LS1 brake questions...Front end spindles...

[jchargu3]

I want to drop my truck 2/3 using 2" belltech spindles...

At the same time i want to be doing the LS1 big brake conversion on the truck..... Can i use the spindles for the s10 on the big brake conversion or do i need to get them from another vehicle?

If needed from another vehicle, What do i get?

THANKS,.

[ZR1 S10]

My question is what is this LS1 big brake conversion you speak of?

[jchargu3]

LS1 big brake conversion is as follows...

Bigger rotors, better calipers, more apply area for braking... which in turn gets you faster braking and quicker stops. With todays idiots on the road its a must.

[poconojoe]

He want to know if you're doing the front or rear. That would determine, which spindles to use

[jchargu3]

no i think I was right

I am doing the FROTN END of my s10 with LS1/LT1 Brakes, and need to know wether i can use s10 drop spindles or if i need LS1/Lt1 spindles.

[rick]

The deal is really involved. You need to make caliper brackets,cut the ears off your spindles ,and make a hub to mount the brake rotor on,and alot of other not so nice things. I would advise you to get yourself some brakes and lowering spindles from a newer model blazer. They have dual piston calipers and really stop better. You could also do the B-body spindle conversion,and mount the LS1 brakes to these.This spindle set-up will also improve on the geometry of your steering system ,making your truck handle a little better,but lowering will have to be done with a spring or maybe some drop style lower a-arms. You will also need special tubular upper arms made for the G-body car(Fit s-10,s as well)to do the b-body spindle upgrade. You will come out cheaper gettin the new Blazer set-up,or just drop some cash for the new stainless steel brake,force 10 caliper and some performance pads.They work real good.I have been working on the caliper adpt,s to put the LS1 brakes on our s-10 lowering spindles for almost a year now,and have ran into many brick walls on the way.In order for me to market them ,I have to make sure that they are SAFE.,and I still haven,t come up with a bracket that I would run and feel comfortable about.

[DNGRS DME]

If you got the cash get the SSBC drop spindle / brake upgrade kit.
http://www.stainlesssteelbrakes.com/...D%29&year=1988

2 Piston

or 4Piston
http://www.stainlesssteelbrakes.com/...D%29&year=1988

[ZR1 S10]

After I emailed back and forth with SSBC I relized they are deffinatly not the brakes for me! They told me their pads were Z-rated???? So I'm going with baer now! I'm getting this kit in the picture for 1,071 +shipping on a group purchase @ stylinconcepts:



This kit has: Dual piston Calipers, 13" Rotors, and comes with modified 2" drop spindles!

Thats a D&mn good price for a kit with 13" rotors! Oh min wheel size is 17's. Also Baer has a 3 pads:

Pro Touring- Heavy street/Light track
Pro Track- Medium Track Events
Pro Race- Heavy Track Events

[poconojoe]

Are you infering, you don't know what Z rated is? It means they been tested for use above 130 MPH.

[jchargu3]

i dont want to spend 1000+ dollars on a brake conversion! Whenever I can get the same effect for 400 dollars and be just as good if not better!

It would take me half a year to be able to do that! besides I have an engine and tranny in WORSE shape than the brakes

All i wanted to know is if Camaro brakes used on the LT1/'LS1 will work on my S10 with the S10 drop spindles, or do i need to order the spindles for a camaro...

People have done the camaro brake 12" rotor conversions before and worked GREAT thats what i want to do, nothing baer, nothing wilwood just standard LS1/LT1 option brakes... The rear is getting done in LT1 brakes, i want the front to match.

[poconojoe]

The camaro rotors and calipers, will not fit on the s10 spindles, together. The caliper will be located too close to the rotor. You'd have to either design a bracket to relocate the caliper further out or use camaro spindles, but I think you have to rebore them, so the taper matches the S10 ball joints. a long time ago somebody sold tubular control arms to do the swap. The where S10 type arms, with camaro ball joints in them, but they were pricey ( around $500). Personallly, I just used the Blazer twin piston calibers. They have a larger sweep area and bolt right on. The only draw back is drop spindles for them cost over $200.

[SummerWolf]

talk to samdogmx, the LS1 fronts are not a simple swap and I'd love to see the brake saddles you're buying.....cause thats the reason basically only samdogmx has this swap and a few others. You're going to need blazer drop spindles.

Have fun.

[jchargu3]

Thank you summerwolf... and all others for input.

[ZZ4Blazer]

You can't use camaro spindles. They have struts up front.

You cannot use your stock s10 spindles (or drop spindles) with the 12" LS1 front brakes, (98+ Fbodies). At least without cutting the ears off, making some type of hub for the rotor to sit on, then machinging your own caliper bracket and mounting saddle.

The 98+ blazers use a sealed hub assembly, and a "hat" style rotor like the newer camaros do. Using them will solve the problem of needing to machine a hub. You will still need to custom machine your own bracket to properly locate, and center the caliper on the spindle.

These are not easy mods. I would not recommend trying this unless your a skilled machinist. And, if your going through the hassle, I"d just use the rotors and caliper from a vette. Just as much work, but the rotors are about 1" bigger.



The only other 12" brakes that came on a camaro (that I know of) were on the 88-92 1LE Camaros. These won't bolt up to your truck either, again, they use struts up front.

You could go with the tall spindle conversion, which uses the 11 or 12" brake set up using spindles from other fullsize GM cars, usually B-bodies. This will effect handling also, by creating a better negative camber curve. You will need to run special, shorter, tubular upper control arms with this to get correct alignment and for the handling.

Most late model Impallas have the 12" brake set up, which will bolt onto the truck. But, like I said, you will need the upper designed for this. But... again. Another problem. They have the 5x5 bolt pattern, which is bigger than the stock s10.

Using the rotors for the 88-92 1LE camaros will work with them. They are identical to the ones on the impallas, but have the s-10 bolt pattern.

I did that swap this winter. This does add bumpsteer to the front end though from the different tie rod angle of the b-body spindles. I have little suspension travel, so its hardly noticeable in my truck.

Handling was dramatic vs. my 98+ blazer brakes. (I used to have the dual piston blazer set up on my truck before this) I think the blazer drop spindles were throwing something off. I think that my truck handled better with my stock brakes/drop spindles than it did with the 98+ spindles and brakes.

I have Belltech drop spindles for an Impala, SSBC Aluminum dual piston calipers for a newer caprice, Hotchkiss tubular UCA's for the G bodies, and the 12" 1LE camaro rotors(powerslot). I think my truck stops pretty well. I still have my rear discs to go on too. I wanted to do this swap for the better handling aspects, but I figured I'd upgrade my brakes while I was at it. These do stop better than my 98+ blazer brakes.

[ZR1 S10]

Quote: Originally Posted by poconojoe

Are you infering, you don't know what Z rated is? It means they been tested for use above 130 MPH.

Thats for tires! When you rate brake pads you usualy go by what temp they are fade resistant too. Your brake pads arent going to break if you got a certain speed.

[jchargu3]

Sooooo in other words, i'd have better luck getting the baer system..... pooo.... That means i need to get new wheels..... and tires..... there goes 1500 bucks....

Thanks.

[jchargu3]

Holy Hell That 1200 Bucks Its Just The Front!!!! F*** That!

[ZR1 S10]

You can get the SSBC Alum 2 piston caliper upgrade for around 400. But you get Z-rated brake pads? IMO SSBC stuff is perfect for street use and mabye light track events.

[poconojoe]

Quote: Originally Posted by jchargu3

Sooooo in other words, i'd have better luck getting the baer system..... pooo.... That means i need to get new wheels..... and tires..... there goes 1500 bucks....

Thanks.

You'd be better of getting the blazer set up, Dual pistons, larger rotor. Thats what you want isn't it?

[poconojoe]

Quote: Originally Posted by 96s10

Thats for tires! When you rate brake pads you usualy go by what temp they are fade resistant too. Your brake pads arent going to break if you got a certain speed.

No they're going to over heat and fade. Companies that sell Z-rated brake pads are claiming, they're good to 130+. I realize, it's a miss use of the term, but they're useing, not me. By the way, to do the conversion with the F-body 1LE 12" rotors, they use rebored B-body spindles and calipers

[samdogmx]

ok as far as i know im the only one running the ls1 camaro setup...... heres wut i used, camaro rotors, camaro calipers, camaro pads, 98+ Blazer drop spindles, 98+ blazer hubs, now for the tricky part to get the calipers to bolt to the spindles i machined my own saddles(brackets) that i designed. with out these saddles there is no way you can do this conversion, u cannot use the camaro spindles they are totally differnt, ur next best bet without shelling out over a grand for baers is to do the blazer conversion, it is a very similar caliper design to the camaro & the rotor is only 1" smaller than the camaro

[ZZ4Blazer]

What are rebored spindles and calipers?????

[jchargu3]

THanks samdog....... Blazer brakes it is then.

[poconojoe]

Quote: Originally Posted by ZZ4Blazer

What are rebored spindles and calipers?????

They rebore the ball joint taper in the spindle, to match the taper on the S10 ball joints, or what ever they're putting them on.. They use to do a lot to put the 12" F-body brakes on the 2nd gen monte carlos too. No mater what, I think the blazer brakes are the way to go. It's easier and uses all stock componets. If you want a little more stopping power from them, buy better pads.

[ZZ4Blazer]

They use the same ball joints. My stock s-10 uppers use the same size ball joints as the ones on my Hotchkiss uppers, and the same size that the stock b-bodies are. The G bodies use the same sized joints as the S-10's do. Reaming the spindle is unnecessary, stock will fit stock.


The reason they bore the spindle is because some of the tubular UCA's use the same size ball joint as the lowers. Ever notice how your stock lower ball joint is bigger than the upper? Thats just supposed to increase the strenght of the upper ball joint by using larger ones.

[poconojoe]

Yes I agree, the G-bodies use the same size taper in their ball joints as the S10's, but to fit, the 12" F-body rotors on the G-body or the S10's, they use B-body spindles and calipers. From what I understand, the taper on the B-body spindle is different, and it has to be rebored to match, the S10 taper. I've never tried it, but have talked to people, that had it done on both Mid eighties MC's and S10's. Personally I still feel, the blazer brake conversion is the best deal for your money. I did it on my 96 and plan to do it on my 98. The differance is night and day. No more sticky calipers and smoking pads. Plus your antilock brake still function, which doesn't happen with F-body or the baer set ups.

[gbodybilly]

Just my 2 cents here. The LS1 front disc brake conversion is possible. The front end suspension on the late model 2WD S10 is extremely similar to the front end suspension of the 4th generation g-body, if not identical. I own an 03 S10 and an 86 MCSS. The b-body conversion mentioned, known also as the 1LE conversion requires aftermarket UCAs, available from Hotchkis, Global West as well as UB Machine. UB Machine being substantially cheaper of the 3. A fellow by the name of Rob Adams sells a complete kit for the 1LE conversion, BTW. Depending on the upper ball joint used, you will need the top portion of the spindle reamed. The 1LE setup will also provide you with a drop as well. Total cost of the 1LE will most likely run you in excess of 500, depending on where you attain the UCAs. You do get the bumpsteer effect as mention with this setup. A fellow by the name of Jeff Davidson did a mod to the centerlink to correct this. Though, I don't think he does them anymore but can probably provide you with any information you need. I'm doing the LS1 conversion on my 86. This mod does not require aftermarket UCAs since the stock spindle is used. What will need to be done is to have the ears cut off of the spindles and to have a stock set of rotors handy (but you will be replacing them anyways). Those rotors need to be taken to a lathe that can handle at least 12" and to have the rotor portion cut of so the remaining hub can fit into the LS1 rotor (have the LS1 rotor handy). Also a set of brakets fabbed up from about 3/8" stock of mild steel. So when it's complete, the rotor stays on the spindle with the inner and outer bearings pretty much sealed and the LS1 rotor can be removed without the need to replace these parts. Also, you're going to have to attain the dual piston calipers that came off the f-bodies, from 98+. You can pick them up from any f-body vender (check out the f-body boards, they advertise there). In the end, it comes out alot cheaper than the 1LE setup but requires more work and fabrication. In either case of the 1LE and LS1, you may want to consider replacing the master cylinder due to the increased required pressure. And, also, if youdecide to hunt for a b-body spindle, watch out for the different size brakes. B-bodies came woth 11" and 12" versions. I'm not familiar with the blazer brake conversion so I really can't say much about that. HTHs.