Bad relay on my AVS Switchbox?

[kovz34]

Hey guys, I bought a billet 9 switch rocker from you back in june. I was at a show this weekend and out of nowhere, the Drivers Side UP power cut out.
I was aired out at the show and I tried airing up and my drivers side wasn't moving. I began tracing out the problem.
As I hit the top left switch to go UP, my valve was not clicking at all. There was however a clicking noise coming from the relay terminal box. When I hit the top left switch DOWN, my dump valve would click and work fine.

I took a paper clip and put a jumper between 12+ V to the Drivers UP terminal on the relay box and it opened my valve and filled the front bag. So I was able to determine from that that my bag was fine, and the valve was fine too.

Doug (DJD) and Dave (98laynframe) were there with me too working on the problem. We put the multimeter on the relays and hit the switches to see what kind of voltage we were getting. After a few minutes, Dave starting tapping the Top left switch several times very fast and all of a sudden it started working again!!!!!

What could the problem be that it totally quit working but after several taps on the switch it started working again?

I'll send this thread to Dave and Doug so they can chime in too. The switchbox worked fine for the rest of the weekend and I was able to drive the truck home 3.5 hours with no problems. Basically just wanted to make this thread to make you guys aware of the problem in case it happens again and I need a replacement. How long is the warranty on these good for?

Thanks for your help, in advance.

-Mike

[AVS_KRIS]

Hmm...I am going to have to send this one to Jeff....this is not a known problem to me. You do have a lifetime warranty on the box.

[kovz34]

ok, that is good to know on the warranty. And worst case scenario, at least I know I can still touch the 12+V wire to the power wire of that valve to get it to air up if it decided to stop working again on me. lol

[98layinframe]

At first i thought it was just a wiring problem.. but as soon as i bypassed the switch box with the paper clip (touched circuits 1 and 5 together) the truck jumped up just fine. Then like Mike said.. the relay box on the unit was still clicking but not powering the valve wire. I proceeded to hit the up rocker extremely fast about 25 - 30 times then all of a sudden it started working again.

Like doug said, our best guess is the relay in the control box was sticking and / or not fully making contact correctly. It was making the noise, as if the coil had power and was trying to complete the circuit but the armature would not move far enough to?

[kovz34]

Thanks for chiming in Dave.

[DJDAudio]

From my experience with Small relays such as those, the internal structure can be finicky for example the coil will energize thus pulling the plate with contact together with the coil. This can get jogged or shift off of its pivot so it will 'click' but the contact pads will not mate correctly.

This may be fault of a 'Friday' relay haha and it 'may' or 'may not' ever act up again.

It is really hard to say on those issues. Without not knowing what caused it to come 'off' track in the first place.

And I thought it was me that started flicking the switch

[AVS_JEFF]

Quote: Originally Posted by DJDAudio

From my experience with Small relays such as those, the internal structure can be finicky for example the coil will energize thus pulling the plate with contact together with the coil. This can get jogged or shift off of its pivot so it will 'click' but the contact pads will not mate correctly.

This may be fault of a 'Friday' relay haha and it 'may' or 'may not' ever act up again.

It is really hard to say on those issues. Without not knowing what caused it to come 'off' track in the first place.

And I thought it was me that started flicking the switch

Yeah, I bet it would be you Doug that flicked the switch. Always flickin switches or pushing someone's buttons, aren't you? lol! If it happens again I would check 2 things:

1. the connection of your valve wire to the box. Make sure its solid and that you don't have the wire jacket protruding into the terminal opening thus insulating it. (it has happened before)

2. Since you all said that the relay did click then we know that there is no problem in the actual hand held switch box. Remove the bottom cover of the relay box and inspect the solder connections.

If both of those are good and you can immediately activate your valve by jumping the terminals then get it back to us ASAP so we can warranty it for you. Thanks for all of the input/help guys!

[98layinframe]

Quote: Originally Posted by DJDAudio

From my experience with Small relays such as those, the internal structure can be finicky for example the coil will energize thus pulling the plate with contact together with the coil. This can get jogged or shift off of its pivot so it will 'click' but the contact pads will not mate correctly.

This may be fault of a 'Friday' relay haha and it 'may' or 'may not' ever act up again.

It is really hard to say on those issues. Without not knowing what caused it to come 'off' track in the first place.

And I thought it was me that started flicking the switch

You may of started... but it took my magic touch to get it to work! But then again, doug was the only one not drinking......

[DJDAudio]

Quote: Originally Posted by AVS_JEFF

Yeah, I bet it would be you Doug that flicked the switch. Always flickin switches or pushing someone's buttons, aren't you? lol! If it happens again I would check 2 things:

1. the connection of your valve wire to the box. Make sure its solid and that you don't have the wire jacket protruding into the terminal opening thus insulating it. (it has happened before)

2. Since you all said that the relay did click then we know that there is no problem in the actual hand held switch box. Remove the bottom cover of the relay box and inspect the solder connections.

If both of those are good and you can immediately activate your valve by jumping the terminals then get it back to us ASAP so we can warranty it for you. Thanks for all of the input/help guys!

100% good there, I had the meter on the screw itself.

If we take it apart no loss of warranty?

[DJDAudio]

While on the subject another friend of mine has his 7 rocker (no relay box) doing some odd stuff, any of the ups he hits all 4 corners will lift, and of the down will work independently.

Sound to me Diode failure. I will have to check with him and inspect the box soon and let you guys know.

It is possible he did not run a inline fuse and then shorted one of the connections to ground thus over currentling ...is that a word? the Diodes.

[kovz34]

Quote: Originally Posted by AVS_JEFF

Yeah, I bet it would be you Doug that flicked the switch. Always flickin switches or pushing someone's buttons, aren't you? lol! If it happens again I would check 2 things:

1. the connection of your valve wire to the box. Make sure its solid and that you don't have the wire jacket protruding into the terminal opening thus insulating it. (it has happened before)

2. Since you all said that the relay did click then we know that there is no problem in the actual hand held switch box. Remove the bottom cover of the relay box and inspect the solder connections.

If both of those are good and you can immediately activate your valve by jumping the terminals then get it back to us ASAP so we can warranty it for you. Thanks for all of the input/help guys!

Thanks for the input. We did check #1 like doug said. If it acts up again, I will remove the bottom cover and check that connection in the relay box.
I also double checked the wiring on the valve and everything is solid there. The ground was solid and the power wire is making a good connection with the relay box.

If it acts up again, I'll get back with you guys asap. Thanks Jeff!

[Noremac]

i have noticed on mine, if i flick the all up rocker on my billet 9, the passenger side reacts faster than the driver's side.. is this normal? like the passenger side will let about 60psi in, and the driver's side will react a fraction of a second later, and get like 40psi.. i dunno, i can live with it if that is what it is supposed to do

[DJDAudio]

Quote: Originally Posted by Noremac

i have noticed on mine, if i flick the all up rocker on my billet 9, the passenger side reacts faster than the driver's side.. is this normal? like the passenger side will let about 60psi in, and the driver's side will react a fraction of a second later, and get like 40psi.. i dunno, i can live with it if that is what it is supposed to do

Swap the wires for left and right valves and try again,

If the problem moves it is the switch box if not it is your air system

Easy to test lol

[Noremac]

Quote: Originally Posted by DJDAudio

Swap the wires for left and right valves and try again,

If the problem moves it is the switch box if not it is your air system

Easy to test lol

lol, i will handle that this coming weekend then.. thanks doug

[AVS_JEFF]

Quote: Originally Posted by DJDAudio

While on the subject another friend of mine has his 7 rocker (no relay box) doing some odd stuff, any of the ups he hits all 4 corners will lift, and of the down will work independently.

Sound to me Diode failure. I will have to check with him and inspect the box soon and let you guys know.

It is possible he did not run a inline fuse and then shorted one of the connections to ground thus over currentling ...is that a word? the Diodes.

Definitely sounds like a diode. It can be one diode in the right location that will cause many problems. I think we've literally had like 2 do this out of the thousands that we've made so I really can't say what could cause it. Currentling??? I dunno Doug... lol!

How old is the box?

[DJDAudio]

Quote: Originally Posted by AVS_JEFF

Definitely sounds like a diode. It can be one diode in the right location that will cause many problems. I think we've literally had like 2 do this out of the thousands that we've made so I really can't say what could cause it. Currentling??? I dunno Doug... lol!

How old is the box?

It is the one That I had for testing some time ago.

My Friend has it now in his truck since I have the spiked one now

My thought on those (need to test it to be sure. is the diodes are probably 0.5~1amp and if someone where to not have a fuse installed inline with the main power wire and then have a wire slip to ground and then press a button, it is very possible that as much as 50+amps can be passed momentarily this over current through the Diode can cause it to fail closed in both directions.

So the next time he goes to use the box It is very possible the Diode will now act like a wire instead of a check.


Again I will have to meet up with him and verify. I will let ya know.

Thanks Jeff!

Oh, Can you PM me the Part number for the Diodes used? I would like to look up the spec sheet and do some testing if you do not mind.
There is a slim chance back EMF might be the problem.