd drop the converter down to stock, seriously, or just a little higher. 2200 MAX.

I'm not sure what you meant by racing clutches but I would be careful when rebuilding a 4L60E. It's very easy to go overboard and buy more than what's really needed. For a daily driver, weekend warrior, a transmission cooler will be your greatest ally in keeping the transmission alive. I find the largest spot between the frame rails and park a transmission cooler there. The smallest cooler I've used is 3/4"x15"x7" and that's on a V6/4L60E 2wd. All you'd need is a master overhaul kit, Corvette servo, "Beast" sunshell and a good transmission pan to add a few quarts of fluid. Note that I did not say a billet servo, Transgo shift kit, Z-pack clutches or kevlar bands. Tune the transmission via a computer to make up for the lack of servo, add the Transgo kit if money allows, and keep heat out of the tranny with the cooler to avoid the need for the heavy duty clutches. Simple as that.

The XR265 high lift camshaft would be a good choice for what I think your iron block LS1 would see. However, it is a cam too aggressive for a bone stock 5.3L. The standard XR265 would do very well instead, especially after a tune to recognize the cam.

This is the cam I refer to: 212/218, .522/.529 on a 114 LSA. Basic operating range within the 5.7L is 1200-6000, take off 21 cubic inches when crammed into the 5.3L and you're looking at roughly 1300-6400 for a rev range.
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CCA%2D54%2D412%2D11&autoview=s ku

This is the way I see a daily driver and weekend warrior get 20+ mpg and return over 100k miles of reliability.

EDIT: A good rule of thumb is to find the camshaft that you really really want, then step down in "size" one step. The idea that bigger is always better doesn't apply to camshafts.

[AmericanMuscle]

the tranny was built by the head mech at cottman transmissions, I can trade the 2500 for a smaller stall without problem. the clutches are just the clutches that are in each gear, they have higher friction for taking more load, the steels for each gear was also upgraded and aftermaket servo's were put in. the guy I got it from was planning on turbo'ing the 5.3 so the tranny was built up to take that.

ls6 heads with stock springs go for around $500 on e-bay, and if I get a set they will need to be milled anyways to get the compression back to stock or better. the issue of the heads will be addressed tonight. I am not so much on a college kids buget right now, but I am trying to get the most out of what I spend.

again thank you for the advice, if you don't mind I'll be asking it more often.

[philntx]

I also concur with lilsonoma on his recommendations for what "we think" you are looking for.

In addition, you should probably keep your drive ratio either a 3.42 (good compromise for daily driving/fun) or a 3.08 (better gas mileage, give up a little on accelleration)

Keep your tire diameter in the 26" range for the 3.42's. You could go a taller tire, say a 29" diameter for highway mileage.

I'd spend my (your) money on a nice set of mildly ported/cleaned up heads and a good cooling system.

[AmericanMuscle]

since I have the 03 ls6 cam already would this be a good option or would the other one be better? I can get what I spent for the cam so switching to that one wont be an issue if its better.

[AmericanMuscle]

Quote: Originally Posted by philntx

I also concur with lilsonoma on his recommendations for what "we think" you are looking for.

In addition, you should probably keep your drive ratio either a 3.42 (good compromise for daily driving/fun) or a 3.08 (better gas mileage, give up a little on accelleration)

Keep your tire diameter in the 26" range for the 3.42's. You could go a taller tire, say a 29" diameter for highway mileage.

I'd spend my (your) money on a nice set of mildly ported/cleaned up heads and a good cooling system.

I'm planning on running 3.42s- -3.55s if I run larger tires.


cam question: is there an option for a good street cam that has a rougher idle?

[Christobevii3]

A good street cam shouldn't have a rough idle really. Even my comp camps 265hr high lift isn't that rough at all. It is rated for like 1500rpm to 6800rpm. I'd just use the ls6 one since you have it, it is a little better than the stock ls1 ones and better than the 5.3's.

Link to my cam
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CCA%2D54%2D424%2D11&autoview=s ku

[lilsonoma]

I don't blame you for wanting a cam with a rough idle. Most guys who are still parts chasing for their first motor tend to follow the guys who have high horsepower builds under the hood and radical camshafts. The "lopey" sound at idle means nothing more than the camshaft is not suited for the application if this is a daily driver. Start up ANY...and I do mean any...truck on the streets with a V8 today built by GM and you wont hear a lopey idle. This crackling and sputtering is a sign that the motor is backfiring and gasping for air, making quick adjustments to prevent the motor from dieing due to the aggressiveness of the cam. To the untrained ear, it sounds cool and means nothing more than the cam will pull to ridiculous red lines. To those who know what a daily driver camshaft is, a motor failing to idle is loud, annoying and rather obtrusive to something we think you can just turn the key and put in Drive.

Christobevii3's camshaft would be a good cam if you had a little more displacement or this wasn't a daily driver. Honestly if this was my truck and a 5.3L, I'd go with that high lift XR265 simply because I do not mind swapping valve springs every 15-20k miles when they wear out. I wouldn't however do that on something I rely on to get to important things like school, work, dates ect. When you turn the key and you have your girlfriend, wife or recent hotty sitting in the passenger seat, there should be no doubt in your mind that you'll be bringing her home that night in your own vehicle...not the tow truck or taxi cab.

You mentioned 3.55's. Great choice, and I say that simply because I know what rear end you're thinking of when you say that gear selection. The 8.8 should already be in place when you turn the key for the first time. 3.55's and 26.8" tall tires would make for a wonderful street machine even by my own picky standards. You're talking about 2100 rpms at 70mph cruising. Perfect! With the right combo of parts, 25mpg and 325-335rwhp is still within reach. With a great tune, even more of both fuel efficiency and power. A mild 5.3L, built 4L60E, 8.8 rear end with disc brakes and the Traction-Lok mechanical locker...ooo ahhh...sounds like my kind of a build. You'll be in the low 13's if you can put the power to the ground, maybe even really high 12's AND 25mpg. What more could a college student want?

[lilsonoma]

Quote: Originally Posted by AmericanMuscle

since I have the 03 ls6 cam already would this be a good option or would the other one be better? I can get what I spent for the cam so switching to that one wont be an issue if its better.

Cam specs:

204/218 int/exh @ 0.05" duration
0.551" / 0.547" int/exh lift
117 LSA

Great cam. I'd use it in your build along with the slightly higher lift springs then to accommodate the lift of the cam. I believe they are the "orange" springs from the LS6. Ebay those if you plan to keep the cam, which by the way I think is the best choice I've seen in your build thus far.

[Christobevii3]

That ls6 cam is speced so close to the 265hr and will have a better low end, that I wouldn't even consider spending the money on another cam. Mine is probably a bit much to daily drive on, but oh well anything beats the v6.

Remember when looking at the ls1 forums too on cams, those guys all have insanely high lift cams and even a "mild" cam for them is wayyy out there.

Grab the gold ls6 springs, they are like $60 on ebay.

[lilsonoma]

I have seen conflicting information about these "yellow"/"gold" springs. Many say that they are good for .550 lift, but yet on here Lingenfelter says .580" lift.

http://www.lingenfelter.com/store/12499224.html

These are the springs I'm using on my 5.7L build with the XR259 camshaft from CompCams. Either way with that cam I'm safe, but for my sake I honestly hope they're not .580" lift. Either way for $53 bucks new, not a bad deal.

Edit: Afterthought; the 117 lobe separation angle will move the peak torque band up a few hundred rpms while also making the motor idle smooth and pull hard up top without the sacrifice in daily driveability. It's not a camshaft suited for a truck hauling heavy loads but in a 3500lbs "fun" truck, it'll do wonders. I too could not justify spending more on a camshaft if you have that in your hands.

[AmericanMuscle]

thanks, and yes I have been looking at "mild" and "daily" cams over at ls1 tech and other ls1 forums or articles. it seems that having .600 or more lift is when it starts to get on the higher mild side on those places.

i'll swap down to around a 2000 stall? and will look into ls6 heads milled down or getting mine ported.(or finding a deal on ported 4.8s or 5.3s). but I'll post anything else or any other questions in another thread, I've stole enough of this of this one.

[SweetS10V8]

Quote: Originally Posted by AmericanMuscle

thanks, and yes I have been looking at "mild" and "daily" cams over at ls1 tech and other ls1 forums or articles. it seems that having .600 or more lift is when it starts to get on the higher mild side on those places.

Ive read about new lobes from Comp Cams, LSL Lobes. I think Im going to run one in mine when I get ready to swap cams. Im thinking 219/224 @ .050, .607/.610 on a 113 LSA....

Should make for a fairly smooth idle quality, yet have tons of area to make power. I mean it has to be moving quickly to only have 215 @ .050 and make it to .607 and back in that time!

[philntx]

Quote: Originally Posted by lilsonoma

Edit: Afterthought; the 117 lobe separation angle will move the peak torque band up a few hundred rpms while also making the motor idle smooth and pull hard up top without the sacrifice in daily driveability. It's not a camshaft suited for a truck hauling heavy loads but in a 3500lbs "fun" truck, it'll do wonders. I too could not justify spending more on a camshaft if you have that in your hands.

O.P. Take a ride in an 02-03 Z06! They weigh around 3,100 lbs, so your truck will not be much heavier.

This is a great starter cam!

[lilsonoma]

Quote: Originally Posted by philntx

O.P. Take a ride in an 02-03 Z06!

I'll have to come down one of these days and take you up on that.

[NateZQ8]

So swapping to GM part number 12565308 (02 Z06 Cam) with a stock LS1 setup requires new (yellow or orange) valve springs and that is it??? I am very interested in the LS6 cam above, and from these postings it seems like a good choice for a daily and a first cam upgrade with the stocker ls1 heads and 5.7L displacement.

Here is the listing for the listing for 12565308

http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results...ges=1&pkgid=57

550"intake and exhasut lift-218 degree exhaust duration, and 204 degree intake duration at .050, and 117.5 degree lobe centers. Z06-Specific Higher Lift Camshaft As the intake air comes through the manifolds in greater volume, it is important for the air to enter the combustion chamber as quickly as possible to produce power. The LS6 engine has a camshaft that has higher lift lobes than the LS1, resulting in a 5 percent increase in airflow through the cylinder chamber.


not too bad for 250
Thanks
Nate

[lilsonoma]

It is my understanding that even LS1 guys with stock cams have trouble with their stock springs. The highest LS1 cam lifts at .496" which the springs are good for just above that. Swapping springs costs $53 bucks, which is a drop in the bucket for a well completed motor swap.

[philntx]

Quote: Originally Posted by NateZQ8

So swapping to GM part number 12565308 (02 Z06 Cam) with a stock LS1 setup requires new (yellow or orange) valve springs and that is it??? I am very interested in the LS6 cam above, and from these postings it seems like a good choice for a daily and a first cam upgrade with the stocker ls1 heads and 5.7L displacement.

Here is the listing for the listing for 12565308

http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results...ges=1&pkgid=57

550"intake and exhasut lift-218 degree exhaust duration, and 204 degree intake duration at .050, and 117.5 degree lobe centers. Z06-Specific Higher Lift Camshaft As the intake air comes through the manifolds in greater volume, it is important for the air to enter the combustion chamber as quickly as possible to produce power. The LS6 engine has a camshaft that has higher lift lobes than the LS1, resulting in a 5 percent increase in airflow through the cylinder chamber.


not too bad for 250
Thanks
Nate

Nate, over on the Corvette forums, these take-out cams go for about $100

[NateZQ8]

Oh even better, i was looking over at LS1tech.com, but as always a bit weary to buy used parts......as long as 12565308 is stamped on the cam its good ........right

Thanks

[lilsonoma]

Quote: Originally Posted by NateZQ8

Oh even better, i was looking over at LS1tech.com, but as always a bit weary to buy used parts......as long as 12565308 is stamped on the cam its good ........right

Thanks

ALWAYS ASK FOR PICTURES! Look for nicks, dings and odd wear. Hopefully it will look shiny and smooth on every single lobe.

[brentg454]

Not trying to hijack, but I've got a brand-new LS6 cam from GM that I don't need if the OP or anybody else is interested. Email to brentg@iri-oiltool.com if interested. $200 shipped

...and I can give you pictures, too, haha...

[lilsonoma]

Quote: Originally Posted by brentg454

Not trying to hijack, but I've got a brand-new LS6 cam from GM that I don't need if the OP or anybody else is interested. Email to brentg@iri-oiltool.com if interested. $200 shipped

...and I can give you pictures, too, haha...

They're all over the net for $100-150 shipped, I've even seen them go for $70 plus shipping which is $12-15 dollars.

[AmericanMuscle]

new info on cams.
01 ls6-This camshaft is original equipment in LS6 engines. It features .525" intake and exhaust lift, 217 degree exhaust duration at .050", 207 degree intake duration at .050", and 116 degree lobe centers
02+ ls6 cam-.550"intake and exhasut lift-218 degree exhaust duration, and 204 degree intake duration at .050, and 117.5 degree lobe centers. Z06-Specific Higher Lift Camshaft As the intake air comes through the manifolds in greater volume, it is important for the air to enter the combustion chamber as quickly as possible to produce power. The LS6 engine has a camshaft that has higher lift lobes than the LS1, resulting in a 5 percent increase in airflow through the cylinder chamber.

so it works out too
01 cam- 207,217 .525/.525 at 116lsa
02+ cam-204,218 .550/.550 at 117.5lsa

with these specs which would be better for the 5.3? the lift and duration along with lsa are closer too the comp cam on the 01 cam, and if you use 1.8 rockers you will get .555 lift. but with the 5.3 you wouldn't even need that.


EDIT: these specs are from gm parts direct. http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results...ges=1&pkgid=57 cams GM PART # 12560950
and GM PART # 12565308

[lilsonoma]

I would go with the 02 cam, "orange" .580+ lift springs and stock 1.7 rockers. It will idle better, pull harder up top with no sacrifice to low end, while make more cylinder pressure with the aggressive camp ramps. You'd be looking at about a 1200-6000 rpm operating range in a 5.3L. In a 5.7L that would be pulled down to about 1000-5800.

[AmericanMuscle]

damn, I got my cam today and its the 01 version, pissed me the hell off but when i looked up the specs the 01 looks better for the most part besides the lift, and the lift was close to what the comp cam is so I thought it might be better for the 5.3.

[Christobevii3]

Eh, i'd just use it. The trade off in power is probably not even noticeable.

[brentg454]

Quote: Originally Posted by lilsonoma

They're all over the net for $100-150 shipped, I've even seen them go for $70 plus shipping which is $12-15 dollars.

I don't think you can get a new one from GM for that...maybe a used one.
FYI, I'm asking what I paid, which is a great deal IMO.

[lilsonoma]

Quote: Originally Posted by Christobevii3

Eh, i'd just use it. The trade off in power is probably not even noticeable.

Exactly. As would I.

[Big96Zr2]

my LS6 cam and springs were from an 02 vette...definately a good upgrade. I picked it up locally for 150, basically new.