LS1 swappers...need some help

[MetalJunkie]

I think i found the reason most people opt to do the LS1 conversion in 2nd gens. This thing sure is tight! I was looking at my buddies 95 sonoma and it looks like it would be a looser fit with the firewall and brake booster on a 2nd gen. I did some test fitment of my motor only tonight because my Spec flywheel and clutch setup is on back order at Thunder Racing. But with the motor in the best position for exhaust clearance the drivers side rear coil is like 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch away from the brake booster, and thats with the motor offset to the passenger side about an inch and a half. I still dont have my stock manifolds to test fitment with the steering arm, and its even going to be tight if i move it over an inch or so. I dont know how close the vette engine covers are to the coil packs...but the way its looking im not going to be able to run any . BTW Peko, how in the heck did yall mount that LS1 so low in that truck to get the oil pan down that far? I had to basically set the oil pan on the frame to get mine to hang down just about 2 inches. This test fit was without any notching of the frame, which it appears it would go without any frame mod...but im going to notch it just to give about an inch safety factor. I can tell the passenger side frame horn is going to need some hellified notching to clear the manifold and probably some footwell massaging on both sides. Looks like some of my legroom is going to go poof. But i was wondering if any of you guys encountered the clearance with the brake booster? Im trying to figure out a way i could just relocate that coil to the firewall or something, it would probably be alright but im just not that happy with close calls like that. All i can do is give LS1-STen alot of credit for making LT's on his LS1 truck.....i for one think i would have gone crazy trying to figure that out. The passenger side looks easiest because you can just cut the hell out of the passenger footwell and it doesnt bother you. Isnt exactly like you can take any out of the drivers side without having the gas pedal in your lap. BTW LS1-STen, if you can...get me alot of pics of your frame and firewall after all the notching and clearancing you did. You get those headers back from being coated yet?

[LS1-STen]

Yea got the headers back last sat. -- they look great. My notch was not that bad to do, I'm using the Camaro oil pan and had to notch it also.

[MetalJunkie]

Thats about like the notch im doing just for safety clearance on the truck pan. Just not as deep but all the way through because the truck pan is going to hang down below the crossmember some. Im trying to get the motor as low as possible to help handling and transmission clearance, but when i do it screws up my exhaust clearance. I wish there was someone else on the board with a LS1 first gen. Everything looks so much tighter on my 87 than on the second gens. Anyone have any picks that has a kinda good view on the booster to coil/engine cover clearance? I really dont want to have to resort to manual brakes, but im having to move the motor over an inch to the passenger side just to keep it from contacting the bottom left side of the booster. I really dont want it to be over that far because its going to screw with my driveline angle and weight distribution. I think im going to settle for the same size primaries and collectors that you went with when i make headers for the head and cam swap.

[RedSpeck_09]

my notch looks about the same. i have both of my rear coils mounted on the firewall. the driver's side was hitting the brake booster and the pass side was really close to the ac box. i'm running the 5.3L oil pan. i didn't have to do anything with the firewall. its close though. there isn't much room for anything. i have enough room to fit my hand in the back behind the intake manifold. thats it.

[RedSpeck_09]

Quote: Originally Posted by MetalJunkie

Thats about like the notch im doing just for safety clearance on the truck pan. Just not as deep but all the way through because the truck pan is going to hang down below the crossmember some. Im trying to get the motor as low as possible to help handling and transmission clearance, but when i do it screws up my exhaust clearance. I wish there was someone else on the board with a LS1 first gen. Everything looks so much tighter on my 87 than on the second gens. Anyone have any picks that has a kinda good view on the booster to coil/engine cover clearance? I really dont want to have to resort to manual brakes, but im having to move the motor over an inch to the passenger side just to keep it from contacting the bottom left side of the booster. I really dont want it to be over that far because its going to screw with my driveline angle and weight distribution. I think im going to settle for the same size primaries and collectors that you went with when i make headers for the head and cam swap.

just relocate the rear coil on that side. that should give you room enough.

[MetalJunkie]

when you mounted the coil on the firewall did you just splice the coil harness and lengthen the wire? I didnt know if it could be done or not without knowing what kind of wire the coil's used. All i need is the drivers side rear coil relocated because i ditched the a/c box and shaved the firewall.

[LS1-STen]

BTW I have seen guys mount all of there coils on the fire wall or stack 4 on each fender well, and make up longer secondary wires. they dont have to stay on the covers. I will have to remount the two rear coils for my set-up -- booster and AC/heater box. You can still use the vett covers they just have to be trimed to fit.

[RedSpeck_09]

this is the only pic i have right now that shows the brake booster and the coils. you can see the edge of the brake booster behind the hose on the right corner of the picture. ignore the red lines. they were for something else a while back.

[RedSpeck_09]

Quote: Originally Posted by MetalJunkie

when you mounted the coil on the firewall did you just splice the coil harness and lengthen the wire? I didnt know if it could be done or not without knowing what kind of wire the coil's used. All i need is the drivers side rear coil relocated because i ditched the a/c box and shaved the firewall.

i just lengthened the wires in the harness going to the coil packs. its just regular wire. and where i mounted it, the coil wire going to the plug still fits.

[MetalJunkie]

Honestly, it looks as if your is closer than mine With the coil taken off the valve cover i had like almost 2" of clearance, basically it was just barely hitting it.

[RedSpeck_09]

mine was just barely hitting it. i had to take it out to get the engine in there. i decided it was a little too close for comfort though. i didn't want the engine to torque and the coil hit the booster.

[MetalJunkie]

Basically the same thing i was concerned with, especially when i go to the strip with slicks. Im having Jared make my harness too.......my bet is its going to be badass. He's routing the computer,relay's, and fuses to exit at the rear of the intake and go directly into the cab. Its going to be CLEAN! But i fell a little better knowing i can relocate the rear coil....now the only problem is that its going to screw up the mile and a half clearance i had with the steering arm when the motor was over an inch and a half. Cant have everything i suppose. I need to make headers...but damn i dont want to, lol. I think the 98 manifolds i have now would only choke it if i tried to keep them with a head and cam package. Some upclose, large pics of sombodies long tubes would be helpful I just need the basic plan of how i need to route the tubes, the other pics you had with them on the motor are a little too small and blurry to see where all the tubes go.

[RedSpeck_09]

i actually modified my steering arm to fit. i cut it and narrowed it. i don't have any pics of it though. i want to get a new one and make it cleaner looking.

[MetalJunkie]

Im probably going with the ford steering arm idea in the JTR book for a little extra clearance on the bell joint. I dont know what the maximum you can move the column over but im going to find out just how far it can go I think my main enemy is going to be the frame and the upped half of the crossmemeber.

[RedSpeck_09]

you'll figure it out when you get to it. this swap is a lot of work but its not that hard. it just takes time.

[MetalJunkie]

Ya i know thats a fact....i been waiting on the dealer for the past two weeks just to get my damn parts right. Now im having a prob with the vette power steering pump and resevoir...when i picked up my correct bracket the other day, the ass clown cleared the ticket and it was taken off order. And my Spec II clutch and billet flywheel is on backorder for a week so i half to wait on it till i can mount the motor in place. Its like some higher force is poking me with a damn stick waiting for me to snap : But the install is being relatively easy except for the little coil incident and all this damn parts waiting. BTW i found out today that they had given me the wrong alternator as well....and now that has to be ordered

[PEKO]

For the coil clearance. 98 and 97 LS1's coils mount right to the valve cover. On 99 and newer they mount to a bracket and then to the cover so the sit higher. Tom had no problem with clearance with the coils on the green 96. The motor was out of a 98 F-body. And metal as for the pan sitting low Tom sued the Lees frame mounts and the stock F-body engine mounts. Thats all

[v8power]

Quote: Originally Posted by PEKO

For the coil clearance. 98 and 97 LS1's coils mount right to the valve cover. On 99 and newer they mount to a bracket and then to the cover so the sit higher. Tom had no problem with clearance with the coils on the green 96. The motor was out of a 98 F-body.

but you will also have to use 98 ls1 heads. they have a perimeter bolt pattern for the valve covers.

[v8power]

A first gen ls1 swap is alot easier then a second gen swap . Im working on my second one now . I finished the making bolt-on motor mounts today. you will have no problem with clearence .The motor is offset 1 inch . The factory manifolds will clear along with the steering shaft . you can remove the starter with no problems as well as the a/c ( as long as you drill the 2 holes in the frame) . On my blazer, I even put the alternator in back in the factory position . the only problem I had was adding about 300 ft of wire to get the pcm mounted in the glove box (60 wires x 5ft each)

[PEKO]

Yes thats true.... Valve cover bolt pattern is different

[MetalJunkie]

Im probably going to get on relocating the coil monday. I think im just going to cut that part of the bracket off too and use the factory coil bracket to mount it to the firewall. LS1-STen, those pics where VERY helpful i really appreciate it. Thanks once again guys

[RedSpeck_09]

good luck man. keep us updated.

[LS1-STen]

Metal --- You received the picks? --- My sys said the e-mail did not go through. How many did you receive? I have more.

[MetalJunkie]

i recieved 6 pics, but there were 2 other duplicate e-mails....but yes i recieved them and all i have to say is you do some damn good header work man. I take it you TIG'd those together I done the ones for my Super Pro car with my MIG and i cant say the joints look exactly that clean....im hoping to get a TIG machine within the next couple of months so im going to try and hold out on doing my head and cam package until i get the machine to do the headers. Those headers are the sh*t

[LS1-STen]

Thanks --- Next set I'm going to gas weld them, should have more control of the puddle. Glad you received the picks -- Don't know why my sys said that they weren't going through. Oh well just some more of those un published features. Keep us up to date on your truck.

[MetalJunkie]

Got the motor where i want it tonight.....i did a good amount of stuff but it fits!!!! And it actually fits well. I moved the column WAY the hell over to the drivers side, probably about 2 inches total. And with the fact im not running any type of heater or a/c box i was able to get the motor pretty much up against the firewall, leaving about 9/16" on the passenger side and about 1/4" on the drivers side between the heads and the firewall. I cut the flanges off the steel 98 manifolds i had and im going to weld on some 2 1/2 fabbed down pipes to the manifolds and use the old crush flanges from the end of the cat. assembly. Not the best flowing setup, but it works and it clears VERY well. Seeing how i set the motor back so far i had to take a small amount out of the passenger footwell beside the trans. tunnel, and i also took a small portion out of the firewall under the gas pedal assembly where it kinda notched out and it was interfering with the bellhousing. I also had to cut about an inch out of the top of the trans tunned where it meets the fire wall, but other than that it was pretty snug but fits. Im only going to have to cut about an inch out of the crossmember to be on the safe side because its 1/4" from hitting right now. It's fitting extremely well and it sits low and center in the engine compartment. BTW i was able to get the engine back far enough to allow ample clearance to keep the rear coil on the valve cover. Today was probably the best assembly day ive had so far, everything is really coming together. If progress continues like this, i'll be able to fire it up as soon as Jared's harness gets here. LS1-STen, i see how those headers fit now . Im making ample room on the passenger side footwell and clearancing the frame a little for when i go to weld up headers, so that it should be realativly easy. Put it this way, ive got the motor probably 1/2" off center to the passenger side and it even clears the bell joint on the stock steering shaft by about an inch. Im still going to go with the Ford shaft just for the fact that the heat from the manifolds would probably put alot of wear on the s-10 bell joint. I was planning on using the stock f-body mounts cut down, but i think im going to go with some 1/4" steel and make a plate to set on the frame and then make my own mounts. I could reverse the f-body mounts to line up with the crossmember after locating the engine that far rearward, but i believe that 1/4" steel would be alot stronger than the cast stock mounts. Im still waiting on my other parts to get in, but so far clearancing has gone good without having the tranny attached to the bellhousing. Anybody know what degree of tilt the LS1 has in the f-body cars? Right now ive got it tilted at about 3 degrees, im thinking 5 would probably be alot better but im wondering if i can get away with 3...or would it pose a problem with oil return? Oh yeah, i believe im going to get a TIG machine tomorrow...i think im going to go with a Squarewave Lincoln 175...he can get me a better deal on price because he has it in stock for $1375....i was wanting the Miller Synchrowave 180 SD but its on next day order and its going to run me $1490.

[RedSpeck_09]

i believe that lee at lee's high tech trucks told me one time that the engine is supposed to be at an 8 degree tilt. somebody check me on this.

[v8power]

Quote: Originally Posted by RedSpeck_09

i believe that lee at lee's high tech trucks told me one time that the engine is supposed to be at an 8 degree tilt. somebody check me on this.

why would it need to be at any degree? At 8 degrees the front of the motor wouldnt get oil properly. Lee also said alot of things !

[RedSpeck_09]

don't ask me. i set the engine in there. made sure everything cleared. made sure everything lined up well. marked for my tranny crossmember, and bolted everything up. thing hauls ass. love the looks i get.

[v8power]

Quote: Originally Posted by RedSpeck_09

don't ask me. i set the engine in there. made sure everything cleared. made sure everything lined up well. marked for my tranny crossmember, and bolted everything up. thing hauls ass. love the looks i get.

got some pics ?I have mine bolted in .I still have to cut the manifolds and bolt the c5 stuff on . once thats done , then its off to the exhaust shop ! Ill take a pic of it wtih the body off !

[MetalJunkie]

thinking about going and taking pics of mine right now Got my front wheel adapters in and the 17x9 SS 10 spokes look bitchin on the front with the 275's all the way around. Ive got the front clip off and the chain for the hoist is still attached to the motor...but it still looks great in between the frame rails. Im gonna grab somethin to eat and take some pics

[RedSpeck_09]

i'll get some pics up pretty soon. i've gotta get it running better. i'm only getting about 15 mpg. i think my o2 sensors are screwed. plus my intake filter is to small right now. i have a 9" k&n but i have to figure out how to route it. i have a 90 coming from the throttle body and going towards the battery tray area. but i can't route the tubing over there right now because of the steam release fitting that goes from the radiator to the throttle body, and the coolant overflow tubing. its also really close to the tensioner. once i figure out how to route the pipe i'll be ok. i have a friend with an autotap program on his laptop. i'll log some runs and see how everything is going.

[MetalJunkie]

okay, i guess the server is having some problems or something because it wont let me load my pics. I couldn't even log back onto the forum last night, but ill try and get them up as soon as the server quits acting up.

[RedSpeck_09]

dude...wtf. you've got to paint the truck. we can't have 2 ls1 trucks the same color . just kidding man. lookin good. its comin together. are you running a corvette crank pully?

[MetalJunkie]

Thanks man, i have the vette pulley at the shop but i havent changed them out yet....he f-body pulley is in the photo. Gotta love that smurf blue eh? Im painting it black...and im seriously thinking about getting that guy that does the airbrushed "fire" to come off the front fenderwells like Jesse James' Silverado. Its a possibilty but its probably going to stay on the wish list for a while. Anybody else keep on seeing "Sever is too busy, try again Later"? Ive had to refresh like 10 times everytime i try to do something. I could only get one pic up right now, keeps on saying its busy. Ive got some other upclose pics of all my clearaning and the firewall mods i did. Today was suspension and steering day....got the ZQ8 steering box in and put in a new MOOG idler arm, balljoints are going to be in first thing in the morning. Thank god my clutch shipped out of Thunder Racing today, so when i get back from racing in Montgomery this weekend the motor and tranny can finally get mounted!!!!! Wish i coulda got some more pics up...but i guess it will do. BTW, check out my extreme toe out , the moog tie rods had a different thread count and its WAY off LOL

[MetalJunkie]

heres the rest

[LS1-STen]

Looken GOOOD --- I'll have to get some pics of mine up here. How much HP do you think you are going to need to run a 10 second 1/4? What are you gonig to do about traction? Yea the server has been f'n up for me to.

[PEKO]

Hey metal... What are you doing for the fuel system? meaning pump, regulator, lines etc?

[MetalJunkie]

Sorry for the late reply guys, i was in Montgomery all weekend racing in the B&M series. Im hoping that about 440-450 rwhp will get me in the mid 10's with a 2600 lbs race weight. Traction hopefull will be taken care of with caltracs and 10.50 M/T ET streets with adjustable coil overs up front, but if it still wont hook im planning a triangulated 4 link in the future with coilovers in the rear as well. Im taking care of the fuel system with a 15 gallon aluminum fuel cell i already have and a Aeromotive A1000 fuel pump with -10 from the tank to the pump and -8 from the pump to the A1000 F/I regulator. This should give me alot of room to grow if i ever decide to put on a super charger or turbo after the head and cam package. Right now im focused on the 10's because i think its a relatively easy spot to hit with a LS1 and still be very streetable. My biggest problem facing me will be traction but im trying to sort through all that. I had the Moser 12 bolt made 2 inches wider on each side than the stock s-10 rear end so that i could use the 17x9 SS 10 spokes without adapters on the rear. The only problem i never thought about was the fact that you cant get any kind of 15" wheel with the proper backspacing to fit a sizeable slick on without it sticking out the fenderwell. So basically with the rear 2 inches wider on each side there is no way i can tub it out because im already pretty much maxed out with the 7" of backspacing the SS rims have. I really wish i would have went with another rim instead of the camaro wheels, yes the look good...but it really messes you up in a situation like this. Im going to use some 15x8 welds with 5 1/2" b.s. which is the closest thing i can get to the offset of the camaro wheel and hope and pray that the 10.50 e/t's will hook it up. If it doesnt, well i guess i'll just have to cut the 12 bolt down and break out the welder and do a little tub work Im hoping theres a good chance with all the weight i have taken off the nose and seeing how im mounting the fuel cell behind the axle and mounting the battery in the rear....because to tell you the truth tubbing the truck is something i really dont want to do unless its a slight minitub and run some 335/30/18/'s, im a real big fan of handling and road racing not just going in a straight line. But I'll keep you guys updated.....oh ya, the SPEC flywheel and clutch looks smokin'

[hellbents10]

IS that a truck pan on yours. any mods to the crossmemeber? I have a 6.0 and my truck is lowered about 6" up front but yours looks like it doesn't hang down to far. I could make a nice skip plate for some insureance. BTW I am doing a 6.0 swap right now. i am remote mounting my coils. My biggest delema is headers right now. have to have some made for the ol hot rod.

[MetalJunkie]

Yes that is a truck pan on my motor. The way i have my engine setting, the only frame clearancing i need is to add just a little bit of addtional clearance. But it does drop right in without touching anything. However, i doubt you will be able to set the motor as far back as i did without doing away with the stock a/c box on the firewall, or notching it. I also have the motor sitting about 1 1/2 inches from the crossmember to the oilpan so its a little higher than what most people do, but it only allows roughly an inch of oil pan to hang below the crossmember. I wanted to do this just incase i encounter some wheel stands later on down the horse power road, and we all know theres nothing worse than a busted pan...especially on the track. Im really surprised as to how well the motor fits in the engine bay, i took out the 2x4 i had proping the front of the engine up off the crossmember and it stayed exactly where it was and it wont budge. Im guess this is the engines way of telling me this is where she wants to be. My fitment method required a little more firewall work than what most other people do, so you can still do this without hardly any firewall mod and a little more frame clearancing. Break out the welder and enjoy

BTW, ive taken a short break from the engine and tranny fitment and started working on the front suspension. Still have to finish the balljoints and get everything back together. Right now im sanding and prepping the frame for the black b/c to match the body color. Nothing like a nice smooth shiny frame.....details details details

[hellbents10]

Very nice its coming right along. I hope to start on mine in a week or two. I just need to find someone to tig some headers for me i can do all the bends and fittiment but I need someone that can tig like a madman. I will post pics of mine as soon as progress starts.

[MetalJunkie]

Keep us updated and good luck :thumbup:

[PEKO]

Hopefully ill be starting my swap soon. Id like a LS1 but im looking for a 5.3 or 6.0... Then just go nuts, but i need to get a new car or truck for an everyday driver then well see..

[hellbents10]

I have a good line on motors if you need one. right now there is a 22k 5.3 with comp. harness and all acces for 1600.

[MetalJunkie]

Go 6.0 Peko....get er o-ringed and pull about 17 lbs on it. Would make on hell of a beast!

I think i hit a lazy streak or something, i havent really done anything to the truck. Kinda funny how ya work like mad and then ya get burned out for a week or two. Hopefully i can get my workin pants back on and get the steam rolling again. Jared is sending my harness Friday, maybe that will jump my enthusiasm back where it needs to be.

BTW, just a little off topic....but you guys wouldnt be interested in a 79 Z28 making around 540 to the rear wheels would ya? Im gonna sell my baby. I feel kinda bad cause it never does anything but sit in the garage with the cover on and im just well....tired of her. Wanting to free up a spot in the garage for a new Yamaha R6

[onyxxtreme]

yes, definitely go 6.0! comes with a 4" bore, just add a 4" crank, and maybe even open up the bores some more, and you got yourself a serious motor

btw metaljunkie, whats the specs on your motor?
you got one hellova sweet project

[RedSpeck_09]

Quote: Originally Posted by MetalJunkie

Im probably going with the ford steering arm idea in the JTR book for a little extra clearance on the bell joint. I dont know what the maximum you can move the column over but im going to find out just how far it can go I think my main enemy is going to be the frame and the upped half of the crossmemeber.

i dont have the JTR book. can someone explain what their idea is?

[MetalJunkie]

Quote: Originally Posted by RedSpeck_09

i dont have the JTR book. can someone explain what their idea is?

Straight from the JTR manual, hope this helps Redspeck.

"The 1987-1991 Ford F150 intermediate shaft which connects the steering column to the steering box uses a smaller u-joint that the s-10 unit, which improves clearance by about 5/16". The Ford shaft is longer than the S-10 shaft, and requires about 1 1/2" trimmed off to fit onto the S-10. The steering shaft can be purchased new from the Ford dealer for about $150, or it can be found at wrecking yards for $25-$60."

As for the specs on my motor, im using MTI Stage 2R heads with titanium retainers, TR-224 cam, Accufab TB and a LS6 intake, and homemade LT's stolen from someone elses design , im also going to let this guy my friend knows thats real good with LS1 edit dyno-tune my car at Atlanta Chassis Dyno....they got a wide-band O2. Thinking about using the Aeromotive fuel rails so i can have a Pressure gauge on the rail but i doubt they would fit without really hacking the vette covers and it would probably look like ass. I dunno if im going to use vette covers though, i think im just going to get straight down to business with this truck. After all with a few misc. things painted, the LS1 dont look all that bad without the covers. It wouldn't take so much time if ya didnt have to custom make just about everything for this swap. I should be getting my harness sometime this week so i think im going to get back to the grindstone and have this thing fired up by the end of this month.

[onyxxtreme]

sounds sweet, if i had the money, i'de definitely go with their heads over anyone elses...but i dont, thats why i got elcheapo Patriot 5.3's lol
as for the FRC's, I say ditch em. These motors look really good with just a set of valvecovers (relocated coils). I went cheap on those too, and just had my factory covers shaved and powdercoated