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Old 10-23-2008, 06:47 PM   #1
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cams what you can run and can't

Whats the biggest cam you can run on the street and still be streetable as far as a/c adn idleing and what not and not having a huge huge stall. Also when ya'll build ya'lls motors what pistons do ya'll run i dn't wanna have to go above super pump gas. When ya'll change the cam do ya'll use stock lifters again or change them also and what about the timing chain adn oil pump. What some good setups for a good driver that makes good street power that can handle some spray at the track but still wantt he comfort of a/c and being able to drive it alot and idle for days if it needs to. Please help everyone seems to be afraid to talk about this. Aw yeah it a 00 s10 and i'm putting a 05 5.3 in it i have a ls1 intake but from what i read i'm better off staying with the truck intake is this true??? Just looking for bang for the buck. Whats seom other this besides the cam that i can do to make hp. i dn't wanna change the heads out just yet so i'm building around them. Guna put springs and pushrods and a good cam and tune and got headers of course nice stall and what not.
Old 10-23-2008, 07:34 PM   #2
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

Your question shouldnt be "what is the biggest" but rather "what is the best"

Biggest will give you a lot less low end and make the truck feels sluggish along with everything else that cams that are too big bring. The truck will be much faster, and get much better economy, with a cam much smaller than you can physically fit and run in the engine.

Last edited by SweetS10V8; 10-23-2008 at 07:36 PM.
Old 10-23-2008, 07:38 PM   #3
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

Sounds like somebody's got some research and reading to do.

We could sit and spoon feed you opinions all day long but that's all they're going to be, opinions. What's "best" for me surely wont be what's "best" for you, or what's "best" for SweetS10V8 or anyone else for that matter. Best is a subjective term blended with some bit of factual information and bust mostly based off of feeling.

My suggestion, figure out what it is you want from this motor, what your goals and plans are, what your budget is and if you can go ride in a few modified LSx vehicles and tell us what you dislike or like about them.

EDIT: Remember, engines are systems. Change one variable and you'll affect the others. Research and read into how cams change the internal workings of the motor and how cam "A" will compare to cam "B" in your motor.

Last edited by lilsonoma; 10-23-2008 at 07:40 PM.
Old 10-23-2008, 07:42 PM   #4
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

okay so i want to make the most power out of a 05 5.3 without pulling the heads and or pistons i just want to do a cam and valvetrian swap and boltons a good tune and go. Will add a 150 shot b4 its over. now can ya'll give me some suggestions.
Old 10-23-2008, 07:57 PM   #5
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

Comp Cams XR265 high lift. LS6 yellow springs. Should make brute torque a little above 1000 and pull hard to a +/-6200 red line. In my opinion, it's about as wild as you'll want to go with the desires you're after. You'll probably end up with over 20mpg too after a good tune.

It's a 212/218, .558/.563 on a 115 lobe sep angle ground on XER lobes, so it's pretty aggressive for a cam so timid. In a 325ci motor with stock compression you don't want to be running much higher than a 218 anyways otherwise you'll bleed off too much compression and the bottom end will feel very soggy. You can safely get away with 10.5:1 compression in these motors, so I would reconsider taking the heads off and having them milled down a bit so you end up with 52-54cc chambers. All my daily builds are 10.3-10.6:1 compression running off of 87 octane, which I attribute mostly to tuning. In an all-out race vehicle it's nothing less than 11.0:1 on 92 octane.

Like I said before, this is what I think is "best", if it were my truck. You make your own decision on what you think is best for you.
Old 10-23-2008, 11:10 PM   #6
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

Dont be so politcally correct. Anyone who knows anything will most likely all be in the same realitive ballpark on a decent cam.

Youll have differing people with differing opinions, which would give a pallpark to choose from. I personally error to the side of smaller when I have decent choices, because I have suffered from a cam that was too big before.

I too also have personally made litteraly 1000s upon 1000s of pulls on the LS engines on the dyno using upwards of 60 different camshafts. I dont want to "tell" anyone what to do, I want them to get in the right mind set so they can ask the correct questions.

Lilsonomas cam would work great, as would almost anything in the 215-220 range. Just get a set of aftermarket pushrods and a set of beehive springs, like the 918s.

Last edited by SweetS10V8; 10-23-2008 at 11:14 PM.
Old 10-24-2008, 12:05 AM   #7
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

Political correctness is nothing more than a silly notion that it's entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. I am hardly being politically correct in my attempt to explain how the decision to pick a cam can only come from within. His sense of what a daily driver is will most certainly be different than someone else's, as will all of ours.

Though, I do agree with you on the ballpark idea. Those in the 'know' will have a darn good idea of what's streetable and what's not based on
familiarity, like you said, which comes from "1000s upon 1000s", aka - experience. Good to see I am not the only one who yields on the small side of cam selection.




Old 10-24-2008, 01:17 AM   #8
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

i'm just throwing this out here becasue i ran acroos a really good well i think good deal. its a patriot 225/229 .581 .591 114 lsa with patriot gold spring kit titanium retainers and hardened 7.400 pushrods. for 595.00 shipped to the door. All new stuff would this be a good setup?? I lookd at the comp 918s and they go for 260 a set is cheapest i could find then the pushrods are anther at least 100 then the cams run 200-300 from what i seen. Am i on the rite track???
Old 10-24-2008, 01:33 AM   #9
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

Ebay has brand new cams in the box for $380 shipped, $53 for LS6 springs from Lingenfelter's website, and hardened push rods are on classifieds all day for under $100 shipped. That's still less than the "deal" you found, which is probably better suited for an all out race LS1, streetable LS6, or wild heads/cam 6.0L in a light car. Either way I think the 5.3L lacks the displacement to make that purchase worthwhile.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Car-...1%7C240%3A1318

http://www.lingenfelter.com/store/12499224.html

Last edited by lilsonoma; 10-24-2008 at 01:34 AM.
Old 10-24-2008, 02:10 AM   #10
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1004359 well i read this and makes me clueless there sayin a 230/230 111+2 is a really good cam for tq what you think about that write up??? Am i on the rite track
Old 10-24-2008, 02:40 AM   #11
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

A 206/212 is a great cam for torque. A 212/218 is a great cam for torque. I'd even go as far as saying a 218/224 could be made into a torquey camshaft in a little 5.3L. A great tuner would be needed to make anything more aggressive than a 220+ produce the low end torque you're probably looking for, especially with stock compression. A cam such as a 230/230 would bleed off so much torque that it would probably fall on its face below 3000 and pull higher than the stock crank is able to support.

By all means, go ahead and try it. Might I suggest a 4000 stall converter, 5.13 gears, $1000 dollar valvetrain with titanium and doubled up everything. Oh ya...don't forget the forged rods and lightweight aluminum pistons and say a prayer for the crankshaft, it'll need it.
Old 10-24-2008, 03:46 AM   #12
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

I agree with Lilsonoma and SweetV8S10

Streetable, as well as " Best " is a matter of personal opinion. They have both given you some ballpark values which I support 110%.

I have had great luck for daily use as well as great power and tq with the comp cams 216/220 .525/.532 114LSA
Add comps rev kit part#54050 if you need springs and pushrods.
My old 5.3L setup did 325hp/327tq with that setup.

The choice is yours.
Old 10-24-2008, 05:38 AM   #13
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

I just read through that thread and now I understand what you're getting at. At first glance I was assuming those fellas on LS1tech were recommending the 230/230 cam for your setup, but that's what I get for spending no more than 2 seconds looking at the thread. I was in a rush earlier to answer your question but now I cannot sleep so I re-read the whole thread to come to understand of what you're talking about. Like I said, I assumed they were recommending the 230/230 cam for you, my apologies.

Consider his application first and foremost. The setup is all tuned in to launch him as hard as the vehicle will allow (a 1.4 60' ) and he is pushing the motor to make brute torque for a race setup. When you think about "brute torque" and "race setup", usually those two don't go hand in hand because a race setup will typically be aiming for high winding horsepower so that the motor is making as much power as it can when the vehicle crosses the traps at the end of the 1/4 mile. In chrs1313's application, his cam is well suited for his system of working parts in that Camaro. The cam is still pretty wild, but when you consider the high RPM at which he launches that car off the line from, the cam is actually well engineered for bringing on the torque right off the line. When compared to something like a 24x/24x cam, that 230/230 is not meant to pull like a bat outta hell once the engine finally got up to speed, chrs1313 wanted low 60' times and incredible mid range pulling power. Like I said earlier, all things need to be taken into consideration as per what you want.

As for my suggestion for the 212/218 high lift, it still holds true based on you wanting this to be a daily driver with a stock-ish converter, yet still pull hard when you want to have fun. I believe it will do what you're looking for within your setup.

Last edited by lilsonoma; 10-24-2008 at 05:41 AM.
Old 10-24-2008, 11:12 AM   #14
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

OP, where in TX are you located? The major cities have emissions concerns to also worry about.

I'd suggest starting with a "smaller" cam first. Get it tuned right and then have fun with it. You might be surprised!

Move up from there.
Old 10-24-2008, 01:17 PM   #15
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

what about a 235/244 114lsa
Old 10-24-2008, 04:24 PM   #16
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

I think someone needs to read up on valve events
Old 11-19-2008, 05:50 PM   #17
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

i think ls1tech is the most informative site on the net for lsx engines period. but u need to consider allmost all them cars are 5.7,6.0,and bigger just like mine,but a small cam in one of them motors is a 224/224 and that would be pretty big for 5.3 about in the middle of mild to wild so you need to consider the size off your motor when you look at cams to cause that same cam in a 440lsx would idle like stock.
Old 11-19-2008, 06:36 PM   #18
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

ls1tech does have alot of info but take their cam suggestions with a grain of salt, they often suggest cams that are far to big to be daily driven. Don't be afraid to stick with a smaller cam, it may put out 10 less horsepower at 6500rpm's but you'll pick up plenty of torque right off throttle, and thats has been known to cause a large, unremoveable grin on the driver's face.

If you have a little extra cash you could also pay someone to spec you a cam can't go wrong with that
Old 11-19-2008, 07:28 PM   #19
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

Quote: Originally Posted by spikely23
If you have a little extra cash you could also pay someone to spec you a cam can't go wrong with that
Or if you have no extra cash call Comp Cams or Lunati, they do it for free....
Old 11-19-2008, 07:36 PM   #20
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

I'm running one of these 2 cams they are massive but thats what I want.

Magic Stick V.4 239/242, .649"/.609" Camshaft With Your Choice of Lobe Seperation (111 LSA Standard)

TSP XS Series Camshaft:
Magic Stick V.3 237/242 .603/.609" Camshaft With Your
Old 11-19-2008, 08:40 PM   #21
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

You better have a serious valvetrain for the V4. Looks like an LSK intake and an XER exhaust lobe. LSK = will chew up and spit out parts, if not setup correctly.
Old 11-19-2008, 08:52 PM   #22
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

Quote: Originally Posted by SweetS10V8
LSK = will chew up and spit out parts, if not setup correctly.
You are not kidding! I found that out the hard way.
Old 11-19-2008, 09:04 PM   #23
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

Quote: Originally Posted by SweetS10V8
You better have a serious valvetrain for the V4. Looks like an LSK intake and an XER exhaust lobe. LSK = will chew up and spit out parts, if not setup correctly.
Have you seen my new addition to my thread on my truck build? This truck is going to be a 383 stroker now if i run the ms4 I can't use nitrous so im leaning more for the Ms3 because I still want the 100-150 shot to my disposal.

Last edited by RazorS10; 11-19-2008 at 09:08 PM.
Old 11-19-2008, 09:27 PM   #24
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

im going with the MS3, PRC 2.5(5.3 castings) heads and stock lq4 shortblock on my new set-up

I also plan to spray 150
Old 11-19-2008, 09:28 PM   #25
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

Quote: Originally Posted by RazorS10
Have you seen my new addition to my thread on my truck build? This truck is going to be a 383 stroker now if i run the ms4 I can't use nitrous so im leaning more for the Ms3 because I still want the 100-150 shot to my disposal.
What's your reasoning behind not being able to use the MS4 with nitrous?
Old 11-19-2008, 11:29 PM   #26
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

Texas Speed says its a all motor cam and they just prove it by running a 9.82 @ 134mph they don't recommend spray. They said that the ms3 is more for spray.
Old 11-19-2008, 11:32 PM   #27
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

Quote: Originally Posted by RazorS10
Texas Speed says its a all motor cam and they just prove it by running a 9.82 @ 134mph they don't recommend spray. They said that the ms3 is more for spray.
All that proves is its too big for your truck, you wont run anywhere near 9s unless you have a turbo or run lots of nitrous.

Last edited by SweetS10V8; 11-19-2008 at 11:34 PM.
Old 11-20-2008, 02:05 AM   #28
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

who hows the lift so big on that one side??? Is that a variable timing cam??
Old 11-20-2008, 02:18 AM   #29
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

Quote: Originally Posted by strokethis1
who hows the lift so big on that one side??? Is that a variable timing cam??
It's a different lobe design on the intake side than the exhaust side of the cam.
Old 11-20-2008, 02:44 AM   #30
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

How ruff is that on the valvetrian like how often will he have to rebuild his valvetrian??? I have heard anything over .600 and your rebuilding your valvetrian ever 10k. Is this true? I my self would love to run 225-230 duration and .600 or less. Do you know what the highest is b4 having to cut the pistons?? I know milling comes into play on this. But say stock heads no milling.
Old 11-20-2008, 03:28 AM   #31
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

The ramp rates are more aggressive with high lift, extreme cams. Naturally they'll all wear out the valvetrain quicker, yes. 10k mile intervals seem a tad soon, but I wouldn't doubt once a year would be a good time to at least check the valvetrain with any setup running over .600" lift and dual springs.

There's a lot more to determining what needs fly cutting than just lift. Duration, rocker ratios, push rod length and rotating assembly come into mind, amongst many other things involving the heads.

For example (pulling these numbers out of my ass) you could have a 210/212 cam with .600" lift require no fly cutting at all, whereas a 240/244 .600" lift will bend every single valve the first time you turn the motor over. Those are extremes, but you need to look at other things besides just valve lift. How much time the valve is at max lift is a good place to start reading.

Last edited by lilsonoma; 11-20-2008 at 03:31 AM.
Old 11-20-2008, 08:26 AM   #32
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

Quote: Originally Posted by strokethis1
I myself would love to run 225-230 duration and .600 or less.
Same here, I plan on running a 219/227 .607/.614 112LSA Comp LSr cam. It has very quick ramps but is only .600 lift, not .640-.650 lift like the LSK. So you get all the area under the curve, but aren't as hard on parts.

Think of it like this, the lower the duration the less time the cam has to get to full lift and back. So my cam for example has 219 degrees to get to .607 lift and back. A 240 duration cam with the same .607 lift has much more time to lift and return to the seat.

You can also look at the difference between the Advertised duration and the .050 duration to get some idea how aggressive the ramp rate is. If a cam is advertised at 280 but the at .050 duration is 220, its slower than a cam advertised at 280, but the at .050 duration is 230.

Last edited by SweetS10V8; 11-20-2008 at 08:27 AM.
Old 11-20-2008, 10:22 AM   #33
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

Quote: Originally Posted by SweetS10V8
All that proves is its too big for your truck, you wont run anywhere near 9s unless you have a turbo or run lots of nitrous.
Whos to say I cant run 9s black X truck is 4000pds running 9s my truck will only weigh 3000pds when im done thats including driver. I'm not saying Im will but we shal see when the truck hit the track.
Old 11-20-2008, 11:39 AM   #34
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

if you ever have a question about which cam to choose, ask an expert. everyone on a forum will tell you something different. you might consider talking to predator-z or patrick g over at ls1tech about cam setup. in my opinion if you looking to run spray i would look into the TR-224/227.

Last edited by jnoehl; 11-20-2008 at 11:41 AM.
Old 11-20-2008, 03:39 PM   #35
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

DO them guys charge to talk lol?? I know a few on lstech want some cash for advice.
Old 11-20-2008, 06:29 PM   #36
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

hahahaha those might be the "secret cam grinds"
otherwise i wouldnt pay anything.

the TR224 is a really nice cam. it's all over ls1tech
Old 11-20-2008, 08:40 PM   #37
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

Quote: Originally Posted by RazorS10
Whos to say I cant run 9s black X truck is 4000pds running 9s my truck will only weigh 3000pds when im done thats including driver. I'm not saying Im will but we shal see when the truck hit the track.
Quote: Originally Posted by SweetS10V8
All that proves is its too big for your truck, you wont run anywhere near 9s unless you have a turbo or run lots of nitrous.
Black X has a turbo....
Old 11-20-2008, 08:42 PM   #38
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

Quote: Originally Posted by circa
hahahaha those might be the "secret cam grinds"
otherwise i wouldnt pay anything.

the TR224 is a really nice cam. it's all over ls1tech
There are no "secret grinds" they are just taking current lobes and moving them around to make them fit the application.

You can have your own "secret" aka propietary lobes for $2500/lobe.
Old 11-21-2008, 12:40 AM   #39
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

What does boost have to do with anything hp is hp just because he is running turbo doesnt mean anything. My friend has a daily driven 9sec full size silverado its not boosted so you cant tell me i cant run 9's but thats not my goal I just wanted 10 sec passes.

Last edited by RazorS10; 11-21-2008 at 12:42 AM.
Old 11-21-2008, 01:30 AM   #40
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

Quote: Originally Posted by RazorS10
What does boost have to do with anything hp is hp just because he is running turbo doesnt mean anything. My friend has a daily driven 9sec full size silverado its not boosted so you cant tell me i cant run 9's but thats not my goal I just wanted 10 sec passes.
You really do not need a donkey dick cam to run 10's in a lightweight S10. With that proposed 383 you're building up, something like the Comp Cams XER273 (224/230, .581/.588, 114+2) would be a great cam for a 10 second S-truck. It would have a usable RPM band of 1800-6300 in the 383, which is about where all the Gen III intake manifolds fall off anyway. That cam would leave you in a very powerful rpm band crossing the traps around 125mph with a 3.73 rear end, 4L60E and 26x10.5 drag radials. If you built the 383 for good usable horsepower from idle-6500, 450rwhp N/A is well within reach. Add a 150 shot at the track and you have yourself one helluva street bruiser.
Old 11-21-2008, 07:29 AM   #41
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

Quote: Originally Posted by lilsonoma
You really do not need a donkey dick cam to run 10's in a lightweight S10. With that proposed 383 you're building up, something like the Comp Cams XER273 (224/230, .581/.588, 114+2) would be a great cam for a 10 second S-truck. It would have a usable RPM band of 1800-6300 in the 383, which is about where all the Gen III intake manifolds fall off anyway. That cam would leave you in a very powerful rpm band crossing the traps around 125mph with a 3.73 rear end, 4L60E and 26x10.5 drag radials. If you built the 383 for good usable horsepower from idle-6500, 450rwhp N/A is well within reach. Add a 150 shot at the track and you have yourself one helluva street bruiser.
Thanks man. I was planning on running the fast intake either the 92 or 90. what the peak rmp range on those?
Old 11-21-2008, 08:13 AM   #42
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

Quote: Originally Posted by RazorS10
Whos to say I cant run 9s
Quote: Originally Posted by RazorS10
I just wanted 10 sec passes.
Which one is it?

There is a HUGE difference between wanting to run 10.99999 and wanting to run "9s or 10s". Im not saying you cant, it just takes more than you have to run "9s or 10s" which is what you were suggesting earlier.

But at least your goal isnt "xxx HP" and is something tangible, with a 1/4 time. I want you to run 10s dont get me wrong.

Last edited by SweetS10V8; 11-21-2008 at 08:17 AM.
Old 11-21-2008, 12:05 PM   #43
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

Quote: Originally Posted by RazorS10
Thanks man. I was planning on running the fast intake either the 92 or 90. what the peak rmp range on those?
It wouldn't change the RPM band a whole lot, maybe extend peak hp out a few hundred rpm's, but I'm basing that off of starting with an LS6 intake. Compared to any other intake except for the L92 intake, the Fast 90/92 will be a decent improvement above 6000.

With a cast steel crank, forged rods and forged pistons, I wouldn't hesitate one bit to shift every gear at 6500 with the Fast 90/92. Your trans will take a little more time to shift after the initial "red line" and put you a few hundred rpm's higher. It's hard to say exactly where it'll shift, that depends on your transmission and how tight you built it and tuned it.
Old 11-21-2008, 01:02 PM   #44
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

Wouldn't the RPM range of the intake depend more on the runner length and tuning than the throttle bottle size? i.e. 92/90 have the same runner length therefore operate in the same range, but the 92 can flow more air thanks to the bigger throttle body? not disagreeing with anybody just thinking out loud really.
Old 11-21-2008, 03:45 PM   #45
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

Oversimplified, yes. You are correct.
Old 11-24-2008, 11:12 PM   #46
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

guys ill be honest i learned a lot about cams reading this post. i dont know to much about them just the principal way they work. I myself am going to use a cam as close to the ls6 as possible but? i really dont want to run high octane gas id like to stick with 87 if possible (my motor is is 06 lm7) any suggestions? i beleive the stock lm7 cam is 191/190 and the ls6 is 204/218 im thinking about 212/218 zcam by crane how will that react on octane please help
Old 11-24-2008, 11:16 PM   #47
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

What octane you use is 90% dependent on the tune, 8% the engine build up including the camshaft and finally 2% the grade/quality of octane you pour in. I pulled those numbers out of my ass, but that's how I see the order of importance.
Old 11-25-2008, 08:52 AM   #48
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

You dont have a super high compression engine, it runs on 87 as it is. Adding a small camshaft(~216/220) wont change that.

Black X actually ran a 216/220 (XR-269HR-14) cam in his truck when it was a 5.3L. Ive had it on the dyno and it makes large gains in torque and power over stock. Its a great all round choice for a street vehicle.

Here is the only dyno graph I could find online. Its a 5.7L though, with Comp rockers, but you see most of that accross the board gain still....

Last edited by SweetS10V8; 11-25-2008 at 08:53 AM.
Old 11-25-2008, 03:39 PM   #49
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

Well tune is pretty much bottom of the list. But the factory removal and after market cam install is first on the long list of to do items! Im here in Savannah Ga. And as far as tuning not a lot of good choices when it comes to good tuners. But i looking in to HP tuners for my tuning equipment my friend has used there program and came up with great numbers on his 02 firehawk 408 ci ls1.on 93 octane (he did his own tuning)and i think im gonna use his skills for my tune. But as far cam choices 212/218 zcam by crane is a decent 87 octane,with fair tune a reachable goal? and thanks for the info like i said i dont know shit about cams just the basic principals involved! and now what ived learned on the forum!
Old 11-25-2008, 03:47 PM   #50
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Re: cams what you can run and can't

as far as power goes for me i dont plan on drag strip time.I just really want a little pull under the hood and good ole chevy reliability with a easy schedule main.
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